Boycott Thanksgiving?

[Amphictyonis]

I find it hard to 'celebrate' a day when colonialists succeeded with the help of some kind people only to stab them in the back with years of death, murder and apartheid. To me celebrating thanksgiving would be like celebrating the slavery of African Americans. Humbug on thanksgiving :)


s4nSxArk9g8

[Fawkes]

The origins of the holiday are irrelevant, really. For me, Thanksgiving is the one day a year where my whole family gets together, eats a shit load of food, and just has a nice day of lounging and relaxing (it's odd for me to be so traditional). Likewise, Christmas is not a celebration of the birth of Jesus, but rather, a time where my family gets together and exchanges gifts and enjoys yet another day of carefree lounging. The meanings of holidays are only those attributed to them by us. Yes, Thanksgiving carries with it an ugly (that's an understatement if I've ever heard one) reminder of the brutal genocide that has occurred and continues to occur across the Americas, but really, who the hell celebrates it in honor of the "friendship" between American Indians and Europeans anyway? It has adopted an entirely new meaning for most, and I see nothing wrong with celebrating it.

[Amphictyonis]

The origins of the holiday are irrelevant, really. For me, Thanksgiving is the one day a year where my whole family gets together, eats a shit load of food, and just has a nice day of lounging and relaxing (it's odd for me to be so traditional). Likewise, Christmas is not a celebration of the birth of Jesus

Well, Christmas is in fact the celebration of Jesus birthday (if he even existed) and thanksgiving is in fact a celebration of a meal between Pilgrims and Native Americans. :) Christmas is also a capitalists dream. I haven't done Christmas in about 5 years. We socialists need to make a holiday for the celebration of, well, not the murder of millions of Native Americans or the birth of Jesus :)

Global humanity day? Hell, I'd rather celebrate the death of Micheal Jackson.

[Fawkes]

Well, Christmas is in fact the celebration of Jesus birthday (if he even existed) and thanksgiving is in fact a celebration of a meal between Pilgrims and Native Americans. :)
No. There's no such thing as an inherent meaning, it is only what we attribute to it.


Christmas is also a capitalists dream.
We live under capitalism, this is a capitalist's dream.


I haven't done Christmas in about 5 years. We socialists need to make a holiday for the celebration of, well, not the murder of millions of Native Americans or the birth of Jesus
I'm fully on board with that.

[L.A.P.]

I could give two shits about thanksgiving but if someone wants to celebrate it then fine, you need to pick some day of the year wear you have a huge ass dinner with your family. As for Christmas, my mom is a Hindu, my dad is a Roman Catholic, and I'm an atheist but we all still celebrate Christmas. Even my mom's family celebrated Christmas and do you know why? Because people need a reason to celebrate in such a depressing time of year, haven't you noticed that every culture and religion has a certain holiday in the winter? Also, Christmas was originally a pagan holiday strongly looked down upon by Christianity (in fact, all holidays were) but no one was going to convert if they couldn't get drunk and have random sex during the depressing winter so Christian churches made it ok because Jesus just so happen to be born on that day. How convenient!:D

[¿Que?]

OP is right. We can't excuse the ritualism of oppression with culture. The symbol is the ideal, it is inconsequential, but the ritual perpetuates the mythology, regardless of how we interpret it. Thanksgiving and Christmas are socio-cultural acts, our own individual perceptions are subsumed within the broader social context. If you don't believe in the accepted Christian or American version of these holidays, and without an organized alternative mass movement to challenge their accepted beliefs, to carry on with these holidays is tantamount to agreeing with their accepted meaning.

[Rafiq]

Today's thanks giving? :blink:

[FreeFocus]

Thanksgiving is part and parcel of America's civil religion and national mythology. This is a great piece (http://www.indiancountrytoday.com/opinion/Indian-massacre-or-mythology-109202594.html) that I read yesterday about the history behind Thanksgiving.

[William Howe]

Though I thoroughly detest the people who founded Thanksgiving, I see it as a holiday of getting together with the family and dining on some damn good food.

[RedSonRising]

I've read it was the generation succeeding the first generation of immigrant settlers who began violent encounters with the natives, and that the first meetings were in fact harmonious. The resulting genocide isn't consciously being celebrated, the success of European adaptation to the North American continent in the establishment of a new society is. Its roots have religious European roots well before the founding of the colonies, also. It has simply been adopted by the mythos of the country's origins.

I think instead of boycotting thanksgiving, acknowledging the genocide and incorporating a commemoration to the lives and culture lost under the colonial slaughter into the holiday would be better. It is more appealing to involve themes of social justice and the other side of history within cultural traditions already existing than to directly confront it in an accusatory manner, especially when extremely few if any US citizens are celebrating genocide when they sit down to eat their turkey.

[William Howe]

especially when extremely few if any US citizens are celebrating genocide when they sit down to eat their turkey.

This.

It's not right to boycott Thanksgiving because of events that happened nearly 400 years ago. It's not like a citizen's got genocide on his mind when he's eating. It's not like newborn Martha's planning genocide when she attends her first Thanksgiving.

[thriller]

I like the fact that it is one of the only holidays in America were people don't buy gifts for each other and/or there isn't American flags plastered everywhere (at least not in my city/house).


Well, Christmas is in fact the celebration of Jesus birthday (if he even existed)

I don't believe there is much debate over whether Jesus existed, there is well documented evidence of it, just not that he is the son of god.

[Sosa]

I don't believe there is much debate over whether Jesus existed, there is well documented evidence of it, just not that he is the son of god.

Don't mean to derail the thread but thats bullshit. the "evidence" is extremely weak

[Fulanito de Tal]

Well, Christmas is in fact the celebration of Jesus birthday (if he even existed) and thanksgiving is in fact a celebration of a meal between Pilgrims and Native Americans. :) Christmas is also a capitalists dream. I haven't done Christmas in about 5 years. We socialists need to make a holiday for the celebration of, well, not the murder of millions of Native Americans or the birth of Jesus :)

Global humanity day? Hell, I'd rather celebrate the death of Micheal Jackson.

Humanity Day? Maybe something like this?

http://www.pazsinfronteras.org/

P.S. I would like to focus on the hunger and torture forced upon the Cuban people by Fidel Castro. This is obviously a direct and absolute violation of Human Rights.

[Blackscare]

Great idea. I think that boycotting this holiday could shape up to be the break-through strategy that the Left needs to regain a sense of relevance.

[Scarlet Fever]

I have decidedly mixed feelings about Thanksgiving too, but for different reasons (although certainly yours are compelling). I wrote a blog post about it but the gist is, it's a consumerism fest. Basically I advocate a Thanksgiving fast instead of a Thanksgiving feast.

[¿Que?]

Great idea. I think that boycotting this holiday could shape up to be the break-through strategy that the Left needs to regain a sense of relevance.
Irony aside, you make a good point. Suppose leftists were able to create a broad movement of anti-Thanksgiving, it would do little to affect the actual system of exploitation.

[Amphictyonis]

Great idea. I think that boycotting this holiday could shape up to be the break-through strategy that the Left needs to regain a sense of relevance.

My sarcasm detector still works! ;) It's more of a personal boycott for me. If Germany won WW2 and set the cultural norm around the globe what sort of sick holiday do you think you'd be celebrating? I'm a tad bias though because I'm Native American. Maybe thanksgiving should be a day to bring out the reality of what happened. As close as the late 1970's Native American women were unknowingly sterilized by the US government. I wonder what the goal was? Read about W.A.R.N./A.I.M. and the 'family planning act' which was George Bush's neo eugenics law. This was in the 1970's and the perpetrators are still around. uNsAK7jS0WY

[Psy]

No. There's no such thing as an inherent meaning, it is only what we attribute to it.

Right to me Thanksgiving is basically overtime day as all I care about is getting my double time for working that day (and that the bosses don't show up so I have a day of peace at the workplace)

[William Howe]

Irony aside, you make a good point. Suppose leftists were able to create a broad movement of anti-Thanksgiving, it would do little to affect the actual system of exploitation.

If we boycotted it, it'd actually make us look worse. We're boycotting a holiday based around family and friends all because of events that happened so very long ago. Not that those events aren't important and still horrible, but no one thinks of those any more and no one has that on their mind on Thanksgiving.

I'm going today to my grandmother's house to have some turkey with her and my family. Genocide is certainly not on my mind.

[¿Que?]

If we boycotted it, it'd actually make us look worse. We're boycotting a holiday based around family and friends all because of events that happened so very long ago. Not that those events aren't important and still horrible, but no one thinks of those any more and no one has that on their mind on Thanksgiving.

I'm going today to my grandmother's house to have some turkey with her and my family. Genocide is certainly not on my mind.
And I think I acknowledged that boycotting Thanksgiving was not a good idea, no? The difference is, rather than invoke some parochial view of family life, I used Marxist theory i.e. you can't destroy capitalism by changing its culture, rather it is the other way around. You change the culture by destroying capitalism.

The other thing you don't seem to understand is the whole concept of a national mythology, which rarely represents the nation's actual history. There is a mythology around thanksgiving that is different from what actually happened that led to Thanksgiving as a holiday. Please read the article FreeFocus posted, it is very informative, albeit a little weak towards the end. The question thus becomes, are you celebrating the national mythology or the actual history? In my book, it doesn't matter which one, because it'd be pretty reactionary to do either.

But my original point, which I'm willing to try to defend, is that part of Thanksgiving and holidays in general has nothing to do with mythology or history, both of which are social constructions (the latter could possibly be objective, that's debatable and somewhat besides the point). Rather, I'm saying that Thanksgiving continues to exist not because the Government sanctions a holiday, or because people believe this or that, but instead because people continue to perform the ritualistic aspects of it (family gathering, eating, watching football). This is also somewhat of a quai-Marxist analysis, since Marx preferred to focus on the concrete relations of people and make abstractions from that.

[RedStarOverChina]

Why boycott it? How can anybody be against a off-work day? I just refrain from any religious activity like I always do. Eat your turkey and maybe have a history discussion during dinner, piss off a redneck uncle or two.

[Fawkes]

The difference is, rather than invoke some parochial view of family life, I used Marxist theory i.e. you can't destroy capitalism by changing its culture, rather it is the other way around. You change the culture by destroying capitalism.


The two aren't mutually exclusive; e.g. raising class consciousness changes the cultural practices of people and leads to the destruction of capitalism.