EDL=bullshit.

[Fullmetal Anarchist]

Just been chatting with a friend who has joined the EDL and out of some morbid curiosity went along to the forums and found this: http://s1.zetaboards.com/EDL_The_Forum/topic/3833880/1/

and also this:http://patdollard.com/2010/07/the-unpopular-truth-the-word-racist-was-invented-by-communist-revolutionary-leon-trotsky/

Now is it just me or are they for the most part uneducated thugs or are they fucking serious?

[Sasha]

Just been chatting with a friend who has joined the EDL

gqH_0LPVoho

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

You're right in assuming that they are for the most part uneducated thugs. There is no point in going onto their forums to read their bullshit, its a waste of time. You might as well bang your head against a brick wall for an hour or two.

The best thing to do is oppose them in the streets, with force.

[#FF0000]

Now is it just me or are they for the most part uneducated thugs or are they fucking serious?

I talked to them for awhile on their site actually. They really didn't know much about anything.

They're basically of the opinion--one they share with Islamic fundamentalists, mind you-- that there is only one Islam and it is violent and expansionist. Muslims who don't hate women or want to blow things up aren't "true" muslims in their eyes! I think this is very funny.

But yeah, no they weren't very well informed.

[#FF0000]

and also this:http://patdollard.com/2010/07/the-un...-leon-trotsky/

Oh by the way this is total bullshit.

[Jazzratt]

Now is it just me or are they for the most part uneducated thugs or are they fucking serious? They're uneducated thugs who are fucking serious. They don't know shit about shit but they're very loud about it.

[Dr Mindbender]

i got IP banned from their forum for explaining to them why their views are bullshit.

Guess that explains it all.

[Fullmetal Anarchist]

You're right in assuming that they are for the most part uneducated thugs. There is no point in going onto their forums to read their bullshit, its a waste of time. You might as well bang your head against a brick wall for an hour or two.

Which is exactly what it felt like talking to my mate. Thing is he's not stupid I think just mis-informed but won't listen to reason (which kinda sucks).


The best thing to do is oppose them in the streets, with force.

Oh I will be. Believe me I will be.

[#FF0000]

I remember I suggested they take a look at a book called The World's Religions, which is basically one of THE texts that they make you read in any comparative religion class.

They said no because Huston Smith did acid and so his book is obviously the product of a deviant drug-addled mind.

He actually did acid after he published the book btw.

[Jazzratt]

Clearly we're dealing with the greatest mind England has to offer.

[Fullmetal Anarchist]

I remember I suggested they take a look at a book called The World's Religions, which is basically one of THE texts that they make you read in any comparative religion class.

They said no because Huston Smith did acid and so his book is obviously the product of a deviant drug-addled mind.

He actually did acid after he published the book btw.

I see so they just don't research and are nasty people got it.

[Jazzratt]

I see so they just don't research and are nasty people got it. Well, if you talk to the ones that represent their intellectual vanguard they do some kind of research in that they have read books. The fact that these books are basically sensationalist dross that posit (as best mod pointed out earlier) fundamentalist Islam as THE ONE TROO FAYF or talk at length about the effect that Islam has on Britian (somewhat less than a damp fart in the Albert Hall) and ar egenerally no better than the comic books, like the Star, they read for 'new's (hell one of the favourites, 'Londonistan' was written by "Melanie 'sustained by the blood of the living' Phillips a star columnist for one such comic book, the Mail) is neither here nore there.

Fuck's sake. Another post that turned into a parenthesis extravaganza.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

Which is exactly what it felt like talking to my mate. Thing is he's not stupid I think just mis-informed but won't listen to reason (which kinda sucks).



Oh I will be. Believe me I will be.
I've had friends like that. You can either educate them and convince them to think in other ways, or your friendship will end.

I lost a lot of friends when I became conscious, and on reflection, it was definitely for the best.

[Revolution starts with U]

haha, we read Huston Smith in my comparitive class :P

[The Guy]

I don't get the argument. Even if it were that Trotsky was the first person to use the word "racist", no matter what, the hating of a different race did exist then and will forever exist - or at least until we wake up...

Also, I like how that guy says "zionist jews" with a sick face then later claims to like jews. They so crazy!

[Che a chara]

They are dumb ignorant fucks. They claim to be a single issue group (Islamic extremism) and they support Israel/Zionism (Which they claim to do, and if they do it's just because of the hostilities between Zionism and Islam which shows their racist/Islamophobic agenda) but take a look at the forum and sift through the posts and you'll see anti-semitism pouring out of the seams. This is why they'll continue to be splits in the EDL, because they don't know if they're Nazis or just illusionary moderate racists.

What also sickens me about them is that they try hijack the anti-racist/fascist/homophobic mantle for themselves, but their actions and verbal diarrhoea show the exact opposite. It's all about 'white culture'.

The UDL section is another place for a good old giggle. The lies, rewriting of history and sectarian bullshit is all the craze there. And since when has there ever been an Islamic extremist threat in the occupied 6 counties of Ulster? Islam is near non-existent in the North of Ireland, yet the fascist scum release statements and videos claiming otherwise. Pricks.

[ComradeMan]

They are dumb ignorant fucks. They claim to be a single issue group (Islamic extremism) and they support Israel/Zionism (Which they claim to do, and if they do it's just because of the hostilities between Zionism and Islam which shows their racist/Islamophobic agenda) but take a look at the forum and sift through the posts and you'll see anti-semitism pouring out of the seams. This is why they'll continue to be splits in the EDL, because they don't know if they're Nazis or just illusionary moderate racists.

What also sickens me about them is that they try hijack the anti-racist/fascist/homophobic mantle for themselves, but their actions and verbal diarrhoea show the exact opposite. It's all about 'white culture'.

The UDL section is another place for a good old giggle. The lies, rewriting of history and sectarian bullshit is all the craze there. And since when has there ever been an Islamic extremist threat in the occupied 6 counties of Ulster? Islam is near non-existent in the North of Ireland, yet the fascist scum release statements and videos claiming otherwise. Pricks.


Anti-Germans on the left also have a pretty pro-Israel stance, so I don't think it's good to bring in Israel to the discussion.

Nevertheless,

These groups like the EDL say they are defended English values, culture and tradition- fair enough, so when I was in London I once asked someone who supported them what English values, culture and tradition were. He seemed to bring it down to beer and football and roastbeef and stuff. He hadn't really heard of things like the Western Enlightenment... :confused:

This went on to a further discussion about what Islamic values were, and he couldn't really explain them either- a lot of stereotypes and blatantly wrong information.

What makes me laugh is that underneath the superficial "skin-colour" of these groups such as the EDL, BNP and in Italy we have the blackshirted Forza Nuova, is that they hold a lot of values in common with the extreme Islamists if we can talk of them, misogynystic, homophobic, pro-death penalty, "nationalist", authoritarian and generally racist/xenophobic. Ironically the EDL and Muslims Against Crusaders would probably get on very well in policy making once the shallow element of religion were removed, give or take the beer and the bacon sandwiches.

[Widerstand]

Anti-Germans on the left also have a pretty pro-Israel stance, so I don't think it's good to bring in Israel to the discussion.

Anti-Germans quite also often have a strictly Islamophobic stance, so I don't think we should bring them in, either.

[ComradeMan]

Anti-Germans quite also often have a strictly Islamophobic stance, so I don't think we should bring them in, either.

I just don't get Anti-Germans at times, but they are still considered to be on the "left" of the spectrum.... :crying:

[marxist maxime]

best bit is the advert on the side
"jihadi killer"
idiots...:mad:

[Widerstand]

I just don't get Anti-Germans at times, but they are still considered to be on the "left" of the spectrum.... :crying:

That's not 100% correct. There are Anti-Germans that are more to the center and that don't identify as radical/revolutionary leftists, and they aren't a small part either.

[ComradeMan]

That's not 100% correct. There are Anti-Germans that are more to the center and that don't identify as radical/revolutionary leftists, and they aren't a small part either.

Like I said, I don't get them... who they are and what they are about because there seem to be a lot of contradictions. However, in my partial understanding I did think that even the radical/revolutionary leftist ones are pro-Israel?

[Widerstand]

Like I said, I don't get them... who they are and what they are about because there seem to be a lot of contradictions. However, in my partial understanding I did think that even the radical/revolutionary leftist ones are pro-Israel?

Most of the nutjobs (eg. those calling for unconditional support of Israel and sometimes America) aren't revolutionary at all, but rather middle-class and center-left. There are some revolutionary ones not wholly opposed to the Israeli state, but I haven't ever met any not opposed to apartheid and ethnic supremacy.

There aren't that many contradictions, just a lot of moments where your jaw drops over the increasingly absurd positions the Anti-German debate has created in the German scene (raging from unconditional support for the US and all their wars on the Anti-German side to glorification of Osama Bin Laden and unconditional support for the Taliban on the Anti-Imp side).

[Oswy]

My impression of the EDL is that they are an alternative outlet for far-right thugs now that the BNP has spent a lot of time trying to present itself as 'mainstream' in the media. In the 1980s these morons would have been marching around under the BNP or NF banner saying and doing exactly what they're doing now without any problems, but Griffin is at least smart enough to know that even the tiny electoral successes his party has had would be crushed with these people under his wing and on TV. I don't think it's that clear, however, whether or not the EDL are just an arms-length satelite of the BNP or simply enjoy some mutual support, but I think there is at least strong evidence of informal connections. They are both ultra-right and deeply racist in their ideology, so the idea that they wouldn't be connected seems naive. I also get the impression that much of the EDL's 'success' is because it provides an outlet for reactionary soccer thugs who have been mostly alienated by mainstream fans and the clubs (whereas in the past casual racism and organised fights were everywhere in English football that kind of thing has been mostly squeezed out).

From a strategic point of view the existence of the EDL may have a silver lining in that they starkly reconnect the association between far-right politics with violence and intimidation, something which Griffin had managed, at least in the media sense, to place distance between.

[ComradeMan]

Most of the nutjobs (eg. those calling for unconditional support of Israel and sometimes America) aren't revolutionary at all, but rather middle-class and center-left. There are some revolutionary ones not wholly opposed to the Israeli state, but I haven't ever met any not opposed to apartheid and ethnic supremacy.

There aren't that many contradictions, just a lot of moments where your jaw drops over the increasingly absurd positions the Anti-German debate has created in the German scene (raging from unconditional support for the US and all their wars on the Anti-German side to glorification of Osama Bin Laden and unconditional support for the Taliban on the Anti-Imp side).

There are some revolutionary ones not wholly opposed to the Israeli state, but I haven't ever met any not opposed to apartheid and ethnic supremacy.


I suppose it's hard sometimes to know where the lines are. I don't know much about the anti-Germans to be honest, and for the reasons you give what little information I have found is confusing to say the least. :confused:

I suppose when people years ago were campaigning against South Africa and apartheid it was really against the apartheid regimes and the government, not de facto the country. I suppose we should try not to confuse the government and the country as synonyms although I concede that becomes an issue in itself. :confused:

[Che a chara]

This is quite disturbing. This is an email from the EDL and it appears they are gaining sympathy from councils and even football clubs moving their matches to accommodate their blatant Isalmophobic and racist nonsense:


How can a year end so perfectly, Christmas and New year are on the way, and we have our final demo of the year, and its not by any means an average arranged demo.

This time we have been met with open arms, I said in the last memo I wrote about Nuneaton that “I couldn’t help but feel that the establishment and the civil services were starting to feel sincere to our cause�, well now I know that we are gaining support in more areas we needed.

The Edl along with Cambridgeshire police and a bit of help from Peterborough council have achieved a successful demonstration, the council even accepted our plans to shut down one of Peterborough’s busiest city centre’s dual carriageways and its main bridge, they have even moved the
Peterborough united football clubs game from the Saturday to the Friday just to accommodate us, and we thank PUFC for being so facilitating, usually we’d never ask, but our message is urgent.

All coaches are to make their way to Haddon services, junction 17, A1m, Northbound, please get here between 10:30am and midday, you will be marshalled in as you arrive immediately to Peterborough united football club car park, anyone a little late, don’t worry I’ve organised police to stay there until 12:30pm, to facilitate any late comers, from PUFC car park you will be directed in the direction of the public houses.

All cars and minibuses are to make their way to PUFC car park from 10:45am to 11:30am, you will also be directed towards the public houses.

Anyone arriving by train please get to Peterborough train station between 10:30am and no latter than 12:00pm, the police will direct you to the public houses.

Anyone arriving by foot please make your way to the public houses for no earlier than 11:00am and no latter than 12:00pm.

The three public houses that will be available to us on the day are:

The Peacock, London rd, PE2-8AR
The Cherry Tree, Oundle rd, PE2-9PB
Charters, Oundle rd, PE1-1FP

The pubs aren’t right next to each other but only a couple of minutes walk apart, from these public houses we will be making our way to PUFC car park which you will be directed to by our stewards and the police, we will leave the public houses at 12:45pm to start our march at 13:00pm.

We will march into the city centre where our static demonstration will take place in the middle of the shopping district, you will be met by Tony Curtis who will be introducing live music and speakers from the English Defence League, the static part of the demonstration will start at 13:30pm when we arrive, and finish at 15:00pm, we will then march back to PUFC car park where you will be able to board onto your transport to exit Peterborough, anybody arriving by foot or going back to the train station will also be accommodated for.

Its been a great year, we are moving forward quite rapidly, lets end the year the way we will start 2011, by letting them know, Its our streets!!!

No surrender
Guramit Singh

[ComradeMan]

Guramit Singh???

[Che a chara]

Guramit Singh???

Here's an article on him:

http://www.thesamosa.co.uk/index.php/news-and-features/society/210-exclusive-f-the-pakis-meet-the-edls-anti-racist-poster-boy.html

[ComradeMan]

Here's an article on him:

http://www.thesamosa.co.uk/index.php/news-and-features/society/210-exclusive-f-the-pakis-meet-the-edls-anti-racist-poster-boy.html


But...but........ HE'S AN ASIAN SIKH??? IN THE EDL???? AND A LEADER TOO???
:confused:

[Che a chara]

But...but........ HE'S AN ASIAN SIKH??? IN THE EDL???? AND A LEADER TOO???
:confused:

Yeah I know, but as the article suggests, he is a poster-boy for them just like EDL's other Asian mascot Abdul Salaam (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBT9aoeXdWM)

[Milk Sheikh]

But...but........ HE'S AN ASIAN SIKH??? IN THE EDL???? AND A LEADER TOO???
:confused:

Similar to Blacks in the Republican party ... it gives them a facade of neutrality at the very least.

[ComradeMan]

Yeah, but it's not like they forced him to join or anything either.

I take it Sikhs don't get on with Muslims, historically...???? Perhaps????

[Milk Sheikh]

Yeah, but it's not like they forced him to join or anything either.

I take it Sikhs don't get on with Muslims, historically...???? Perhaps????

That's true. Sikhs as well as Hindus hate the Muslims owing to something that happened perhaps 400 years ago. They still resent the Muslims for conquering India (although Islamic rule civilized India like no other), and they want to take it out on innocent Muslims. It's all about mindless hate and revenge.

[Manic Impressive]

Ive read the communist manifesto, Ill give it to them it's freakin genious.

I got a spare copy of the communist manifesto if anyone wants it.
From their forum lol

[ComradeMan]

That's true. Sikhs as well as Hindus hate the Muslims owing to something that happened perhaps 400 years ago. They still resent the Muslims for conquering India (although Islamic rule civilized India like no other), and they want to take it out on innocent Muslims. It's all about mindless hate and revenge.


although Islamic rule civilized India like no other

Isn't that a bit imperialistic? I'm sure the British might say the same? :confused:

India had a civilisation amongst the oldest in the world before the Mughal invasions..? Or are Hindus and others just to be seen as heathen "kuffar"?

[Milk Sheikh]

although Islamic rule civilized India like no other

Isn't that a bit imperialistic? I'm sure the British might say the same? :confused:

India had a civilisation amongst the oldest in the world before the Mughal invasions..? Or are Hindus and others just to be seen as heathen "kuffar"?

No, I am talking about an objective, materialist view of history. So yes, both Islamic and British rule have been rather progressive. Marx himself admitted this, at least regarding the latter. See this bit:

Indian society has no history at all, at least no known history. What we call its history, is but the history of the successive intruders who founded their empires on the passive basis of that unresisting and unchanging society. The question, therefore, is not whether the English had a right to conquer India, but whether we are to prefer India conquered by the Turk, by the Persian, by the Russian, to India conquered by the Briton.
Source:http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1853/07/22.htm

As is evident, India was a non-reforming, stagnant society and was 'civilized' first by the Muslims and then by the British (and to a small extent by Portuguese and French).

[ComradeMan]

As is evident, India was a non-reforming, stagnant society and was 'civilized' first by the Muslims and then by the British (and to a small extent by Portuguese and French).

How do you define civilised? I think that's a slap in the face to 3000 preceding years of Vedic culture(s) and other cultures, all with cities, technology, mathematics, literature, art and so on...

[LiberationFrequency]

I had a friend who joined EDL, lets just say he's no longer a friend.

[balaclava]

On the odd occasion when some news report or other has drawn my attention to the EDL I have never been able to quite get to the bottom of what they’re about. The one thing that consistently runs through the whole story is their insistence that they are not racists and the Left’s insistence that they are. Why is the Left so concerned about a few dozen people who are in no position to threaten or even influence anything. I noticed some time back in the anti-fascist topic area of this forum one of the members here rallying the comrades to join him in the fight against the EDL. I am wondering if a certain faction of the Left NEED a bogeyman to give meaning to their existence. It seems to me that if there are no fascists the anti-fascist movement has no reason to exist so they will label as fascist any football supporter with blond hair just to give their life purpose.

[ComradeMan]

On the odd occasion when some news report or other has drawn my attention to the EDL I have never been able to quite get to the bottom of what they’re about. The one thing that consistently runs through the whole story is their insistence that they are not racists and the Left’s insistence that they are. Why is the Left so concerned about a few dozen people who are in no position to threaten or even influence anything. I noticed some time back in the anti-fascist topic area of this forum one of the members here rallying the comrades to join him in the fight against the EDL. I am wondering if a certain faction of the Left NEED a bogeyman to give meaning to their existence. It seems to me that if there are no fascists the anti-fascist movement has no reason to exist so they will label as fascist any football supporter with blond hair just to give their life purpose.

Do only the left criticise the EDL?

"English Defence League" by its very own name is nationalistic.

a few dozen people who are in no position to threaten or even influence anything

The Nazis started that way too....

Why do you keep reifying this "LEFT" who are you talking about? Which left, who is this mystical left of which you speak? Anyone who is left of you?

[balaclava]

Do only the left criticise the EDL?

who is this mystical left of which you speak? Anyone who is left of you?




Are you stalking me?

The ‘Left’ I am referring to is a group who have hijacked the utopian ideals of the true left to pursue their own needs – the need to fight a demon and where a demon doesn’t exist to identify or create one by labelling anyone who doesn’t subscribe to their narrow views as a fascist.

And, of course NO, it is not only the Left that criticises the EDL. The D in EDL is provocative and open to criticism and I for one do not want to argue for the EDL not least because I don’t know what they are for. If you or anyone else can tell me what they are for or against I’ll tell you whether or not I support their objectives?

[#FF0000]

Why is the Left so concerned about a few dozen people who are in no position to threaten or even influence anything

I think it is abso-goddamn-lutely hilarious that you're talking about anybody else worrying about people with no power to influence anything.

[balaclava]

I think it is abso-goddamn-lutely hilarious that you're talking about anybody else worrying about people with no power to influence anything.

Which group poses the greatest threat?

Group A. Has a membership that can be counted (literally). Has a primary objective of filling in the days when the team isn’t playing at home and secondary random objectives including stopping Tesco selling Hala meat and stopping the implementation of sharia law.

Group B. Can’t be discussed for fear of - at best being described as racist and at worst being killed.

Hmmm - it’s a close call !!

[ComradeMan]

Are you stalking me?

No, I thought I was answering your questions on a discussion forum....


The ‘Left’ I am referring to is a group who have hijacked the utopian ideals of the true left to pursue their own needs – the need to fight a demon and where a demon doesn’t exist to identify or create one by labelling anyone who doesn’t subscribe to their narrow views as a fascist.

But who are they? You can't just use reification like this. You need to give examples, parties, people, comments or incidents. Apply your mathematical logical analsysis to debate, instead of vague references and metaphors accompanied by sweeping generalisations.

You wouldn't accept this mathematically would you?

Something or other = something or other:- ergo something.


And, of course NO, it is not only the Left that criticises the EDL. The D in EDL is provocative and open to criticism and I for one do not want to argue for the EDL not least because I don’t know what they are for. If you or anyone else can tell me what they are for or against I’ll tell you whether or not I support their objectives?

Well- isn't obvious that they appear to be a xenophobic group who have conveniently jumped upon the anti-islamic bandwagon to promote a nationalistic agenda? The fact that Muslims against Crusaders appear to be just as bad in many senses does not exonerate the EDL in my opinion. Th very fact they style themselves "English" within the context of the United Kingdom of England, Scotland, Northern Ireland- plus Wales, Cornwall, the Channel Islands and the other dependencies- many of whom would not describe themselves as English says it all. Why didn't they use the word "British"? Oh wait... someone else has already done that haven't they, and we know who that is too.

[Princess Luna]

Which group poses the greatest threat?

Group A. Has a membership that can be counted (literally). Has a primary objective of filling in the days when the team isn’t playing at home and secondary random objectives including stopping Tesco selling Hala meat and stopping the implementation of sharia law.

Group B. Can’t be discussed for fear of - at best being described as racist and at worst being killed.

Hmmm - it’s a close call !!
you forgot the fact Group A is made up of xenophobic assholes , and all it takes is a bunch of them getting drunk one night and deciding it would be fun to bash some muslim's head in............

[#FF0000]

Which group poses the greatest threat?

Group A. Has a membership that can be counted (literally). Has a primary objective of filling in the days when the team isn’t playing at home and secondary random objectives including stopping Tesco selling Hala meat and stopping the implementation of sharia law.

Group B. Can’t be discussed for fear of - at best being described as racist and at worst being killed.

Hmmm - it’s a close call !!

Except that xenophobic and bigoted attitudes against Group B are widespread and almost tolerated and people in group B have things like this happen to them a lot.

TxdTEVzzr_s

Also it isn't just EDL members who are xenophobic. Lots of people can have xenophobic and bigoted views and not be in the EDL. Many are.


Also, who has been killed for discussing Muslims in England?

And one more thing, if you discuss "The Muslims" as if they are one homogeneous group with a shared consciousness or something, then yeah you're probably a racist. Soz.

[balaclava]

But who are they?.

What is the name of Left group about whom I speak?

If you are asking me for a name I don’t know, I know they exist but I am still on a steep learning curve with the Left. If they have a name that identifies them as sub group you should be able to tell me what it is.

I am forming the view that the members of this forum who join under the banner of the Revolutionary Left are a number of groups and sub groups who have different beliefs about what is wrong and what would make it right and the only common denominator is a belief that those in power (with the power to make decisions which affect our lives) are making the wrong decisions and that they should be ousted and replaced. After that, I suspect that the differences from one end of the spectrum to the next is extreme. It seems to me that at one end you have the purists who have studied Marx, Engles, Trosky etc., and who have spent a lot of time in deep meaningful thought about which model is the right model. I am in awe of this group and much respect their commitment and learning. I would like to read up on all that stuff and engage them in deep meaningful debate but for me it’s like reading the telephone directory. I hope during my time here some of their learning will leach its way across to me and make me a wiser person. At the other end are the lost and confused who struggle to answer the call of testosterone to find the fight. Having failed to achieve anything meaningful in their lives they search for something to give it meaning. A few years back they’d gather round the campfire outside Aldermaston smoking pot and singing the Red Flag, later on the progressed to digging up the grave of some guy’s grandmother because he used animals to try and find a cure for cancer. They are angry and dismissive of anyone who has an alternative view labelling them all racist fascists. They are the left I speak of – what are they called? (As further clues to their identity I can tell that that they probably have acne, are vegetarian or vegan, are unemployed, worry about climate change, have never had a girlfriend for more than a week, have never had sex with another person (a real live person) and probably live with their parents.)

[ComradeMan]

What is the name of Left group about whom I speak?
If you are asking me for a name I don’t know, I know they exist but I am still on a steep learning curve with the Left. If they have a name that identifies them as sub group you should be able to tell me what it is.
So you don't know who they are but you know who they are, at least enough for you to speak about "them" in such broad terms? :thumbup:

I am forming the view that the members of this forum who join under the banner of the Revolutionary Left are a number of groups and sub groups who have different beliefs about what is wrong and what would make it right and the only common denominator is a belief that those in power (with the power to make decisions which affect our lives) are making the wrong decisions and that they should be ousted and replaced.

Yeah... that's about it.



After that, I suspect that the differences from one end of the spectrum to the next is extreme. It seems to me that at one end you have the purists who have studied Marx, Engles, Trosky etc., and who have spent a lot of time in deep meaningful thought about which model is the right model.

Trotsky? Oh no..............................!!! If you knew your Engels you'd know that an ounce of action is worth a tonne of theory.


I am in awe of this group and much respect their commitment and learning. I would like to read up on all that stuff and engage them in deep meaningful debate but for me it’s like reading the telephone directory. I hope during my time here some of their learning will leach its way across to me and make me a wiser person. At the other end are the lost and confused who struggle to answer the call of testosterone to find the fight. Having failed to achieve anything meaningful in their lives they search for something to give it meaning. A few years back they’d gather round the campfire outside Aldermaston smoking pot and singing the Red Flag, later on the progressed to digging up the grave of some guy’s grandmother because he used animals to try and find a cure for cancer.
More unsubstantiated generalisations at the end, or is it British humour? :( Benny Hill? These animal rights extremists, anarcho-primitivists are restricted here. But let's not get into that.



They are angry and dismissive of anyone who has an alternative view labelling them all racist fascists. They are the left I speak of – what are they called? (As further clues to their identity I can tell that that they probably have acne, are vegetarian or vegan, are unemployed, worry about climate change, have never had a girlfriend for more than a week, have never had sex with another person (a real live person) and probably live with their parents.)

Politics is rough... if you don't like the heat get out of the kitchen- but building circumstancial ad hominems and ad hominems per se from the realms of your pure fantasy is not helpful to debate.

What I get from this is you're turing into a Trotskyite! :lol:

[balaclava]

Also, who has been killed for discussing Muslims in England?


OK you got me there, so far as I know, nobody has been killed in England for criticising Islam but tell that to Salman Rushdie and ask him if he feels safe. And then there’s the examples from our neighbours - Theo van Gogh, Kurt Westergaard , Ehsan Jami

[ComradeMan]

OK you got me there, so far as I know, nobody has been killed in England for criticising Islam but tell that to Salman Rushdie and ask him if he feels safe. And then there’s the examples from our neighbours - Theo van Gogh, Kurt Westergaard , Ehsan Jami

Nearly a good point but you missed one thing. Who was it who attacked the people you name? Was it all Muslims? Or was it some groups of fanatics on a parallel to those in the US who want to burn Qu'rans?

This reminds me of Anne Frank's comment, when a Christian does something then he is blamed, when a Jew does something all Jews are blamed....

[balaclava]

[QUOTE=ComradeMan;1952003]Nearly a good point Was it all Muslims? Or was it some groups of fanatics on a parallel to those in the US who want to burn Qu'rans?
QUOTE]

What are you talking about? The guy you are talking about in the US who said he would burn the Qu’ran was/is a Christian; the guy who issued the Fatwa against Rushdie was/is a Muslim - fact. Fanatical Christian, fanatical Muslim who are the most fanatical or who has the most fanatics, we could argue about. The question is – if you had to put your money on a bet what would it be on - if I said that a Christian preacher in the US had issued a decree that I be killed and a Muslim Imman in Dar al Islam had issued a Fatwa that I should be killed which would one be more likely to succeed, where would your bet be and why?

[balaclava]

xenophobic

Xenophobia and racism is wrong on every level.

What brings a smile to my lips is the Left’s support for Islam which is not just de facto a racist ideology but top of their list of who they will fry in hell is the ‘Left’ (Islam regards you all as Pagans and thus top of the list for elimination). When Sharia law comes in they will hunt you down and behead you.

[#FF0000]

Xenophobia and racism is wrong on every level.

What brings a smile to my lips is the Left’s support for Islam which is not just de facto a racist ideology but top of their list of who they will fry in hell is the ‘Left’ (Islam regards you all as Pagans and thus top of the list for elimination). When Sharia law comes in they will hunt you down and behead you.

Not every muslim wants to implement Sharia Law. I remember actually asking a friend of mine, who is the son of immigrants from Egypt, and who is a Muslim, about Sharia law.

I said "Do all Muslims follow or want to implement Sharia Law".

He laughed and said "What the fuck is this, Saudi Arabia?"

Then he went to pray or something.

And what's this about Islam being a "de facto racist" ideology?

[balaclava]

Not every Muslim wants to implement Sharia Law.

The problem is, they are the one’s keeping their mouths shut when their mates are screaming for its implementation.


And what's this about Islam being a "de facto racist" ideology?

I’d love to explain all this again but I’ll get accused of something – for answers read through my posts in the thread - ‘Islam is a Fascist Ideology’

[#FF0000]

The problem is, they are the one’s keeping their mouths shut when their mates are screaming for its implementation.

How would you know? It's not as if there's some radio station (WSLM - ALL ISLAM ALL THE TIME) or something where muslims can go and say "For the record, we don't support Sharia Law".

I mean, I really don't understand this "but moderate muslims aren't saying anything!"

How the hell would you know?


I’d love to explain all this again but I’ll get accused of something – for answers read through my posts in the thread - ‘Islam is a Fascist Ideology’

Oh, don't worry. We all think you're a stupid bigot already.

And I don't think an explanation is really important actually, because it wouldn't surprise me if you could find something that could be interpreted at racist or xenophobic or something like that in the Koran or in Islam.

Because you can find something like that in every Abrahamic religion.

In Christianity, the Bible says you can keep slaves so long as they're from another country. Judaism's exclusivity could be taken as bigotry, as well, I guess.

But, here's the thing. Racism can be tackled separately from religion. You don't need to get rid of Islam to get rid of whatever racist component you see in it. It's not as if Christians today think slavery is a-okay, after all.

[Che a chara]

Islamophobia and turd-fest on BBC Newsnight with EDL 'leader' Tommy Robinson the other night:

CFyO9s07Jgs

[#FF0000]

WE ARE AGAINST ISLAM IN IT'S 7TH CENTURY, BARBARIC FORM

*ignores the fact that "militant islam" is based on an 18th century thinker*

[hatzel]

Always love Paxman. Totally ripping that guy to shreds, as always...

[#FF0000]

It really is a thing of beauty.

[hatzel]

And to think...he hardly even needs to say anything! Still, well and truly told...:tt1:

It's the beautiful girls in burqas that really grinds my gears...GRR!!!

[Tommy4ever]

That was a really dumb thread and an even more stupid article.

I thought the EDL was pro-Zionist due to their hatred of Muslims? They spent quite a long time in that thread talking about Jewish conspiracies. :blink:

[hatzel]

I thought the EDL was pro-Zionist due to their hatred of Muslims? They spent quite a long time in that thread talking about Jewish conspiracies. :blink:

You call them conspiracies, we call them empirical facts. Want some proof? Sure!

http://web.grinnell.edu/courses/his/f04/his238-01/Images/ASPECTSOFGERMANHISTORY/images/1942.jpg


Look at that evidence. Silly you for doubting the Jews' work, Thomas...

(By the way: :rolleyes:)

[Rooster]

44kZsmByhWA

It's amazing how he starts ranting like a lunatic at the end.

[hatzel]

What else would you expect from him? The inams [sic] are all foreigners, Islam is evil! Serious eejit...

[Tommy4ever]

@ rooster:

George actually kicked ass in that interview. :D I remember readying the EDL thread here and being embarassed by the way the revleft members argued with the EDL guys. :(

[#FF0000]

44kZsmByhWA

It's amazing how he starts ranting like a lunatic at the end.

It is really, really hard for me to not like George Galloway sometimes.