TThe Concept of a "People's Republic of Aztlan"

[CHAIRMAN GONZALO]

What do you guys think of the cocnept of Aztlan which is the name of the land the US stole from Mexico.

[Savior]

The U.S didnt steal anything, they won it in a war.

[Palingenisis]

What do you guys think of the cocnept of Aztlan which is the name of the land the US stole from Mexico.

Support 100 per cent.

The key to revolution in the US lies in the national liberation of the Black/New Afrikan, Puerto Rican, Aztlan and First Nations...Until those things start happening the white nation working class will remain largely chained to being Imperialism's lap dog as it is now (and no Im not a MTW-ist).

I wish we heard more about those national liberation struggles on Revleft.

[¿Que?]

They tend to be a favorite among right wing left bashers, although pissing off right wingers never posed much of a problem to me. However, I can see how popular sentiment among centrists and liberals might turn against them on account of the demonization from the right. Personally, I prefer Latino/a movements that are more broadly geared towards uniting all of South and Central America, including Mexican-Americans and Chicanos (which my understanding is that the two are pretty much the same thing, and have more to do with self-identification than anything else). If the Aztlan movement can successfully integrate itself into this larger struggle, the pink tide if you will, then I would see no reason not to support them. On the other hand, if the emphasis is on creating a Chicano movement distinct from the broader Latino movement then I have to be skeptical.

[gorillafuck]

I don't know much about it. Is the movement socialist?

[Magón]

I don't know much about it. Is the movement socialist?

It's more of a cultural movement, than a political movement. It stems from the Mexican-American Civil Rights movements and such.

[FreeFocus]

I support Mexican movements to rediscover their culture, but I have strong criticisms of the MEChA-ist movements and organizations. There is a lot of racism embedded in Mexican society, which stems from its colonial past. The vast majority of Mexicans are, by blood, Indigenous. There is essentially a caste system in Mexico, where Indians are relegated to the bottom of society and Whites are viewed as beautiful and successful. Whites in Mexico control business and the government. Still, you will have brown-skinned Mexicans, visibly Indigenous, proclaim themselves "mestizo" and get highly offended when they are called "indio." Race and class intersect strongly, but so does geography. An Indigenous person can move from the countryside into the city, speak Spanish and abandon his or her native culture, and become mestizo, more or less.

Against this background, you have groups like MEChA and political ideas like Aztlan which emphasize Indigenous heritage for political gain in the US. It allows the argument about immigration to shift to favor Mexicans ("We are indigenous to this continent, not whites. We can immigrate wherever we'd like."). Yeah, it's a true argument more or less, by why are they not talking about relearning their native languages? Why are they not talking about supporting the Zapatistas and ensuring that Indigenous rights are respected in Mexico? The southwest of the US is NOT Mexico, it is Comanche, Apache, Navajo, Pomo, etc. territory. Yes, the Mexican-American War was a war of American aggression and imperialism, but lets not act like Mexico is a perfect, innocent state. No, it has Native blood on its hands too.

So, I think it's complicated. Some organizations can get critical support. On the whole, I don't think the movement has the right answer.

[Palingenisis]

But how much for want of a better word "Latinos" are oppressed within US borders? And how much are they actually a nation within US borders?

[IronEastBloc]

I do not support. it's based on well-intended but misguided ethnic nationalism, rather than in any real basis in Marxist ideology. Just because Right-wingers hate them, doesn't make me any more inclined to find them agreeable.

I imagine if it were to be a reality, it'd just degenerate into another bourgeois state.

[FreeFocus]

But how much for want of a better word "Latinos" are oppressed within US borders? And how much are they actually a nation within US borders?

Chicanos are oppressed, for sure. We only have to look at the discrimination and racial violence that ensued after Anglos started migrating to formerly-Mexican territory after the Mexican-American War. There's obviously a lot of violence and ill-will towards immigrants today as well, particularly Mexicans. Puerto Rico is an American colony, a victim of American imperialism, and the majority of Puerto Ricans and "Hispanics" live in barrios/ghettos today.

Do they constitute a nation within US borders? I'm not sure about that (the only nations that would fit that criteria to me are Native nations, but then again I'm not all that well-versed on this idea. I guess I know the most about it in the context of African-Americans. Are African-Americans a nation? I would lean towards saying yes because of the shared historical experience). Their home countries are victims of American imperialism, and their communities in the US suffer from police brutality, class oppression, etc.

[Os Cangaceiros]

It's a nationalist movement. Taken at face value, chicano advocacy groups like MEChA et al are kinda like the NAACP...in other words I fail to see how they're beneficial to the cause of the "revolutionary left". Their stated goal is chicano political advocacy within the United States.

Also, I don't see how they can qualify as an "indigenous" movement. Their existence was created after 300 years of domination by the Spaniards, during which a good job was done with "clearing the ground" in N. Mexico with war, disease and assimilation (which the Spanish did much more thoroughly than their counterparts the English). It's a different situation in S. Mexico, where the Spanish never really completely tamed the local population, and where indigenous bloodlines still run strong.