Spain elections

[Delenda Carthago]

Can someone inform us about the elections results?Did the revolutionary left got any bigger and if so, in which areas?

[DDR]

The elections were only in Catalonia. And no good left is in the Catalonian Parlament. The results are here: http://resultados.elpais.com/elecciones/2010/catalanas/09/ in spanish, sorry.

[syndicat]

the left lost control of the regional parliament of Catalonia. they lost 32 seats. the 3 left parties that lost seats: Socialist Party (down 9), Esquerra (social democratic Catalan nationalists, lost half their seats), Izquierda Unida (coalition in which Communists are dominant, also lost seats). the biggest winner was Convergence & Union, a conventional pro-business Catalan nationalist party. they are 6 votes shy of a majority. the Popular Party (ex-fascists, the main national conservative party) also won a large bloc. so the right will now control the government.

[Delenda Carthago]

the left lost control of the regional parliament of Catalonia. they lost 32 seats. the 3 left parties that lost seats: Socialist Party (down 9), Esquerra (social democratic Catalan nationalists, lost half their seats), Izquierda Unida (coalition in which Communists are dominant, also lost seats). the biggest winner was Convergence & Union, a conventional pro-business Catalan nationalist party. they are 6 votes shy of a majority. the Popular Party (ex-fascists, the main national conservative party) also won a large bloc. so the right will now control the government.
I really dont care about the social democrats, but what the hell happened to the IU?And how come the PP took so much power,I thought it was kinda bankrupted.Please explain.

[DDR]

Well IU is as socio democrat as it can be. IU ist just a coalition of greens and social democrats and the PCE (who isn't communist since the transition). The 2 main left candidatures were des de baix (or something like that, I cannot speak catalonian, sorry) and the PCPC.

The good thing is that the xenophobe of Anglada didn't make it, not for too much but still good news.

Anf the PP rise up because they had in catalonia a very big anti inmigration speach, very populistic.

[Delenda Carthago]

Well IU is as socio democrat as it can be. IU ist just a coalition of greens and social democrats and the PCE (who isn't communist since the transition). The 2 main left candidatures were des de baix (or something like that, I cannot speak catalonian, sorry) and the PCPC.

The good thing is that the xenophobe of Anglada didn't make it, not for too much but still good news.

Anf the PP rise up because they had in catalonia a very big anti inmigration speach, very populistic.
So,there is no big revolutionary forces in Catalonia?

[DDR]

Des de Baix somehow, the PCPC (comunist party of the catalonian people), las CUP (but they only make candidatures for the municipal elections, mayors and stuff like that), Maulets (a leftist indepence youth).

I guess those are the main parties, coalitions, and political revolutionary forces.

In whole Spain the things are the same. No revolutionry forces whatsoever.

[Delenda Carthago]

Des de Baix somehow, the PCPC (comunist party of the catalonian people), las CUP (but they only make candidatures for the municipal elections, mayors and stuff like that), Maulets (a leftist indepence youth).

I guess those are the main parties, coalitions, and political revolutionary forces.

In whole Spain the things are the same. No revolutionry forces whatsoever.
how big these are?and what about CGT and CNT?

[DDR]

Not really very big at all.

CGT and CNT are just trade unions, this is no more 1934.

[Delenda Carthago]

Not really very big at all.

CGT and CNT are just trade unions, this is no more 1934.
Yes, I know this is not 1934, but you know... Yo sono uno anarchosyndicalista! E mi syndicato es mucho en de anarchosyndicalismo a las Espana(:lol:i know this is so messed up!my spanish suck big time,i just wanted to try!).

Anyway,what I want to say is this: trade unions or not, as far as I know,they represent something radical,no?Specially CNT(even though they remain very "purristas")they are a large and important part of the workers movement in Spain.Matter of fact,I think CGT represents something like 2.000.000 workers in Spain. So, a big union to claim anarchosyndicalist and revolution it is something important,aint it?

[DDR]

No sorry, right now CNT nor CGT (nor SAT, nor LAB, not any other) cant do a thing without CCOO and UGT. They're no big, sorry, but leftism in Spain is very dead right now, and sorry for sounding pesimistic but it's the way I feel things are going in Spain.

Anyhow where you hve the number of afiliated to CCOO UGT CNT and CGT, by wikipedia:

CCOO: 1.203.000 (8 de octubre de 2010)
UGT: 888.414 (marzo 2005 (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005))
CNT: 10.000-[2] (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederaci%C3%B3n_Nacional_del_Trabajo#cite_note-diagonal10000-1) -50.000[3 (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederaci%C3%B3n_Nacional_del_Trabajo#cite_note-teacuerdas-2)
CGT: 60.000

[syndicat]

actually i've heard that CCOO has dropped to around the same membership as UGT in the last few years. the CGT can sometimes win things in some situations, as in 2006 on the transit system in Barcelona, in an alliance with ACTUB (an independent bus drivers union), which carried out a successful series of strikes against the UGT and CCOO. more recently CGT carried out a strike on AVE (high speed train line). the CGT does continuous mobilizations against austerity being imposed on the working class in Spain as elsewhere. but they are still a minority union. UGT and CCOO work closely together, in a pact, and have become typical bureaucratic business unions. anarcho-syndicalism is still marginalized at present.

[Delenda Carthago]

No sorry, right now CNT nor CGT (nor SAT, nor LAB, not any other) cant do a thing without CCOO and UGT. They're no big, sorry, but leftism in Spain is very dead right now, and sorry for sounding pesimistic but it's the way I feel things are going in Spain.

Anyhow where you hve the number of afiliated to CCOO UGT CNT and CGT, by wikipedia:

CCOO: 1.203.000 (8 de octubre de 2010)
UGT: 888.414 (marzo 2005 (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005))
CNT: 10.000-[2] (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederaci%C3%B3n_Nacional_del_Trabajo#cite_note-diagonal10000-1) -50.000[3 (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederaci%C3%B3n_Nacional_del_Trabajo#cite_note-teacuerdas-2)
CGT: 60.000
So you are telling me that in a country where the stalinist union has 1 million members,the other leftist union has another, the anarchosyndicalists have like 100.000 members(them three together) has no leftism at all?:confused:

[DDR]

CCOO is not stalinist, nor even marxist, hell not even leftist

And UGT is a branch of the PSOE which also isn't leftist.

CCOO and UGT are no way leftist, no in this time, nor in this universe.

[syndicat]

the PSOE's politics are neo-liberal. i get the impression from many comments by workers online that the UGT is something like a company union...it seems almost unwilling to fight at all. CCOO is only sometimes willing to break with UGT. on contract ratifications CCOO at times signs sellout contracts behind the backs of the workers, without invoking a mass assembly. on the bargaining committees the CGT often is a lone dissent, voting "no". from an American point of view, UGT-CCOO may appear more to the "left" because of their rhetoric and their willingness to occasionally call a symbolic national general strike. but the bureaucrats are forced to do this to maintain legitimacy. it is true that working class public opinion is to left of opinion in USA and most other western European countries. but the CCOO-UGT are lacking in militancy, and there is no mass revolutionary party.