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ken6346
27th November 2010, 10:11
tl;dr - Enter Shikari have, since their second album, become very political, and you should listen to them if you haven't already. They're far left by the way.


So this is my first major post in this forum, and it'll be a bit long, but bear with me. It think that you'd do yourselves well to listen to Enter Shikari's sophomore album "Common Dreads" and the first four tracks of their compilation album "Tribalism." Their first album, as a post-hardcore piece of work, is okay, but a bit typical and underwhelming sometimes.


I just thought it was pretty interesting how this post-hardcore band went from being a pretty neat but ordinary hardcore/trance group in the mid 00s to something very very different by the time their second record "Common Dreads" rocked around. I'll talk about a few tracks off their second album and their new compilation of unreleased studio material and remixes, which are incredibly interesting by the way; the album's called "Tribalism." The first track on this record, (which I'll talk about in a moment) in my limited knowledge of all things political, has led me to believe that they're primitivists of some kind, but I think it's a little simplistic to brand them as such; they seem to be social democrats, or possibly communists or even anarcho-communists, speaking out against rampant capitalism and in favour of a limited government, it any at all. But I'll get onto that later.

The first track, if you haven't heard it, consists of an esoteric but effective intro, with a droning synth and heavily affected spoken vocals, including the repeated phrase "we must unite" spoken in many different languages. It sets the album out pretty well: this was going to be, if nothing else, a very "politically-conscious" album; if they weren't going to attack any particular ideologies or individuals/parties, they were going to be pissed about the current state of the political world in a general way. The second last phrase on the track, "to avoid disaster, we must unite," is important in the context of the album as a whole, and I'll discuss this a bit more later: they are scared of the current state of being. They are scared that, without uniting to combat the status quo, we are, for lack of a better expression, fucked.

Their second track is entitled "Solidarity:" it lives up to it's name reasonably well (hearing this song live, everyone moshing the FUCK out, and chanting the lyrics; it's an amazing experience to say the least). Allow me to post a few lyrics:

"Here tonight I clock a thousand heads,
Here to unite through common dreads...
...Now we can no longer hide
The immediacy of these fears
Our names will not be writ on water,
And we don't need an ark,
One day I know the dam will collapse,
And we will be the current." [I should point out that the breakdown begins here, and it's musically amazing, at least for listeners of hardcore]

Needless to say, these blokes are pretty pissed off. And it's clear why: they're scared of the current state of things. They've definitely got an audience; I think it's fair to say that we are all, if nothing else, scared of the way that the world is "going;" we're scared that the capitalists, the government, are in fact winning (and they are in a big way, at this stage, although the GFC has resulted in a move to the left, or at least the centre, in many nations, Australia included), and that the general population, in being "brainwashed" in one way or another about the perceived evils of the left in general, are not willing to step up (I'll get onto this phrase "Step Up" later; it's actually the third track).

So yeah, I think these lyrics essentially speak for themselves; the first four lines I quoted are very self-explanatory, and of course the biblical allusion and extended metaphor shown in the next four lines make the point that what I perceive as the Left (meaning this band and the views they stand for, as well as all people red in general) is essentially fated to rise against capitalism and government - "the dam will collapse and we will be the current" - and that the individuals involved, in the context of the song (again, called "Solidarity"), will be so united, that "[their] names will not be writ on water," because they are one integral cohort, one group that stands together against oppression and capitalism, as opposed to a "bunch" of individuals who would act in a way that is contrary to this idea of utter unity and that their immense power will be self-evident and all-encompassing - "we don't need an ark." I think you get the picture: this group called for not reform, not fair play, but outright revolution, and theirs is the opinion that this revolution is inevitable (some here may argue against this point, but for a group which does play to the capitalist game of the music industry, they make a very conscious point; if they were to say that a vanguard or any other means of direct action was necessary for revolution, they'd probably be arrested for "inciting immanent violence" or some bullshit).

I'll talk very briefly about the third track on this album, which is called "Step Up." I'll start with the first two lines:

"If our own lives aren't directly affected,
then it don't need to be corrected" - I don't think this even needs a separate paragraph; this is the harm principle, clearly stated in the vernacular of a modern context.

And then of course there's the spoken word that proceeds the breakdown:

"We have greatness within us; innovative, giving, determined -
it's time for the best in us to come out" - A very clear statement of solidarity as demonstrated in the previous track, and an advocacy of socialistic ideals of labour being for the betterment of mankind rather than for a capitalistic profit.

The rest of the song is along the same lines; the idea that the harm principle is the sole rationale for authority to be exercised against another individual, and that, once again, the proletarian revolution is utterly inevitable, regardless of the fact that, in our current state (meaning that in most countries, disregarding the UK and Greece, amongst some other minor movements [as far as my knowledge is concerned]), the working class is for the most part absolutely comatose to the idea that they're being utterly exploited (as long as they can get an XBox or PS3 for Christmas, they're fine in their opinion). I think that you can connect the dots (and this isn't a complete cop out because I've had three glasses of gin and a glass of wine. Yeah...)

I'd discuss the first track on their compilation album consisting of unreleased studio material and some live and remixed material, but I'm in no state to do so to be honest. So I'll post a link:

edit: apparently I can't post YouTube links; I don't know why, because I've got enough posts to, but here's the link anyway: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El0UWCFmEPI
enjoy it, it's a great song even if you don't think there's a poignant political message to be made

and I'm sure you guys can figure out what's going on (and the reason I said that they may be partial to anarchist primitivism, but given their most recent studio work, and some of the sympathies expressed in this song, I think that that's a bit of a simplistic interpretation).

So yeah, I hope that you guys consider listening to this band, if you haven't already - while their music is pretty cool (they're pretty much second best to Type O Negative in my last.fm profile), in terms of sheer popularity, these guys are ABSOLUTELY VITAL; their influence reaches all across the UK, and they've got significant fan bases in the USA and Australia. These guys, while somewhat undeveloped in their views, make a very important point: that the current political and economic system is fucked, and that, as that not reform, but revolution is absolutely necessary to attain some sense and state of social and economic egalitarianism.


And finally, I'm so sorry if this post isn't reasonably understandable; for at least the second half of it, I was pretty much pissed, and for the first half it, I'd had a few glasses of gin.

Widerstand
27th November 2010, 10:30
These guys, while somewhat undeveloped in their views, make a very important point: that the current political and economic system is fucked, and that, as that not reform, but revolution is absolutely necessary to attain some sense and state of social and economic egalitarianism.

Lots of bands with wider fanbases have made that point before. Half people don't listen to the lyrics, half of those who do understand them in a completely different manner, if at all, and half of those who understand them as you do don't give a rats ass.

Welcome to the music industry, enjoy your stay.

Though I agree that some songs definitely have revolutionary undertones, songs like Thumper could easily be interpreted as Social Darwinism: "tonight the motionless must vacate / so we accelerate out of a stagnant society".

ken6346
28th November 2010, 02:21
Lots of bands with wider fanbases have made that point before. Half people don't listen to the lyrics, half of those who do understand them in a completely different manner, if at all, and half of those who understand them as you do don't give a rats ass.
I'd beg to differ: at least in a very general way, they are constantly speaking against the status quo. Take a few days ago for example: regardless of whether it was a stunt to gain a few more fans or not, they posted on their Facebook page a link to some private footage taken of the 24th of November student protests in the UK. While their fans probably aren't socialists by any definition of the word, the sentiments of dissatisfaction with our current state of being come across loud and clear. Even Marx said that "Communists everywhere support every revolutionary movement against the existing social and political order of things;" I think these blokes are influencing their fans exactly how they want to. If nothing else, their fans are pissed in some way, shape or form at the current social and economic situation of the world.


Welcome to the music industry, enjoy your stay.
In the UK at least, they run and release their music through their own independent record label. They're far removed, in at least a number of places, from the "music industry," or the big business model of the music industry.


Though I agree that some songs definitely have revolutionary undertones, songs like Thumper could easily be interpreted as Social Darwinism: "tonight the motionless must vacate / so we accelerate out of a stagnant society".
I've never interpreted "Thumper" like this; I've always thought of it as a parallel to "The Times Are A-Changin'" by Dylan - "Your old road is rapidly agein', please get out of the new one if you can't lend your hand..." It's clearly a revolutionary sentiment verging on the inevitability of social revolution (as shown in a number of their other songs that I mentioned before).

Sam_b
28th November 2010, 02:44
Post Hardcore? Are you having a laugh?

PS: they're absolutely terrible.

the last donut of the night
28th November 2010, 03:03
Post Hardcore? Are you having a laugh?

PS: they're absolutely terrible.

What genre they are is meaningless, but I'm curious as to what you don't like about them.

Meridian
28th November 2010, 03:11
This isn't my cup of tea but I have looked through a lot of their lyrics.

It seems you are right, there is a general theme of semi-revolutionary sentiments in the lyrics.

ken6346
28th November 2010, 03:13
Post Hardcore? Are you having a laugh?

PS: they're absolutely terrible.
What would you call them, and what's wrong with them?


This isn't my cup of tea but I have looked through a lot of their lyrics.

It seems you are right, there is a general theme of semi-revolutionary sentiments in the lyrics.
I think it's just really interesting how they've gone in this direction; prior to their second album, there wasn't a hint of any of these ideas in their music. I'd almost be inclined to say that they're more than semi-revolutionary, it's just that they can just be a bit vague sometimes, and because of their image and business model, they couldn't possibly live up to the ideas expressed in their lyrics.

Sam_b
28th November 2010, 03:57
This is a bit like when some users on here were going on about the 'revolutionary lyrics' of Muse songs. Fucking hell.

I would say that Enter Shikari (which annoys me because they are too often confused with Shikari who are sick as hell) have more in common with the pop-tinged whiny post-2000 emo than post-hardcore, with perhaps some slight math influences.

What's wrong with them?How long is a piece of string? I could start with the get-on-your-nerves vocals (every line with some sort of elongated vowel OOOOOOOOO EEEEEEEE AAAAA), the synths that just seem to be there for the hell of it and add absolutely nothing whatsoever, the same criticism which can be levelled at what seems to be pointless 'slow moments' (without resorting to stereotype Sorry You're Not A Winner is the most popular when it comes to this: that break just pisses me off in particular). I just don't get the fuss. Before anyone says it, yes i've seen them live and yes admittedly they are better live than on record but I still don't think they cut it.

However I like Death Cab so take from that what you will. I might just go off an play a Bright Eyes record and cry myself to sleep now.

Meridian
28th November 2010, 04:07
This is a bit like when some users on here were going on about the 'revolutionary lyrics' of Muse songs. Fucking hell.

I would say that Enter Shikari (which annoys me because they are too often confused with Shikari who are sick as hell) have more in common with the pop-tinged whiny post-2000 emo than post-hardcore, with perhaps some slight math influences.

What's wrong with them?How long is a piece of string? I could start with the get-on-your-nerves vocals (every line with some sort of elongated vowel OOOOOOOOO EEEEEEEE AAAAA), the synths that just seem to be there for the hell of it and add absolutely nothing whatsoever, the same criticism which can be levelled at what seems to be pointless 'slow moments' (without resorting to stereotype Sorry You're Not A Winner is the most popular when it comes to this: that break just pisses me off in particular). I just don't get the fuss. Before anyone says it, yes i've seen them live and yes admittedly they are better live than on record but I still don't think they cut it.

However I like Death Cab so take from that what you will. I might just go off an play a Bright Eyes record and cry myself to sleep now.
I thought this topic was about the lyrics and not the music itself. Obviously everyone are going to have differing opinions on the music itself. It's pointless to try to argue rationally for a musical taste, it just doesn't really work that way. You can point out when something is done technically poorly, but beyond that not much else can be said. And I have tried.

I agree with you in that I really dislike the music.

But, talking about the lyrics, I think they are more political than that of Muse, there are many anti-war and anti-capitalism songs.

ken6346
28th November 2010, 04:31
*words*
What I take away from this post is that you haven't listened to their sophomore album, or when you did it, you were immediately dismissive due to your not enjoying their first album.

Their first album was ordinary; it had a handful of catchy songs, but listening to their demos of the songs on that album, it's really just a bunch of reasonably well produced crap. Because of the fact that you mentioned "Sorry You're Not A Winner," it's pretty clear that you either haven't listened to their later works or haven't given them a chance - compared to the second album as a whole, that song is worthless post-2000 emo.

If you're interested at all in listening to their second album, the whole album is mostly solid, although the second half can get a bit tedious at times (the track "Hectic" is good fun though, and it lives up to its name and does nothing more than this).

Sam_b
28th November 2010, 05:13
ecause of the fact that you mentioned "Sorry You're Not A Winner," it's pretty clear that you either haven't listened to their later works


without resorting to stereotype Sorry You're Not A Winner is the most popular when it comes to this: that break just pisses me off in particular)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Example


you're interested at all in listening to their second album

Thanks, i'll get in my time machine and pray that it's actually better this time. Wouldn't hold your breath. I might have been 'immiediately dismissive' because it wasn't very good, funnily enough. Kinda expected better from someone with a Neutral Milk Hotel avatar.

NoOneIsIllegal
28th November 2010, 07:19
Shikari is so much better.

h2EcEUfJzw4

ken6346
28th November 2010, 08:26
Thanks, i'll get in my time machine and pray that it's actually better this time. Wouldn't hold your breath. I might have been 'immiediately dismissive' because it wasn't very good, funnily enough. Kinda expected better from someone with a Neutral Milk Hotel avatar.
Do that, I'll pray too. For the record:
- the "elongated vowels" criticism is silly, at least if you disregard their first album
- the synths do a lot for their sound - I'm very surprised that, even though you don't like them, you didn't realise this from the introduction track on their second album. Hell, it's pretty clear on their first record that it's part of their sound
- this business about slow moments, again, is relevant when chatting about the first album. I thought I'd been pretty straight forward about explaining the fact that the two albums are very, very different, and you'd do yourself good to listen to it with an open mind
- "I just don't get the fuss" <-- they're a good band IMO, that's basically it. I started the thread to talk about how their shift from pretty aimless lyrics to reasonably revolutionary-motivated subject matter was interesting in my opinion, and I backed that up with pretty clear analysis. And I'll I've heard from you is "they're shit," with some pretty loose explanations for this.

I hope you give it another shot, it's not as shit as you may have thought. What other kinds of music/bands do you listen to by the way?

Also, I listen to a wide range of music - "In The Aeroplane Over The Sea," "October Rust" by Type O Negative and "The Wall" by Pink Floyd are my favourite albums, and since I'd been listening to ITAOTS when I signed up here, I uploaded that picture (which was sitting around on my computer). I'd probably be crucified if I admitted to really enjoying Lady Gaga and HIM (whoops...)

Sam_b
28th November 2010, 17:17
- the "elongated vowels" criticism is silly, at least if you disregard their first album

In your opinion.


- the synths do a lot for their sound - I'm very surprised that, even though you don't like them, you didn't realise this from the introduction track on their second album. Hell, it's pretty clear on their first record that it's part of their sound

In your opinion


- this business about slow moments, again, is relevant when chatting about the first album. I thought I'd been pretty straight forward about explaining the fact that the two albums are very, very different, and you'd do yourself good to listen to it with an open mind

In your opinion


And I'll I've heard from you is "they're shit," with some pretty loose explanations for this.


I think I set out a perfectly acceptable justification. I should probably make it clear that I don't particularly care for political music either.

bricolage
28th November 2010, 17:35
Only bands with Guy Picciotto in them can be called post hardcore.
Bam.

Widerstand
28th November 2010, 18:25
Only bands with Guy Picciotto in them can be called post hardcore.
Bam.

If only he wouldn't sing :/

bricolage
28th November 2010, 18:51
If only he wouldn't sing :/
I've always thought he sounded better than Ian MacKaye

Widerstand
28th November 2010, 18:55
No fucking ... you're kidding...

bricolage
28th November 2010, 19:59
No fucking ... you're kidding...
Hell no!
Rites Of Spring>>>

Widerstand
28th November 2010, 20:59
Hell no!
Rites Of Spring>>>

Point, but in One Last Wish he should've shut up so I can fap to the guitar doodles :/

NoOneIsIllegal
29th November 2010, 04:52
Guy > Ian

Yeah, I went there.
FORGIVE ME, HARDCORE GODS :(

bricolage
29th November 2010, 23:46
Point, but in One Last Wish he should've shut up so I can fap to the guitar doodles :/
You know what I've only ever heard that song that's on 20 Years of Dischord by them and nothing else. I feel ashamed.

NoOneIsIllegal
30th November 2010, 02:44
You know what I've only ever heard that song that's on 20 Years of Dischord by them and nothing else. I feel ashamed.
Their only album, 1985, is really good. Get it! I think Dischord within the last year re-released it on vinyl.

Widerstand
30th November 2010, 02:57
One Last Wish is so awesome :3 In fact it's my favorite Guy band (yes uh...Fugazi...like huh..naw.)

Boyle1888
23rd December 2010, 22:45
I love enter shikari.


Fanfare For The Conscious Man Lyrics
Each nation used to provide its country with security
with factories providing arms for their country
Now multinational companies compete in the arms trade
to serve any customer, maximising the money to be made

So just as farms compete to provide fruit for other countries
so people can live to enjoy the taste of nature
National warehouses compete to provide arms around the world
to aid death
and all hell unfolds.

Our gracious queen
should grasp her crown
and take a good fucking swing at Blair and Brown
for leading her countries to illegal warfare
and trying to pass it off that we're doing 'cause we care.

Now prudence of wars are a redemptive cause
I've never heard such nonsense under international laws
We think we have the right to enforce democracy
when we're weakening ours everyday
What hypocrisy.

We'll be together against this
We'll be forever against this
We'll be together against this
We'll be forever against this

Fuck man
I just woke up to a land where killing is part of every day
and every mind in this intelligent species
is then blinded into the battlefield
like it's natural for us to break instead of build

Unities intrinsic the only cause worth fighting for,
all religions, colours and creeds

Now we are the world and we are the people
We are the world and we are the people
and we will be heard.

We'll be together against this
We'll be forever against this
We'll be together against this
We'll be forever against this

We'll be together against this
We'll be forever against this
We'll be together against this
We'll be forever against this

We'll be together against this
We'll be forever against this
We'll be together against this
We'll be forever against this

Sam_b
23rd December 2010, 22:51
Wow, those are pretty terrible.

gorillafuck
24th December 2010, 01:52
However I like Death Cab
I think that shows us just how much we should take your music taste seriously:lol:

But seriously I don't like them either. Though nobody is going to win a debate over whether they're good or not if you don't listen to the same music.

Reading their lyrics they're obviously at least left-leaning.

p.s. The guy from Rites Of Spring sounds better than Ian Mackaye. This is objective truth.

malthusela
28th December 2010, 15:20
Being political does not make said band any less boring.