Another giant Wikileaks...leak

[Salyut]

http://twitter.com/wikileaks


The coming months will see a new world, where global history is redefined. Keep us strong: http://is.gd/hzbIa
half a minute ago via web

Next release is 7x the size of the Iraq War Logs. intense pressure over it for months. Keep us strong: http://is.gd/hzbIa
about 1 hour ago via web


Good times ahead.

[Sasha]

pashtun bollox split of too here: http://www.revleft.com/vb/pashtun-genocide-split-t145354/index.html

[Comrade Wolfie's Very Nearly Banned Adventures]

So what has been leaked then?

[RadioRaheem84]

So what has been leaked then?


Has there been any hints?

Are they literally saying that this new bit of leaked info is going to revolutionize global history?

[Amphictyonis]

So whats the content of the wikileaks re[port?

[Dimentio]

Any news about this leak?

[The Vegan Marxist]

Any news about this leak?

Well, they did just mention this 13 hours ago. So it'll be a while until we actually here anymore developments from this.

[maskerade]

how long before the US brands wikileaks as a terrorist organisation then?

Looking forward to seeing what these leaks entail..

[Comrade Wolfie's Very Nearly Banned Adventures]

how long before the US brands wikileaks as a terrorist organisation then?

I'm sure the DoD levelled such accusations at Wikileaks and Assange following the War Dossier.

[piet11111]

I cant help but imagine a bunch of taliban sitting in a dark room looking at a laptop constantly refreshing the wikileaks page hoping the next batch of leaks will include some stuff they personally did.

[Red Commissar]

I don't know if the next leaks package will have so much to do with the Taliban's actions per say. From what I've read it's going to be a dump of US diplomatic cables. They "teased" some of the content by releasing a diplomatic cable between the United States and Iceland, when the latter asked for help regarding the Icesave.

They had two: one from the Americans and another from a British-Dutch collab.

http://mirror.wikileaks.info/leak/us-watson1-2010.txt

http://www.icenews.is/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/UK-NED-ICESAVE-proposal-feb-2010.pdf
http://www.icenews.is/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Icelandic_Icesave_negotiation_team_offer_to_UK_and _NL-25_feb_2010.pdf

Of note from the American one, which apparently ticked off Icelandic press:


2. (C) CDA met with Permanent Secretary Einar Gunnarsson and Political
Advisor Kristjan Guy Burgess at the Icelandic Ministry of Foreign Affairs
on January 12 for a two hour marathon meeting to discuss Icesave. The
Icelandic officials painted a very gloomy picture for Iceland's
future. They suggested that the most likely outcome for the country
was that the Icesave issue would fail in a national referendum. Should
that occur, they suggested, Iceland would be back to square one with
the British and the Dutch. The country, however, would be much worse
off because it would have lost international credibility and access to
financial markets. Gunnarsson suggested that the Icesave issue, if it
continues along its present course, would cause Iceland to default in 2011
when a number of loans become due and could set Iceland back 30 years.

....

6. (C) On January 13, CDA also met Iceland's Ambassador to the United
States Hjalmar Hannesson who was in Iceland. The Ambassador described
the potential constitutional crisis that would likely ensue should the
referendum go forward and fail, in essence a vote of no confidence. In
that case, the constitutionally apolitical Head of State would have
brought down the elected government, a possibility that several former
politicians in both parties had long ago agreed should not happen. Despite
his and his family's long association with the Progressive Party,
Hannesson said that this was not the time for elections or a change of
government. He added that he did not sense a willingness on the part
of the opposition to take control of the government. Noting that the
President, whom he has known for years, is considered "unpredictable,"
he hoped that a solution palatable to all sides in Iceland could provide
a way out.

[Sosa]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-24/pentagon-warns-house-senate-defense-panels-of-more-wikileaks-documents.html

[ckaihatsu]

“State Department cables by their nature contain everyday analysis and candid assessments that any government engages in as part of effective foreign relations,” she wrote.


Dude, how cool is that that here we are, *merely* sending emails and posting to a message board, while those in government wear suits and send *cables*...! It's like the actual letters and words they're using are somehow thicker, more robust, and *physically heavier* than the 26 letters of the alphabet that *we* (sniff)(baw) work with...!

[Delenda Carthago]

so wtf?its 24 of the month,aint we supposed to know what the leak is?

[Tablo]

They will start releasing the leaks on the 26th. I hate having to wait.:(

[Fulanito de Tal]

I'm guessing it has something to do with plans for the next war or how the US is deceiving/manipulating it's allies.

1 more day!

[Pavlov's House Party]

I'm guessing it has something to do with plans for the next war or how the US is deceiving/manipulating it's allies.

1 more day!

Bingo!

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/11/24/wikileaks-ottawa.html





The U.S. government has notified Ottawa that the WikiLeaks website is preparing to release sensitive U.S. diplomatic files that could damage U.S. relations with allies around the world.

U.S. officials say the documents may contain accounts of compromising conversations with political dissidents and friendly politicians and could result in the expulsion of U.S. diplomats from foreign postings.

[Salyut]

U.S. officials say the documents may contain accounts of compromising conversations with political dissidents and friendly politicians and could result in the expulsion of U.S. diplomats from foreign postings.

I should have bought popcorn. :(

[Pretty Flaco]

Bingo!

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/11/24/wikileaks-ottawa.html






Shit, this must be serious! :ohmy:

[Tablo]

I should have bought popcorn. :(
Still got time! I'm getting myself beer and wings so I can spend the whole day reading the leaks and watching the news. Can't wait to see this shitstorm.:lol:

[Robocommie]

Shit dude, this is better than football. It feels like Christmas Eve!

[Pavlov's House Party]

Update!

Rumour has it the documents are going to be about the US funding the PKK (Kurdish seperatists) in Turkey, while Turkish civilians have been supplying insurgents in Iraq.



Other documents show that the US has supported the PKK, which has been waging a separatist war against Turkey since 1984 and has been classified by the State Department as a terrorist organization since 1979. The US military documents call the PKK "warriors for freedom and Turkish citizens," and say that the US set free arrested PKK members in Iraq. The documents also point out that US forces in Iraq have given weapons to the PKK and ignored the organization's operations inside Turkey...

"These revelations are harmful to the United States and our interests," State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley said. "They are going to create tension in relationships between our diplomats and our friends around the world."



http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=196752

That last bit just reveals the Kissenger-esque realpolitik the US is engaged in, if they're going to be commiting potentially damaging covert operations, they might as well realize the ramnifications their actions will have.

[Q]

If that is true, they've dug a deep hole for themselves :lol:

[Fulanito de Tal]

Bingo!

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/11/24/wikileaks-ottawa.html





It's not that hard to guess what the US is up to; it's been going on for a while. :rolleyes:

gzdWPwVTWsI

[Salyut]

Update!

Rumour has it the documents are going to be about the US funding the PKK (Kurdish seperatists) in Turkey, while Turkish civilians have been supplying insurgents in Iraq.



http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=196752

That last bit just reveals the Kissenger-esque realpolitik the US is engaged in, if they're going to be commiting potentially damaging covert operations, they might as well realize the ramnifications their actions will have.

I'm guessing it'll be more then that...but if this sort of thing is going on in multiple countries...

Good times.

[Blackscare]

Shit, anyone notice wikileaks is down? Even if it's foul play, I doubt this will stop it. I'm sure Asange is smart enough to have distributed these files around to a few different places/mirrors well before he even mentioned to the media that this was going to happen, for fear of just this kind of thing happening.


At least I hope :crying:

[Tablo]

Clearly wikileaks is vaporware.... :(

[Q]

For updates, see: http://wlcentral.org/

For helping to distribute the "insurance file" go here: https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5723136/WikiLeaks_insurance

[Tablo]

I recommend everyone download the package. They can't stop us all!

[Delenda Carthago]

Update!

Rumour has it the documents are going to be about the US funding the PKK (Kurdish seperatists) in Turkey, while Turkish civilians have been supplying insurgents in Iraq.



http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=196752

That last bit just reveals the Kissenger-esque realpolitik the US is engaged in, if they're going to be commiting potentially damaging covert operations, they might as well realize the ramnifications their actions will have.

I really fuckin hope thats not it.For many many reasons.

[Spawn of Stalin]

Can I ask what is the so-called insurance file? I take it that isn't the leak.

[Ricardo]

I heard the insurance file was the leak but it's encrypted so if anything happens to the site, wikileaks can release the password .

[ckaihatsu]

Can I ask what is the so-called insurance file? I take it that isn't the leak.


The insurance file is the ultra hard-core super down-dirty tell-all secret of the U.S. Empire that, if revealed, will send all who are associated with its state functions to run screaming to the nearest exits and throw themselves into oncoming traffic -- Wikileaks is being opportunist by not just releasing it straightaway.


x D

[Tablo]

I'm surprised they haven't released anything yet. I was hoping for a midnight release with everyone rushing to get the story..

[FreeFocus]

If it turns out that Turkey has been funding al-Qaeda in Iraq, as some have speculated, then it seriously casts doubts on the official US line because Turkey is a US ally and, with US knowledge, was funding the group the US claimed to be fighting. Hopefully this isn't the extent of the leak. Wikileaks said it would change world history, so we'll see.

[Ele'ill]

Someone should 'hack' wikileaks and release it if wikileaks is afraid to for legal reasons.

[Widerstand]

WikiLeaks? more like BORELEAKS

[Tablo]

Someone should 'hack' wikileaks and release it if wikileaks is afraid to for legal reasons.
We could always crack the insurance package they released.

[Q]

We could always crack the insurance package they released.

Yeah, its only AES-256 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Encryption_Standard), easy deal.

[Tablo]

It will just take a really long while. No doubt the government has already cracked it to be sure what it is.

[IndependentCitizen]

When's it being uploaded for us to download? I'm really interested.

[Pretty Flaco]

If you don't mind me asking, who exactly is the PKK?

Wikipedia says they're "revolutionary socialists" but why would the US be funding a bunch of commies?

[Widerstand]

The PKK is a Kurdish national/ethnic liberation movement. They certainly have socialist undertones, but I'm not sure to what extent.

[Blackscare]

If you don't mind me asking, who exactly is the PKK?

Wikipedia says they're "revolutionary socialists" but why would the US be funding a bunch of commies?

Sometimes it's hard to tell. For instance, there was a period of time I believe when two different intelligence agencies of the US were funding Laotian Communists and Nationalists, respectively. Then of course they realized what each other were doing and decided to only support the Nationalists (or Monarchists?)

[maskerade]

dammit when are these leaks coming out?!

Also, am I the only one who is amused over the fact that the State department has been notifying allied governments that these leaks might be embarrassing? I mean, why is no one asking why those things were done in the first place?

[Spawn of Stalin]

The PKK is the Kurdish Workers' Party, they used to be extremely revolutionary with some Marxist-Leninist and Maoist tendencies, now they are mostly just nationalist. Don't get me wrong, Kurdish nationalism is a good thing but without anti-capitalism it is ultimately pretty useless. I was not aware that the US funded them, they have them listed as a terrorist group and have arrested and detained suspected PKK members in Iraq. There were rumours that they were being funded by the Iranian state but I'm not sure if that's true, but there are definitely PKK fighters of Iranian origin. They have links with Palestinian groups with whom they have trained in Syria and Lebanon. I believe that most of their funding actually comes from within Turkey.

[Spawn of Stalin]

But what does that have to do with wikileaks?:confused:

[Widerstand]

But what does that have to do with wikileaks?:confused:

Some article linked earlier rumored that the USA funded the PKK and that the upcoming leak revealed that.

[Spawn of Stalin]

Ah okay, I see. Well I'm assuming that given the fact that the government has sent a D-notice to all the papers and TV stations that it is something that could be quite damaging.

[Fulanito de Tal]

Where are these history changing leaks?! I'm going crazy!! FUCK! :cursing:

[Widerstand]

Where are these history changing leaks?! I'm going crazy!! FUCK! :cursing:

YEah, where are they?

[ckaihatsu]

Wikileaks said it would change world history, so we'll see.





Where are these history changing leaks?! I'm going crazy!! FUCK! :cursing:


The Wikileaks leak, once received, will cause everyone to take up their history books into their uncontrollably jittering grasp, to stare blank-eyed at them for several hours, finally hurling them gorilla-like into the streets in total disgust. (Etc....)


= D

[Rusty Shackleford]

this one is supposed to be made up of a fuckton(the scientific term for how many shitloads of cables in this file) of messages relayed from ambassadors and so on about their meetings with other nations and nationals.

so, what could be in here is objectives, goals, mistakes and so on in foreign relations between the US and practically everyone.

maybe the US will be the next "reclusive state" that "rattles its sword" because it'll lose all credibility :D

[ckaihatsu]

maybe the US will be the next "reclusive state" that "rattles its sword" because it'll lose all credibility :D


The rest of the world will immediately incinerate all of their holdings of U.S. dollars and instead use beads and stones for international monetary transactions.

[Rusty Shackleford]

The rest of the world will immediately incinerate all of their holdings of U.S. dollars and instead use beads and stones for international monetary transactions.
that or the Euro :lol: oh wait, thats failing hard :laugh:


The Sucre will beat all!

[Ligeia]

Maybe they are waiting for all involved governments to be briefed by the U.S. government?
At least, looking at their Twitter account...they are posting who's been contacted by the U.S. government all the time. And also their news central contains a little list of all the countries that have been informed like a sticky note. :sleep:
They've also send the leaks to news papers first (New York Times, Spiegel, Guardian, Le Monde, El Pais) for them to be processed. So ... maybe they still haven't finished or something....
And New York Times has informed the U.S. government over details, thus they started briefing other governments.


Alan Rusbridger, editor of the Guardian, said tonight: "I appreciate why the DA notice might make people anxious. But, from my reading of the WikiLeaks material, only a tiny part of it is covered or relevant."
source (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/nov/26/wikileaks-documents-downing-street-editors)

[Widerstand]

Whatever they are doing, they are boring as fuck, and if this thing is gonna suck, then many kittens will die.

[Fulanito de Tal]

According to this article, the documents are concerning Russia too.


http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=22117

WikiLeaks has announced release of State Department Secret Correspondence

Whistleblower website WikiLeaks, which has published hundreds of U.S. war logs, has announced a pending release of the U.S. Department of State's secret correspondence, a Russian business daily said on Friday.
Kommersant daily said that WikiLeaks was preparing to unveil messages between the U.S. State Department and U.S. embassies around the world, including in Moscow.

The documents contain the U.S. evaluation of the political situation in Russia and the unflattering characteristics of some Russian leaders, Kommersant cited a WikiLeaks source as saying.

On Wednesday, U.S. State Department's Assistant Secretary Philip Crowley said that the possible release would "put national interests at risk."

"We are prepared if this upcoming tranche of documents includes State Department cables. We are in touch with our posts around the world. They have begun the process of notifying governments that [the] release of documents is possible in the near future," Kommersant quoted Crowley as saying.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and her deputies started calling to world governments, Kommersant said. Moscow has not been notified from the United States yet, the daily quoted an official in the Russian Foreign Ministry as saying.

"These revelations are harmful to the United States and our interests. They are going to create tension in our relationships between our diplomats and our friends around the world," Crowley said, adding that the United States was prepared for the worst outcome.

Rusian Reporter weekly is the only Russian magazine, along with U.S. and German media, which received WikiLeaks materials in advance to prepare publications and alalysis, Rusian Reporter said on its web site.

The main suspect in the leak of these documents, along with the previous logs, is jailed U.S. Private Bradley Manning, who had top-secret clearance as an intelligence analyst for the Army when he was stationed in Iraq.

Pentagon investigators believe that Manning has accessed a worldwide military classified Internet and e-mail system to download the documents.

Manning, 22, was charged in June with several violations of the U.S. Criminal Code for allegedly transferring classified data without authorization.

The WikiLeaks website does not have a central office or any paid staff and its operations are run only by a small dedicated team and some 800 volunteers.

Wikileaks' founder, Australian activist Julian Assange, has no home address but he often pops up in Sweden and Iceland, where Internet anonymity is protected by laws. He is being hunted by Pentagon investigators and is suspected of releasing confidential U.S. State Department documents.

MOSCOW, November 26 (RIA Novosti)

[Sosa]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1333532/U-S-warns-foreign-leaders-new-WikiLeaks-revelations-expose-corruption-allies-America-REALLY-thinks-friends.html



It has been claimed that a backlash by countries upset over the leaks may lead to U.S. diplomats being expelled.

The next release is expected to include thousands of diplomatic cables reporting allegations of corruption against politicians in Russia, Afghanistan and other Central Asian nations.
But there were no specific details as to the nature of the corruption allegations or which governments are involved.

However, according to the UK-based Arabic daily newspaper al-Hayat, the WikiLeaks release includes documents that show Turkey has helped Al Qaeda in Iraq - an extraordinary revelation which could kill off the country’s hopes of joining the EU.

[Morgenstern]

Wikileaks is trying to build up hype, it's understandable. The media will keep on reporting as long as this stand off occurs.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Wikileaks is trying to build up hype, it's understandable. The media will keep on reporting as long as this stand off occurs.

Then we should support it. Any damage we can bring against the US's foreign empire is worth the support, no doubt.

[Ligeia]

Regular visitors to Spiegel Online, the website of German news magazine and Wikileaks (http://www.techeye.net/company/wikileaks) collaborator Der Spiegel, will by now have noticed the frontpage and content of Monday's issue is not yet up. The e-paper (http://www.techeye.net/topic/electronic-paper) edition has also not yet been released. "For editorial reasons the e-paper edition of the new Spiegel 48/2010 is only available from Sunday, 22.30 pm (http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/vorab/)", subscribers are informed. CET stands for Central European Time, naturally.

This is highly unusual and, in light of the expected release, it seems rather safe to say the new edition's content is embargoed until 22.30 CET, tomorrow, and will most probably deal with the tens of thousands of US (http://www.techeye.net/topic/usa) diplomatic cables leaked to Wikileaks early this year.source (http://www.techeye.net/internet/global-history-to-change-sunday-22-30-cet)

And:


The much-awaited release of 2.8 million documents by whistleblower website Wikileaks contains 251,287 cables and 8,000 diplomatic directives which are classifed secret and not 'top Secret' says a leak that briefly appeared on German newspaper website Der Spiegel, according to WLcentral.org which is tracking the Wikileaks news.


It says the documents include:
* 251,287 cables and 8,000 diplomatic directives
* Except one cable from 1966, most are newer than 2004
* 9,005 documents are from the first two months of 2010
Der Spiegel was one among the few newspapers chosen by Wikileaks for the release of these documents. Others are The (http://hken.ibtimes.com/topics/detail/421/the-new-york-times/)New York (http://hken.ibtimes.com/topics/detail/456/new-york/) Times, The Guardian, Le Monde and El País.
The posting says half of the cables are not classifed, 40 percent are classified as "confidential" and only six percent or 15,652 dispatches as "secret."

source (http://hken.ibtimes.com/articles/86244/20101127/wikileaks-wlcentral-der-spiegel-diplomatic-cables-directives-leaks-secret-top-secret.htm)

And as a little addition:


Solo il 5% dei documenti che Wikileaks si appresta a pubblicare riguarderebbero l'Europa mentre la gran parte si riferirebbero a Medio Oriente e Asia.source (http://www.rainews24.rai.it/it/news.php?newsid=147800)

Only 5% about Europe, the rest will be about the middle East and Asia.

So much for now.

[Tzonteyotl]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1333532/U-S-warns-foreign-leaders-new-WikiLeaks-revelations-expose-corruption-allies-America-REALLY-thinks-friends.html


It has been claimed that a backlash by countries upset over the leaks may lead to U.S. diplomats being expelled.

The next release is expected to include thousands of diplomatic cables reporting allegations of corruption against politicians in Russia, Afghanistan and other Central Asian nations.
But there were no specific details as to the nature of the corruption allegations or which governments are involved.

However, according to the UK-based Arabic daily newspaper al-Hayat, the WikiLeaks release includes documents that show Turkey has helped Al Qaeda in Iraq - an extraordinary revelation which could kill off the country’s hopes of joining the EU.

Sooo... history changing not only in that it may further expose the US, but also other countries and their dirty deeds? Everyone seems to be focusing on the US getting its ass kicked (understandably), but if this "history changing" leak lives up to that claim, seems like it's going to be because it pisses off everyone for having exposed them.

[Rusty Shackleford]

http://www.hindustantimes.com/US-steps-up-pressure-on-WikiLeaks-warns-against-leak/Article1-631882.aspx

US steps up pressure on WikiLeaks, warns it against leak






The United States has rejected talks with WikiLeaks over its planned release of confidential US documents, saying the whistle-blower website was holding them in violation of US law. The US State Department late Saturday set out its position in a letter to WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange and his


attorney that was released to the media. "We will not engage in a negotiation regarding the further release or dissemination of illegally obtained US government classified materials," State Department legal adviser Harold Koh wrote.
"As you know, if any of the materials you intend to publish were provided by any government officials, or any intermediary without proper authorization, they were provided in violation of US law and without regard for the grave consequences of this action," Koh continued.
"As long as WikiLeaks holds such material, the violation of the law is ongoing."
WikiLeaks was reportedly hours away from releasing millions of confidential US diplomatic cables on Sunday as governments braced for the potential fallout.
/P>
Top US officials have raced to contain the damage in recent days by warning foreign ministries in more than a dozen countries, including key allies Australia, Britain, Canada, Israel and Turkey.

An independent French website reported that the leaks would be published simultaneously at 2130 GMT Sunday by several Western newspapers.

[Q]

So, just 14:45 hours to go as of this post :D

[Robocommie]

Getting antsy, damnit.

[Sasha]

extensive article not telling much news: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1333819/WikiLeaks-U-S-braced-damage-control-new-release.html
except that the US doesnt seem to know itself what is leaked since wikileaks was smart enough to move it encrypted or in hardcopy.
i'm still curious about the history changing bit, what most involved journalists are hinting at seem to be more embarassing than history changing but maybe they are playing it down until tonight to have an bigger scoop.

[Sasha]

anyway, only 4 hours more right?

[IndependentCitizen]

What time is it being released?!

[Sasha]

22.30 cet

[Jazzhands]

I feel...edgy. what do I do until then?

[EvilRedGuy]

I feel...edgy. what do I do until then?


Listen to North Korean music.

[Morgenstern]

This is just like Christmas Eve. You have no clue if Santa will bring you all the presents you wanted and also you hope your relatives don't give you shitty presents the next day. As a kid I could never sleep before Christmas Eve, I would wake up in the middle of the night hoping it was go time. This is Christmas Eve for the world.

[Leonid Brozhnev]

Wikileaks.org is being DDoS'd according to their Facebook/Twitter


We are currently under a mass distributed denial of service attack. (DDoS)
El Pais, Le Monde, Speigel, Guardian & NYT will publish many US embassy cables tonight, even if WikiLeaks goes down

[Tablo]

Silly. The papers already got the stuff so it is pointless.

[Leonid Brozhnev]

DDoSing is such a butthurt-nerd-kicked-from-a-mmorpg-clan thing to do...

[Pretty Flaco]

I'm surprised more extensive means haven't been used to counter WikiLeaks so far.

[Sasha]

an flammish newspaper is saying the total leak might be as big as 3 million documents, 250.000 of wich is already given to the journalists

[Blackscare]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/all


Starting to come out now.

Putting little bits of tweeted material here as I see it, and my own bits of info as I look through what's there:

"King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia has repeatedly urged the United States to attack Iran"

Description of a few leaders: Vladimir Putin "alpha-dog", Hamid Karzai "driven by paranoia" Angela Merkel "avoids risk and is rarely creative"

(more to come, these are pretty trivial but the first info that popped out at me)

[freepalestine]

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=336629


World braces for Wikileaks flood of US cables
Published today (updated) 28/11/2010 11:53







By Joseph Krauss

WASHINGTON (AFP) -- The whistle-blower website Wikileaks was reportedly hours away from releasing millions of confidential US diplomatic cables Sunday, with several governments fearing damaging revelations.

Top US officials have raced to contain the damage in recent days by warning foreign ministries in more than a dozen countries, including key allies Australia, Britain, Canada, Israel and Turkey.

But Washington late Saturday rejected talks with WikiLeaks, saying the website was holding them in violation of US law.

In a letter to Wikileaks founder Julian Assange and his attorney that was released to the media, the US State Department also said the planned leak would endanger the lives of "countless innocent individuals."

"We will not engage in a negotiation regarding the further release or dissemination of illegally obtained US government classified materials," State Department legal adviser Harold Koh wrote.

US officials said this was in response to a letter Assange had sent to the State Department on Friday, in which he had tried to address US concerns that the planned release of classified documents placed individual persons at risk.

In his letter, Assange said he wanted information regarding individuals who might be "at significant risk of harm" because of WikiLeaks's actions, the officials said.

It was not immediately clear what other offers, if any, Assange's letter contained.

An independent French website owni.fr reported that the leaks would be published simultaneously at 2130 GMT Sunday by several Western newspapers.

The website previously launched an interface allowing the public to search the Iraq war logs published by Wikileaks in October.

It said the New York Times, Britain's The Guardian, Germany's Der Spiegel, Spain's El Pais and France's Le Monde would release their first analysis of the documents late Sunday, with leaks expected to trickle out before then.

The website said Der Spiegel had published the number of documents online Saturday for a few minutes before removing them, saying the release would include 251,287 diplomatic cables, including 16,652 marked "secret."

Wikileaks has not specified the documents' contents or when they would be put online, but a Pentagon spokesman said officials were expecting a release early this week.

The website has said there would be "seven times" as many secret documents as the 400,000 Iraq war logs released last month.

The top US military commander, Admiral Mike Mullen, urged Wikileaks to stop its "extremely dangerous" release of documents, according to a transcript of a CNN interview set to air Sunday.

In London, the government has urged British newspaper editors to "bear in mind" the national security implications of publishing any of the files.

British officials said some information might be subject to voluntary agreements between the government and the media to withhold sensitive data governing military operations and the intelligence services.

Russia's respected Kommersant newspaper has said the documents included US diplomats' conversations with Russian politicians and "unflattering" assessments of some of them.

Turkish media said they included papers suggesting that Ankara helped Al-Qaeda militants in Iraq and that the United States helped Iraq-based Kurdish rebels fighting against Turkey -- potentially explosive revelations for the two allies.

Australia on Saturday condemned the whistle-blower website, saying the "reckless" disclosure could endanger individuals named in the documents as well as the national security interests of the United States and its allies.

US officials have not confirmed the source of the leaked documents, but suspicion has fallen on Bradley Manning, a former army intelligence agent.

He was arrested after the earlier release of a video showing air strikes that killed civilian reporters in Baghdad.

Wired magazine said Manning confessed to the leaks during a webchat in May. He was quoted as saying he had acted out of idealism after watching Iraqi police detain men for distributing a "scholarly critique" against corruption.

Wikileaks argues that the first two document dumps -- US military incident reports from 2004 to 2009 -- shed light on the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. They included allegations of torture by Iraqi forces and reports that suggested 15,000 additional civilian deaths in Iraq.





Britain prepares for Wikileaks barrage
Published today (updated) 28/11/2010 15:18



LONDON (AFP) -- Britain was readying Sunday for the flood of secret US diplomatic cables about to be published by the Wikileaks website, with politicians gearing up to hear what US officials really thought of them.

Prime Minister David Cameron's governing Conservative-Liberal coalition and members of the former Labour administrations of his predecessors Gordon Brown and Tony Blair were bracing for the flood of millions of documents.

Some Sunday newspapers quoted government sources as saying that whatever might be coming about Cameron and his coalition, it was nothing compared to what US officials thought of his predecessor Brown.

Several reports said that US ambassador Louis Susman had briefed British officials about the likely contents of the files, amid fears the cables will embarrass both the United States and its allies.

The documents could include reports from officials in Washington and diplomatic posts around the world about issues on which Britain and the United States have collaborated closely, including the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Sunday Times newspaper quoted one government official as warning that British citizens in Muslim countries could be targeted in a violent backlash over any perceived "anti-Islamic" views expressed.

"The concern of the UK government is that some of the diplomatic conversations may contain certain phrases [critical] of certain sensitive places by either the US or us in which Britain might be portrayed as being hand in glove with the Great Satan to attack Islam," the official was quoted as saying.

"There is a nervousness that that might inflame the hotheads."

The Ministry of Defense has urged newspaper editors to "bear in mind" the national security implications of publishing any of the files.

British officials said some information might be subject to voluntary agreements between the government and the media to withhold sensitive data governing military operations and the intelligence services.

Britain's biggest-selling newspaper the News of the World said WikiLeaks' Australian founder had a heavy responsibility on his shoulders.

"Computer nerd Julian Assange is on the run this weekend as he prepares to post stolen state secrets on the Internet," the tabloid said in its editorial.

"Things have got a little to hot for the self-styled 'James Bond of journalism'.

"But there may be no hiding place for the hundreds of brave souls his WikiLeaks website threatens to expose."

The Mail on Sunday editorial said there was a "grim irony" in the latest WikiLeaks disclosures.

"Modern states have been great enthusiasts for recording the details of their subjects on databases, brusquely ignoring fears that such things endanger privacy," the tabloid said.

"But had these matters been kept out of vulnerable databases, the problem almost certainly would not have arisen, at least on this scale."

The Sunday Express newspaper said governments needed to get to grips with the fact that it was now harder to keep communications secret in the Internet age.
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=336569




WikiLeaks says it is under cyber attack
Published today 19:34



LONDON (AFP) -- WikiLeaks said Sunday it was under a cyber attack but stressed this would not stop the publication of classified US documents, in a message on Twitter.

"We are currently under a mass distributed denial of service attack," the whistle-blower website said in a statement on its Twitter feed, just hours before an expected mass release of the documents.

But it insisted that the Spanish, French, German, British and US newspapers that were planning to publish the information later Sunday would go ahead, in the face of strong opposition from the United States.

"El Pais, Le Monde, Spiegel, Guardian and NYT (the New York Times) will publish many US embassy cables tonight, even if WikiLeaks goes down," it said.

The WikiLeaks website was not immediately accessible.

Earlier, WikiLeaks chief Julian Assange said the document release would cover "every major issue in every country in the world."

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=336882

[Sasha]

note to british users, the guardian will not publish material about british politicians because of libel-laws so also check what the NYtimes write about that.

[Sasha]

usefull map interface of the leak by the the guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-wikileaks

[Sasha]

lots of details mentioned in this:

The job of the media is not to protect power from embarrassment

It is for governments – not journalists – to guard public secrets, and there is no national jeopardy in WikiLeaks' revelations






Share3 (http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.guardian.co.uk%2Fcom mentisfree%2F2010%2Fnov%2F28%2Fus-embassy-cables-wikileaks&t=The%20US%20embassy%20cables%20%7C%20Simon%20Jenk ins%20%7C%20Comment%20is%20free%20%7C%20The%20Guar dian&src=sp)
http://static.guim.co.uk/static/97220/common/styles/images/icon_reddit.gif (http://reddit.com/submit?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.guardian.co.uk%2Fcomme ntisfree%2F2010%2Fnov%2F28%2Fus-embassy-cables-wikileaks)
http://static.guim.co.uk/static/97220/common/styles/images/icon_buzz.gif (http://uk.buzz.yahoo.com/buzz?publisherurn=the_guardian665&targetUrl=http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-wikileaks&summary=%3Cstrong%3ESimon+Jenkins%3A%3C%2Fstrong%3 E+It+is+for+governments+%E2%80%93+not+journalists+ %E2%80%93+to+guard+public+secrets%2C+and+there+is+ no+national+jeopardy+in+WikiLeaks%27+revelations&headline=%20The%20US%20embassy%20cables%20%7C%20Si mon%20Jenkins%20%7C%20Comment%20is%20free%20%7C%20 The%20Guardian)

Comments (5) (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-wikileaks#start-of-comments)




http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/contributor/2007/10/03/simon_jenkins_140x140.jpg (http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/simonjenkins)


Simon Jenkins (http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/simonjenkins)
guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/), Sunday 28 November 2010 18.30 GMT
Article history (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-wikileaks#history-link-box)


Is it justified? Should a newspaper disclose virtually all a nation's secret diplomatic communication, illegally downloaded by one of its citizens? The reporting in tomorrow's Guardian of the first of a selection of 250,000 US state department cables marks a recasting of modern diplomacy. Clearly, there is no longer such a thing as a safe electronic archive, whatever computing's snake-oil salesmen claim. No organisation can treat digitised communication as confidential. An electronic secret is a contradiction in terms.
Anything said or done in the name of a democracy is, prima facie, of public interest. When that democracy purports to be "world policeman" – an assumption that runs ghostlike through these cables – that interest is global. Nonetheless, the Guardian had to consider two things in abetting disclosure, irrespective of what is anyway published by WikiLeaks. It could not be party to putting the lives of individuals or sources at risk, nor reveal material that might compromise ongoing military operations or the location of special forces.
In this light, two backup checks were applied. The US government was told in advance the areas or themes covered, and "representations" were invited in return. These were considered. Details of "redactions" were then shared with the other four media recipients of the material and sent to WikiLeaks itself, to establish, albeit voluntarily, some common standard.
The state department knew of the leak several months ago and had ample time to alert staff in sensitive locations. Its pre-emptive scaremongering over the weekend stupidly contrived to hint at material not in fact being published. Nor is the material classified top secret, being at a level that more than 3 million US government employees are cleared to see, and available on the defence department's internal Siprnet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIPRNet). Such dissemination of "secrets" might be thought reckless, suggesting a diplomatic outreach that makes the British empire seem miniscule.
The revelations do not have the startling, coldblooded immediacy of the WikiLeaks war logs from Iraq (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/28/iraq-war-logs-media-reaction) and Afghanistan (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/the-war-logs), with their astonishing insight into the minds of fighting men seemingly detached from the ethics of war. Tomorrow's disclosures are largely of analysis and high-grade gossip. Insofar as they are sensational, it is in showing the corruption and mendacity of those in power, and the mismatch between what they claim and what they do.
Few will be surprised to know that Vladimir Putin runs the world's most sensational kleptocracy, that the Saudis wanted the Americans to bomb Iran, or that Pakistan's ISI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-Services_Intelligence) is hopelessly involved with Taliban groups of fiendish complexity. We now know that Washington knows too. The full extent of American dealings with Yemen might upset that country's government, but is hardly surprising. If it is true that the Pentagon targeted refugee camps for bombing, it should be of general concern. American congressmen might also be interested in the sums of money given to certain foreign generals supposedly to pay for military equipment.
The job of the media is not to protect power from embarrassment. If American spies are breaking United Nations rules by seeking the DNA biometrics of the UN director general, he is entitled to hear of it. British voters should know what Afghan leaders thought of British troops. American (and British) taxpayers might question, too, how most of the billions of dollars going in aid to Afghanistan simply exits the country at Kabul airport.
No harm is done by high-class chatter about President Nicolas Sarkozy's vulgarity and lack of house-training, or about the British royal family. What the American embassy in London thinks about the coalition suggests not an alliance at risk but an embassy with a talent problem.
Some stars shine through the banality. America's envoy to Russia, John Beyrle, writes a John le Carré account of attending a Dagestan wedding. The heroic envoy in Islamabad, Anne Patterson, pleads that Washington's whole policy is counterproductive: it "risks destabilising the Pakistani state, alienating both the civilian government and the military leadership, and provoking a broader governance crisis without finally achieving the goal". Nor is any amount of money going to bribe the Taliban to our side. Patterson's cables are like missives from the Titanic as it already heads for the bottom.
The money‑wasting is staggering. Aid payments are never followed, never audited, never evaluated. The impression is of the world's superpower roaming helpless in a world in which nobody behaves as bidden. Iran, Russia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen, the United Nations, are all perpetually off script. Washington reacts like a wounded bear, its instincts imperial but its power projection unproductive.
America's foreign policy is revealed as a slave to rightwing drift, terrified of a bomb exploding abroad or of a pro-Israeli congressman at home. If the cables tell of the progress to war over Iran or Pakistan or Gaza or Yemen, their revelation might help debate the inanity of policies which, as Patterson says, seem to be leading in just that direction. Perhaps we can now see how catastrophe unfolds when there is time to avert it, rather than having to await a Chilcot report (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/iraq-war-inquiry) after the event. If that is not in the public's interest, I fail to see what is.
Clearly, it is for governments, not journalists, to protect public secrets. Were there some overriding national jeopardy in revealing them, greater restraint might be in order. There is no such overriding jeopardy, except from the policies themselves as revealed. Where it is doing the right thing, a great power should be robust against embarrassment.
What this saga must do is alter the basis of diplomatic reporting. If WikiLeaks can gain access to secret material, by whatever means, so presumably can a foreign power. Words on paper can be made secure, electronic archives not. The leaks have blown a hole in the framework by which states guard their secrets. The Guardian material must be a breach of th e official secrets acts. But coupled with the penetration already allowed under freedom of information, the walls round policy formation and documentation are all but gone. All barriers are permeable. In future the only secrets will be spoken ones. Whether that is a good thing should be a topic for public debate.




http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-wikileaks

[TwoSevensClash]

So far these leaks blow

I mean everyone knows the Saudis want Israel and the US to wipe out Iran.

[Widerstand]

So far these leaks blow

The espionage stuff against Ban-Ki is pretty derp, but nothing too shocking, yeah.

[FreeFocus]

Yeah, spying on the UN Secretary-General is a major violation of international law. The strong hostility of the Arab states to Iranian regional ambitions, including nuclear ambitions, will probably result in domestic backlashes, as will Egypt's working with Israel to pressure Hamas.

Hopefully more intriguing stuff is released later. This was only 250,000 documents out of like 2 million I think.

[Blackscare]

Keep in mind this is the teaser stuff sent to various newspapers of uncertain-at-best trustworthiness.

Also this is the result of what, a half a weekend of review of some 250,000 documents by a few editors? The stuff available for us to look over right now isn't even the whole collection of what they have, let alone what is supposed to come out.

[Aurora]

Iran has long range missiles bought from N. Korea appearently. Bahrain, Saudi Arabia and Jordan all urged the US to go to war with Iran.

[Sasha]

the fact that the saudi king was not only supporting but urging an atack on iran is quite explosive, and that putin is in bed with the mafia is also not nothing

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

note to british users, the guardian will not publish material about british politicians because of libel-laws so also check what the NYtimes write about that.

You got a link pal?

[Sasha]

havent found anything up on the NYtimes site yet about it, just an reference on the guardian site that they wont publish it.


During the course of working on the material over many weeks each publication has formed its own individual judgments about specific stories. There are some cables the Guardian will not be releasing or reporting owing to the nature of sourcing or subject matter. Our domestic libel laws impose a special burden on British publishers. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/editors-note-wikileaks-embassy-cables)

[Blackscare]

But yea the amount that the gaurdian has put up is pretty trivial, I'm already done skimming :/

[Blackscare]

The Iranians would also prefer to get fuel from the U.S. rather than the Russians.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/235183


Some of this could be damaging to Iran, seeing how they basically are trying to leverage support from Russian and China whenever possible and rely on them rather heavily economically.

In fact I think that a lot of this could ultimately make it more likely that a war with Iran happen.

[freepalestine]

The espionage stuff against Ban-Ki is pretty derp, but nothing too shocking, yeah.
you should read more of them.
ive read a few on palestine,and its kind of showing what the u.s. are about.
ive yet to see any israeli stuff yet

[Sasha]

But yea the amount that the gaurdian has put up is pretty trivial, I'm already done skimming :/

note that they are going to put it up by region, so they start with documents primarly dealing with the midle east and then every day post more.
so what they now post might not be all by an long shot or for us the most intresting.
midle east politics go way over our head, but if there is some more dirt about burlosconi for example popular unrest could easily explode in italy, and mayor unrest now in any earopean country could easily flash over to other country's

[TwoSevensClash]

the fact that the saudi king was not only supporting but urging an atack on iran is quite explosive, and that putin is in bed with the mafia is also not nothing
But everyone already knew that the saudis want iran destroyed so its not a shocking revleation

[Sasha]

7.53pm:
Here is the New York Times laying out some of the topics (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/29/world/29cables.html?hp) it will cover in the coming days. They include a dangerous standoff with Pakistan over nuclear fuel, gaming out an eventual collapse of North Korea and allegations against China of global hacking.


7.43pm:
Here is a summary of all of today's stories from the Guardian's first day of coverage of this major story:
• The US faces a worldwide diplomatic crisis (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cable-leak-diplomacy-crisis). More than 250,000 classified cables from American embassies are leaked, many sent as recently as February.
• Saudi Arabia puts pressure on the US to attack Iran (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-saudis-iran). Other Arab allies have secretly agitated for military action against Tehran.
• Washington is running a secret intelligence campaign targeted at the leadership of the United Nations (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-saudis-iran), including the secretary general, Ban Ki-moon, and the permanent security council representatives from China, Russia, France and the UK.
• The round-the-clock offensive (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/united-states-iran-nuclear-weapons) by US government officials, politicians, diplomats and military officers to curb Iran's nuclear ambitions and roll back its advance across the Middle East.
• Israel regarded 2010 as a "critical year" (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/israel-primed-attack-nuclear-iran) for tackling Iran's alleged quest for nuclear weapons and has warned the United States that time is running out to stop Iran from acquiring a nuclear bomb.
• The secret EU plot to boycott the inauguration of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/eu-plot-boycott-ahmadinejad-inauguration) as president after the disputed Iranian election in 2009.
• IAEA officials denied blueprints (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/iran-lied-un-inspectors-qom-nuclear) and told by Iran that evidence of bomb-grade uranium enrichment was forged.
• Saudi Arabia complains directly to the Iranian foreign minister (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/arab-states-scorn-iranian-evil) of Iranian "meddling" in the Middle East.
• US accuses Iran of abusing the strict neutrality (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/iranian-spies-red-crescent-war) of the Iranian Red Crescent (IRC) society to smuggle intelligence agents and weapons into other countries, including Lebanon.
• Britain's ambassador to Iran gave the US a private masterclass (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/briton-us-diplomats-talk-iran) on how to negotiate with Iran.
• How a 75-year-old American of Iranian descent rode a horse over a freezing mountain range (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/american-escape-iran-horse-turkey) into Turkey after officials confiscated his passport.
• How the 250,000 US embassy cables were leaked (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/how-us-embassy-cables-leaked).
• Siprnet: where America stores its secret cables (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/siprnet-america-stores-secret-cables).
• Editor's note (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/editors-note-wikileaks-embassy-cables): publishing the cables.
• Browse the data base (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-wikileaks).



• There's plenty more to come, including "claims of inappropriate behaviour" by a British royal and allegations of links between Russia's government and organised crime.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2010/nov/28/wikileaks-us-embassy-cables-live-blog

[Q]

But everyone already knew that the saudis want iran destroyed so its not a shocking revleation

Everyone also knows that 9/11 stinks. Between "what everyone knows" and what is actually public information however, is a big difference.

(I'm not expecting anything juicy on 9/11 though, sadly, as there's nothing "top secret" inthere :( )

[Fulanito de Tal]

7.43pm:
Here is a summary of all of today's stories from the Guardian's first day of coverage of this major story:
• The US faces a worldwide diplomatic crisis. More than 250,000 classified cables from American embassies are leaked, many sent as recently as February.
• Saudi Arabia puts pressure on the US to attack Iran. Other Arab allies have secretly agitated for military action against Tehran.
• Washington is running a secret intelligence campaign targeted at the leadership of the United Nations, including the secretary general, Ban Ki-moon, and the permanent security council representatives from China, Russia, France and the UK.
• The round-the-clock offensive by US government officials, politicians, diplomats and military officers to curb Iran's nuclear ambitions and roll back its advance across the Middle East.
• Israel regarded 2010 as a "critical year" for tackling Iran's alleged quest for nuclear weapons and has warned the United States that time is running out to stop Iran from acquiring a nuclear bomb.
• The secret EU plot to boycott the inauguration of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad as president after the disputed Iranian election in 2009.
• IAEA officials denied blueprints and told by Iran that evidence of bomb-grade uranium enrichment was forged.
• Saudi Arabia complains directly to the Iranian foreign minister of Iranian "meddling" in the Middle East.
• US accuses Iran of abusing the strict neutrality of the Iranian Red Crescent (IRC) society to smuggle intelligence agents and weapons into other countries, including Lebanon.
• Britain's ambassador to Iran gave the US a private masterclass on how to negotiate with Iran.
• How a 75-year-old American of Iranian descent rode a horse over a freezing mountain range into Turkey after officials confiscated his passport.
• How the 250,000 US embassy cables were leaked.
• Siprnet: where America stores its secret cables.
• Editor's note: publishing the cables.
• Browse the data base.

Spying on the UN leadership!! Wow! And the permanent security council members! That's huge, no? :ohmy:

[Sasha]

But everyone already knew that the saudis want iran destroyed so its not a shocking revleation


Everyone also knows that 9/11 stinks. Between "what everyone knows" and what is actually public information however, is a big difference.

(I'm not expecting anything juicy on 9/11 though, sadly, as there's nothing "top secret" inthere :( )

but dont under estemate what impact this all could have on the dangerous games scores of midle eastern states have been playing by whipping up populair support through (as proven by this leaks) empthy rethoric about the palestinian cause.
if the people of any of these countrys get angry enough with its leaders about being duped the already delicate balance of power in the region could get upset.

[Sasha]

Spying on the UN leadership!! Wow! And the permanent security council members! That's huge, no? :ohmy:

yup, and orderd by mrs clinton herself.

[Jazzhands]

Spying on the UN leadership!! Wow! And the permanent security council members! That's huge, no? :ohmy:

That's really huge. This is definitely the most wildly illegal thing the US has done in a while.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/219058

This is the actual letter.

[GPDP]

http://knowyourmeme.com/system/icons/2974/original/shit_fan.jpg?1284754422

UNgate, anyone?

[RedAnarchist]

http://statelogs.owni.fr/ may be a useful site.

http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/ is also up now as well.

[F9]

They are saying there are shits for cyprus also, it would be "great" to find out of both turkey greece and us coordinated it.Allthough we already know that greek junta and their muppets down here had a hand on it, an official paper would be great to shove it up to fascists ass:D

[TwoSevensClash]

I must admit they have gotten better as the day has gone one. However Julian Assange is going to be killed or silenced soon.

[Leonid Brozhnev]

[snip]

UNgate, anyone?

Watergate entered my mind too...

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Elburro/STALKER/hillarynixon.jpg

[Morgenstern]

The soldier who got this information is a hero. We can only hope this information does something good. We need to spread this news.

But I'm sure the guy who got this is going somewhere in his best Steve Urkel impression... "Did I do that?"

[Sasha]

The soldier who got this information is a hero. We can only hope this information does something good. We need to spread this news.

But I'm sure the guy who got this is going somewhere in his best Steve Urkel impression... "Did I do that?"

sadly he propably has been in isolated confinement in an US jail for the last few months (it isnt yet proven that the guy they have arrested is the leak but lots of evidence say he is). chances are he doesnt even know that this story broke.

[maskerade]

aaaaah, i understand why they are releasing them so slowly...but for fucks sake, i need more!

[Quetzal]

Is any one of you absolutely sure there gonna be more documents being leaked?
I mean like 2 billion? Or are this 250.000 all?

[Sasha]

as far as i gathered wikileaks got several milion of these things and suplied the 4 newspapers with 250.000 of them. wheter or not wikileaks will publish them all or only the 250.000 is not clear to me.
note though what i said before that they are leaked in stages, so as it seems first about iran and the midle east and then other regions will follow

[Burn A Flag]

I can't wait to rub this shit in people's faces. Another eye opener to those petit bourgeois idiots to what the utopia they love so much really is and does.

[Sasha]

2.745 of the documents come from the US embassy in the hague, sadly non of them are published yet... :crying:

[Fulanito de Tal]

as far as i gathered wikileaks got several milion of these things and suplied the 4 newspapers with 250.000 of them. wheter or not wikileaks will publish them all or only the 250.000 is not clear to me.
note though what i said before that they are leaked in stages, so as it seems first about iran and the midle east and then other regions will follow

Also, WikiLeaks stated that this leak will be history changing and nothing so far has had such an impact, so I'm expecting more juicyness to come.

Anyone else? Am I getting my hopes up for nothing?

[Tzonteyotl]

Wikileaks is the goat staked at the bottom of the big mountain to keep the wolves busy on the lower slopes and away from the bigger prey higher up.

That's a comment left by someone on the Guardian's blog page about the leaks. Regardless of whether or not the leaks get "better" as time passes, I thought this comment was interesting. Insofar as some of us here are eagerly awaiting the big release, an analogy of wikileaks as entertainment for an already frustrated public is quite fitting, I'd say. I mean, what are the odds that this release does truly shake world politics to its core? What concrete action will be brought forth from the American public? The Iraq and Afghanistan leaks did little if anything it seems, other than bring out military officials to scold wikileaks. Maybe this release will do more, but who knows.

[Morgenstern]

Well I kept MSNBC on to see how the MSM takes care of this. Sadly it's documentary Sunday... But they do have news flashes in commercials and they quickly mentioned it having government sensitive material. It's no surprise the MSM isn't really reporting, but I will hold my rant until we have a dedicated news program on and they have time to 'report' it.

[scarletghoul]

Wow, this is interesting.

[Tablo]

I think some of these would be history changing to some degree if they weren't all common knowledge.

[The Vegan Marxist]

The US spying on the UN's definitely going to change something. We know that for damn sure.

[Tzonteyotl]

I think some of these would be history changing to some degree if they weren't all common knowledge.

Common knowledge for who, though? We might have known about some of these things already. But the general public may not have. Either way, what anyone does about it, only time will tell.

[Wanted Man]

Shit just got real. While I don't think it's necessarily "world-changing", stuff like the UN espionage is quite a shocker. I wonder what we'll see in the next few days.

Unfortunately, none of the Dutch cables have been released yet, so we do not yet know what kind of hilarious qualifications were no doubt applied to our PM ("Mr. Balkenenenenenende you say? Of the Nether-what???).

[Tzonteyotl]

I don't mean to be a damper, but is the UN espionage issue really that big a surprise?

[The Vegan Marxist]

I don't mean to be a damper, but is the UN espionage issue really that big a surprise?

To the UN it more than likely will.

[Widerstand]

The US is the biggest UN investor and has veto power in the security council. It's also quite the only power capable of unilateral fuck-you-I-won't-do-what-you-tell-me campaigns. One doc revealed that Angela and Sarkozy are very US friendly (that was an old one), and a Dutch website cites docs portraying Verhagen as US friendly (http://www.hpdetijd.nl/2010-11-28/wikileaks-maxime-verhagen-will-be-a-solid-and-effective-friend-i).

Just what do you folks expect to happen? All the US' allies turning from them? Them being expelled from the UN? Sanctions? UN reforms? Investigations? Sounds pretty utopic. They'll condemn it at best.

[Quetzal]

Julian Assange, the founder of WikiLeaks, has said the release of the classified documents by the whistle-blower website will amount to a "diplomatic history" of global affairs.

"The material that we are about to release covers essentially every major issue in every country," Assange told reporters in Jordan by video link from an undisclosed location on Sunday.

WikiLeaks has said the newest release will be seven times the size of the October publication of 400,000 Iraq war documents, the biggest leak to date in US intelligence history.

The full set consists of 251,287 documents, comprising 261,276,536 words (seven times the size of "The Iraq War Logs", the world's previously largest classified information release)

So these 250 000 documents the newspapers have are probaly all?

[Sasha]

I think some of these would be history changing to some degree if they weren't all common knowledge.


I don't mean to be a damper, but is the UN espionage issue really that big a surprise?

i understand peoples initial dissapointment but lets look at this past that.
we are talking about 250.000 of these cables, if you look at wat wikileaks released today that is about 5 pages of 50 cables each, thats only 250 cables.
its pretty clear that wikileaks want to make this an long term event and not an 1 day newsflash. logic dictates then that they start with some juicy bits but not the top-notch stuff, maybe this is wishfull thinking, but i expect (also based on my experience in both creating media hypes through actvism and classical theatre dramaturgy) increasingly more dammaing stuff for the comming days building up to an big bang, then some mediocre stuff and then some very good bits again just when the oposition thought it was almost over and the worst has past. thats at least how i would do it and it pretty obvious that the wikileaks folk thought this whole operation through for a while.

also, the majority of the cables seem to originate in turkey and/or are about the iraqi war.
we havent seen almost anything about those countrys yet, if stuff comes out that either upsets the midle east in a big way or that will result in keeping turkey (an valued NATO member) out of the EU than that will be an history changing moment

[Sasha]

the guardian is saying that tomorow they are going to release stuff about north korea and the UK.
so again dont get dissapointed to fast folk, it seems this is going to be an long one.

[FreeFocus]

Would Turkey lending support to al-Qaeda in Iraq be enough to keep it out of the EU? Could that lead to a rise of even state-sponsored Islamophobia?

[TwoSevensClash]

Common knowledge for who, though? We might have known about some of these things already. But the general public may not have. Either way, what anyone does about it, only time will tell.
I hate to say it most people don't give shit. Most people I talked to are mad about the fact that this stuff was leaked not the actually information.

[Amphictyonis]

I hate to say it most people don't give shit. Most people I talked to are mad about the fact that this stuff was leaked not the actually information.
most people are idiots.

[Sosa]

http://www.cubadebate.cu/noticias/2010/11/28/wikileaks-desnuda-politica-exterior-de-eeuu-revelan-esfuerzos-para-aislar-a-chavez-y-vigilar-a-diplomaticos-cubanos/

Cuba's take on the leaks speaking on Italia's PM "wild parties" and trying to isolate Chavez, etc.

[Quetzal]

cablegate.wikileaks.org/cable/2006/08/06MOSCOW9533.html

This is a sick Oligarch wedding! Politics in the Caucasus...

"Gadzhi has cashed in the social capital he made from
nationalism, translating it into financial and political
capital -- as head of Dagestan’s state oil company and as the
single-mandate representative for Makhachkala in Russia’s
State Duma. His dealings in the oil business -- including
close cooperation with U.S. firms -- have left him well off
enough to afford luxurious houses in Makhachkala, Kaspiysk,
Moscow, Paris and San Diego; and a large collection of luxury
automobiles, including the Rolls Royce Silver Phantom in
which Dalgat fetched Aida from her parents’ reception."
...
The Dagestani milieu appears
to be one in which the highly educated and the gun-toting can
mix easily -- often in the same person.
...
The alcohol consumption before, during and
after this Muslim wedding was stupendous. Amidst an alcohol
shortage, Gadzhi had flown in from the Urals thousands of
bottles of Beluga Export vodka (“Best consumed with caviar”).
...
Every so often someone
would shower the dancers with money -- there were some
thousand ruble notes but the currency of choice was the U.S.
hundred dollar bill. The floor was covered with them; young
children would scoop the money up to distribute among the
dancers.
...
Most of the tables were set with the usual dishes plus whole roast
sturgeons and sheep. But at 8:00 p.m. the compound was
invaded by dozens of heavily armed mujahedin for the grand
entrance of Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov
...
First Gadzhi joined them and then
Ramzan, who danced clumsily with his gold-plated automatic
stuck down in the back of his jeans

Gadzhi told us later that Ramzan had brought the happy couple “a five
kilo lump of gold” as his wedding present. After the dancing
and a quick tour of the premises, Ramzan and his army drove
off back to Chechnya.

[Tzonteyotl]

I hate to say it most people don't give shit. Most people I talked to are mad about the fact that this stuff was leaked not the actually information.

Which is why I said what I did in a previous post. Those who are waiting for the leaks as a way of saying "I told you so!" or something along those lines will get to say that. Others may be upset, but likely do nothing. Others just won't care. And then there are those as you mention who aren't upset about any stunning revelations but rather are outraged that the leak took place. Seems that at this point, any big action that results from this will be responses by other countries as opposed to the American people going after US leaders. Even then there are the issues Widerstand raised, so I'm not getting my hopes up about all of this.

[FreeFocus]

Of course Americans aren't going to make a political issue out of this. The other leaks, demonstrating American use of torture definitively and ignoring Iraqi abuses, was not even made an issue. In an even semi-functioning democracy, those would have been major issues and there would have been backlash against the Republican Party for it. Instead, the GOP won in landslide victories. Abhorrent.

[Pavlov's House Party]

Of course Americans aren't going to make a political issue out of this. The other leaks, demonstrating American use of torture definitively and ignoring Iraqi abuses, was not even made an issue. In an even semi-functioning democracy, those would have been major issues and there would have been backlash against the Republican Party for it. Instead, the GOP won in landslide victories. Abhorrent.

I agree with you that most Americans are not going to take this as a serious political issue, but remember that the American media from which most of the population gets their news will portray the leak as a terrorist act against the USA. The real reactions will be overseas, my bets in Europe (especially if they release stuff about Berlusconi being in bed with the mafia).

[Tzonteyotl]

I agree with you that most Americans are not going to take this as a serious political issue, but remember that the American media from which most of the population gets their news will portray the leak as a terrorist act against the USA. The real reactions will be overseas, my bets in Europe (especially if they release stuff about Berlusconi being in bed with the mafia).

If they get truly exposed to it at all. While it was just one of four local (English that is, may have been different on the Spanish stations) stations, they gave the leak only 20 seconds mention before sports on the channel my mom happened to be watching. Not exactly enough to spark an outcry. The national news stations like CNN are probably different, but for people without cable...

[Kiev Communard]

The information about the Saudis urging the U.S. to attack Iran and about "special relationship" between Putinists and Berluskoni is especially ...revealing. Howeverm judging from the fact that almost everyone with knowledge on these subjects had some clue on it before, it is not really sensation either.

[Widerstand]

If they get truly exposed to it at all. While it was just one of four local (English that is, may have been different on the Spanish stations) stations, they gave the leak only 20 seconds mention before sports on the channel my mom happened to be watching. Not exactly enough to spark an outcry. The national news stations like CNN are probably different, but for people without cable...

Don't think that's an issue really. It may take some time to spread, but don't underestimate human communication. In a circle of, say, 50 acquaintances, pretty much only one person needs to know about it and be eager about it, and everyone else will hear about it at some point.

Give it time.

[Peace on Earth]

I agree with you that most Americans are not going to take this as a serious political issue, but remember that the American media from which most of the population gets their news will portray the leak as a terrorist act against the USA. The real reactions will be overseas, my bets in Europe (especially if they release stuff about Berlusconi being in bed with the mafia).
The Fox news crowd is, and has been, calling for Assange's head on a platter. The amount of reactionaries in the Fox News HQ is astonishing. I don't think any major American media (television, print, radio) has come out definitively for Wikileaks, Assange, and their mission. Most take a cautious tone that looks at Assange like a demi-god who has too much power.

[maskerade]

A republic senator has called on Wikileaks to be branded a terrorist organisation :laugh:
I think I might've predicted this...

[Wanted Man]

The leaks have confirmed the long-standing suspicion that there are still American nukes in the Netherlands, something that has never been publicly admitted.

[DecDoom]

There's going to be some interesting leaks regarding Nepal, considering what these commenters on Kasama said...


I noticed that the above graph mentions over 4,000 dispatches to Nepal, but I can’t find the new leak on the wikileak site itself. Are there documents regarding Nepal on the site? Can anyone provide a link to the new leaks?


Eric: Most of the cables haven’t been transcribed and posted yet. Realistically, it will probably be weeks or months until they all are. Playing around with the Guardian database however, I’ve noted a few things about the Nepal cables.

They start at in 1995, but really start to pick up around 2002. Out of about 2600, almost 1200 are tagged with PTER (Prevention of Terrorism). There are 339 with the specific tag “Maoist” or “Maoist Insurgency”. These begin in 2002, and end in late 2005 (consistent with the history of the People’s War). There are 118 cables tagged MASS (Military Assistance and Sales), mostly in 2005 and 2006. There are 149 tagged MARR (Military and Defense Arrangements), which seem to begin in earnest in late 2005 and continue to 2010. Only one tagged PROP (Propaganda/Psyops), which based on the other tags seems to have been directed at Tibetan refugees in 2002. There’s another tag, KDEM, which is not identified in the Guardian’s glossary, that appears 339 times, starting in 2004, but most commonly after 2006.

But thus far, I’ve really only begun picking apart what any of this means. Most likely we will have to wait until the full cables are posted to find out anything definitive.

[punisa]

Hello comrades, is there any way to browse the files for a specific country?
I went to http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/index.html and discovered that there are cca 2000 documents filed under my country but I can't seem to find any "browse" button or similar.
Or is this just an introduction and records will be revealed over the upcoming weeks?
Thanks

Btw, the news of documents being leaked sent a massive panic wave through the region of ex Yugoslavia.

[Widerstand]

Not all have been released yet (I think around 260 of 250k are out). You can browse by origin, which is the originating embassy.

[Delenda Carthago]

How do we know these leaks are real?

[Sosa]

How do we know these leaks are real?

For one all these governments are scrambling to do damage control

[Morgenstern]

In the USA there seems to be no real damage. MSNBC this morning wasn't talking about the content but rather the fact of how horrible the person was for releasing this. The American media won't report the whole truth, nothing new there.

[freepalestine]

How do we know these leaks are real?i suspect they are.
and that the us govt themselves have released the documents.

[Tzonteyotl]

In the USA there seems to be no real damage. MSNBC this morning wasn't talking about the content but rather the fact of how horrible the person was for releasing this. The American media won't report the whole truth, nothing new there.

Which is to be expected, of course. Secretary Clinton's statement was of course along those lines. Hopefully enough people will see through the bullshit.

[Tzonteyotl]

i suspect they are.
and that the us govt themselves have released the documents.

That's an eerie suspicion some of us have been having, I'm sure. How convenient it would be now to tighten security and monitoring activists and organizations, etc. Even it wasn't intentional though, it's still an opportunity for them to take these measures.

[Widerstand]

i suspect they are.
and that the us govt themselves have released the documents.

Quite frankly, this is a possibility, especially because, so far, they mostly were reinforcing the anti-Iran propaganda and didn't offer anything shocking besides that.

But I say we wait until more gets released - 0,1% is way too early to make such assumptions.

[Morgenstern]

Which is to be expected, of course. Secretary Clinton's statement was of course along those lines. Hopefully enough people will see through the bullshit.

Sadly hoping doesn't do anything. We always hope that people will do stuff or see stuff. Most parties outside the mainstream whether left or right say that. The White Nationalists pray that people 'wake up' while we hope people 'see through the bullshit'. I believe that nothing will happen in the USA. I was excited and had faith for a past wikileak, where it shows the slaughter of Iraqis on video. Yet nothing happened. I lost hope sadly, the future of US Communism comes down to either a very strong Vanguard or movements being powerful in other western nations.

[freepalestine]

Quite frankly, this is a possibility, especially because, so far, they mostly were reinforcing the anti-Iran propaganda and didn't offer anything shocking besides that.

But I say we wait until more gets released - 0,1% is way too early to make such assumptions.
0.1%-
so how many in real numbers have been released so far,and how many altogether will be?

[revolution inaction]

Hello comrades, is there any way to browse the files for a specific country?
I went to http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/index.html and discovered that there are cca 2000 documents filed under my country but I can't seem to find any "browse" button or similar.
Or is this just an introduction and records will be revealed over the upcoming weeks?
Thanks

Btw, the news of documents being leaked sent a massive panic wave through the region of ex Yugoslavia.

try searching for the name of the city where hte us has its embersy

[Sosa]

Clinton says U.S. diplomacy will survive wikileaks "attack"


But Mrs. Clinton said she was confident, based on conversations in recent days with foreign ministers of several countries, that the administration’s relationships with other governments would survive any upheaval.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/30/world/30reax.html?_r=1&src=fbmain

[Jazzhands]

Hello comrades, is there any way to browse the files for a specific country?
I went to http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/index.html and discovered that there are cca 2000 documents filed under my country but I can't seem to find any "browse" button or similar.

On the guardian website, there's a map of the world with dots for any country that was mentioned in one of the reports or that originated a report. You'll be interested to know that on the UN spying directive I posted earlier, Croatia is mentioned dozens of times on a list that comes after each part of the order. Presumably those are the countries with UN liaisons to spy on to find information on each required topic.


Btw, the news of documents being leaked sent a massive panic wave through the region of ex Yugoslavia.

Can you explain more? Croatia was the only country I saw mentioned repeatedly in the reports.

[Sosa]

North Korea (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/northkorea/index.html?inline=nyt-geo) reeling from economic and succession crises, American and South Korean officials early this year secretly began gaming out what would happen if the North, led by one of the world’s most brutal family dynasties, collapsed.


Over an official lunch in late February, a top South Korean official confidently told the American ambassador, Kathleen Stephens, that the fall would come “two to three years” after the death of Kim Jong-il (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/k/_kim_jong_il/index.html?inline=nyt-per), the country’s ailing leader, Ms. Stephens later cabled Washington. A new, younger generation of Chinese leaders “would be comfortable with a reunited Korea controlled by Seoul and anchored to the United States in a benign alliance,” the diplomat, Chun Yung-woo, predicted.




http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/30/world/asia/30korea.html?src=fbmain

[Blackscare]

That's an eerie suspicion some of us have been having, I'm sure. How convenient it would be now to tighten security and monitoring activists and organizations, etc. Even it wasn't intentional though, it's still an opportunity for them to take these measures.


I'm going to go ahead and assume that the government is smart enough not to totally shoot itself in the foot with international relations so that they can have more of an excuse to watch activists.


Just saying.

[Rusty Shackleford]

god damnit china.

[manic expression]

Sadly hoping doesn't do anything. We always hope that people will do stuff or see stuff. Most parties outside the mainstream whether left or right say that. The White Nationalists pray that people 'wake up' while we hope people 'see through the bullshit'. I believe that nothing will happen in the USA. I was excited and had faith for a past wikileak, where it shows the slaughter of Iraqis on video. Yet nothing happened. I lost hope sadly, the future of US Communism comes down to either a very strong Vanguard or movements being powerful in other western nations.
This kind of stuff isn't going to "wake up" American workers. Within the US, these leaks are mostly useful for slowly draining Obama's support...the left wing of the Democrats are already not happy with his administration, and this kind of stuff will create more tension and anger on that end, which should help nudge more people leftward. The American masses, as a whole, are still digesting the fact that the American Dream has been dead for decades, that Hope and Change is not on the way, that their only option is class struggle. It's bigger than one spark, I think.

[Rafiq]

My morning announcements stated "Wiki-leaks is violating international law by putting the diplomatic relations of Countries, along with the safety of others, at risk".

[RedStarOverChina]

China is pissed at N. Korea. No surprises there. It's also not exactly a secret that Kim Jong-il secretly hates China, because he relies on China so much.

I think what really ticked off the Chinese leadership was N. Korea's willingness to play the US against China, like making secret deals with the US, etc.

[Red Commissar]

How long are they planning to release these? I know that these diplomatic cables are going to be released gradually over time rather than all at once, and I would be interested in seeing some stuff relating to the east- North Korea, the Maoists in Nepal, etc.

[Chimurenga.]

China is pissed at N. Korea. No surprises there.

I wouldn't say that they are pissed at northern Korea. China just doesn't want a conflict and is trying to resolve matters by being calm. They just called for talks with the DPRK which will be happening in a few hours, so we'll see how that goes.


It's also not exactly a secret that Kim Jong-il secretly hates China, because he relies on China so much.

This is ridiculous. The DPRK and China have had pretty good relations for the most part (excluding in 1991, I believe, when China cut off aid to the DPRK). So I seriously doubt that Kim Jong-il or any northern Korean holds ill feelings towards the Chinese. Plus, when it comes to production in Democratic Korea, they won't need as much Chinese aid in a few years.

Anyways, back to the subject of the thread...

[RedStarOverChina]

This is ridiculous. The DPRK and China have had pretty good relations for the most part (excluding in 1991, I believe, when China cut off aid to the DPRK). So I seriously doubt that Kim Jong-il or any northern Korean holds ill feelings towards the Chinese. Plus, when it comes to production in Democratic Korea, they won't need as much Chinese aid in a few years.
Theirs is an alliance of necessity. As long as American troops are still stationed in South Korea, China will back the North like it does over the border conflict between the North and the South.

But it is hardly ridiculous to assume that they secretly hate each other. My dad worked at a Chinese dock in the 70s and 80s, he recalled that during a North Korean state visit, local officials rushed to hide all the submarines and hi-tech weaponaries so that the DPRK officials do not find them, lest they demand them. :lol: So even back then the relationship wasn't that trusting.

DPRK's official ideology consists mostly of national independence...they hate it when they have to rely on foreign powers like the pupet regime of the South. Consequently they do not exactly worship their aid donors:

Back during the Sino-Soviet split, DPRK had the balls to slash out on both the Soviet Union and the PRC---not exactly a maintream behaviour among socialist countries.

They're proudly continuing their glorious tradition of having a mind of their own, in their secret dealings with the United States: They refused to disclose to China their discussions with the US.

You can see how that wouldn't sit well with its sole backer, the PRC. It's like you brave through the storms to stick out for your friend and then s/he turns around and start hanging out with the enemy. :D

That's what ticked off Chinese leadership, I believe. But still, due to geopolitical concerns, China will always back DPRK against ROK and the US---It's not because they had a long friendship or that they liked each other.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Apparently the Chinese people are more so against the US than anyone else. They see, at a clear majority, that the DPRK are their allies:


Chinese State poll — Majority blame US for Korea tensions
by BJ Murphy

An opinion poll that was conducted Monday had shown that 56 percent of China’s people blame the United States for the recent high tensions within the Korean peninsula.

Of the respondents, only 9 percent stated that North Korea was to blame. This comes as very low after most South Korean and Western media have stated otherwise on who is to blame.

10 percent of the respondents had also come to blame South Korea for the recent provocations.

Tensions have been high since the artillery shelling by North Korea on the island of Yeonpyeong. Most media by South Korea and those of Western regional countries have blamed North Korea for the recent tensions. Confusing the fact that it was a military base attacked (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2010/11/28/S-Korea-US-naval-exercises-enter-Day-2/UPI-71481290952478/) on Yeonpyeong instead of a civilian area.

With civilians working around the military base, two civilians were laid victims to the attack, with another two victims being military officials.

Of those polled, only 10 percent had felt that Pyongyang had acted provocatively, while 22 percent stated that they were “forced to take action.” The highest percent, that of being 57 percent, stated that it was “too complicated to judge”, according to China’s state newspaper.

When asked if those polled viewed North Korea as their ally or at least a strategic defense role towards China, a large 88 percent stated yes.

Unlike most biased South Korean media (http://redantliberationarmy.wordpress.com/2010/11/26/police-probing-internet-cafe-praising-north-korea/), China has refused to condemn the North Koreans for their attack on South Korea, and instead have called for emergency talks to be held between themselves and North Korea on Tuesday.

As tensions continue to grow, instead of heeding to North Korea’s warning against the US-South Korean war games, more are to continue this coming week. The North have been asking for diplomacy instead, but each attempt has been declined by both South Korea and the US. Only time will tell on what is to come next.

http://redantliberationarmy.wordpress.com/2010/11/29/chinese-state-poll-majority-blame-us-for-korea-tensions/

[RedStarOverChina]

Apparently the Chinese people are more so against the US than anyone else. They see, at a clear majority, that the DPRK are their allies:
That's mostly because a state media report that rightfully blames the South for instigating border conflict by having a naval exercise in disputed waters. It may even have fired into what was indisputably North Korean waters.

Overall, the mood in China is turning against the North, despite its fairly intense disliking of the South.

[The Vegan Marxist]

That's mostly because a state media report that rightfully blames the South for instigating border conflict by having a naval exercise in disputed waters. It may even have fired into what was indisputably North Korean waters.

Overall, the mood in China is turning against the North, despite its fairly intense disliking of the South.

I would say an 88% of seeing the DPRK as their ally is stating the contrary. Maybe the Chinese State has disliking's against them, but Chinese people, themselves, have an overall support towards the DPRK.

[RedStarOverChina]

I would say an 88% of seeing the DPRK as their ally is stating the contrary. Maybe the Chinese State has disliking's against them, but Chinese people, themselves, have an overall support towards the DPRK.
Nah. :)

[Tablo]

I'm frustrated the way people are responding to this. Every person I've talked to about it has no clue what the leaks are and condemns whoever leaked the information. What the fuck is going on. :mad:

[Red Commissar]

I'm frustrated the way people are responding to this. Every person I've talked to about it has no clue what the leaks are and condemns whoever leaked the information. What the fuck is going on. :mad:

That means the US damage control is working.

In fact it's pretty much been the policy in the US government to fall back on the aspect of national security being compromised and putting informants, soldiers, diplos, and other such agents in danger when faced with the exposure of sensitive information. It's worked for the most part, now and in the past.

[The Vegan Marxist]

That means the US damage control is working.

In fact it's pretty much been the policy in the US government to fall back on the aspect of national security being compromised and putting informants, soldiers, diplos, and other such agents in danger when faced with the exposure of sensitive information. It's worked for the most part, now and in the past.

Mainstream media are clearly trying to distort these leaks in order to fulfill status-quo advancements over the leaks' possible damaging significance:


New York Times Oversells WikiLeaks/Iranian Missiles Story
by Peter Hart
November 29, 2010

WikiLeaks document dumps are largely what media want to make of them. There’s one conventional response, which goes something like this: “There’s nothing new (http://www.fair.org/blog/2010/07/27/washpost-on-wikileaks-yawn/) here, but WikiLeaks is dangerous (http://www.fair.org/blog/2010/10/25/abc-on-wikileaks-when-will-they-be-arrested/)!” But there’s another option: “There’s nothing here, except for the part that confirms a storyline we’ve been pushing.” In those cases, WikiLeaks is deemed very, very useful.

That was the case with the last batch of WikiLeaks documents, when the New York Times wrote a long piece about what the documents alleged about Iran’s involvement in the Iraq War. Journalist Ali Gharib wrote (http://www.cjr.org/campaign_desk/what_did_wikileaks_really_tell.php) about that issue (and talked to CounterSpin (http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=4193) about it too). You get a similar feel from the Times’ treatment of Iranian weapons in today’s edition (11/29/10 (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/29/world/middleeast/29missiles.html)).

“Iran Fortifies Its Arsenal With the Aid of North Korea” is the self-confident headline, and the piece (co-authored by William Broad, James Glanz and David Sanger (http://www.fair.org/blog/2009/05/22/the-iranian-threat-to-eastern-crete/)) seems remarkably certain about this intelligence:


Secret American intelligence assessments have concluded that Iran has obtained a cache of advanced missiles, based on a Russian design, that are much more powerful than anything Washington has publicly conceded that Tehran has in its arsenal, diplomatic cables show.

The Times’ account seems to rely almost entirely on one cable in the WikiLeaks archive– a “detailed, highly classified account of a meeting between top Russian officials and an American delegation.” The Times wastes no time in conveying the danger:


The missiles could for the first time give Iran the capacity to strike at capitals in Western Europe or easily reach Moscow, and American officials warned that their advanced propulsion could speed Iran’s development of intercontinental ballistic missiles.

At issue are 19 missiles that Iran allegedly bought from North Korea. It’s hard to know how definitive this evidence might be. (There are likely many secret documents pertaining to Iraq’s WMDs that proved to be entirely incorrect; because something is secret or confidential does not mean it’s uniquely candid or truthful.) The Times does not seem at all skeptical about the story, but there’s one thing they won’t do: publish the actual cable:


At the request of the Obama administration, The New York Times has agreed not to publish the text of the cable.

So the paper will publish a story that reiterates the most explosive allegations in the cable, but not the cable itself. This is curious.

Luckily WikiLeaks did publish it (http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/cable/2010/02/10STATE17263.html). And the most interesting thing one learns is that the Russians were deeply skeptical of the U.S. allegations about these missiles:


Russia said that during its presentations in Moscow and its comments thus far during the current talks, the U.S. has discussed the BM-25 as an existing system. Russia questioned the basis for this assumption and asked for any facts the U.S. had to provide its existence such as launches, photos etc. For Russia, the BM-25 is a mysterious missile. North Korea has not conducted any tests of this missile, but the U.S. has said that North Korea transferred 19 of these missiles to Iran. It is hard for Russia to follow the logic trail on this. Since Russia has not seen any evidence of this missile being developed or tested, it is hard for Russia to imagine that Iran would buy an untested system. Russia does not understand how a deal would be made for an untested missile. References to the missile’s existence are more in the domain of political literature than technical fact. In short, for Russia, there is a question about the existence of this system.

In other words, not only were the Russians not convinced that Iran had purchased these missiles, they weren’t sure that these missiles even existed.

The cable went on to note that the U.S. view is that the Iranians might be buying a system that doesn’t work in order to adapt the technology to its existing missiles:


The U.S. repeated its earlier comment that Iran and North Korea have different standards of missile development than many other countries, including the U.S. and Russia. North Korea exported No Dong missiles after only one flight test, so it is not unimaginable that it would build and seek to export a system that has not been tested. This is especially true for North Korea because of its need for hard currency. In the U.S. view, the more interesting question is why would Iran buy a missile that has not been tested. One possible answer is that Iran has recognized that the BM-25′s propulsion technology exceeds the capabilities of that used in the Shahab-3, and that acquiring such technology was very attractive. Iran wanted engines capable of using more-energetic fuels, and buying a batch of BM-25 missiles gives Iran a set it can work on for reverse engineering. This estimate would be consistent with the second stage of the Safir SLV using steering engines from the BM-25 missile.

Of course it’s possible that the North Koreans actually sold Iran missiles that they can use to strike Europe. Or they didn’t do any such thing. Or that they sold them missiles that don’t actually work. But the Times seems to be going with the first story, based on secret documents that, when you actually read them, suggest strongly that the other two possibilities might be correct. In light of this, the decision not to publish the cable makes a lot more sense: You can make strong allegations about an official enemy without letting your readers see the less than overwhelming evidence.

http://www.fair.org/blog/2010/11/29/nyt-oversells-wikileaksiranian-missiles-story/

[Tzonteyotl]

Mainstream media are clearly trying to distort these leaks in order to fulfill status-quo advancements over the leaks' possible damaging significance:

Another reason this is so frustrating at the moment. The Iran nuclear weapons issue was the only part of the leak being mentioned on CNN earlier as it was showing on the TV in my university's library lobby. For a good ten minutes that's all it was, with David Frum talking about how this leak makes war with Iran more likely. So not only can the US turn people against whistleblowers with this leak, they can even use it to reinforce their imperialist interests.:mad:

[Tzonteyotl]

This kind of stuff isn't going to "wake up" American workers. Within the US, these leaks are mostly useful for slowly draining Obama's support...the left wing of the Democrats are already not happy with his administration, and this kind of stuff will create more tension and anger on that end, which should help nudge more people leftward. The American masses, as a whole, are still digesting the fact that the American Dream has been dead for decades, that Hope and Change is not on the way, that their only option is class struggle. It's bigger than one spark, I think.

Some of those masses though, did hand control of half of Congress back to the Republicans. I agree with what you're saying, however. It's going to take more than a single spark. But with all the talk about the public frustrated with Congress, the liberals' disillusion with Obama as you mention, and then the Republican take-back of the House. Can't help but bang your head against the wall!:lol:

[Tzonteyotl]

http://www.forbes.com/2010/11/29/julian-assange-wikileaks-business-media-assange_lander.html


So do you have very high impact corporate stuff to release then?
Yes, but maybe not as high impact…I mean, it could take down a bank or two.

So, just having started this release, they already got early 2011 planned?

[Martin Blank]

The thing to keep in mind with this release by WikiLeaks is not necessarily the content of individual dispatches, but the fact that, taken as a whole, they offer a roadmap for the development of secret diplomacy by Washington. We might not see the final agreements, but we get to see the unvarnished process leading to those agreements. That's really what makes this important.

For us, specifically, it's worth noting that the New York Times article mentions that some of the dispatches on the Cablegate site name names of informants and snitches for the State Department among "activists". I'm hoping to spend some time this week pulling this information together.

[Diello]

how long before the US brands wikileaks as a terrorist organisation then?

From FOX (http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/politics/peter-king-push-to-name-wikileaks-terror-group-20101129-KC):

The disclosure of thousands of classified State Department documents by WikiLeaks warrants the website being labeled a terrorist organization, [Representative Peter] King said.

"By doing so we can seize their assets," King told Good Day New York.

[synthesis]

WikiLeaks is designed to make capitalism more free and ethical.

Interesting. This is after he explains his sympathy for "American libertarianism, market libertarianism," by the way.

[GPDP]

Interesting. This is after he explains his sympathy for "American libertarianism, market libertarianism," by the way.

Shoulda seen this coming.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Interesting. This is after he explains his sympathy for "American libertarianism, market libertarianism," by the way.

It's a bit irrelevant in my opinion. As long as wikileaks, itself, continues to release the documents, I see no reason to worry about Assange's political ideology. He's not the "main" guy of wikileaks. He's practically the spokesperson, which he's explained himself as well.

[synthesis]

It's a bit irrelevant in my opinion. As long as wikileaks, itself, continues to release the documents, I see no reason to worry about Assange's political ideology. He's not the "main" guy of wikileaks. He's practically the spokesperson, which he's explained himself as well.

Of course; I believe he actually called himself a "figurehead" at one point, and in any case I don't think his political ideology is particularly relevant.

I do find his comment about Wikileaks being "designed to make capitalism more free and ethical" to be very interesting, however. It puts the project in a different perspective for me.

"If only powerful institutions were forced to be totally transparent," says the liberal, "we could dispense with socialism entirely. We can force them to be ethical!"

But even if total transparency in capitalism was a feasible goal, which it isn't, powerful institutions would still be powerful. Transparency does not lead to ethical behavior - only to further instruments of opaqueness.

I certainly don't think that Wikileaks is some sort of intelligence conspiracy, and furthermore I do think their efforts will have positive repercussions. But by acting as though they have undermined our illusions of transparency and equilibrium, it paradoxically seems inevitable that those illusions will simply become even more entrenched as the project runs its course.

[Fulanito de Tal]

Ecuador offers refuge to Assange

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2010/11/2010113033515743921.html


An Ecuadorean minister has offered residence in his country to Julian Assange, the reclusive founder of WikiLeaks, without conditions.

"We are ready to give him residence in Ecuador, with no problems and no conditions," Kintto Lucas, the deputy foreign minister, told the website Ecuadorinmediato on Monday.

"We are going to invite him to come to Ecuador so he can freely present the information he possesses and all the documentation, not just over the internet but in a variety of public forums."

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

Ecuador offers refuge to Assange

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2010/11/2010113033515743921.html
That's strange. What kind of relationship does Ecuador share with the US? Is it hostile, or are they on good terms?

[The Vegan Marxist]

That's strange. What kind of relationship does Ecuador share with the US? Is it hostile, or are they on good terms?

Don't you remember the failed US-backed coup against Ecuadorian President Correa a few months ago? Ecuador's definitely not in good terms with the US.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

Don't you remember the failed US-backed coup against Ecuadorian President Correa a few months ago? Ecuador's definitely not in good terms with the US.
I wasn't aware of that, although I should have been. My knowledge of Latin America is not great.

Thanks for the clarity, it is what I hoped would be the case.

[ckaihatsu]

That means the US damage control is working.

In fact it's pretty much been the policy in the US government to fall back on the aspect of national security being compromised and putting informants, soldiers, diplos, and other such agents in danger when faced with the exposure of sensitive information. It's worked for the most part, now and in the past.


Hmmmmmph! People are forgetting about the 'second superpower'....





Second Superpower

This article is about the post-2003 use of the phrase "Second Superpower". Prior to its collapse, this term and the related term Second World were sometimes used to describe the Soviet Union and its satellites.

"Second Superpower" is a term used to conceptualize a global civil society as a world force comparable to or counterbalancing the United States. The term originates from a 2003 New York Times article which described world public opinion as one of two superpowers.[1]

The term second superpower has also been applied by scholars to the possibility that China will emerge as second superpower on par with the United States.[2][3][4]


Invention in response to February 2003 demonstrations

Anti-war protests which were the impetus for the invention of the term.

On February 15, 2003 global demonstrations took place against the impending invasion of Iraq. These involved between six and thirty million people and were listed in the Guinness Book of World Records as including the largest anti-war rally in history. In reaction, New York Times writer Patrick Tyler wrote in a February 17 article that:“ ...the huge anti-war demonstrations around the world this weekend are reminders that there may still be two superpowers on the planet: the United States and world public opinion.

[...]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Superpower

[Widerstand]

Hmmmmmph! People are forgetting about the 'second superpower'....

Yeah we all saw how good that one worked.

[ckaihatsu]

Yeah we all saw how good that one worked.


Touché. (But what else *is* there, besides *greater* militancy -- ?)

[t.shonku]

Guys I found this wikileaks video on You Tube,shows how the US Army is shooting on civilians
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hdEsGiT2Ls&feature=topvideos

[ckaihatsu]

He's not the "main" guy of wikileaks. He's practically the spokesperson, which he's explained himself as well.





Of course; I believe he actually called himself a "figurehead" at one point


I'd just like to take a moment here to let everyone know that *I* am here at RevLeft in the self-selected role of titular figurehead and/or "Emmanuel Goldstein", as you will....


x D





Emmanuel Goldstein is a fictional character in George Orwell's classic novel Nineteen Eighty-Four. Being a key part of the story, he is only actually seen and heard on telescreen, and may in fact be nothing more than a propaganda fabrication of the Ministry of Truth ("Minitrue").

Character

In the novel, Goldstein is rumoured to be a former top member of the ruling (and sole) Party who had broken away early in the movement and started an organization known as "The Brotherhood", dedicated to the fall of The Party. The novel raises but leaves unanswered the questions of whether Goldstein, "The Brotherhood," or even "Big Brother" really exist.

[...]

Goldstein is always the subject of the "Two Minutes Hate," a daily, 2-minute period beginning at 11:00 AM at which a purported image of Goldstein is shown on the telescreen

[...]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmanuel_Goldstein

[Edelweiss]

Wikileaks cables reveal China 'ready to abandon North Korea' (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/29/wikileaks-cables-china-reunified-korea)

[Sasha]

ugh, 2 more batches got released, still nothing coming out of the embassy in the hague, hope we are not last in line. wikeleaks homepage say it will take months before everything is released. guess its my own impatience but i'm strating to wonder if releasing this slowly is the smart move. i'm afraid people will get bored with it and will start to resent wikileaks for keeping the media hostage. i would have gone for an week or tops two weeks. woudl also be more of an bombshell.

[Blackscare]

Ecuador offers refuge to Assange

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2010/11/2010113033515743921.html


Awesome, this is what I figured would happen. Some country with beef with the US would protect him out of spite. :thumbup1:

[Comrade Wolfie's Very Nearly Banned Adventures]

ugh, 2 more batches got released, still nothing coming out of the embassy in the hague, hope we are not last in line. wikeleaks homepage say it will take months before everything is released. guess its my own impatience but i'm strating to wonder if releasing this slowly is the smart move. i'm afraid people will get bored with it and will start to resent wikileaks for keeping the media hostage. i would have gone for an week or tops two weeks. woudl also be more of an bombshell.

I'm sure I heard that there had been a leak that confirmed the presence of US nuclear Weapons on dutch soil, something that had been suspected for a while..

[piet11111]

The thing that pisses me of about this leak is how its entirely managed by the media and carefully combed over to censor the worst parts.

Wikileaks should just throw their data onto the torrent sites and let the people see it all for themselves.

[RedStarOverChina]

Awesome, this is what I figured would happen. Some country with beef with the US would protect him out of spite. :thumbup1:
Let's just hope the leaks don't contain any damaging information on Correa. :lol:

[Robocommie]

Awesome, this is what I figured would happen. Some country with beef with the US would protect him out of spite. :thumbup1:

Assuming that they can protect him. If the US gets mad enough at you there's only so much you can do to stay safe. Just look at those Iranian nuclear scientists who were murdered recently. It certainly wasn't a random bombing.

[bailey_187]

Wikileaks cables reveal China 'ready to abandon North Korea' (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/29/wikileaks-cables-china-reunified-korea)

wow. North Korea doesnt look like it has much of a future ahead.

[maskerade]

wow. North Korea doesnt look like it has much of a future ahead.

keep in mind that North Korea also wants a unified Korea.

Though of course it would be unrealistic to assume that China would try to bring NK's fantasies to fruition

[Sosa]

Attack hits wikileaks cable site

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11875830

[Comrade Wolfie's Very Nearly Banned Adventures]

keep in mind that North Korea also wants a unified Korea.

Though of course it would be unrealistic to assume that China would try to bring NK's fantasies to fruition

Indeed, it would seem china reluctantly supports the DPRK out of fear of it collapsing and causing a huge refugee/civil war/humanitarian crisis on her boarders.

[Sosa]

Noam Chomsky: WikiLeaks Cables Reveal 'Profound Hatred For Democracy' By US Govt Officials (http://apps.facebook.com/videos-app/video?cid=17414523278&vid=82acc967bca534ffb7f80bd5e6df1cfc&ref=mf)

bWd-pgiU4Co
bWb_oyk2L5I


"We Have Not Seen Anything Yet," Guardian Editor Says Most Startling WikiLeaks Cables To Be Released (http://apps.facebook.com/videos-app/video?cid=17414523278&vid=3421ae3e12ac3ecbd6ff4fc8a53f9c4a&ref=mf)KOxZiDALQlg

[freepalestine]

have all the wikileaks cables been released.?

[Comrade Wolfie's Very Nearly Banned Adventures]

have all the wikileaks cables been released.?

Not even close. Apparently two more weeks of stuff.

[bailey_187]

keep in mind that North Korea also wants a unified Korea.

Though of course it would be unrealistic to assume that China would try to bring NK's fantasies to fruition

yeah but for China to say it wants it under the control of Seoul, which would mean an end of the DPRK

[punisa]

yeah but for China to say it wants it under the control of Seoul, which would mean an end of the DPRK

Although I hoped differently, I always kinda suspected that China considers DPRK simply as a burden that should collapse ASAP.
Sad :(

[TwoSevensClash]

Although I hoped differently, I always kinda suspected that China considers DPRK simply as a burden that should collapse ASAP.
Sad :(
Its like when someone makes captain of a sports team and ditches there old friends. China doesn't want to be seen with north korea anymore.

[Pretty Flaco]

Its like when someone makes captain of a sports team and ditches there old friends. China doesn't want to be seen with north korea anymore.

Keep in mind that their old friend was the weird kid in the back that ate glue and killed animals for fun.

[RedStarOverChina]

Although I hoped differently, I always kinda suspected that China considers DPRK simply as a burden that should collapse ASAP.
Sad :(
Not really, that's like the scenario they're preparing for, though. Obviously, any collapsing neighbour would wreak havoc.

[Robocommie]

Not really, that's like the scenario they're preparing for, though. Obviously, any collapsing neighbour would wreak havoc.

A history professor of mine didn't know the answer, but you might Red. How did the PRC react in '91 when the Soviet Union finally collapsed?

[punisa]

comrades... something is not quite right here..
I've been following the story for days now.
And as some people online are wondering let me pose that question as well:
how the hell did the US allow this? I mean.. should we really believe that if these documents were such a big threat to the US imperialism that they wouldn't simply whack the guy and the entire wikileaks crew?

I don't know, this is just me thinking about it all. And another thing, I've also read a comment by someone who states that clearly all of these leaks so far (including the war documents) haven't actually hurt US government all that much.
Alluding to the idea that perhaps Julian and the whole concept is US staged thing made in order to "show" the "hidden" documents which will eventually lead to a general public conclusion: "yeah, they kill a couple of civilians. Spy a bit, tell dirty jokes. But overall US is okey !"

Please tell me I'm being paranoid :)

[Comrade Wolfie's Very Nearly Banned Adventures]

comrades... something is not quite right here..
I've been following the story for days now.
And as some people online are wondering let me pose that question as well:
how the hell did the US allow this? I mean.. should we really believe that if these documents were such a big threat to the US imperialism that they wouldn't simply whack the guy and the entire wikileaks crew?

I don't know, this is just me thinking about it all. And another thing, I've also read a comment by someone who states that clearly all of these leaks so far (including the war documents) haven't actually hurt US government all that much.
Alluding to the idea that perhaps Julian and the whole concept is US staged thing made in order to "show" the "hidden" documents which will eventually lead to a general public conclusion: "yeah, they kill a couple of civilians. Spy a bit, tell dirty jokes. But overall US is okey !"

Please tell me I'm being paranoid :)

Yes you are being paranoid. Here is your tinfoil hat.

[Robocommie]

If the government felt the need to have Clinton go on television and condemn the leaks for harming innocent people, then certainly it's gotten stuck in their craw in some way.

[RedStarOverChina]

A history professor of mine didn't know the answer, but you might Red. Why would any country want a friendly neighbour to collapse, causing instability through out the region? We are talking about China here, and maintaining stability has always been the top priority.

It doesn't take a history professor (and why history professor?) to understand China's desire to keep the status quo, thus maintaining stability.



How did the PRC react in '91 when the Soviet Union finally collapsed?Mostly with a smuggish "I told you so", even though deep down they were very conflicted.

I don't see how these two are valid comparisons. If I recall correctly, China and the Soviet Union were not on speaking terms for about 30 years.

China and DPRK, on the other hand, are still official allies.

[Robocommie]

Why would any country want a friendly neighbour to collapse, causing instability through out the region? We are talking about China here, and maintaining stability has always been the top priority.

It doesn't take a history professor (and why history professor?) to understand China's desire to keep the status quo, thus maintaining stability.

No, Red, that was a serious question, I had no ulterior motive in asking it. :lol:

I don't know the history around it but I figured you might. I would imagine the ensuing confusion might have been a bit nerve wracking because of the long shared border.

[RedStarOverChina]

No, Red, that was a serious question, I had no ulterior motive in asking it. :lol:

I don't know the history around it but I figured you might. I would imagine the ensuing confusion might have been a bit nerve wracking because of the long shared border.
Actually China benefitted enormously due to the collapse of the Soviet Union---At least in the short term. There weren't that many Russians north of the Chinese border, consequently there were no Russian refugees flooding into China (:lol:) except for some Russian prostitudes.

Chinese merchants made insane profits trading with powerful Russian officials/tycoons.

One famous merchant (who is currently doing time in a Chinese prison) went to Russia with food and trickets, then returned with two military jets.

Also Russia soon backed down on the territorial dispute with China. It has just conceded part of a disputed "island", while promising to return the rest in the future.

[Sasha]

comrades... something is not quite right here..
I've been following the story for days now.
And as some people online are wondering let me pose that question as well:
how the hell did the US allow this? I mean.. should we really believe that if these documents were such a big threat to the US imperialism that they wouldn't simply whack the guy and the entire wikileaks crew?

I don't know, this is just me thinking about it all. And another thing, I've also read a comment by someone who states that clearly all of these leaks so far (including the war documents) haven't actually hurt US government all that much.
Alluding to the idea that perhaps Julian and the whole concept is US staged thing made in order to "show" the "hidden" documents which will eventually lead to a general public conclusion: "yeah, they kill a couple of civilians. Spy a bit, tell dirty jokes. But overall US is okey !"

Please tell me I'm being paranoid :)


Yes you are being paranoid. Here is your tinfoil hat.

just because your paranoid doesnt mean they arent out to get you ;)

but yeah, i think this is an actual leak.
what you propose (punisa) is what is the problem with al conspiracy's, you vastly overestimante the abilitys from "the man" and just as vastly underestimate their ability to fuck up.

its like with 9/11, now matter how weird it is that some shady saudi bilionair with an small private army could pull this off, its a lot more likely than that it was the big stumbeling from blunder to fuck up administration under leadership of george "not playing with the full deck" bush and dick "shoot your lawyer in the face" cheney mounting such an eloborate false flag operation and then manage to keep it secret.

[Jazzhands]

Indeed, it would seem china reluctantly supports the DPRK out of fear of it collapsing and causing a huge refugee/civil war/humanitarian crisis on her boarders.

Agree and disagree. That appears to be one reason, but certainly not the main reason. The reunification of Germany was relatively bloodless, but these are different situations. The reason is that South Korea is home to heavy amounts of US troops, and they don't want the US military to gain a strong foothold on its border.

[crazyirish93]

interpol has supposedly issued an arrest warrant for julian assage

[Jazzhands]

interpol has supposedly issued an arrest warrant for julian assage

Not surprised at all. He probably has a few tricks up his sleeve for avoiding their jurisdiction. He's probably seen some Justice Department stuff about dealings with Interpol. There are countries that refuse to cooperate with Interpol, and some with stricter data protection and extradition laws than others. So there are some places he can stay in relatively safely.

Speaking of which, there's an interesting consequence here that nobody's looked at from quite this perspective. The USA Justice, Defense and Homeland Security Departments are constantly making deals with foreign countries on sharing the data of their residents. Things like airplane visas, Social Security information, etc. But we're always trying to persuade these countries to lower their standards on protecting citizens' data. But now that we've seen that we can't even protect our own data, they'll be less likely to hand us theirs.

[Widerstand]

interpol has supposedly issued an arrest warrant for julian assage

shit just got real.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/nov/30/interpol-wanted-notice-julian-assange

[Q]

interpol has supposedly issued an arrest warrant for julian assage

Yeah, he's being charged with harrassing two Swedish women if I'm not mistaken.

[Sasha]

rumour has it that wikileaks are soon going to drop some serious shit about mexican politician - drugcartel links.
this might get very intresting

[RedStarOverChina]

I've been staring at updates for like 12 hours. It's been painfully slow...How the hell could they going to release 250,000 entries at this rate?

[Q]

I've been staring at updates for like 12 hours. It's been painfully slow...How the hell could they going to release 250,000 entries at this rate?

Simple, by taking the next 7 years to release them all ;)

[Widerstand]

Simple, by taking the next 7 years to release them all ;)

Is it bad to hope Assange get's killed so I can read the security file?

[Diogenes]

News is that a lot of American politicians (Mike Huckabee mostly) are calling for the execution of who ever released the cables, a PFC I think.

[FreeFocus]

Fucking clowns calling for arresting Assange and declaring Wikileaks a "terrorist organization.."

The Mexican state-drug cartel links will definitely be interesting, although it's kind of expected. There are high levels of corruption in the Mexican government and this drug war in Mexico attracts US funding.

[Fulanito de Tal]

shit just got real.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/nov/30/interpol-wanted-notice-julian-assange

I REALLY LIKE THIS ASSANGE GUY. :thumbup1:


But [Assange] was able to give an interview to Time magazine in which he called for Hillary Clinton, the US secretary of state, to resign. "She should resign, if it can be shown that she was responsible for ordering US diplomatic figures to engage in espionage in the United Nations, in violation of the international covenants to which the US has signed up. Yes, she should resign over that," he said.

[Magón]

Is it bad to hope Assange get's killed so I can read the security file?

Zing!

Also, I'm interested in these Cartel Files too. Wonder if they've got my uncle named in any of them? :confused:

[Tablo]

I can't wait for the to get into some of the more juicy stuff.

Question, what would be the best way to spread the information being released? There is a lot of stuff so I feel like fliers might not be the best method... only reason I feel the need to resort to this is because the US media is totally ignoring the actual content of the leaks. :(

[Ligeia]

rumour has it that wikileaks are soon going to drop some serious shit about mexican politician - drugcartel links.
this might get very intresting
Even if it reveals something really shocking or unbelievably terrible about politicans and firms, it will only be intresting.
I don't think that this will have any effect on the government or anybody else intertwined in there, there's not only corruption but also impunity.

Then again, it's probably something common in some ways:

“Now, I’ve heard the impact of these releases on our foreign policy described as a meltdown, as a game-changer, and so on. I think those descriptions are fairly significantly overwrought. The fact is, governments deal with the United States because it’s in their interest, not because they like us, not because they trust us, and not because they believe we can keep secrets. Many governments — some governments — deal with us because they fear us, some because they respect us, most because they need us. We are still essentially, as has been said before, the indispensable nation.
“So other nations will continue to deal with us. They will continue to work with us. We will continue to share sensitive information with one another.
“Is this embarrassing? Yes. Is it awkward? Yes. Consequences for U.S. foreign policy? I think fairly modest.’’

Gates on Leaks (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/30/gates-on-leaks-wiki-and-otherwise/?)

[punisa]

just because your paranoid doesnt mean they arent out to get you ;)

but yeah, i think this is an actual leak.
what you propose (punisa) is what is the problem with al conspiracy's, you vastly overestimante the abilitys from "the man" and just as vastly underestimate their ability to fuck up.

Guilty as charged :lol:
I guess I did kinda fell for that overestimate of "the man", but I'm back to normal sane thinking this morning :D

Related to that - I would guess that even if secret services were once thinking of removing Assange from the spotlight it has now became impossible.
If something would've happen to Assange now, this would provoke a global outrage and US would be to blame.

In other news, seems like Ecuador pulled out of yesterday's proposition to offer Assange residency, bad public relations move on them :(

[Tzonteyotl]

Even if it reveals something really shocking or unbelievably terrible about politicans and firms, it will only be intresting. I don't think that this will have any effect on the government or anybody else intertwined in there, there's not only corruption but also impunity.


I wouldn't say that's entirely true. With much of the anti-immigrant attitude going around and other states proposing Arizona type immigration laws, the media could focus on anything in the leaks about the cartels and Mexican politicians and it would reinforce those attitudes. It could be similar to the way they've used the leaks related to Iran to suggest war with Iran is inevitable.

[Amphictyonis]

I REALLY LIKE THIS ASSANGE GUY. :thumbup1:


But [Assange] was able to give an interview to Time magazine in which he called for Hillary Clinton, the US secretary of state, to resign. "She should resign, if it can be shown that she was responsible for ordering US diplomatic figures to engage in espionage in the United Nations, in violation of the international covenants to which the US has signed up. Yes, she should resign over that," he said.Lets not loose sight of the nature of the capitalist system. It doesn't matter who's in whatever office. They are all representatives of the bourgeoisie. Obama, Bush, Clinton....whatever? ;)

Thus far all I've seen from these wiki files amounts to bourgeois state gossip and the expected tomfoolery one would expect from a global system of nationalistic hierarchical governments.

[Leonid Brozhnev]

Assange should be 'assassinated'... according to an advisor to the Canadian PM.

bqtIafdoH_g

[punisa]

Can anyone help on a particular document?
http://rpgp.org/cable/?home-view?c=09STATE80163

This is a document where instructions are given to spy on UN.
I'm trying to decpiher one part - for example, we have:


Key Near-Term Issues

1) Darfur/Sudan (FPOL-1).
-- Views of United Nations (UN) member states on contributing
troops and air transportation equipment, such as helicopters,
to the UN Mission in Sudan (UNMIS) and the African Union
(AU)-UN Hybrid Operation in Darfur (UNAMID).
-- Details of deployments of troop contributor countries to
UNMIS/UNAMID.
-- Details on actions and views of UN personnel deployed in
UNMIS/UNAMID.
-- Views of UNSC members on the success or failure of
UNMIS/UNAMID.
-- Operational plans of UNMIS/UNAMID from both the UN
Department of Peacekeeping Operations in New York, and
UNMIS/UNAMID in Sudan.
-- Details of diplomatic engagement between UNMIS/UNAMID
Special Envoys for the Darfur Peace Process in Sudan, and the
Sudanese government or Darfur rebel groups.
-- Views of member states on UN activities in Sudan
(including Darfur).
-- Divisions between UN member and UN Secretariat assessments
of the situation on the ground as it affects UN action.

Countries: Austria, Burkina Faso, China, Costa Rica,
Croatia, Egypt, Ethiopia, France, Indonesia, Japan, Libya,
Mexico, Nigeria, Russia, Rwanda, Sudan, Turkey, Uganda,

STATE 00080163 004 OF 024

What does the highlighted list of countries mean here? Are these the list of embassies where the particular note has been sent or?

[~Spectre]

interpol has supposedly issued an arrest warrant for julian assage

His CIA tail may have lost track of him, so this will make him surface again.

[~Spectre]

Bolivarian gang to the rescue:


Assange has previously suggested he might find sanctuary in Switzerland. More promising perhaps is Ecuador, whose leftist government unexpectedly offered him asylum on Monday.
"We are ready to give him residence in Ecuador, with no problems and no conditions," Ecuador's foreign minister, Kintto Lucas, said.
At the very least, Ecuador could offer Assange a new passport. He might need one. Yesterday Australia's attorney general, Robert McClelland, said Australian police were also investigating whether any Australian laws had been broken by the latest WikiLeaks release.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/nov/30/interpol-wanted-notice-julian-assange?intcmp=239

[Blackscare]

Bolivarian gang to the rescue:



http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/nov/30/interpol-wanted-notice-julian-assange?intcmp=239



Apparently they backed out.

Although I think Cuba or Venezuela are a bit more defiant and will do it.

[RadioRaheem84]

Correra has denied the claim, saying Lucas spoke on his own behalf.

Chavez should give him asylum.

Also, if CANADA wants you dead, that means there is no hope for you. :crying:

[piet11111]

It seems the whole "assange must die for this" talk might turn out to be more damaging to the americans then the actual leak.

[Rusty Shackleford]

http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/article925928.ece

While the leaked United States embassy cables appear to suggest widening cracks in China's relations with North Korea, analysts here have played down the claims as a combination of wishful thinking on the part of South Korean diplomats and a misreading of China's wider strategic relationship with its long-time ally.
Several cables released by WikiLeaks quoted South Korean officials suggesting increasing frustration among Chinese officials towards the North's actions — some even describing Pyongyang as a “spoiled child”.
The cables even suggest an increasing appetite among Chinese officials for peaceful reunification under South Korean leadership, a claim that contradicts China's official line towards the North.
In Beijing analysts downplayed the suggestions. “The basic fact is that China benefits from its strategic relations with the North,” Gong Keyu, deputy director of the Centre for Asia-Pacific Studies at the Shanghai Institute for International Studies, told The Hindu. “The long-term friendship between the two countries is not going to change.” Analysts here say the cables are accurate only as far as describing the debate among leaders last year following the North conducting a nuclear test less than 100 km from the border with China, without alerting Beijing. The outcome of the debate, however, was far different from Mr. Chun's reading, analysts note.
“There was a debate among China's leaders last year, but they have decided clearly that the North is very important to China,” said Ms. Gong. “It would be completely wrong to think that China-North Korea relations are entirely dependent on one or two issues, such as the nuclear issue.”
Other cables show deep personal links between the ruling parties of China and North Korea, suggesting ties are unlikely to change in the near future. “When the child of a high-ranking official hears of a Chinese aid proposal to North Korea, he will travel to North Korea to convince the relevant official to follow his instructions for implementing the aid project,” a cable said.

[danyboy27]

Correra has denied the claim, saying Lucas spoke on his own behalf.

Chavez should give him asylum.

Also, if CANADA wants you dead, that means there is no hope for you. :crying:
since when, beccause an idiot who USED TO BE part of the governement (he isnt anymore) say insane stuff mean that the country in wich he live in is in copmplete agreement with him?

Last time i checked no governement official in canada asked for the death of lassange, and i dont see that happening soon, the last thing the conservatives want is bad press about them.

[RadioRaheem84]

That is true. I did not mean to disparage Canada. I am just saying that if one person in the Canadian establishment wants you dead that says a lot about the mentality of establishment types, whether they're in social democratic nations like Canada or the US.

Point is, that Assange is not even safe in places like Canada or Australia, much less the US.

That is bad.

[Sosa]

He'd be safe in Cuba. Hell, Castro survived over 600 assassination attempts. At least thats were I would go for refuge in that situation

[Sosa]

The time has come. Obama will seek to criminalize Wikileaks


Top officials of the Obama administration have threatened criminal prosecution of WikiLeaks for its latest release of secret US diplomatic documents. Attorney General Eric Holder, at a press conference Monday, declared, “There’s a predicate for us to believe that crimes have been committed here and we are in the process of investigating those crimes.”
White House press secretary Robert Gibbs flatly declared WikiLeaks guilty without any investigation, saying, “Wikileaks and people that disseminate information to people like this are criminals.”
Press reports suggested that the focus of the Justice Department investigation was possible charges under the Espionage Act. The Washington Post reported, “the FBI is examining everyone who came into possession of the documents, including those who gave the materials to WikiLeaks and also the organization itself.”


http://wsws.org/articles/2010/dec2010/wiki-d01.shtml

[Jazzhands]

He'd be safe in Cuba. Hell, Castro survived over 600 assassination attempts. At least thats were I would go for refuge in that situation

That was not so much because he was in Cuba, and more because he was in charge, with state protection, and because he had been a guerrilla for a very long time, so he knew how killing with subterfuge works.

But yeah, I think he'd be somewhat safer in Cuba...assuming he could get there.

Before this latest leak, he was already being investigated as a formal witness in Sweden for sexual harassment charges. He's a citizen of Australia, so if they wanted they could simply invalidate his passport and put him on a no-fly list, trapping him in Scandinavia. That may be why nothing from Australia has been released yet.

He'd have to travel to a non-government-sanctioned airport using his own private vehicle, not stopping for gas anywhere he could possibly be seen by cops, then convince the airport's owner (who is probably either an organized crime lord, a drug smuggler, or a wealthy mogul who probably is trying to catch him too) to let him get on a plane (exponentially increasing penalties if they get caught) and fly all the way to another one of their airports in Cuba, the Bahamas or the Dominican Republic. Haiti isn't an option because it's under UN-imposed martial law. If he lands in Cuba, he'll have to get out of the airport and get to a police station, a customs office or something like that where he could apply for a work visa or protection of some kind, despite having come into the country illegally. If he lands in either of the other two, he'll have to evade the cops (who have very good relations with INTERPOL and the US) long enough to get a boat to Cuba.

[Blackscare]

^

Or, if Cuba or Venezuela want to protect him, they can simply make the offer and do what's been done for decades when you want to sneak a state spy/etc out of a country: fly him out on a private jet of some sort "secretly" with a diplomatic envoy.