If we apply the "each according to his need" thingy, can I have all the drinks ?

[PassTheBeer]

There is no money. I walk into a bar. How many beers can I get ?

[thriller]

As many as you need. As long as you give back to the bar to the best of your ability.

[Revolutionair]

Not so many, since you can't hold your liquor.

[F9]

You need to give nothing to the bar.What you give , you give it to the community.
But yes, as there is no money, there is free beer for all;)

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Can a mod move this to Chit Chat, please?

[F9]

Can a mod move this to Chit Chat, please?

How many beers may make it a bit unserious, but the concept of "according your needs" is a legitimate learning question(and a quite common really)

[ckaihatsu]

There is no money. I walk into a bar. How many beers can I get ?


[smart-ass answer]

How many can you brew?

[/smart-ass answer]


No, really, though, it's a useful and realistic question.

I'm of the position -- more "permissive" than that of others here -- that, as long as a post-capitalist society had *enough* people self-tasked to the industrial mass production of goods and services necessary for a humane functioning of society, then there would be a certain *surplus* available for general leisurely consumption -- this would include beer.





I have two responses to this issue:

- One is that there could very well be a "core" of hobbyist-like liberated laborers who wind up plotting society's technical and artistic trajectory from their own interests and inclinations, as long as they have a sufficient political base by which to do so, for using society's collectivized implements. These would be the liberated scientists and artists of a post-capitalist society, free to pursue their large-scale-enabled visions as long as there were no legitimate political grounds for denying them their proportionate access to collectivized implements.

- A second would be that there *could* be a "division of labor" in a post-commodity economic context, by which *mass demands* could be fulfilled by *mass liberated labor*, and *not* dependent on a perpetual avant garde sector of society for forward progress. In this way liberated labor would *not* be tied into being one and the same as those who politically *support* a project, and, likewise, those who *are* political and provide proposed plans for the use of society's collectivized machinery would not be constrained to their own ranks for the subsequent *implementation* of those (mass-approved) plans, as with their own liberated labor alone.

I have a model that provides for the enactment of this second, more flexible, option, enabling a truly mass-based post-commodity political economy -- it's at my blog entry, and one excerpt is here:





Infrastructure / overhead

communist administration -- Distinct from the general political culture each project or production run will include a provision for an associated administrative component as an integral part of its total policy package -- a selected policy's proponents will be politically responsible for overseeing its implementation according to the policy's provisions

labor [supply] -- All workers will be entirely liberated from all coercion and threats related to basic human living needs, regardless of work status -- any labor roles will be entirely self-selected and open to collective labor organizing efforts on the basis of accumulated labor credits

consumption [demand] -- A regular, routine system of mass individual political demand pooling -- as with spreadsheet templates and email -- must be in continuous operation so as to aggregate cumulative demands into the political process

http://www.revleft.com/vb/blog.php?u=16162


communist economy diagram

http://i48.tinypic.com/2iiitma.jpg

http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1541821&postcount=3

[revolution inaction]

If we apply the "each according to his need" thingy, can I have all the drinks ?

no, you'd die

[Sosa]

as many as you need to pass out :lol:

[Kuppo Shakur]

You guys are all reactionaries. Alcohol and all other drugs will be abolished.
[/troll]

[Weezer]

I don't know why you'd need to drown yourself in self-delusions if we have passed the capitalist mode of production.

[StalinFanboy]

Because drug and alcohol use is fun and relaxing? Not everyone is always trying to escape through drug and alcohol use...

[Weezer]

Because drug and alcohol use is fun and relaxing? Not everyone is always trying to escape through drug and alcohol use...

It may be, but PassTheBeer is implying alcohol is a need. Which it isn't.

[gorillafuck]

I don't know why you'd need to drown yourself in self-delusions if we have passed the capitalist mode of production.
People like to drink because they think it's fun.


It may be, but PassTheBeer is implying alcohol is a need. Which it isn't.
People also want fun and there's nothing wrong with it.

[StalinFanboy]

It may be, but PassTheBeer is implying alcohol is a need. Which it isn't.
Marx defines "wants" as "needs of the mind."

[Ocean Seal]

There is no money. I walk into a bar. How many beers can I get ?
I'd have to stop you once you said something like capitalism is a great idea, let's go back to it, or if you say "Sarah Palin is a feminist" or "I was watching Beck the other day, and I realized communism == fascism, and is a threat to the American way" because that implies that you're too drunk, and you should probably stop before you die. Otherwise, I guess you could drink as much as you'd like.

[PassTheBeer]

As many as you need. As long as you give back to the bar to the best of your ability.

How will we now that I earned the right to have them ? Lets say I travel somewhere (case of global revolution) and I enter a bar there.
Are you implying that at that time everyone will have his duties and automaticly gets all the drinks he want. What if that person was slacking the last month.

This is a question concerning organization.

[PassTheBeer]

You guys are all reactionaries. Alcohol and all other drugs will be abolished.
[/troll]

:(

[Kuppo Shakur]

:(
As the Stalinists say: DEAL WITH IT.
[/more troll]

[ckaihatsu]

How will we now that I earned the right to have them ? Lets say I travel somewhere (case of global revolution) and I enter a bar there.
Are you implying that at that time everyone will have his duties and automaticly gets all the drinks he want. What if that person was slacking the last month.

This is a question concerning organization.


It's amusing that the answer to your question was the very post *preceding* your question....





I'd have to stop you once you said something like capitalism is a great idea, let's go back to it, or if you say "Sarah Palin is a feminist" or "I was watching Beck the other day, and I realized communism == fascism, and is a threat to the American way" because that implies that you're too drunk, and you should probably stop before you die. Otherwise, I guess you could drink as much as you'd like.


In other words, in a world revolutionary political environment all you'd *really* have to do is be political -- this would apply to everyone, across-the-board. So as we're used to seeing sensationalistic / shock journalism *these* days from the bourgeois media, in the interests of conditioning us as to what is *currently* considered "anti-social" behavior, we might similarly have *revolutionary* political journalism that exposes the most egregious counter-revolutionary sentiments lingering on the outskirts of a world-revolutionary-worker-controlled mainstream societal disposition.

[PassTheBeer]

As the Stalinists say: DEAL WITH IT.
[/more troll]

even Nazis had beer :tt2:.. and don't forget Jagermeister (1935)

[Kuppo Shakur]

even Nazis had beer :tt2:.. and don't forget Jagermeister (1935)
Therefore, Alcohol = fascism.
Quod Erat Demonstratum.

[PassTheBeer]

Therefore, Alcohol = fascism.
Quod Erat Demonstratum.

Then workers = fascism

[thriller]

Marx defines "wants" as "needs of the mind."

Marx also drank a lot. Stop contradicting yourself!

[La Peur Rouge]

Then workers = fascism

What?

[Scary Monster]

You guys are all reactionaries. Alcohol and all other drugs will be abolished.
[/troll]

Wow post-revolutionary society would be pretty fucking boring if you have your way

[Jalapeno Enema]

How will we now that I earned the right to have them?How do we know that you earned the right to have them as it is now?

Just because you got a fist-full of cash doesn't mean you did anything to deserve it (perhaps you're a mugger, earned an inheritance, or counterfeiter)


even Nazis had beer .. and don't forget Jagermeister (1935)
Jagermeister. . .as if I needed another reason to hate nazis.

[StalinFanboy]

Marx also drank a lot. Stop contradicting yourself!
When did I contradict myself?

I'm saying that making a distinction between our 'wants' and our 'needs' is stupid.

[YouSSR]

Stupid OP but I'll give an answer to anyone who is intelligent enough to articulate the fundamental question behind it.

The misunderstanding about limited resources as a contradiction to "to each according to his needs" is a misunderstanding of the nature of capitalism. Capitalism suppresses surplus supplies, and in fact large surpluses cause crises in capitalism. The US government pays farmers to not use their land as too much wheat (beer in this case) would cause a crisis in the price of beer.

Socialism removes a profit motive and extraction of surplus value by capitalists, and therefore removes the motive to suppress surpluses. Of course it's arguable how much beer one "needs", but in a communist ideal no one will ever go hungry or thirsty. This should be obvious since with the current food and water resources of the word we could feed every person on the planet for basically nothing. Famines and malnutrition in the modern day have nothing to do with a shortage of food and instead come from distribution problems and capitalism. This isn't even communist, this is pretty much well accepted by everyone with even a little amount of knowledge in anti-poverty work.

[PassTheBeer]

Stupid OP

How come ?

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

As the Stalinists say: DEAL WITH IT.
[/more troll]
You mean "Off to the gulags with you"?

[kitsune]

Stupid OP


How come ?

The two paragraphs that follow his assertion answer your question. The original question is based on false assumptions of value and scarcity.

Even in this economy, I am offered more free beer (and wine and cider and mead) than I could ever use. I know several people who are into homebrewing, and they give away liters and liters of the stuff. I don't drink much, but I do like to use it in cooking. Beer + brisket x slow cooker = YUM.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

The two paragraphs that follow his assertion answer your question. The original question is based on false assumptions of value and scarcity.

Even in this economy, I am offered more free beer (and wine and cider and mead) than I could ever use. I know several people who are into homebrewing, and they give away liters and liters of the stuff. I don't drink much, but I do like to use it in cooking. Beer + brisket x slow cooker = YUM.
What's a brisket?

[kitsune]

What's a brisket?

A cut of meat from the breast, usually referring to beef though it can be from any animal.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

A cut of meat from the breast, usually referring to beef though it can be from any animal.
I've been veggie over half my life. That explains my not knowing.