Brazil recognizes Palestinian state

[Bandito]

SAO PAULO – Brazil says it has recognized the state of Palestine based on borders at the time of Israel's 1967 conquest of the West Bank.
The Foreign Ministry says the recognition is in response to a request made by Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas last month to President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva.
Silva sent a letter to Abbas on Dec. 1, saying Brazil recognizes Palestine and hopes that the recognition will help lead to states of Israel and Palestine "that will coexist peacefully and in security."
The foreign ministry says that the recognition is "in line with Brazil's historic willingness to contribute to peace between Israel and Palestine."
The announcement was posted Friday on the Foreign Ministry's website.


http://www.fotosearch.com/bthumb/UNN/UNN294/u25852522.jpg


Source (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101203/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_brazil_palestine)

[Cane Nero]

SAO PAULO – Brazil says it has recognized the state of Palestine based on borders at the time of Israel's 1967 conquest of the West Bank.
The Foreign Ministry says the recognition is in response to a request made by Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas last month to President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva.
Silva sent a letter to Abbas on Dec. 1, saying Brazil recognizes Palestine and hopes that the recognition will help lead to states of Israel and Palestine "that will coexist peacefully and in security."
The foreign ministry says that the recognition is "in line with Brazil's historic willingness to contribute to peace between Israel and Palestine."
The announcement was posted Friday on the Foreign Ministry's website.


http://www.fotosearch.com/bthumb/UNN/UNN294/u25852522.jpg



Source (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101203/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_brazil_palestine)


Lula also supported the nuclear program of Iran.

[blake 3:17]

Great news!

[Delenda Carthago]

Great news!
yes!we are one step closer to WWIII!woohoo!!!

[Blackscare]

yes!we are one step closer to WWIII!woohoo!!!


That's implying a significant portion of the world would side with Israel.

[Delenda Carthago]

That's implying a significant portion of the world would side with Israel.
No.Thats realising that the games of the Russian-chinese Axis have nothing to do with the struggle of Palestinians for liberation.

[Nolan]

No.Thats realising that the games of the Russian-chinese Axis have nothing to do with the struggle of Palestinians for liberation.

Please explain to the class what Brazil recognizing Palestine has to do with Russian-Chinese imperial ambitions.

[Delenda Carthago]

The world once again is diveded in two parts. The one part is what we call "The empire"- US,EU,CAnada,Israel,Colombia,South Korea,Japan and the other is the Russian-Chinese Axis with Brazil-Iran- Venezuela as their supporters and North Korea as a tool for the Chinese. The recognision of Brazil has NOTHING to do with beeing good hearted or feeling for the struggle of the Palestinians. Its about pushing Isreal and playing geopolitical games on their names. So I dont think its something to be happy about, thats it.

[Amado]

Lula also supported the nuclear program of Iran.Although Dilma now talks of how supporting Iran was a bad idea and such.

[Nolan]

The world once again is diveded in two parts. The one part is what we call "The empire"- US,EU,CAnada,Israel,Colombia,South Korea,Japan and the other is the Russian-Chinese Axis with Brazil-Iran- Venezuela as their supporters and North Korea as a tool for the Chinese. The recognision of Brazil has NOTHING to do with beeing good hearted or feeling for the struggle of the Palestinians. Its about pushing Isreal and playing geopolitical games on their names. So I dont think its something to be happy about, thats it.

It's just not that simple. Brazil is tied economically and politically to the US more than other powers. This is just a symptom of the recent trend we've been seeing where the US is losing complete political hegemony over much of the world as Russia and China pick up momentum. Brazil has no inherent interest in supporting Israel and no antagonism toward Palestine or any Muslim country.

[freepalestine]

Argentina recognizes Palestine
Published yesterday (updated) 06/12/2010 20:01
http://www.revleft.com/vb/images/ViewDetails/Eng-1.jpg http://www.revleft.com/vb/images/ViewDetails/Eng+1.jpg





BUENOS AIRES (AFP) - Argentina said Monday it recognized a "free and independent" Palestinian state, days after Brazil drew sharp criticism from Israel and US lawmakers for taking the same step.

Argentine President Cristina Kirchner wrote to her Palestinian counterpart Mahmoud Abbas saying her country recognizes a Palestine defined by 1967 borders, officials said.

"The Argentine government recognizes Palestine as a free and independent state within the borders defined in 1967," Argentine Foreign Minister Hector Timerman said, reading from the letter.

Israel has already reacted with "sadness and disappointment" to Brazil's declaration on the issue, saying it breached a 1995 agreement it had with the Palestinian Authority that any Palestinian state should only come about through negotiations with it.

US lawmakers have called Brazil's decision "severely misguided" and "regrettable."

Western countries have agreed that any definition of a Palestinian state required Israeli approval. The United States has consistently protected Israel's position in the UN Security Council.

Argentina's move came after Brazil last Friday made public a letter it had sent also recognizing a Palestinian state including West Bank and Gaza, which Israel seized in the 1967 Six Day War and has occupied since.

Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, who had sought a mediator role in the Israeli-Palestinian situation, made the decision shortly before he is to stand down on 1 January next year.

His protegee and former cabinet chief, Dilma Rousseff, has been elected to take over from him on pledges to pursue his policies.

Argentina said its recognition of a Palestinian state reflected a general consensus in Mercosur, the South American trade bloc.

Mercosur's members are: Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay and Uruguay. Venezuela's membership is pending. Associate members are: Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador Ecuador and Peru.

The announcements by Brazil and Argentina come as peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians teeter on the brink of collapse following the end of a temporary ban on Jewish settlement building in the West Bank.

Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman said Monday he did "not see any reason" to extend the settlement freeze.

Abbas has said he will not return to negotiations while Israel continues to build on land the Palestinians want for their state.

He has repeatedly said he would explore other options if the peace talks collapse -- including asking for UN recognition of a Palestinian state based on the 1967 borders.
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=339643

[Comrade Gwydion]

Domino theory?

[Robocommie]

The world once again is diveded in two parts. The one part is what we call "The empire"- US,EU,CAnada,Israel,Colombia,South Korea,Japan and the other is the Russian-Chinese Axis with Brazil-Iran- Venezuela as their supporters and North Korea as a tool for the Chinese. The recognision of Brazil has NOTHING to do with beeing good hearted or feeling for the struggle of the Palestinians. Its about pushing Isreal and playing geopolitical games on their names. So I dont think its something to be happy about, thats it.

Cold War is over

[Spawn of Stalin]

Great news, especially with Brazil becoming a major player in international politics and economics.

[RedStarOverChina]

The world once again is diveded in two parts. The one part is what we call "The empire"- US,EU,CAnada,Israel,Colombia,South Korea,Japan and the other is the Russian-Chinese Axis with Brazil-Iran- Venezuela as their supporters and North Korea as a tool for the Chinese. The recognision of Brazil has NOTHING to do with beeing good hearted or feeling for the struggle of the Palestinians. Its about pushing Isreal and playing geopolitical games on their names. So I dont think its something to be happy about, thats it.Facepalm.

So North Korea, Venezuela Brazil and Iran are all "tools of the Chinese"? Where do you get your sources? The Glenn Beck Univeristy?


Good for Brazil. It's just unfortunate that the Palestinian "government" it recognized is corrupt, incompetent and servile beyond saving.

[4 Leaf Clover]

Very good news. Is this an intro to division of Israel ? And did Argentina and Brazil by recognizing "Palestinian State" recognize Gaza and West Bank , or complete ? I guess it's the first.

[RedStarOverChina]

Very good news. Is this an intro to division of Israel ? And did Argentina and Brazil by recognizing "Palestinian State" recognize Gaza and West Bank , or complete ? I guess it's the first.
By the 67' borders. Which would mean them both, and then some.

[RebelDog]

yes!we are one step closer to WWIII!woohoo!!!

If you lived in Palestine you would think it was, at times, WWIII.

[Jalapeno Enema]

Very good news. Is this an intro to division of Israel ? And did Argentina and Brazil by recognizing "Palestinian State" recognize Gaza and West Bank , or complete ? I guess it's the first.
By the 67' borders. Which would mean them both, and then some.
http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo340/seeing_it/Israel_stealing_palestine.jpg

[Cane Nero]

Although Dilma now talks of how supporting Iran was a bad idea and such.
It reminds me that during election time Dilma advocated the legalization of abortion, but when she realized she was losing votes because of this, decided not to legalize.

[Delenda Carthago]

Facepalm.

So North Korea, Venezuela Brazil and Iran are all "tools of the Chinese"? Where do you get your sources? The Glenn Beck Univeristy?


Good for Brazil. It's just unfortunate that the Palestinian "government" it recognized is corrupt, incompetent and servile beyond saving.
Actually, Iran, Venezuela and Brazil are more close to Russia than China.
Other than that,I dont accept critisism by someone who supports today's China.

And to the moron that said that "Cold War is over" maybe he should check his facts about a war on Georgia.No,not the one in the US.The other one,near Russia.

[Cane Nero]

Actually, Iran, Venezuela and Brazil are more close to Russia than China.
Other than that,I dont accept critisism by someone who supports today's China.


In fact, Brazil has more relations with China than with Russia.
Brazil is a major exporter of raw materials and also buyer of Chinese products.

[progressive_lefty]

It's great too see recognition of the Palestinian State, especially considering there are soo many countries in the world that refuse to recognise it's existence, in contrast to Israel.

[LiberationFrequency]

It's good to see a government come out in support of an oppressed nation in the face of imperialism.

[Delenda Carthago]

http://www.revleft.com/vb/wikileaks-cable-shows-t146279/index.html

"Cold war is over":thumbup:

[Cane Nero]

It's good to see a government come out in support of an oppressed nation in the face of imperialism.

I would not be so happy, now that Brazil supports from Palestine to Iran.

Lula, and probably Dilma, will try to maintain a neutral relationship with countries in conflict.

[Cane Nero]

youre not happy that brazil 'supports' palestine?

Yes, but Brazil, in this current style of government, always tries to stay neutral with all countries, I.E. even with Brazil supporting the Palestinians it will not be responsible for their release.
The only ones that can really liberate Palestine are the Palestinians themselves.

[Bandito]

The only ones that can really liberate Palestine are the Palestinians themselves.
Well they are trying for the last 60 years, doesn't seem to be working without support.

[freepalestine]

AO6-HeXAxuE

[Luís Henrique]

Although Dilma now talks of how supporting Iran was a bad idea and such.

She said she doesn't support stonings. Which is very different from "supporting Iran was a bad idea".

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

It reminds me that during election time Dilma advocated the legalization of abortion, but when she realized she was losing votes because of this, decided not to legalize.

This is false on so many levels.

First, the decriminalisation of abortion is a programmatic issue of the PT. So all affiliates are bound by it. How they rationalize the conflict between this and their eventual religious beliefs is a different issue.

Second, it was never an election promise; she was never "advocating the legalisation of abortion" "during election time".

Third, in Brazilian politics, this is a minor issue. It was Serra's campaign that tried to bring it to the fore (and did it in the worst way, associating it with the most ridiculous North-American-like pseudo-ideas about abortion and its legalisation).

Fourth, if you read her supposed about-face, you will see that she actually didn't change anything. She promised not to sanction a supposed bill decriminalising abortion. The odds of such bill passing ground in Brazilian Congress are absolutely null - so essentially she promised not to sanction a bill that will never be brought to her appreciation.

Fifth, the actual battle ground for the abortion issue in Brazil is not Congress, but governmental decrees. It is through them that abortion is being, in practice, decriminalised (and, ironically, Serra himself was quite instrumental to this, when, as Health Minister, he decreed the public health postos should buy and keep the necessary instruments for performing legal abortions).

But, evidently, let's not allow facts to stand in the way of our petty politics.

Luís Henrique

[Trigonometry]

Actually, Iran, Venezuela and Brazil are more close to Russia than China.
Other than that,I dont accept critisism by someone who supports today's China.

And to the moron that said that "Cold War is over" maybe he should check his facts about a war on Georgia.No,not the one in the US.The other one,near Russia.

I hope you are not serious

Iran is closer to Russia than China geographically thats it, Russians have had a history of desires to encroach into Iranian oil in the North. While China and Iran have close economic ties that root back to the silkroad, and China is without a doubt involved in Iran's nuclear programme, moreover China is greatly involved in trade with Iran in terms of purchasing fossil fuels from Iran while Russia is infact a competitor. Iran's attitude towards China can even be seen in the Iranian ambivalence in controversies regarding China's large Muslim population.
Don't get me started on Venezuela

The cold war is over, regardless of what Chinese nationalists may tell you, its still far from being a power to openly challenge the USA cold war style.
Russia-China axis? how laughable, your simplistic notions red vs blue east vs west idea of international affairs is quite frankly childish, Russia and China have a long history of competition, so much that even in the cold war the two powers could not maintain a fruitful long term alliance, breaking into the sino soviet split and even fighting open battles on the borders. How is it that you are proposing that the two nations are suddenly so cooperative now?
you are probably going to tell me the USSR is not the same as Russia judging from your posts so far.

The war in Georgia is a new cold war? Please! What step have the Americans done in actively involving themselves in 2008? Did they send weapons or is the CIA supporting fundamentalist groups? Georgia is merely Russia asserting and renewing its dominance following its collapse, through war boosting support and building faith in the new country it was quite simply reclaiming Russia's traditional 'zone of influence'


Other than that,I dont accept critisism by someone who supports today's China.
perhaps you should also make your other political stance also on your emotional whims, and just join a rhetoric filled nationalist party

[Nolan]

Trigonometry isn't shaping up. Russia and China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Cooperation_Organisation) are strong allies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Russia_relations), and rising imperial powers.

The Sino-Soviet split wasn't the product of some clash of civilizations, but an ideological fallout pitting post-Stalin Soviet revisionism against Maoism.

[Cane Nero]

This is false on so many levels.

First, the decriminalisation of abortion is a programmatic issue of the PT. So all affiliates are bound by it. How they rationalize the conflict between this and their eventual religious beliefs is a different issue.

I do not understand why you are talking about religion, but anyway ...



Second, it was never an election promise; she was never "advocating the legalisation of abortion" "during election time".

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITAwV6gg3kY&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITAwV6gg3kY&feature=related)



Third, in Brazilian politics, this is a minor issue. It was Serra's campaign that tried to bring it to the fore (and did it in the worst way, associating it with the most ridiculous North-American-like pseudo-ideas about abortion and its legalisation).

I'm not pro-Serra and I'm sure he's a hypocrite, but the point is that Dilma and PT are too.



Fifth, the actual battle ground for the abortion issue in Brazil is not Congress, but governmental decrees. It is through them that abortion is being, in practice, decriminalised (and, ironically, Serra himself was quite instrumental to this, when, as Health Minister, he decreed the public health postos should buy and keep the necessary instruments for performing legal abortions).

Serra again....
Dude, my problem is not related to abortion, but with populist acts of members of the PT, who "change their ideas" to get themselves elected.

[Luís Henrique]

I do not understand why you are talking about religion, but anyway ...

Well, if you think you can discuss abortion in a majoritarily Catholic country like Brazil without bringing religion into the mess...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITAwV6gg3kY&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITAwV6gg3kY&feature=related)

So? where was she promising the decriminalisation of abortion?


I'm not pro-Serra and I'm sure he's a hypocrite, but the point is that Dilma and PT are too.

Serra again....
Dude, my problem is not related to abortion, but with populist acts of members of the PT, who "change their ideas" to get themselves elected.

But your problem is that you couldn't show us anything similar. Dilma's position is absolutely coherent: she won't take measures to change legislation on abortion; she promises that women seeking medical help from the State won't be turned to the police because of that. This was what she said in the video you posted, that is what she said in her "concession" to religious leaders.

Luís Henrique

[Cane Nero]

Well, if you think you can discuss abortion in a majoritarily Catholic country like Brazil without bringing religion into the mess...

I am not Catholic. If you were arguing with religious certainly yes, but I understand your point.



www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITAwV6gg3kY&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITAwV6gg3kY&feature=related)

So? where was she promising the decriminalisation of abortion?


In the video we can clearly see that she is pro-abortion.
But after Serra use that against her, and she realized she was losing votes suddenly changed sides.

http://ultimosegundo.ig.com.br/eleicoes/em+carta+dilma+se+compromete+a+nao+mexer+na+lei+do +aborto/n1237803310692.html

[Luís Henrique]

I am not Catholic. If you were arguing with religious certainly yes, but I understand your point.


In the video we can clearly see that she is pro-abortion.
But after Serra use that against her, and she realized she was losing votes suddenly changed sides.

http://ultimosegundo.ig.com.br/eleicoes/em+carta+dilma+se+compromete+a+nao+mexer+na+lei+do +aborto/n1237803310692.html

Of course she is pro-choice. Also of course, she understands that this isn't what a presidential election is about. And that promising to decriminalise abortion would be an error, because a) it cannot be done except via Congress, where there isn't a majority for it; and b) there were more important points to be addressed.

That is why she was very cautious in stating her position. Nowhere she promises decriminalisation. What she promises is that the public health system - that is under the responsibility of the President - will take health measures adequate to the situations, without involving the police. This is quite different, and does not even imply that the public health system will perform abortions; it merely means that women who have otherwise had abortions, and seek the public health system for further care, will find public health facilities equiped for that care, and won't be denounced to the police by physicians or nurses. And if you compare this to what she promised to the religious leaders, you will see there is no actual change in content.

What she made was a mere change in emphasys. To the journalists, in the video you posted, she says:

"I am not going to change the laws, but the public policies I support don't include the murder by ommission of women seeking post-abortion care."

To the religious leaders, she said:

"The public policies I support don't include the murder by ommission of women seeking post-abortion care, but I am not going to change the laws."

How is this anything questionable, I can't figure out.

Luís Henrique

[Cane Nero]

Of course she is pro-choice. Also of course, she understands that this isn't what a presidential election is about. And that promising to decriminalise abortion would be an error, because a) it cannot be done except via Congress, where there isn't a majority for it; and b) there were more important points to be addressed.


I did not want to turn this into a discussion about politics in Brazil, but ...

Well, first I just mentioned the issue of abortion because I wanted to show that Dilma "changed her mind" to win votes. She has always been in favor of legalized abortion and suddenly changed her opinion being against abortion. And yes, there are certainly more important things to worry about.

Secondly, I wanted to ask what kind of party and / or ideology identifies you?

[Luís Henrique]

Well, first I just mentioned the issue of abortion because I wanted to show that Dilma "changed her mind" to win votes. She has always been in favor of legalized abortion and suddenly changed her opinion being against abortion.

Which is false.

There are no political conditions to pass legislation decriminalising abortion in Brazil today. Brazil isn't the United States, where such rules depend on the Supreme Court, and, so, ultimately, on the President. Here it is necessary to have a majority in Congress. So talks about it are either empty bragadoccio, or provocations to inflict pro-choice forces a decisive defeat (as, for instance, Marina Silva's proposal of a plebiscite).


And yes, there are certainly more important things to worry about.

And if there are more important things to worry about, is it absurd to give up this issue, to gain more on more important things?


Secondly, I wanted to ask what kind of party and / or ideology identifies you?

I am a member of the PT's left. And you, may I ask to what party or ideology you identify with?

Luís Henrique

[Cane Nero]

Which is false.

There are no political conditions to pass legislation decriminalising abortion in Brazil today. Brazil isn't the United States, where such rules depend on the Supreme Court, and, so, ultimately, on the President. Here it is necessary to have a majority in Congress. So talks about it are either empty bragadoccio, or provocations to inflict pro-choice forces a decisive defeat (as, for instance, Marina Silva's proposal of a plebiscite).



And if there are more important things to worry about, is it absurd to give up this issue, to gain more on more important things?

http://ultimosegundo.ig.com.br/eleic...803310692.html (http://ultimosegundo.ig.com.br/eleic...803310692.html)



I am a member of the PT's left. And you, may I ask to what party or ideology you identify with?


I've realized that you belonged to the PT, just wanted to confirm this.

I am not connected and don´t support any political party, and I´m not adept of any ideology.But I have tendencies to anarchism and communism.

I'll give you one of the many reasons that I don´t believe more in the Workers' Party.
The ex vice-president during Lula government:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Alencar