"pashtun genocide" (split fro wikileaks thread)

[Cultural Revolution]

I dont get the point in Wikileaks, if you dont know genocide is occuring in Afghan and Iraq, your burying your head in the sand, and if your right wing, then your goiung to deny the crimes of the occupation even when they are shown to you.

Why not Let assange go Rambo and dedicate his time to trolling right wing survival forums LOL

[Obs]

I dont get the point in Wikileaks, if you dont know genocide is occuring in Afghan and Iraq,
It isn't. Words mean things.

[Cultural Revolution]

Genocide, the wiping out of a particular race or religeous group

The pashtun people are being wiped out, by the northern alliance and the occupiers

[IndependentCitizen]

I dont get the point in Wikileaks, if you dont know genocide is occuring in Afghan and Iraq, your burying your head in the sand, and if your right wing, then your goiung to deny the crimes of the occupation even when they are shown to you.

Why not Let assange go Rambo and dedicate his time to trolling right wing survival forums LOL

Because it's evidence of the f*&#ing genocide! It's easy to brush the claims under the carpet with the 'there's no evidence brush'.

[Obs]

Genocide, the wiping out of a particular race or religeous group

The pashtun people are being wiped out, by the northern alliance and the occupiers

No they're not, and the Northern Alliance is largely Pashtun.

[Sasha]

Genocide, the wiping out of a particular race or religeous group

The pashtun people are being wiped out, by the northern alliance and the occupiers

/facepalm

the pashtun are the biggest ethnic group in afghanistan, the current goverment (inc president kharzai) are dominantly pashtun, the northen alliance has and haves prominent pasthun commanders, i in no shape or from want to defend the occupation or the current puppet/corrupt kharzai goverment but ethnic genocide is one of the few things NOT on the afghani menu on the moment.
maybe you should inform yourself instead of repeatitly putting your foot in your mouth.

[Cultural Revolution]

A key obstacle is the
perception of many ethnic Pashtuns that they lack
meaningful representation in the central government,
particularly in its security institutions. Other factors
contributing to growing alienation from the Bonn
political process include continued violence against
Pashtuns in parts of the north and west, heavy-handed
search operations and collaboration with abusive
commanders by the U.S.-led Coalition, and
impediments to trade in the southern and eastern
provinces. Unless measures are taken to address these
grievances and ensure that a more representative
government emerges from the forthcoming election,
there will be a greater likelihood of the political
process ending in failure.
Although headed by a Pashtun, Hamid Karzai, the
Interim Administration created in Bonn in December
2001 was dominated by a mainly Panjshiri Tajik
armed faction, the Shura-yi Nazar-i Shamali

(Supervisory Council of the North). The “power
ministries” of defence, interior and foreign affairs
were held respectively by Mohammad Qasim Fahim,
Younus Qanuni, and Abdullah Abdullah, all members
of Shura-yi Nazar. The Emergency Loya Jirga in June
2002, which was expected to install a more broadly
representative and hence more legitimate government,
ended up reinforcing the Panjshiri monopoly over the
central government’s security institutions, though it
included Pashtuns in key positions in financial
institutions.



President Karzai is widely seen as having been
unable to limit either the power of the Shura-yi
Nazar at the centre or of commanders, irrespective
of ethnicity, who wield power in other parts of the
country. Unless the national security institutions are
perceived as representing the population as a
whole, their efforts at disarmament and
demobilisation are unlikely to find popular support.
At the same time, the authority of local
commanders will be legitimated as a vehicle for
resisting ethnic domination.
Alienation from the centre is compounded by the
displacement of large numbers of Pashtuns in the
north, amid a wave of ethnically targeted violence
following the collapse of Taliban rule by factions
of the United Front that helped the U.S.-led
Coalition. UNHCR, the Karzai administration, and
some regional authorities have taken steps to
facilitate the return of displaced northern Pashtuns.
The critical issue will be ensuring security and
access to land for those communities that were
displaced. The international community should also
support continued monitoring of violence against
Pashtuns in the north and west by non-Pashtun
militias, which remains acute in the provinces of
Herat and Badghis, and call on regional authorities
to remove and hold accountable commanders
responsible for these abuses.
To date, the south and east have had only a modest
stake in the political and economic reconstruction
processes outlined in the Bonn agreement.
International assistance has been slow to
materialise in areas outside of Kandahar and other
major towns, while poppy cultivation has boomed.
Commanders with little or no popular legitimacy
remain the principle military partners of the
Coalition, and have used their power to consolidate
control over regional administrations and
economies. In Pashtun areas, this has led to the
growth of patronage systems along sub-ethnic lines
and fuelled tensions within communities; those
Pashtun tribes that lack kinship ties to local
authorities are marginalised politically and
economically

[Cultural Revolution]

Phsyco you loser, wy neg rep me twice, for saying pashtuns are being cleansed, when they are, you scared cos i got 100 rep points LMFAO, what a muppet.

And Obama is black does that mean blacks are not oppressed in America, your such an ignorant person

[IndependentCitizen]

A key obstacle is the
perception of many ethnic Pashtuns that they lack
meaningful representation in the central government,
particularly in its security institutions. Other factors
contributing to growing alienation from the Bonn
political process include continued violence against
Pashtuns in parts of the north and west, heavy-handed
search operations and collaboration with abusive
commanders by the U.S.-led Coalition, and
impediments to trade in the southern and eastern
provinces. Unless measures are taken to address these
grievances and ensure that a more representative
government emerges from the forthcoming election,
there will be a greater likelihood of the political
process ending in failure.
Although headed by a Pashtun, Hamid Karzai, the
Interim Administration created in Bonn in December
2001 was dominated by a mainly Panjshiri Tajik
armed faction, the

Shura-yi Nazar-i Shamali


(Supervisory Council of the North). The “power
ministries” of defence, interior and foreign affairs
were held respectively by Mohammad Qasim Fahim,
Younus Qanuni, and Abdullah Abdullah, all members
of

Shura-yi Nazar. The Emergency Loya Jirga in June
2002, which was expected to install a more broadly
representative and hence more legitimate government,
ended up reinforcing the Panjshiri monopoly over the
central government’s security institutions, though it
included Pashtuns in key positions in financial

institutions.



President Karzai is widely seen as having been
unable to limit either the power of the

Shura-yi
Nazar at the centre or of commanders, irrespective
of ethnicity, who wield power in other parts of the
country. Unless the national security institutions are
perceived as representing the population as a
whole, their efforts at disarmament and
demobilisation are unlikely to find popular support.
At the same time, the authority of local
commanders will be legitimated as a vehicle for
resisting ethnic domination.
Alienation from the centre is compounded by the
displacement of large numbers of Pashtuns in the
north, amid a wave of ethnically targeted violence
following the collapse of Taliban rule by factions
of the United Front that helped the U.S.-led
Coalition. UNHCR, the Karzai administration, and
some regional authorities have taken steps to
facilitate the return of displaced northern Pashtuns.
The critical issue will be ensuring security and
access to land for those communities that were
displaced. The international community should also
support continued monitoring of violence against
Pashtuns in the north and west by non-Pashtun
militias, which remains acute in the provinces of
Herat and Badghis, and call on regional authorities
to remove and hold accountable commanders
responsible for these abuses.
To date, the south and east have had only a modest
stake in the political and economic reconstruction
processes outlined in the Bonn agreement.
International assistance has been slow to
materialise in areas outside of Kandahar and other
major towns, while poppy cultivation has boomed.
Commanders with little or no popular legitimacy
remain the principle military partners of the
Coalition, and have used their power to consolidate
control over regional administrations and
economies. In Pashtun areas, this has led to the
growth of patronage systems along sub-ethnic lines
and fuelled tensions within communities; those
Pashtun tribes that lack kinship ties to local
authorities are marginalised politically and

economically

I'm still confused - what's this got to do with Wikileaks?

[IndependentCitizen]

Phsyco you loser, wy neg rep me twice, for saying pashtuns are being cleansed, when they are, you scared cos i got 100 rep points LMFAO, what a muppet.

And Obama is black does that mean blacks are not oppressed in America, your such an ignorant person


Oh god.

[Cultural Revolution]

Phsyco says most of the Northern Alliance are Pashtun, and because the figurehead with no actual power is pashtun, then pashtuns are not being slaughtered.

And he negrepped me twice, for saying what most pashtuns say, and what is true


http://www.crisisgroup.org/~/media/Files/asia/south-asia/afghanistan/062%20Afghanistan%20The%20Problem%20of%20Pashtun%2 0Alienation.ashx

[IndependentCitizen]

Okay, so the Pashtuns are facing a genocide.

Can you please drop the negative reputation? It's virtual man points, who cares?

[Cultural Revolution]

this is Pschyo

http://www.lolblog.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/facepalm.jpg










The Afghan Northern Alliance is made up of an ethnically and religiously disparate group of rebel movements united only in their desire to topple the ruling Taleban. Made up of mainly non-Pashtun ethnic groups, it relies on a core of some 15,000 Tajik and Uzbek troops defending the northeastern stronghold, Badakhshan, eastern Takhar province, the Panjshir Valley and part of the Shomali plain north of Kabul.

FUCKING TAKE IT BACK PHSYCO!!!!!!!!!!


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/1552994.stm

[Cultural Revolution]

NOOOO

Remember i was an idiot and Psycho put a facepalm down

Hes neg repped me three times now in this one thread, So unless he apologies and recants, basically, because hes got more green squares, he can try and bully other users.

Despite the fact hes totallyu fucking wrong.

And if it wasnt a big deal, why did he negrep me three tiumes, even though i was right

Hes pathetic

[Sasha]

The United Front (United Islamic Front for the Salvation of Afghanistan, UIF, Jabha-yi Muttahid-i Islami-yi Milli bara-yi Nijat-i Afghanistan), known in the West as the Afghan Northern Alliance, was a military-political umbrella organization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbrella_organization) created by the Islamic State of Afghanistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Afghanistan) in 1996 under the leadership of Ahmad Shah Massoud (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shah_Massoud). The organization united all ethnic groups of Afghanistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan) fighting against the Afghan Taliban (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban) who were supported by neighboring Pakistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan) and Bin Laden's Al Qaeda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Qaeda). The United Front included Tajiks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tajik_people), Pashtuns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashtun_people), Hazaras (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazara_people), Uzbeks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzbeks), Turkmen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkmen_people) and others.
The term "Afghan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan_%28name%29)", historically synonymous with "Pashtun", is today the national identity of Afghanistan.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Afghanistan#cite_note-Iranica-7) Despite being of various ethnicities, in a research poll that was conducted in Afghanistan in 2009, 72% of the population labelled their identity as Afghan first, before ethnicity.[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Afghanistan#cite_note-ABCBBCARD-8)
The modern Afghan national identity is derived from the rise of the Pashtun Hotaki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotaki_dynasty) and Durrani (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durrani) dynasties, especially with the establishment of the Durrani Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durrani_Empire) (Afghan Empire) in the early-18th century. From 1747 until 1826, Ahmad Shah Durrani (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shah_Durrani) and his descendants held the monarchy in direct session. They were the first rulers of a Pashtun dominated sovereign state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_state) and were later replaced by the Pashtun Barakzai dynasty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barakzai_dynasty).
While national culture of Afghanistan is not uniform, at the same time, the various ethnic groups have no clear boundaries between each other and there is much overlap.[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Afghanistan#cite_note-LOC-9) Additionally, ethnic groups are not racially homogenous.
i dont take anything back, ethnic problems are not the dominating factor in afghanistans problems

[RedScare]

NOOOO

Remember i was an idiot and Psycho put a facepalm down

Hes neg repped me three times now in this one thread, So unless he apologies and recants, basically, because hes got more green squares, he can try and bully other users.

Despite the fact hes totallyu fucking wrong.

And if it wasnt a big deal, why did he negrep me three tiumes, even though i was right

Hes pathetic
At this point it doesn't matter who's right or wrong, you're behaving/typing like you're twelve. It's an argument on the internet, one of the least consequential things in the world, get over it.

[Cultural Revolution]

he cant even apologise, but cos im a maoist i should just say ahh lets forget it.

IF it was an MLM neg repping someone 4 times in 1 thread for BEING RIGHT, then wed see different comments

and denying the pashtun people are being slaughtered is just as bad as denying the holocaust

[Nolan]

You can't negrep someone four times that quickly. You're trolling, and no one has it out for Maoists.

[red cat]

You can't negrep someone four times that quickly.

I always thought that admins can ? :confused:

[Cultural Revolution]

well actuall, he has done four times

Cos hes admin he can, so he can negrep me four times, even though i was right, yet hes not authoritarian

And my post was 101 now its 19, he did negrep me 4 times

[revolution inaction]

if you look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_Afghanistan#Ethnic_groups pashtuns are about 40% of the population in afghanistan, i would be really suprised if there was an atempet to wipe out almost half the population going on

[Obs]

well actuall, he has done four times

Cos hes admin he can, so he can negrep me four times, even though i was right, yet hes not authoritarian

And my post was 101 now its 19, he did negrep me 4 times
You were not right, and you're behaving like a child.

[Amphictyonis]

The Taliban is largely Pashtun and the NA is mostly Tajiks, Uzbeks and the Hazara. When teh USA supported the Taliban they killed many Tajiks, Uzbeks and the Hazara aftre Russia left Afghanistan. It's been going on for some time but now that the USA is against the Taliban the mostly Pashtun Taliban is being killed. I'd like to read the wikileaks report though. Can you post it here my computer doesn't seem to be able to get to it for some reason.

[Nolan]

Waaaaaah Im being e-oppressed

[gorillafuck]

what a muppet.
Lol, muppet?

This was an important topic but now this thread is a steaming pile of shit.


Many of the above commanders were not in one of the political parties which officially suscribed themselves to the United Front. The political parties in contrast to the above mentioned commanders played only a minor role in the war against the Taliban:


Islamic Party of Afghanistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamiat-i_Islami) - Jamiat-i Islami - Made up of mainly Persian-speaking Sunni Tajiks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C4%81jik_people) officially led by Burhanuddin Rabbani (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burhanuddin_Rabbani).
Islamic Movement of Afghanistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Movement_of_Afghanistan) - Harakat-i Islami - Shia Tajiks, led by Ayatollah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayatollah) Muhammad Asif Muhsini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Asif_Muhsini).
Islamic Unity Party of Afghanistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezb-i_Wahdat) - Hezb-i Wahdat - Made up of Shia Hazaras (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazara_people) and supported by Iran, led by Mohammed Mohaqiq (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Mohaqiq) and Karim Khalili (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karim_Khalili).
National Islamic Movement of Afghanistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Islamic_Movement_of_Afghanistan) - Junbish-i Milli - Made up of Uzbeks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzbeks) and former communists, led by Abdul Rashid Dostum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Rashid_Dostum).
Islamic Union for the Liberation of Afghanistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Union_for_the_Liberation_of_Afghanistan) - Ittihad-i Islami - Sunni Pashtuns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashtun_people), led by Abdul Rasul Sayyaf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Rasul_Sayyaf)

Looks like there's only one Pashtun faction of the Northern Alliance despite Pashtuns being a solid majority in Afghanistan, and the Taliban are definitely a Pashtun group, so I would not be surprised at all if the Northern Alliance was carrying out ethnically motivated violence and maybe even genocide against Pashtuns. I'd like to see more proof, though.

[Rafiq]

I must agree with psycho, it isn't ethnic cleansing that the Americans are bringing about.

I don't think it is in their interest to simply "target the pashtuns". They will target anyone who get's in their way. Not a specific ethnicity.

At least in the case of Afghanistan.

[Q]

Given that this thread was a "Cultural Revolution vs Revleft" contest and given that Cultural Revolution is now banned, shouldn't this be trashed?

[Nolan]

Given that this thread was a "Cultural Revolution vs Revleft" contest and given that Cultural Revolution is now banned, shouldn't this be trashed?

No.