Why did communist countries not join the soviet?

[lostsoul]

I was reading some Marx and he stated that there should be no country, the world should join together. Basically it makes sense, when you think of the soviet union.

But why did China and Vietnam not join the Soviet union? The only reason i can think of is that they only cared about themselfs and wanted to remain independent.

Do you consider this correct? or should they have just joined the Soviet union?

[Morpheus]

Because they didn't want to be bossed around by the Russian Communist Party. They wanted to run their own country, free of foreign domination. Also, Mao claimed that the USSR became state-capitalist in the 50s.

[lostsoul]

But wasn't the union suppose to be made up of repsentatives of all other regions?

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2003, 05:01 AM
I was reading some Marx and he stated that there should be no country, the world should join together. Basically it makes sense, when you think of the soviet union.

But why did China and Vietnam not join the Soviet union? The only reason i can think of is that they only cared about themselfs and wanted to remain independent.

Do you consider this correct? or should they have just joined the Soviet union?
Because China and Soviet Union were competing imperialist powers, so it wouldn't have been in their interests to work together.

[Pingu]

i still want to known why the other communist/socialist countries didnot help Cuba (when Che was minister) very good :rolleyes:

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2003, 04:28 PM
i still want to known why the other communist/socialist countries didnot help Cuba (when Che was minister) very good :rolleyes:
They did help Cuba. Particularly the Soviet Union and China. Although Che sided with the Chinese in the Sino-Soviet dispute since he opposed the revisionism of the USSR after Stalin, he still cooperated with the Soviets.. Fidel Castro did create a good relationship with the USSR that lasted until the fall of the USSR.

[chamo]

Vietnam and China were communist independence struggles rather than a working class revolution, so it makes sense that they wanted to stay independant.

[highway star]

ussr and china helped cuba because of this when there was a cris in ussr that effected cuba very much.

[lostsoul]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2003, 06:15 PM
Vietnam and China were communist independence struggles rather than a working class revolution, so it makes sense that they wanted to stay independant.
But aren't true communists suppose to be internationalist?

China, it seems to me, did not join the soviet union and/or help much in other revolutions(except for perhapes the korean war, but to me it seems they did it more for their internal security).

[chamo]

I said China was an independance struggle. Silly me.

Vietnam was though, but it would'nt make sense for the country to liberate itself and then become resolved by the Soviet Union.

The Soviet Union and the Chinese had different ideologies and policies, ever heard of the Sino-Soviet dispute.

All socialist countries should join together and should have joined together, I think this shows you something.

[elijahcraig]

I think that after Stalin died, Mao recognized that USSR under Khruschev was now revisionist and state capitalist, so he did not pussy out to the revisionist, he stood firm, and became the new standard for socialism. Most third world revolutions were inspired by Mao, so they sided with him over USSR. Some sided with both.

[lostsoul]

I think a huge problem with the left is that it fights itselfs so much.

I started this post..because I have been wondering how could the collaspe of the soviet union been prevented? I just think if China and the USSR were more unfied they could probally try to solve each other's problems.

Without no soviet union, if we want to start socialism we basically have to start from the start.

I keep thinking..If Mao was alive would he have allowed the soviet union to collaspe?

[Faeelin]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2003, 02:57 AM
Without no soviet union, if we want to start socialism we basically have to start from the start.

I keep thinking..If Mao was alive would he have allowed the soviet union to collaspe?
1) You should start over. The soviet union and its empire were abject failures, and reagan was on the spot.

2) What could he do to stop it? Invade, and watch as the soviets nuke bejing?

[elijahcraig]

After 1953, the USSR was no longer socialist. Mao could do nothing except denounce it, which he did. What did you expect him to do?

[tresa909]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2003, 02:57 AM

I started this post..because I have been wondering how could the collaspe of the soviet union been prevented? I just think if China and the USSR were more unfied they could probally try to solve each other's problems.

Without no soviet union, if we want to start socialism we basically have to start from the start.


lost soul, i ask the same questions and now its too late we can only learn from history therefore, we must change our perceptions and not be so concerned with tradition. i realize tradition is important only tradition may prevent us from finding solutions today.

for example, why so much terminology from the past? do we need it? i say we identify one another on a deeper level, lets start with love, or should i ask, can we start with love? we need something that will show one another that we are of the same yoke. i know we must still fight, and there are many ways to fight, don't get me wrong, the armed soldiers serve their purposes.

i agree we need to build on a new foundation with old and new ideas.

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2003, 03:05 AM
After 1953, the USSR was no longer socialist. Mao could do nothing except denounce it, which he did. What did you expect him to do?
The Soviet Union at that time, although still very much on the left of world politics had markedly different goals to China. They did cooperate to a large extent. However, the Soviet Union was never going to go back to being revolutionary, Mao knew this and there was nothing he could do. China had its own problems to overcome and could become a formidable oponent to U.S. Imperialism without the help of the Soviet Union.

Mao said it would take China decades before it came a powerful force in the world. Perhaps until around 2000 he said. Unfortunately China panders so easily to U.S. Imperialism after Deng Xiaoping took over that its largely irrelevant. Since 1976 the kind of economic growth Mao could invision was far less realistic.

[lostsoul]

Actually...i was banned from this site for a while and i could not access it(because someone on my network did a port scan on this site and the site blocked my router).

Well anyways..it got me thinking alot...about with China and the soviet union gone..their is no socialist country that actually has alot of power. And worst people seem to have given up on socialism. I talk about this problem to people and most people think the solution to this problem is to give the poor people money(which doesn't elimate the problem just masks it).

I see alot of hookers when i'm downtown, and many of them, judging from how i hear them talking, seem to be from europe. I don't why, but i just assume their from the soviet union countries(poland, hungry, Russia,..). It just made me try to figure out how the soviet union's collaspe could have been prevented, and also if creating the soviet union was worth it. I mean if Lenin, and Marx knew what suffering would result by their actions would they still have done it?

I must confess i haven't studied the soviet as much as i should, but i don't know..questions like these keep crossing my mind regarding the union..What if..what if...what if.


Take care

[kingbee]

very basic- but the chinese put more emphasis on the peasants, and the soviets the workers- both had different ideas on socialism/communism, and therefore it wouldnt work.
in addition, inside the soviet union (if china had joined) there would have been a constant power struggle between russia and china. russia would want to lead (as they did in the soviet union and warsaw pact).

[Indysocialist]

Having never been to China could you tell if this is correct, my brother is a drug auditor for Eli Lilly (I know they're fuck ups, please spare me the lecture, I know about Prozac and the like) and he's been to China quite a few times. Now he's told me that when he left one of the bigger cities (Beijing I think) that the quality of life dropped drastically. His exact words were "Communism is dead in China". Is this true? I know that after Deng took power things changed drastically for the worse, but have things sunk that low? Even Time is saying that Socialism is slowly leaving China one bit at a time.

[commieboy]

I had heard that China wasn't too fond of the USSR, but was forced to be allies because, they're the two largest communist countries..and Why would Vietnam Join the USSR? They just fought wars against the french and the Americans so they can be governed by themselves, not some puppet government or a Russian Politician/.

[Viet_Nam_Communist_Youth_Union©]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2003, 05:01 AM
I was reading some Marx and he stated that there should be no country, the world should join together. Basically it makes sense, when you think of the soviet union.

But why did China and Vietnam not join the Soviet union? The only reason i can think of is that they only cared about themselfs and wanted to remain independent.

Do you consider this correct? or should they have just joined the Soviet union?
Thanks GOD that our leader didn't do that stupid think, so right now our country will be lawless and struggle like Russia ;)

[Kez]

the reason the vitenamese etc didnt join was because they didnt want to take orders from russia CP beurocrats. Stalin was a conservastive figure, and with this meant that he and his beurocracy were not radical and not revolutionary, this is why they didnt push for revolution in germany (which lenin said was the prequisite to the russian revolution being successful), to the Spanish civil war, which stalin killed off as it would have been to radical for him, and may have put his position at risk as he may ignite a european class struggle which he would have had to partake in, which would have been ever so much effort for old porkass Joe, even if the reward was the freedom of the entire population of europe from capitalism.

This conservative trend continues upto Nazi Germany where instead of smashing the fascists he just tries to keep them quiet for as long as he can, and again not risk any disruption from his beurocratic routine.