Bud Struggle you do not understand capitalism and why Communism came about

[spice756]

I'm not laughing. But from the look of things it's hard to take your comments seriously.

I just think that "union", "labor against managment" way of looking at things has ended.

Gack--you are living in the '30s. We've moved on.

It's like Mari3L's "people are going to rise up in the streets" anthum (though not as rediculous.) The trends just aren't goin iin that direction.

Time to think up a new Communism. The old one's are spent.


Well yes unions are dead so is all revolution /Communism and left movements but it is more conplex than that.

The free-market lead to communism and unions to deel with the problems.The capitalist made the middle class after ww2 and establishment of social programs to keep people happy and communism and unions dead.

The middle class is almost all gone now in the US and social programs almost all gone around world now.Just look at Unversal heathcare and welfare in Canada and Europe now it is a joke.It will not be long before the middle class is starting to be removed in Canada too , but will not happen to the baby boomers are out of the work force and social programs removed all the way more than is now .The way things are going Canada will have private healthcare so my take after the baby boomers are out of the work force there will be law past to put in full action.

The G-8 and G-20 are all planning this it all part of the free trade controlled by the elite.There very little controlled market now .

We are reverting back.Remember the collapse of communism in 1989 and unions dead in late 80's .And all this height of globization started in 90's to now the G-8 stuff , free trade at such a right time and I say again at such a right time ? The social programs getting cuts in the 90's and worse in late 90's .It all part of the plan .Yes the liberals and conservatives are hard at work they will cut all social programs after the boomers are out of the work force they are doing it now it well on the way.

The free-market is well on the way .If there is class consciousness at that time is hard to say if people will leav the house and hit the streets again .But again when the baby boomers are out of the work force the elite will slash the middle class like it did in US in the late 80's.

[Tablo]

I would like to point out there is no such thing as "middle class". The middle class historically refers to the bourgeoisie while the aristocracy were still in charge. Our society is now made up of the proletariat and the bourgeoisie.

[RGacky3]

Our society is now made up of the proletariat and the bourgeoisie.

Things are a little more complicated now. The traditional bourgeoisie have taken a back seat to the financeers and the bankers. Its still ruling class and working class though.

[RGacky3]

Also the ruling class has been able to seperate control and ownership through corporations, i.e. putting the ownership (risk) to someone else, while keeping the contro (profit).

As far as Bud saying unions are out dated, its just him saying stuff, he does'nt explain how or why they are no longer effective, how or why capitalism has out grown them, unions in the US have been making a major comeback and worldwide have been growing too, so relaly Bud is just saying stuff out of his ass.

Capitalism is on its way out, this is becoming more and more evident, also I'd just like to gloat about another thing that socialists were 100% right on.

Many status quo capitalists (which is exactly what Bud is), kept saying "oh the markets go up and down, no big deal, boom and bust and so on and so forth," Where as Socialists were saying something more is happening, and clearly, this is much much bigger than just a boom and bust and a bear market. This was'nt just a bubble bursting, this was a derivatives market that was many times the size of the worlds GDP, crashing everything from food prices to housing to entire countries.

BTW, watch the Chineese property market plummet in the next year, I called it first on revleft, huge property bubble.

What we are seeing the the US heading towards great depression territory, massiave unemployment, and extreme class warfare.

[Bud Struggle]

Union membership in the US workforce in non government jobs is about 7.5%.

If you want to call that HUGE. Well that's up to you.

[Revolution starts with U]

I would have to see a citation for that. It seems a little low.

[Tablo]

Things are a little more complicated now. The traditional bourgeoisie have taken a back seat to the financeers and the bankers. Its still ruling class and working class though.
Both of those are still members of the bourgeoisie as they still own workplaces that exploit the proletariat.

Bankers still have employees.
Even those with no official job and spend their time trading stocks are still members of the petite-bourgeoisie.

[RGacky3]

Bankers still have employees.
Even those with no official job and spend their time trading stocks are still members of the petite-bourgeoisie.

I doubt hedgefunders, people who make and break economies could be called petite bourgeoisie, btw, everyone that works in a corporation is an "empoyee" officially. The bankers and traders relationship to production is much different than capitalist / proletariate nowerdays.

[Ele'ill]

Union membership in the US workforce in non government jobs is about 7.5%.

If you want to call that HUGE. Well that's up to you.


I have heard that number before and I'd like to throw out another figure- 4.5 million people in the united states work in a retail customer service position and very few of them have the ability to unionize- work place organizing will get you fired quicker than hitting a customer.

I am going to double check both of those stats right now. Yes, it was 4.5 million not 4.9 million
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos121.htm

I'm still looking for the 7.5% data- I had trouble finding it the last time too.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm

[Bud Struggle]

Well I certainly don't know how this thread came about and how I already have a post in it when this is the first time I saw it.

But no matter. Some Socialist efficiency, no doubt. Be back at you when I'm sober--3 Martini lunch going on here. :)

[Ele'ill]

Well I certainly don't know how this thread came about and how I already have a post in it when this is the first time I saw it.

But no matter. Some Socialist efficiency, no doubt. Be back at you when I'm sober--3 Martini lunch going on here. :)

But what did you have to eat?

[Lord Testicles]

But what did you have to eat?

The olives in the martinis, I assume.

[spice756]

I would like to point out there is no such thing as "middle class". The middle class historically refers to the bourgeoisie while the aristocracy were still in charge. Our society is now made up of the proletariat and the bourgeoisie.


This is the most stupidest thing I have ever read.Please go to school and take economics.The conditions before 50's was shit living .

Read suburb boom of 50's and 60's the increase wage after ww2.You a disgrace for the poor and low income that cannot live in a house, have car ,have big LCD or plasma TV , smoke pot every weak ,have clothes that will fit in more than one suitcase.

Live the low income life for one month just one month you hate it:confused:pay check to pay check and pay rent and too poor to get a house mortgage or car loan.No money to get a nice new plasma TV ,no money to get new clothes that will fit in 3 or 4 suitcase.

I want you to separate belief and study economics.

I'm not going spoon feed you but here is a start.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_income

http://www12.statcan.ca/census-recensement/2006/dp-pd/hlt/97-563/T801-eng.cfm?Lang=E&T=801&GH=4&SC=1&SO=99&O=A

It is crazy to think people are just rich and poor and no hierarchy of income.I mean if you posted this in economic message board they would laugh at you.

I want to make sure that does not happen.It is way more conplex than just working class dirt poor and captalist and rich .There is a hierarchy of income and middle class.

Please see the movie capitalism love story the part where there was massive unemployment and Clinton made lots and lots of jobs and became a god but was fraud all low pay jobs and Clinton accelerated NAFTA and free trade. oh my Clinton was a work of art part of the elite for capitalist.

Now to this day people still look and say he never fixed the unemployment problem and what jobs there is he made well it is dirt pay .Put it other way US is going in bad way.

--
Poverty in the United States is cyclical in nature with roughly 13 to 17% of Americans (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/People_of_the_United_States) living below the federal poverty line (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Poverty_threshold) at any given point in time, and roughly 40% falling below the poverty line at some point within a 10-year time span. Poverty (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Poverty) is defined as the state of one who lacks a usual or socially acceptable amount of money or material possessions.[1] (http://www.revleft.com/vb/#cite_note-0)
However, the government's definition of poverty is not tied to an absolute value of how much an individual or family can afford, but is tied to a relative level (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Relative_poverty) based on how much the average individual makes. Most Americans (58.5%) will spend at least one year below the poverty line at some point between ages 25 and 75.[2] (http://www.revleft.com/vb/#cite_note-Hacker-1) There remains some controversy over whether the official poverty threshold over- or understates poverty.
The most common measure of poverty in the United States (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/United_States) is the "poverty threshold (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Poverty_thresholds_(United_States_Census_Bureau))" set by the U.S. government (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Federal_government_of_the_United_States). This measure recognizes poverty as a lack of those goods and services commonly taken for granted by members of mainstream society.[3] (http://www.revleft.com/vb/#cite_note-Schwartz-2) The official threshold is adjusted for inflation (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Inflation) using the consumer price index (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/Consumer_price_index).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States


Note I'm just saying with the collapse of communism there is no fear in the capitalist so they are going to keep cutting wages and no fear among the government that people are going rebel capitalism so social programs will be cut to the point of having none.

That is how the game is played with capitalism .The working class always have to keep finding for better wages and benefits and hit the streets and protest for more government social programs.

The media and government will use propaganda that the free-market works ,social programs are bad ,private sector does better than government so on and so on.

And it sad but many people belief that.