Things Tea Partiers Say

[Pierre.Laporte]

I felt compelled to share this among all the other countless absurdities we hear in Tea Party cconomics.

youtube.com/watch?v=KkXI-MNSb8Q

I guess wealth is just plucked out of thin air, and all those timber industries, petroleum companies, mineral companies, they're all doing it wrong. Surely, wealth is in no way related to the resources that we've been extracting out of the earth for hundreds of years.

Summed up I think this video is best described as "OMG Someone made an iPhone and made tons of money off of it all of a sudden, capitalism is magic!"

[RGacky3]

HAHAAHAHAH, I love this, "wealth can be created from thin air," think about that for a second, well, I'm sure all the hedgefunders and banksters are laughing their ass of watching that too.

[Property Is Robbery]

I've never seen such a good anti-capitalist argument before :thumbup1:

[Dimentio]

I don't think Bill Whittle is stupid. I think he - like Glenn Beck - is a clever propagandist.

[Revolution starts with U]

Things tea partiers say?
"She's got a sing, stomp her!" :thumbup1:

[Pierre.Laporte]

I don't think Bill Whittle is stupid. I think he - like Glenn Beck - is a clever propagandist.

On the note of Glenn Beck, I think he's a moderate Republican playing the bat-shit-crazy Republican on TV to milk a cash cow. He's a self described "rodeo clown" thinks "you'd have to be stupid not to believe in global warming" and "if anyone takes his stuff as gospel, they're an idiot." I mean, could he REALLY believe that there was going to be a civil war in the year 2009 between the government and an uprising of hillbillies in the Appalachians? (true quote from the one, and only time I ever watched the Glenn Beck show)

And that's a good point. I think speakers like Bill Whittle are what's keeping the facade of the "American dream" alive. Capitalism is all fine and dandy and you can wake up at the top one day, you just have to tend the machines long enough and one day you'll stumble into owning the machines.

At least in Europe they've called out the pipe dream somewhat.

[MMIKEYJ]

I dont know who Bill wittle is.. but hes correct. I think you guys are being a little too literal when he says wealth is created out of thin air. Wealth is created by ideas put into a plan of action and stuck to. Thats basically it. I know it works because Ive done it.

[RGacky3]

Wealth is created by ideas put into a plan of action and stuck to. Thats basically it. I know it works because Ive done it.

Money can be made that way, not you need more of it to create actual solid wealth. Hell I can buy eggs paint them pretty and resell them double, the idea did'nt CREATE the wealth, painting them "created" the wealth.

What your talking about is just libertarian idealism, not actual economics.

[Pierre.Laporte]

Another farce I couldn't believe was how he discredited the US's accusations of taking advantage of the third world. Simply taking the GDP and comparing them to the United States doesn't really show much. At least in terms of how the US has abused third world countries.

The GDP isn't going to show how an American industry lays off workers, and then re-hires the labor in the third world and compensates at one-hundredth of what they used to pay. It doesn't take into account the countless wars and coups that the US has staged to secure American business interests, from oil for American energy companies or stopping a domino effects of democratic countries of opposing American foreign policy and corporate agendas (the realistic domino effect, and not the humorous public version). Without a doubt taking an untold and sickening number of lives.

If anything the GDP shows how effective the US has been in its multi-front war against the third world. Not how lazy and ineffective the third world is, which is implied.

[MMIKEYJ]

Money can be made that way, not you need more of it to create actual solid wealth. Hell I can buy eggs paint them pretty and resell them double, the idea did'nt CREATE the wealth, painting them "created" the wealth.

What your talking about is just libertarian idealism, not actual economics.
Yes but the mere painting of them wont create wealth.. There has to be a whole plan of action behind it, and it has to be carried out..painting, selling, buying, material expenses, etc.

There was a little kid like 8 years old who took rocks and painted them and sold them.. the kid became a millionaire.. Im not kidding.. kid wasnt even 10 and made a million bucks.

I wouldnt know the first thing of how to paint rocks and sell them to make a million dollars.. but that little 8 year old kid sure knew. I could learn a few things.. and I conjecture you probably could too.

Liberty and the creativity unleashed that goes along with liberty is the engine of milk and honey.

This is also the fallacy of communism IMO, it levels out the playing field and removes everyones' incentive to better themselves.

[Dimentio]

I dont know who Bill wittle is.. but hes correct. I think you guys are being a little too literal when he says wealth is created out of thin air. Wealth is created by ideas put into a plan of action and stuck to. Thats basically it. I know it works because Ive done it.

Wealth is a subjective notion. Resources are a better term. And no, they aren't created out of thin air (not until we have nanobots of energy which could turn air into water or gold), but could be made more efficient by transforming them through labour. The key is how to get the resources.

[Revolution starts with U]

Mikey, I have one word in response to "communism destroys incentive."

Sputnik (and the USSR wasn't even really communism in any of the words original intentions)

[Jalapeno Enema]

. . .painting eggs or rocks or whatever does not "create" wealth (or resources, capital, whatever you want to call it). You took multiple items, combined them, added a little labor, and created a new product.

That new product had a demand (heaven knows why those examples would) that convinced other people to part with a little bit of their wealth in order to obtain; the wealth was always there, but not in your pocket; you're trading for other people's wealth.

The 17th century Dutch tulip trade is now seen as a humorous, but then very serious and real. You have a product, it's worth something. If the value becomes sufficiently inflated, people use their wealth to obtain it. After enough people sell their homes, spend their money, and then prices stabilize, the economic backlash can be debilitating.

[RGacky3]

Yes but the mere painting of them wont create wealth.. There has to be a whole plan of action behind it, and it has to be carried out..painting, selling, buying, material expenses, etc.


I have tons of ideas, unless I have the resrouces and the labor to impliment them no wealth will be created.


This is also the fallacy of communism IMO, it levels out the playing field and removes everyones' incentive to better themselves.

No it does'nt, the incentive to better yourself is to be better.

[Bud Struggle]

I have tons of ideas, unless I have the resrouces and the labor to impliment them no wealth will be created.


And Capitalism in it's wisdom has seen your problem in advance RGacky3 and has already solved it.

If you have a good idea and no money there is venture capital out there to help you along. The stock market is the compilation of all the wealth created by people with no money and a great idea being financed by people with money.

[#FF0000]

I guess that justifies the incredible imbalance of power between people who own and control vast amounts of capital and people who don't and never had the opportunity.

[Bud Struggle]

I guess that justifies the incredible imbalance of power between people who own and control vast amounts of capital and people who don't and never had the opportunity.

The point I was making to Gack--is that if you have the IDEA, you have the opportunity. The stock market is an example of how people invest in good ideas.

[RGacky3]

And Capitalism in it's wisdom has seen your problem in advance RGacky3 and has already solved it.

If you have a good idea and no money there is venture capital out there to help you along. The stock market is the compilation of all the wealth created by people with no money and a great idea being financed by people with money.

Whether or not I have marketable ideas is'nt what we are talking about, the point is where wealth comes from.

[Bud Struggle]

Whether or not I have marketable ideas is'nt the point, the point is where wealth comes from.

NO! If you had a good idea you could get it marketed. That is exactly what the point is.

[RGacky3]

Bud, fine, that may or may not be the case, but I'm not interested in that in this thread (make a new one about it), I'm interested in what creates wealth.

[Bud Struggle]

Bud, fine, that may or may not be the case, but I'm not interested in that in this thread (make a new one about it), I'm interested in what creates wealth.

And I GAVE you the answer:

You have an idea. Somebody invests $100. The idea is marketable and you earn $1000. You give $500 to your investor and you keep $500. Some other guy comes along with an idea and you invest $100.....and it just goes on and on.

That's how wealth is created.

[RGacky3]

You have an idea. Somebody invests $100. The idea is marketable and you earn $1000. You give $500 to your investor and you keep $500. Some other guy comes along with an idea and you invest $100.....and it just goes on and on.


Your idea did'nt create the wealth, the investment paid for things and people that created the wealth, are ideas needed to create wealth? Yeah, but they don't create wealth, its like saying teamwork creates wealth, its an absurd notion.

[Jalapeno Enema]

And I GAVE you the answer:

You have an idea. Somebody invests $100. The idea is marketable and you earn $1000. You give $500 to your investor and you keep $500. Some other guy comes along with an idea and you invest $100.....and it just goes on and on.

That's how wealth is created.
. . .sigh. . .
I'll try one more time.

You didn't "create" $900. You sold stuff (or services) to people, who paid a total of $900.

Wealth, like mass cannot be created/destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space (or change hands), and changed into different types of particles (different currencies, investments, commodities, etc.).

[Dimentio]

And I GAVE you the answer:

You have an idea. Somebody invests $100. The idea is marketable and you earn $1000. You give $500 to your investor and you keep $500. Some other guy comes along with an idea and you invest $100.....and it just goes on and on.

That's how wealth is created.

And if you and 200 other people are on an island with no resources?

[Dimentio]

And Capitalism in it's wisdom has seen your problem in advance RGacky3 and has already solved it.

If you have a good idea and no money there is venture capital out there to help you along. The stock market is the compilation of all the wealth created by people with no money and a great idea being financed by people with money.

No thanks. If I would start a business, I would basically try to minimise my expenses and only eat dry cookies and drink water, like Onassis. I view venture capitalists (as any capitalists and bankers) as predators.

[Bud Struggle]

Your idea did'nt create the wealth, the investment paid for things and people that created the wealth, are ideas needed to create wealth? Yeah, but they don't create wealth, its like saying teamwork creates wealth, its an absurd notion.

I guess that's the essential difference between Capitalism and Communism. With Capitalists--it's the idea and the people are incidental. With Communism it's the people and the idea is incidental.

There is actually no "true" answer, no provable fact, there is only what you believe.


No thanks. If I would start a business, I would basically try to minimise my expenses and only eat dry cookies and drink water, like Onassis. I view venture capitalists (as any capitalists and bankers) as predators. What that does is slow growth. That's no problem in something like the Real Estate business--where the land will always be there. But in something like the technology business where ideas and come and go in an instant--venture capital is essential.

[RGacky3]

With Capitalists--it's the idea and the people are incidental. With Communism it's the people and the idea is incidental.

There is actually no "true" answer, no provable fact, there is only what you believe.


Its a matter of definition of wealth, the problem is with Capitalist the definition has flown in its face, for example, do bankers create wealth? According to the capitalist definition they do, even though its clearly not the case.

No one is saying that creativity and ideas are not important, they are really important, however they are not the actual things that create value, they aid in its creation, but by themself they have no value, its just an idea, just like the concept of teamwork.

[Revolution starts with U]

The capitalist argument is trying to tie investment with actual creation. But investment can come from anywhere. It is just as valid to say that governments create wealth, using their argument. Governments move money throught the market constantly, they are the biggest investors in R&D.

[MMIKEYJ]

Mikey, I have one word in response to "communism destroys incentive."

Sputnik (and the USSR wasn't even really communism in any of the words original intentions)

I think most of the early Soviet success in space came from captured Nazi scientists.

[Revolution starts with U]

So did ours :thumbup1:

[La Comédie Noire]

Imagine how many more great ideas people would have if everyone had a fair shot. It would definitely increase the odds in our favor.