National Day Parades

[balaclava]

A couple of weeks back I was in Mexico and it was national day. They had marching bands and school kids dressed up in national dress. Is that a bad thing? Do the comrades here think that national day parades are good thing or a bad thing? Why?

[ComradeMan]

Patriotism is loving one's own country and people and culture, nationalism is hating someone else's. Given that Mexicans are celebrating their liberation from colonialism then it's no problem for me, unless of course it turns into hating others.

[Bud Struggle]

I don't see anything wrong with anyone celebrating a certain heritage. In fact it's pretty nice. It ties on with one's home and locality (even if that locality is a country) and the extended traditions that go with them.

Even if we achieve a classless stateless society it should be a good thing for local traditions to be observed.

[marxist maxime]

i think it's a brilliant ideafor a country to celebrate it culture and triumphs..although i have to admit in someplaces there isnt really much ardour to be patriotic.in England we have saint georges day but no one gives a toss, f*ck the saints! f*ck the monarchy! can't we just have a Britain/England day? but on the other side of the channel france loves itself.:confused:

[Struggle]

The difference with many people celebrating the National day of Britain as opposed to that of Mexico, is that Britain has been developed through the rape and pillage of other countries for the purpose of profit and economic power.
One would ideally prefer nobody at all taking part in the celebration of a specific country, however, it is more understandable for people of a specific country such as Mexico or Cuba for wanting to do so, as opposed to people of a country such as the United States of America or Britain, both of which have been built on and through the use of imperialism as a means to improve the conditions for themselves and not of the collective.

[ComradeMan]

The difference with many people celebrating the National day of Britain as opposed to that of Mexico, is that Britain has been developed through the rape and pillage of other countries for the purpose of profit and economic power.

One would ideally prefer nobody at all taking part in the celebration of a specific country, however, it is more understandable for people of a specific country such as Mexico or Cuba for wanting to do so, as opposed to people of a country such as the United States of America or Britain, both of which have been built on and through the use of imperialism as a means to improve the conditions for themselves and not of the collective.

Well I didn't think Britain really had a "national day", FA Cup Final? LOL!!! But although some of your points are true, lets not forget the workers of Britain, the Tolpuddle Martyrs, the victims of the Peterloo Massacre, the George Orwells, Dickens, Darwins, Rutherfords and so an, and of course the many hundreds of thousands who died fighting fascism and Nazism too...

You're mixing a popular celebration of culture with statist nationalism.

[Struggle]

Well I didn't think Britain really had a "national day", FA Cup Final? LOL!!! But although some of your points are true, lets not forget the workers of Britain, the Tolpuddle Martyrs, the victims of the Peterloo Massacre, the George Orwells, Dickens, Darwins, Rutherfords and so an, and of course the many hundreds of thousands who died fighting fascism and Nazism too...

You're mixing a popular celebration of culture with statist nationalism.

No ComradeMan, when I speak of 'National Days', I mean celebrations such as St Georges Day, which is often primarily about Nationalism rather than the victory over Fascism.

I would say the National Day for most people in Britain would be St Georges Day.

[ComradeMan]

No ComradeMan, when I speak of 'National Days', I mean celebrations such as St Georges Day, which is often primarily about Nationalism rather than the victory over Fascism.

I would say the National Day for most people in Britain would be St Georges Day.

I thought it was only in England to start with- when I was working in London it seemed to pass without any real note at all- a few pubs with flags and a few elderly people wearing red roses and stuff.... other than the EDL and BNP lunatics the English struck me as being decidely un-nationalistic in comparison to many continental Europeans....

Next year is the 150th birthday of Italy.

Do we celebrate it? For defeating feudal regimes and unifying a territory and modernising a country?

Do we hate it for Mussolini and fascism? Capitalism?

Do we condemn the militarism that inevitably accompanies these things?

Do we remember the Italian partisans who fought against the invaders and the fascists? Bella, ciao!

Do we then join the anti-Italian Lega Nord (far right and xenophobic) who are also against a unified Italy?

Or do we ignore the tossers and have a nice day and think about how we can build this country to be fairer and better for all of her peoples?

[Struggle]

I thought it was only in England to start with- when I was working in London it seemed to pass without any real note at all- a few pubs with flags and a few elderly people wearing red roses and stuff.... other than the EDL and BNP lunatics the English struck me as being decidely un-nationalistic in comparison to many continental Europeans....


You should visit outside London, more so in the towns rather than the multicultural cities.

England, especially in North England, is particularly nationalistic, including people who are not members of the BNP.

Central London at least, is not such a big patriotic or nationalistic area. I live in London currently and was in London during the recent St Georges Day. However, indeed, there was not much Nationalistic presence when compared to other areas throughout England.

[Widerstand]

Remember folks, you can't have nationalism without exclusion of "strangers."

[balaclava]

As countries go, England is very old and the countries national flag, the cross of St George, has been in use for at least a thousand years. In a time scale so massive things are done and some of those things in a different time with different standards are inappropriate.

England’s national day is St Georges day but it is not celebrated with parades and very few flags a flown because we have been told (as a people) that we should not celebrate our national flag and our national day lest it offends others. Why is it only English that are not allowed to wave their national flag? How come every other nation can and do wave their flag and bear their patriotic chests but the English cannot? And, why is that the biggest national day parades tend to be in communist countries?

[ComradeMan]

And, why is that the biggest national day parades tend to be in communist countries?


All three or four of them? If they can be deemed that, as opposed to Batille Day, the 4th of July, St Patrick's Day etc etc...

[Bud Struggle]

And, why is that the biggest national day parades tend to be in communist countries?


OUCH!!! Statless Communists!

http://redarmysoldier.info/attachments/Image/maydayparade1(1).jpg

[ComradeMan]

OUCH!!! Statless Communists!



What does that photo represent Bud? A national day? May Day parade? Victory parade?

http://www.arsnovaspettacoli.com/img/bersaglieri_ciclisti2.jpg

:D

[Ele'ill]

We need more holidays that don't have closeted skeletons.


Christmas breaks my heart every year because there's nothing I love more than getting reacquainted with family- slipping under the influence by a warm fire with a Christmas tree and house so decorated and changed from previous months that it becomes a revisited memory and not an actual place- the Christmas lighthouse in the choking memory fog banks- nostalgia alight- guitar and drums and singing the snowy night and the push of food and swill. It's a time for dysfunction and serves as a reason to die as much as a reason to stay alive.

[hatzel]

Further to national day parades...what about offensively huge flags, as they seem to like in Mexico? Or the flag pole race on the border between the two Koreas. I mean, shouldn't public money be spent on something a bit more productive than a flag the size of a small country?

I think this is what it comes down to. If the parade is a spontaneous creation of the people, that they build floats, get the various sizes of guitar that they play in Mexico and walk down the streets, what's the issue? If the state is spending taxes on it all, putting on firework displays and all that jazz, then there's the question of whether this represents the will of the people...

However, as my girlfriend just so happens to be Mexican, I can assure you that Mexicans just love Mexico, so I don't think they'd ever mind about their taxes going towards this kind of thing. Even I took part in National Day here in the diaspora, by the way...good if you like mariachi music and tostadas, otherwise I might suggest you give it a miss...

[Bud Struggle]

We need more holidays that don't have closeted skeletons.


Christmas breaks my heart every year because there's nothing I love more than getting reacquainted with family- slipping under the influence by a warm fire with a Christmas tree and house so decorated and changed from previous months that it becomes a revisited memory and not an actual place- the Christmas lighthouse in the choking memory fog banks- nostalgia alight- guitar and drums and singing the snowy night and the push of food and swill. It's a time for dysfunction and serves as a reason to die as much as a reason to stay alive.

That's GOOOOOOD. :)

But swill? ;)

[Ele'ill]

That's GOOOOOOD. :)

But swill? ;)

Yeah, swill is one of those words that can be used incorrectly in the right line or marriage as it's street slang usage is extremely popular albeit incorrect.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/swill

I believe the word 'graf' refers to alcohol as well but isn't registered as an actual word or something- although I have not used it in a while

[Bud Struggle]

I believe the word 'graf' refers to alcohol as well but isn't registered as an actual word or something- although I have not used it in a while

Malte is a Graf. ;)

He's a hemophiliac and lives alone in a castle high in the Alps....he's related to the Queen of England through his great great great grandmother Victoria.

He keeps a picture of her on his piano on which he plays Chopin for an hour daily. He's a bit of as cad as most of his servant know. But only his old nanny, Civa knows the darkest yearnings of his heart.

[Ele'ill]

Malte is a Graf. ;)

He's a hemophiliac and lives alone in a castle high in the Alps....he's related to the Queen of England through his great great great grandmother Victoria.

He keeps a picture of her on his piano on which he plays Chopin for an hour daily. He's a bit of as cad as most of his servant know. But only his old nanny, Civa knows the darkest yearnings of his heart.


So is that the actual word, 'graf' or is it 'graff'? "Graft"?

Swill is used as a synonym for alcohol.

[Bud Struggle]

So is that the actual word, 'graf' or is it 'graff'? "Graft"?



Graf--it's a German "Count."

[Struggle]

As countries go, England is very old and the countries national flag, the cross of St George, has been in use for at least a thousand years. In a time scale so massive things are done and some of those things in a different time with different standards are inappropriate.

England’s national day is St Georges day but it is not celebrated with parades and very few flags a flown because we have been told (as a people) that we should not celebrate our national flag and our national day lest it offends others. Why is it only English that are not allowed to wave their national flag? How come every other nation can and do wave their flag and bear their patriotic chests but the English cannot? And, why is that the biggest national day parades tend to be in communist countries?


You live in the North West, as do I, at least before I moved to University in London.
My entire family went to a St Georges Day Parade, and even a St Georges day dinner!
Please do not jump on the band wagon with these people that state 'British people are no longer allowed to wave British flags', or ‘British people are second class citizens in ones own country’, it couldn't be further from the truth.

The biggest national day parades, if that assertion is true, tend to be in 'Communist' countries, probably because due to outside of those countries, they are facing an entire planet which wants them to bring about their complete collapse, therefore, at times it is helpful to have such parades for isolated countries, as Patriotism is a good strategy for gaining popular support.

For example; The Falklands Wars was a major reason why Thatcher remained in power after some very controversial years.

[Ele'ill]

Graf--it's a German "Count."


I am going to hunt the word down- I am almost 100% sure that 'graf' or a similar word is a reference to 'swill' or alcohol.

[Widerstand]

graf is german for count

[Ele'ill]

Yeah, I believe it is- but I think there's another not very commonly used meaning or another similar word that I'm confusing it for.

I'm sitting here saying 'graf' 'graft, daft, draft, aft, - trying to remember it. I believe Stephen King uses the word in The Dark Tower series.

[ComradeMan]

Graf--it's a German "Count."

So who are you then Bud, Ivan Skavinsky Skavar?
:lol:

Getting back to the topic---- errhum....

The trouble I think in England is that neo- groups have hijacked a lot of traditional British symbols and people might get uncomfortable with them.

It's stupid really.... St George was half-Turkish and half-Palestinian FFS, if he even existed at all!!! I wonder if the EDL know that? The "English" flag actually came from the "Italian" maritime Republic of Genoa.

[Lord Testicles]

The trouble I think in England is that neo- groups have hijacked a lot of traditional British symbols and people might get uncomfortable with them.


What British symbols are worth preserving? Looking back at the history of the British state I can't fathom what would be worth celebrating. :confused:


St George was half-Turkish and half-Palestinian FFS, if he even existed at all!!! I wonder if the EDL know that?

As long as he's a Christian, it's hypothetically A-OK with the EDL.

[ComradeMan]

What British symbols are worth preserving? Looking back at the history of the British state I can't fathom what would be worth celebrating. :confused:

In comparison to every other state no doubt.... Spain, Portugal, France, Germany, USA, Japan etc etc etc....

If you start taking away ordinary people's cultural reference points and symbols like some kind of Pol Pot figure you aren't going to get anywhere. The Soviet Union didn't destroy every last remnant of Tsarist culture, burn Russian classics of literature, ban folklore and so on...

The Abolitionists were British, the trade union movement started in Britain, all the British and Irish who died fighting the Nazis... so, frankly I don't think you should meddle to much, or you need to scrap all of it.

[Bud Struggle]

So who are you then Bud, Ivan Skavinsky Skavar?.

I'm POLISH--we're all freakin' counts. :D

[balaclava]

What British symbols are worth preserving? Looking back at the history of the British state I can't fathom what would be worth celebrating. :confused:


Considering its size and population Great Britain has given the world proportionately more than any other nation on earth - that's worth celebrating.

[Ele'ill]

Given the world what?

[hatzel]

Given the world what?

...I was going to say football, but I vaguely remember the reactionary chatter thread suggesting that wouldn't be the type of thing that would win you over...

I would argue whether it's true, though. Looking at France and Germany, to start with, and their various philosophers and psychologists respectively...what's to say one of them doesn't overtake Britain? Or look at Italy's artistic heritage. Of course we could suggest China, though I admit that it has the population advantage. We could think of the many and varied contributions of Greece, or the educational developments made in the early Muslim caliphate. Think of all the progress done in Iberia during this time...

Of course this is a somewhat Eurocentric view. We could say that Mali's contribution to music is worth mentioning. And what of the so-called New World? We could also argue that the Inca people deserve our credit, even if we later effectively wiped out all their developments. Here's some Inca mathematics, to quote José de Acosta:


To see them use another kind of calculator, with maize kernels. In order to carry out a very difficult computation for which an able computer would require pen and paper, these Indians make use of their kernels. They place one here, three somewhere else and eight. They move one kernel here and there and the fact is that they are able to complete their computation without making the smallest mistake. as a matter of fact, they are better at practical arithmetic than we are with pen and ink. Whether this is not ingenious and whether these people are wild animals let those judge who will! What I consider as certain is that in what they undertake to do they are superior to us.And think that's the issue. What do we prioritise to decide who is 'superior', who has 'contributed more'. Are the sciences worth more than the arts, or the inverse, for example? Not to say that Brits haven't contributed a great deal, but I don't think we can outright claim to be the people with the greatest relative contribution...of course if we were to take Nobel Prize laureates, for instance, we'd find the Jews to be greatly overrepresented. Just thought I'd mention that one, I'm not claiming Jewish supremacy here...it just depends on what we take as important, and how we measure the contribution...

[balaclava]

Given the world what?

You want the list - you just teasing me ?

[Baseball]

The biggest national day parades, if that assertion is true, tend to be in 'Communist' countries, probably because due to outside of those countries, they are facing an entire planet which wants them to bring about their complete collapse, therefore, at times it is helpful to have such parades for isolated countries, as Patriotism is a good strategy for gaining popular support.


Its also due to the fact that nationalism and socialism have always been closely intertwined.

It ought not be a big mystery why this is true-- its always much easier to organize the local workers (those who pretty much all speak the same language, have the same religion, have a common history ect) than organize the international workers who often have little if anything in common.

[ComradeMan]

Given the world what?

The USA.... LOL!!! Joking....

Come on!!

Let's not get into the nationalistic debate of who invented more, or did this and who did that, it's stupid.

The British have their "baggage" but at the same time Britain has produced a lot too. Scientific discovery, the theory of evolution, the underlying principles of modern science, a lot of invention etc etc.

All cultures have their "good" points- something they have given humanity.

[#FF0000]

Its also due to the fact that nationalism and socialism have always been closely intertwined.

It ought not be a big mystery why this is true-- its always much easier to organize the local workers (those who pretty much all speak the same language, have the same religion, have a common history ect) than organize the international workers who often have little if anything in common.

Yeah, utopian socialism was always intertwined with nationalism, because utopian socialism is stupid bullshit.