Absurdity Of Religeon and pacifying the religeous.

[Homage To Catalonia]

Why do so many Marxists seem to have this respect for religeous beliefs, it really is crazy.

As a Maoist, I am not some liberal islamophobe, or a middle class Anarkiddy, who likes to shock his new age christian parents by dropping gems about catholic priests, however, i find the Respectability we as a movement give to religeon is ridiculous, considering, to Be a Marxists, you have to be a dialectical materialist, of course you do not have to, to be a communist or socialist, but for alot of MLs and MLMs, we seem to not only see religeon as something we should defend, as is the case with the anti islamophobe sentiment, but whenever anyone denounces Islam, Buddhism, Hindusim, they are called racist, and dismissed, rather than listened to and debated.

The only religeon we are safe to bash is Christianity, due to it being the religeon of the oppressor, and a tool of european conquest.

The moralistic, fraudulent, sexist, Antiscientific and anti materialist outlook of all religeon is pathetic and helps keep the world from unifying.

Wether its buddhism, which despite western liberals claims, actually does believe in reincarnation, and and says poverty and disease are not real, so why bother even changing things.

And if you are in poverty, fuck, you must of done something bad in your last life, so you have no right to complain.

Or wether its hinduisms upholding of the caste system, or islams abuse of womens rights, its the same bullshit with a few different things in each book.

First worlderes especially, seem to think spirituality and religeon are cool lifestyle choices, to accompany theur fair trade chocolate, but we need to combat religeon for the slavery condoning anti revolutionary lie it is.

This wouldnt be so bad, If a well known RAANISTA and supposed revolutionary had not released a blog where he upholds spirituality, and with the lets uphold the religous populations right to do all kinds of backward ass shit cos of some book a guy wrote after ascending to heaven blah blah blah.

[The Count]

To someone who would say that it's not in the interest of Marxism to see the demise of organized religion, I'd refer them back to these 'little punks':


Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.


All modern religions and churches, all and of every kind of religious organizations are always considered by Marxism as the organs of bourgeois reaction, used for the protection of the exploitation and the stupefaction of the working class.

Atheism is a natural and inseparable part of Marxism, of the theory and practice of scientific socialism.

[red cat]

Why do so many Marxists seem to have this respect for religeous beliefs, it really is crazy.

As a Maoist, I am not some liberal islamophobe, or a middle class Anarkiddy, who likes to shock his new age christian parents by dropping gems about catholic priests, however, i find the Respectability we as a movement give to religeon is ridiculous, considering, to Be a Marxists, you have to be a dialectical materialist, of course you do not have to, to be a communist or socialist, but for alot of MLs and MLMs, we seem to not only see religeon as something we should defend, as is the case with the anti islamophobe sentiment, but whenever anyone denounces Islam, Buddhism, Hindusim, they are called racist, and dismissed, rather than listened to and debated.

The only religeon we are safe to bash is Christianity, due to it being the religeon of the oppressor, and a tool of european conquest.

The moralistic, fraudulent, sexist, Antiscientific and anti materialist outlook of all religeon is pathetic and helps keep the world from unifying.

Wether its buddhism, which despite western liberals claims, actually does believe in reincarnation, and and says poverty and disease are not real, so why bother even changing things.

And if you are in poverty, fuck, you must of done something bad in your last life, so you have no right to complain.

Or wether its hinduisms upholding of the caste system, or islams abuse of womens rights, its the same bullshit with a few different things in each book.

First worlderes especially, seem to think spirituality and religeon are cool lifestyle choices, to accompany theur fair trade chocolate, but we need to combat religeon for the slavery condoning anti revolutionary lie it is.

This wouldnt be so bad, If a well known RAANISTA and supposed revolutionary had not released a blog where he upholds spirituality, and with the lets uphold the religous populations right to do all kinds of backward ass shit cos of some book a guy wrote after ascending to heaven blah blah blah.

The Maoist approach towards religion is totally practice oriented. Do not forget that most peasants and workers are religious, and you will almost surely alienate yourself from them if the first thing you do is to attack their beliefs. The correct way of handling religion is to first discuss and abolish the religious malpractices that hurt the oppressed masses directly.

Every religion contains some positive elements. These often prove quite useful in promoting communist ideas among the masses. In later stages of the revolution, the educated masses themselves attack the main concept of religion itself. The whole process is gradual and has many stages. Though religion is in contradiction with dialectical materialism, the religious masses, and not a handful of enlightened materialists, will ultimately make the revolution. We don't respect religion, we respect the masses and their right to believe in it.

[Rafiq]

We are All Anti-Religion, and oppose all forms of Religion(Most of us) but since we don't believe in those religions, perhaps they shouldn't be taken Seriously.

I refer to them as "Nice Stories".

For instance, one would not look upon the harry potter series and then start worshiping the head wizard.

Or, when one would read any book for that matter, we would not simply worship the "protagonist" of the story.

We will however, find any oppressed minority, whether that be the oppressed Bahai's in Iran, or the Discriminated Muslims in Europe, we will support them, simply because they are being targeted by a Xenophobic campaign to either "Rid Europe of the Muslim Foreigners" or "Cleanse Iran of the Infidel Bahai heretics".

[Homage To Catalonia]

Totally, i support defending muslims from persecution, and am not hostile towards the religeous, however, I mean if we are so pandering to religeon, we are allowing religeon to oppress the most oppressed in society.

I feel religeon is a roadblock to many, for instance, I have a muslim aquaintence, and he actually refers to homosexuals as dogs and thinks women should stay at the home.

Now to put up with this without challenging it, in the name of not scaring muslims away, is all kinds of wrong.

But yeah redcat i generally agree with your outlook.

[Rafiq]

Certainly, I used to be a Muslim myself, it is a Right wing Idealogy like all other Religion.

However, Muslims themselves are not that bad, only the extreme ones such as your acquittance need to be weeded out.

[red cat]

Certainly, I used to be a Muslim myself, it is a Right wing Idealogy like all other Religion.

However, Muslims themselves are not that bad, only the extreme ones such as your acquittance need to be weeded out.

When did you change your beliefs, comrade ? If I recall correctly, you were a Muslim when you joined this forum.

[Homage To Catalonia]

When did you change your beliefs, comrade ? If I recall correctly, you were a Muslim when you joined this forum.

I too am intruiged, was it through studying marxism you dropped you theistic views, or was it just a personel thing?

[Communist]

.Moved an irrelevant post (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1939881#post1939881) from this thread to a suitable one in Member's Forum, and moved this thread from Politics to Religion.

[Rafiq]

When did you change your beliefs, comrade ? If I recall correctly, you were a Muslim when you joined this forum.

I changed my beliefs... About twenty days ago I think.

I stopped being a Muslim, because I felt that if God exists, why make us suffer? Why make an imperfect human race, and then send most of them to hell?

And for Marxarian reasons, too.



I too am intruiged, was it through studying marxism you dropped you theistic views, or was it just a personel thing?

Both.

[ComradeMan]

^^^^ LOL!!!! Three weeks seems a short span to have such a massive change of heart and soul. You were defending Islam and attacking other religions pretty ferociously only three weeks ago?

Are you sure about this massive, massive ideological change?

Isn't a bit hypocritical to now state, as you do above- that it is a rightwing ideology, very close to saying "fascist" which you so vehemently denied and fought against accusing those who said this, albeit aggressively and perhaps racistly, of being "islamophobes"? Now, you sound islamophobic by saying that...

To be honest I'm confused as to who you are and what you are about.... comrade.

[Homage To Catalonia]

Comrademan, Do not be an asshole, As far as I am concerned, He would be a comrade, wether he was fooled by organised religeon or not, and now he has overcome his old theist viewpoint, Its something good, not an opportunity to be a dick with the guy.

[ComradeMan]

Comrademan, Do not be an asshole, As far as I am concerned, He would be a comrade, wether he was fooled by organised religeon or not, and now he has overcome his old theist viewpoint, Its something good, not an opportunity to be a dick with the guy.

I'm not being an asshole- it just seems such a "remarkable" turn around in three weeks- as Red Cat also seems to have noted. Added to which there is a "history" of comments and opinions to boot- go back and look through the posts if you want.

His point about Islam being a "rightwing ideology" seems remarkable considering three weeks ago he was arguing to violently against this? :confused:

I don't think we should start saying "Islam" is a "rightwing ideology" either- it has a lot of reactionary baggage, as do all religions, but this sounds like Islamophobia to me.

[Rafiq]

Comrademan, it is not Fascist, but it is right wing.

I have became less and less religious in the past year, and I've decided just to let go.

I have the right to believe and not believe whatever I want.

In no way am I 'Islamophobic" I live and be with Muslims every day.

Islam is no more ridiculous than any other religion, "comrademan".

Who are you to judge my actions? You have no right to criticize me for changing my religious beliefs.

It's not like I just plopped one day, and said "I not gonna be religious no more". No, this took a while of thought, thought that I didn't express on Revleft.

And at the time when Islam first came about, it was progressive compared to the ways of the Arabians. It would have been considered very leftist at the time.

But since, it's been 1400 years, I don't see a reason to follow a religion that in no way humanity benefits from anymore.

I will continue to defend the rights of Muslims against Xenophobia, but I am not a Muslim myself.

If you don't like that, fuck off, mind your own business, and gtfo of my affairs, reactionary asshole.

[Rafiq]

I'm not being an asshole- it just seems such a "remarkable" turn around in three weeks- as Red Cat also seems to have noted. Added to which there is a "history" of comments and opinions to boot- go back and look through the posts if you want.

His point about Islam being a "rightwing ideology" seems remarkable considering three weeks ago he was arguing to violently against this? :confused:

I don't think we should start saying "Islam" is a "rightwing ideology" either- it has a lot of reactionary baggage, as do all religions, but this sounds like Islamophobia to me.

Red Cat was asking a question, I don't think he is opposed to my actions.

And this didn't take "three weeks" to think about.

I was arguing against Islam being a Fascist Ideology. which it is not, at all.

[freepalestine]

ive heard similar stories before.and the baggage of religion
from muslims,catholics etc

[ComradeMan]

If you don't like that, fuck off, mind your own business, and gtfo of my affairs, reactionary asshole.

You see you throw names around like reactionary and asshole at freewill- yet 3 weeks ago you were defending from a leftist position, quite strongly too, what you now call a reactionary/rightwing religion? This is rather bizarre is it not?

It's just curious to see such a turn around in such a short space of time.

Whatever your own spiritual beliefs are that's fine- but you do state here, now, that Islam is a rightwing ideology.

But if Islam is, as you say, rightwing, then by defending Muslims, who subscribe to Islam, i.e. a rightwing ideology, it is tantamount to saying that Muslims are rightwing. As a leftist this makes it a bit odd- because you would be thus defending rightwingers? :confused:

Now, I don't believe that Islam is de facto a rightwing ideology although in practice the various schools of Islam do have much to look at.

I also wonder whether it is appropriate to call Islam an "ideology" anymore than it is to call Marxism a "religion"- ironically a thing which a lot of rightwingers and Islamophobes seem to do. ;)

[Rafiq]

You see you throw names around like reactionary and asshole at freewill- yet 3 weeks ago you were defending from a leftist position, quite strongly too, what you now call a reactionary/rightwing religion? This is rather bizarre is it not?

It's just curious to see such a turn around in such a short space of time.

Whatever your own spiritual beliefs are that's fine- but you do state here, now, that Islam is a rightwing ideology.

But if Islam is, as you say, rightwing, then by defending Muslims, who subscribe to Islam, i.e. a rightwing ideology, it is tantamount to saying that Muslims are rightwing. As a leftist this makes it a bit odd- because you would be thus defending rightwingers? :confused:

Now, I don't believe that Islam is de facto a rightwing ideology although in practice the various schools of Islam do have much to look at.

I also wonder whether it is appropriate to call Islam an "ideology" anymore than it is to call Marxism a "religion"- ironically a thing which a lot of rightwingers and Islamophobes seem to do. ;)


Islam can be Leftist, if they do not believe everything in the Koran.

But according to Islam on the basis of the Koran, and some Reactionary Scholars and hadiths, it is right wing, when put as an Ideology.

All religions are right wing the core of them all is very right wing.

However, that doesn't mean people can't alter their beliefs, (Liberation theology).

[ComradeMan]

Islam can be Leftist,

All religions are right wing the core of them all is very right wing.

But if all religions are right wing because their "heart" is very right wing, then how can Islam, a religion, be leftist?

You seem to contradict yourself everywhere.

"the lady doth protest too much methinks" Hamlet Act III, Scene II: 222–230

[Rafiq]

But if all religions are right wing because their "heart" is very right wing, then how can Islam, a religion, be leftist?

You seem to contradict yourself everywhere.

"the lady doth protest too much methinks" Hamlet Act III, Scene II: 222–230

Go away, Comrademan.

read my whole post, you prick. You left out one line from my post, why, you troll?

Islam can be leftist if they do not base the religion on the Koran.

[Homage To Catalonia]

Comrademan, why the aggressiveness?

chill the fuck out.

He changed his beliefs for the better, so STFU being a prick about it bro.

[ComradeMan]

Fuck you, Comrademan.

read my whole post, you prick. You left out one line from my post, why, you troll?

Islam can be leftist if they do not base the religion on the Koran.

That's like saying a Big Mac can be vegetarian if you leave out the beef part. :lol: Islam without the Qu'ran and the "revealed" word of Allah to Mohammed, well, it wouldn't really be Islam, would it? It would be like calling yourself a Marxist and completely rejecting Marx.

I left out the line that was irrelevant to the contradiction.

Why the flaming and attacking?

Perhaps you do protest too much...


Comrademan, why the aggressiveness?

chill the fuck out.

He changed his beliefs for the better, so STFU being a prick about it bro.


What aggressiveness? Chill out?

I'm not the one calling people assholes and reactionaries?

It's perfectly valid to question a stance of a member within the context of a discussion and also point out seeming contradictions here and elsewhere.

[Bright Banana Beard]

What the fuck, ComradeMan.

Why the fuck don't you respect his decision?

Fucking hypocrite for calling him not Muslim just because he didn't follow the whole thing.

Did you know the Jews, and Christian also nit and pick their holy book? Now shut the fuck up.

[Rafiq]

I know, I have the right to leave religion, if I chose to.

I don't need comrade man criticizing me for it, I even have to hide my decision so some Imam doesn't come and try to convert me back.

[ComradeMan]

I know, I have the right to leave religion, if I chose to.

I don't need comrade man criticizing me for it, I even have to hide my decision so some Imam doesn't come and try to convert me back.

Of course you do.

I don't care whether you are a Muslim or not, it's your personal choice- that is not the issue.

Okay, let's forget all your previous stances on everything.

However, here you have stated that Islam is a rightwing ideology, yet it can be a leftist religion other than that you state all religions are rightwing but Islam can still be leftist if it's not based on the Qu'ran? :confused:

Your arguments suck.

[freepalestine]

Of course you do.

I don't care whether you are a Muslim or not, it's your personal choice- that is not the issue.

Okay, let's forget all your previous stances on everything.

However, here you have stated that Islam is a rightwing ideology, yet it can be a leftist religion other than that you state all religions are rightwing but Islam can still be leftist if it's not based on the Qu'ran? :confused:

Your arguments suck.
you know something- you sound like youre bullying.

[Rafiq]

Of course you do.

I don't care whether you are a Muslim or not, it's your personal choice- that is not the issue.

Okay, let's forget all your previous stances on everything.

However, here you have stated that Islam is a rightwing ideology, yet it can be a leftist religion other than that you state all religions are rightwing but Islam can still be leftist if it's not based on the Qu'ran? :confused:

Your arguments suck.

I never said only Islam can be leftist.

Any religion can be leftist if they revise their religions.

You are making a total ass out of yourself right now, strawman

Let's get Something straight.
All religions are right wing, however, if they are revised, they can be useful to the leftist cause, such as liberation theology and Red Shi'Ism, ect.

Please go away, and stop trolling, you Reactionary Zionist pathetic excuse for a human being.

[Milk Sheikh]

Organized religion is bourgeois because it's being carried out like any other business with little concern for spirituality, God, and all that. But one can always be religious in the sense Kierkegaard was religious (or Tolstoy, Debbs, MLK, Gandhi, Tutu, and so many liberation theologists) and still be progressive. I see no contradiction.

If some people expect absolute and total rationalism in all our thoughts and actions so as to become a Marxist, then I am afraid we're only going to have a handful of Marxists.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Islam can be Leftist, if they do not believe everything in the Koran.

What standard is used to determine what is believable, and how is the objectivity of those standards determined? Because as far as I can see when it comes to religious texts, people pick and choose whatever the hell suits their purposes.

[NGNM85]

What standard is used to determine what is believable, and how is the objectivity of those standards determined? Because as far as I can see when it comes to religious texts, people pick and choose whatever the hell suits their purposes.

To a certain extent that is true, and to a certain extent it isn’t. It’s true that most of the faithful exercise at least some discretion in their interpretation their respective faiths. In part, this is simply a practical matter as the generally long, ponderous screeds that comprise these faiths are loaded with internal contradictions. However, these doctrines are only malleable to a point. If we take a census of Jews, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, etc., we can expect to see a range, but most should fall within a fairly narrow spectrum. Those who tend to take a softer approach to religion like to cite examples like Liberation Theology; however, in the scope of Christian history, Liberation Theology is an anomalous mutation, a very minor exception. Also, it is the moderates, or the progressive members of these faiths who have to perform the greatest hula hoops, creating knots of gnarled logic, in order to contort these doctrines into something more compatible with civilization.

[Milk Sheikh]

What standard is used to determine what is believable, and how is the objectivity of those standards determined? Because as far as I can see when it comes to religious texts, people pick and choose whatever the hell suits their purposes.

Hence, people with leftist leanings are going to interpret their religion in terms of equality, social justice, and so on. Sounds good to me because, if their religion helps them become more and more progressive, then their religion has done more good than harm.

[Che a chara]

I'm not very religious, but as I have mentioned a number of times on here, religion can play a progressive part in humanity. Secularism and separation of religion and state is the way to go, but how do we explain the absurdity of the millions and millions of religious believes worldwide who claim to be in contact with God ? Are they all psychologically disturbed ? Is the Pope a deranged lunatic who hears voices?

[ComradeMan]

I never said only Islam can be leftist.

I never said you did say that- strawman, but we were talking about Islam in this instance.


Any religion can be leftist if they revise their religions.

Right, which ones in particular and how? Nevertheless, saying Islam not based on the Qu'ran is pretty stupid in my opinion, because Islam without the Qu'ran wouldn't really be Islam would it?


You are making a total ass out of yourself right now, strawman.

No- you are demonstrating that you can't discuss something without getting angry and name-calling. No one was being aggressive towards you, you have taken it on yourself to perceive everything as an attack which does in turn lead me to conclude you "protest" too much.


Let's get Something straight.
All religions are right wing, however, if they are revised, they can be useful to the leftist cause, such as liberation theology and Red Shi'Ism, ect. .

Which religions and why? That's a very sweeping statement. Is Jainism, an atheistic religion based on extreme veganism and personal realisation rightwing? Are indigenous people's nature spiritualities rightwing? Which religions and why? Is Zen Buddhism reactionary and rightwing? Is Hinduism reactionary- if so, which form of Hinduism?

You see I would argue the case that most religions in essence are not fundamentally leftwing or rightwing although there is an inherent tendency in some more than others to veer in one direction. Certainly in the case of Christianity I would argue it was originally pretty damn "left" and still would be had it not been hijacked by "imperialism", if we can use those terms without being anachronistic.

One minute you say "all" and make sweeping generalisations and the next minute you give two specific and very limited examples from Abrahamic religions- which I concede in practice do tend to be rather reactionary even if that was not really what they were supposed to be about.


Please go away, and stop trolling, you Reactionary Zionist pathetic excuse for a human being

No one is trolling, I am trying to discuss points with you- points I have asked in a calm way, despite your increasing levels of hostility and name-calling.

"Reactionary Zionist", did someone tell you to say that or did you come to the conclusion yourself from my posts? If so, please state which posts and where and we can discuss it, because I do not consider myself to be a "reactionary zionist" so I consider that quite a strong insult. Don't complain about being trolled or victimised (which is not the case) when you behave in a trollish and inflammatory way at the drop of a hat!!!

This is not my opinion about you, this is not whether you choose to be Islamic or not, it's about the points you make- think about it. ;)

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Hence, people with leftist leanings are going to interpret their religion in terms of equality, social justice, and so on. Sounds good to me because, if their religion helps them become more and more progressive, then their religion has done more good than harm.

If they're interpreting their religion according to their political beliefs, isn't it putting the cart before the horse to assume that religion is what makes them politically progressive?


I'm not very religious, but as I have mentioned a number of times on here, religion can play a progressive part in humanity. Secularism and separation of religion and state is the way to go, but how do we explain the absurdity of the millions and millions of religious believes worldwide who claim to be in contact with God ? Are they all psychologically disturbed ? Is the Pope a deranged lunatic who hears voices?

No, they're all mistaken, regardless of their mental state.

[Rafiq]

"Reactionary Zionist", did someone tell you to say that or did you come to the conclusion yourself from my posts? If so, please state which posts and where and we can discuss it, because I do not consider myself to be a "reactionary zionist" so I consider that quite a strong insult. Don't complain about being trolled or victimised (which is not the case) when you behave in a trollish and inflammatory way at the drop of a hat!!!

This is not my opinion about you, this is not whether you choose to be Islamic or not, it's about the points you make- think about it. ;)

I'm not the only one who thinks you're a Zionist. It's pretty much your reputation here on revleft.

The points I make"? So you're saying I have to make points that satisfy you to leave Islam?

[Che a chara]

No, they're all mistaken, regardless of their mental state.

Ahh come on my friend, that's not a plausible or reasonable explanation. In the real world you'd be sent for psychiatric evaluation if you said you'd had contact with an invisible man.

How do we then convince these millions (billions perhaps) that they are mistaken ? The Pope is a good example. He is apparently God's representative on earth, how can he be persuaded that he's not hearing or seeing things ? What do you think goes on inside his head when he is supposedly in contact with God, does he laugh about it behind the scenes and calls his followers fools for believing him so ?

[ComradeMan]

I'm not the only one who thinks you're a Zionist. It's pretty much your reputation here on revleft.

The points I make"? So you're saying I have to make points that satisfy you to leave Islam?

I'm not the only one who thinks you're a Zionist. It's pretty much your reputation here on revleft.

Is it? Have you asked all 23,000 registered users and the 500 odd regular users? Has there been a poll? Were you a registered member when there was a big argument here about Zionism etc? A few people name-call each other and you, like a sheep, or a parrot, copy them.

You see if it isn't that then I would say it's poisoning the well tactics because your argumentation is weak on these points you attack with an ad hominem you can't even substantiate yourself... that's just political clownery at best.

I wonder what your reputation would be on RevLeft? :rolleyes:

Please show the posts, or comments made by myself that would reasonably lead you to conclude that I am a "Zionist". Please do...? Or shut the fuck up.

The points I make"? So you're saying I have to make points that satisfy you to leave Islam?

No, because we weren't talking about your leaving Islam- in fact nobody could probably give a shit whether you leave Islam or not- it's up to you.

The point was that you were describing Islam as a rightwing ideology... That was the point, something you don't seem to be able to argue without random statements and contradictions- and given your recent stance in which you accused the left of scaring away Muslims it was somewhat surprising because if I were an Islamic leftist I would be offended and probably put off from coming somewhere where people were accusing me of being de facto rightwing for my own religious beliefs.

You then go on to say things like "all religions" and make sweeping statements all over the place but you don't actually explain or substantiate them.

[Amphictyonis]

Abolish religion as hierarchical groupthink. Don't let any church or religious movement gain power as is happening now and historically. How to accomplish that is tricky though. How do you abolish hierarchy and the social effects of religious fundamentalism without abolishing religion? How do you keep these people from effecting the social construct with their dogma and social power they gain from gathering together with a common identity/world view? How do you stop them from gathering?

I can't pretend to have a humane and democratic answer for this. In the past I've said 'abolish the church' and let people have their personal faith but I don't think it would be that simple. All manner of complications would arise from that. Religion (although I don't agree with the OP's entire post) is a big problem for any future non hierarchical democratic society.

How do you abolish the church without oppressing people? If this happened, lets say, overnight right now the back lash would be insane. WW3 would break out. They'd get their precious self fulfilling apocalypse. if a sort of progressive 'liberation theology' was the religious norm then our problem would be largely minimized.

[Amphictyonis]

It would be like calling yourself a Marxist and completely rejecting Marx.








Kinda like the third worldist who started this thread ;)

[Rafiq]

How exactly am I a third worldist?

I live in America, I'm not a third worldist.

And amphictyonis, I never said to abolish the church...

And who said I'm a third worldist?

Ali Shariati was a third worldist, but when I was a Muslim, I only liked him because his works on "Red Shi'ism".

[NGNM85]

I'm not very religious, but as I have mentioned a number of times on here, religion can play a progressive part in humanity. Secularism and separation of religion and state is the way to go, but how do we explain the absurdity of the millions and millions of religious believes worldwide who claim to be in contact with God ? Are they all psychologically disturbed ? Is the Pope a deranged lunatic who hears voices?

Some of them clearly are. Most are simply delusional, they are not psychotic, they just have a skewed interpretation of reality. They operate under a single, fixed delusion. Now, based on the intensity of this belief, and the particular denomination we can see relatively normal or benign behaviors, while others are violently deranged by it.

[NGNM85]

Exhibit A; "Hardline Pakistani Cleric Offers Reward to Kill Christian Women", from Reuters.
http://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFTRE6B22E120101203

[NGNM85]

Here's another one; "We have been following the grotesque sentencings handed down under Sharia law’s medieval principle of “an eye for an eye,” including the recent variation of a spine for a spine. (http://jonathanturley.org/2010/08/20/spine-for-a-spine-saudi-judge-seeks-doctors-to-paralyze-defendant-under-sharia-law/) One such case previously discussed (http://jonathanturley.org/2008/11/28/iranian-court-orders-acid-dropped-in-the-eyes-of-defendant/) involved an Iranian court ordering that acid be dropped in the eyes of an Iranian man after he blinded the husband of his lover. Now, that sentence has been reviewed and upheld by Iran’s highest courts as perfectly proper under Sharia law.

In Iran, the “an eye-for-an-eye, a tooth-for-a-tooth” principle is called “qisas” and the victim can withdraw the demand if the accused pays the “blood money” that they demand. This is all enforced by Iran’s “courts.”
...
In a bizarre effort to appear moderate, the prosecutors noted that they intend to enlist “forensic specialists to oversee the blinding by acid."

From Jonothan Turley's Blog;http://jonathanturley.org/2010/12/14/eye-for-an-eye-iranian-supreme-court-upholds-sentence-to-pour-acid-in-eyes-of-defendant/

[Property Is Robbery]

Wether its buddhism, which despite western liberals claims, actually does believe in reincarnation, and and says poverty and disease are not real, so why bother even changing things.
.


You don't know what you're talking about.

[IronEastBloc]

Why do so many Marxists seem to have this respect for religeous beliefs, it really is crazy.

You'll find that we don't really care too much for controlling the personal beliefs of people, just destroying religious authority that controls social capital. otherwise, hating people and trying to be authoritarian with their beliefs is really a hoxhaist and anarchist thing to do.[/QUOTE]


As a Maoist, I am not some liberal islamophobe, or a middle class Anarkiddy, who likes to shock his new age christian parents by dropping gems about catholic priests

You most definitely come off that way.


however, i find the Respectability we as a movement give to religeon is ridiculous, considering, to Be a Marxists, you have to be a dialectical materialist, of course you do not have to, to be a communist or socialist, but for alot of MLs and MLMs, we seem to not only see religeon as something we should defend, as is the case with the anti islamophobe sentiment, but whenever anyone denounces Islam, Buddhism, Hindusim, they are called racist, and dismissed, rather than listened to and debated.

Not every marxist accepts a hegelian narrative on spirituality. we aren't dogmatic like...religion.


The only religeon we are safe to bash is Christianity, due to it being the religeon of the oppressor, and a tool of european conquest.

I'm starting to wonder why I'm replying to you. you're a grade-A moron.



The moralistic, fraudulent, sexist, Antiscientific and anti materialist outlook of all religeon is pathetic and helps keep the world from unifying.

for a supposed maoist, that sure is an unmarxist way to look at the world.

Wether its buddhism, which despite western liberals claims, actually does believe in reincarnation, and and says poverty and disease are not real, so why bother even changing things.


And if you are in poverty, fuck, you must of done something bad in your last life, so you have no right to complain.

not every religion believes in that, so this is effectively a strawman argument.


Or wether its hinduisms upholding of the caste system, or islams abuse of womens rights, its the same bullshit with a few different things in each book.

this passage stinks of western chauvinism and cultural imperialism. you act as if it's only the muslims who abuse the rights of women, when this is quite a global issue. sexism exists in the most secular of societies. for you to single out muslims isn't just ignorant, it's racist. (since we all know in this context, "muslim" is a code-word for "brown middle easterner")



First worlderes especially, seem to think spirituality and religeon are cool lifestyle choices, to accompany theur fair trade chocolate, but we need to combat religeon for the slavery condoning anti revolutionary lie it is.

not much of a deep thinker beyond the surface, are you?


This wouldnt be so bad, If a well known RAANISTA and supposed revolutionary had not released a blog where he upholds spirituality, and with the lets uphold the religous populations right to do all kinds of backward ass shit cos of some book a guy wrote after ascending to heaven blah blah blah.

You were talking about Marxists, but now are talking about RAAN. Stay on topic.

[Rafiq]

What standard is used to determine what is believable, and how is the objectivity of those standards determined? Because as far as I can see when it comes to religious texts, people pick and choose whatever the hell suits their purposes.

Which is why I'm no longer religious.

[Rafiq]

I'm not very religious, but as I have mentioned a number of times on here, religion can play a progressive part in humanity. Secularism and separation of religion and state is the way to go, but how do we explain the absurdity of the millions and millions of religious believes worldwide who claim to be in contact with God ? Are they all psychologically disturbed ? Is the Pope a deranged lunatic who hears voices?

Well, the millions and millions of people are religions the same reason they live in Capitalism.

[Rafiq]

Which religions and why? That's a very sweeping statement. Is Jainism, an atheistic religion based on extreme veganism and personal realisation rightwing?

Most main stream religions. Religion in general always will lead to being reactionary.







Are indigenous people's nature spiritualities rightwing? Which religions and why?

Well, those aren't really forms of organized mainstream religion.






Is Zen Buddhism reactionary and rightwing?

Buddhism indeed can be extremely reactionary.

Look at Pre-Mao Tibet.








Is Hinduism reactionary- if so, which form of Hinduism?


Hinduism is reactionary, like all other religions.

Why? Well, the caste system is a place to start.

[Rafiq]

.
The point was that you were describing Islam as a rightwing ideology... That was the point, something you don't seem to be able to argue without random statements and contradictions- and given your recent stance in which you accused the left of scaring away Muslims it was somewhat surprising

1. Islam is very right wing as an Ideology, if you are basing it on the Koran, which mentions women being half of what men are.

2. I don't accuse the whole left of scaring away Muslims.

There are factions within the left who are scaring away potential Muslim Leftists.

How will you allow for religion to whither away if you scare away it's victims?

[Rafiq]

Wait a second.

"Maoist" = Homage to Catalina

??????
:confused: :confused: :confused: