Obama's Health Plans

[PoliticalNightmare]

Many on RevLeft here seem to argue that his healthcare plans are/were corporatist rather than socialist.

Is it not true then that he wants a free national healthcare for US citizens? What, in detail (though nothing overly complicated, please :D) were his proposals and how would RevLeft prefer to see a NHS in the US (keep in mind I am not talking about a post-revolutionary healthcare service rather one under the present day capitalist economic order)?

Cheers.

[Broletariat]

I don't think it matters a damn bit what he wanted, but what he did.

What he did was force every American to buy healthcare from private insurers, and did not obligate those private insurers to keep prices low, or quality of health care high. And actually it wasn't just him, lets face it you can't blame problems like this on one person, that's what they want you to do. "Oh it was just Obama's fault if we vote in the right guy it could work." No, it doesn't work that way, the problem is Capitalism, no matter who was in charge these sorts of things would be happening so long as Capitalism is alive and well.

[Sosa]

Years ago he was a proponent of NHS but then retracted and said it would never work, or something to that effect.

I think Cuba has a pretty good model that can be used and improved upon.

[Peace on Earth]

You can see his conversations with the for-profit health lobby, where he assured them there would not be a public option, much less a single-payer system.

For a present-day system. I'd like to see all hospitals managed locally, yet all costs relayed back to the federal government, which pays for them out of small tax increases on low-income citizens and large increases on high-income citizens.

[L.A.P.]

At least he tried, but the man is the biggest tool of a president ever.

[Broletariat]

At least he tried, but the man is the biggest tool of a president ever.
Anyone who genuinely wants to try would not get anywhere near the position of president, also the entire nation-state system is just a tool of the capitalist class anyway.

[Red Commissar]

Some of the "progressives" that supported him were under the impression a public option would be considered, and he did make statements to this effect. It was considered in original drafts of the bill, and later Obama would talk about this "insurance exchange" where the public option would compete with the private plans. The public option was put to the chopping block back in the fall of 2009 when they were trying to secure the votes of the conservative "Blue Dogs" in their party. The rising tide of red-baiting and hysteria led Obama to go into damage control and he said that he was not in favor of a public health plan.

So true to his concept of "compromising", he continued to move the plan more and more to the right.

What Obama's plan is essentially right now is mandating that everyone buy insurance, which they justify by saying the prices will be controlled. It will be similar to the system that was implemented in Massachussetts. Interestingly, I think much of it has similarities to the one of the main Republican counter proposals against the health-care reform in the 1990s that was advanced by Senator John Chafee of Rhode Island.

All in all it's shit, but the problem is that the wingnuts still associate the final product with a 'socialist' plan.

[Sosa]

At least he tried, but the man is the biggest tool of a president ever.

He wasn't even close to trying

[PoliticalNightmare]

Anyone who genuinely wants to try would not get anywhere near the position of president, also the entire nation-state system is just a tool of the capitalist class anyway.

Hmm...well Clement Attlee was successful in establishing the NHS in Britain so I'm sure at some point down the line the US will have a national health service :D

[Broletariat]

Hmm...well Clement Attlee was successful in establishing the NHS in Britain so I'm sure at some point down the line the US will have a national health service :D
I sort of doubt it considering all the welfare across the pond is currently being dismantled.

[PoliticalNightmare]

I sort of doubt it considering all the welfare across the pond is currently being dismantled.

No, I meant that I think there will eventually be a NHS in the US. You think in Britain the NHS will get privatised?

[Broletariat]

No, I meant that I think there will eventually be a NHS in the US. You think in Britain the NHS will get privatised?
Yea that's how I interpreted it originally.

I guess I don't know much about the political climate in Britain or anything but wouldn't it be beneficial to the bourgeoisie to privatise the NHS? That would seem to imply that eventually, so long as we're under capitalism, it's going to get privatised.

[PoliticalNightmare]

Yea that's how I interpreted it originally.

I guess I don't know much about the political climate in Britain or anything but wouldn't it be beneficial to the bourgeoisie to privatise the NHS? That would seem to imply that eventually, so long as we're under capitalism, it's going to get privatised.

I think that it would be in the interests of David Cameron and his "big society" to privatise the NHS but I think the decision would be so unpopular that it would be hard to implement and if it was implemented the British public would eventually demand it to be reverted. The NHS has been going for a long time and the British have a strong sense of national pride in it (I personally can't think of a country more fueled by nationalism than the UK, specifically England).

[Broletariat]

I think that it would be in the interests of David Cameron and his "big society" to privatise the NHS but I think the decision would be so unpopular that it would be hard to implement and if it was implemented the British public would eventually demand it to be reverted. The NHS has been going for a long time and the British have a strong sense of national pride in it (I personally can't think of a country more fueled by nationalism than the UK, specifically England).
Hmm alright.

I'm viewing this more in terms of, this crisis of Capitalism has gotten so bad the bourgeoisie can't stop the cuts even if they wanted to, they need to do everything they can to benefit themselves. They'll start disseminating propaganda against the NHS in Britain etc. to get popular opinion on their side if that becomes a problem. Eventually over time, and I mean a significant period of time, if Capitalism is allowed to persist all structures will cater explicitly to the bourgeoisie.

[Amphictyonis]

At least he tried, but the man is the biggest tool of a president ever.

He never 'tried'. Since day one Obama has been a member of the DLC (democratic leadership council) it's how he got into office. His senate 'mentor' was Joe Lieberman and 'best buddy' Rahm Emanuel. Rahm, Obama's chief of staff, is one of the men who lined up all the corporate funding for Obama's campaign. The details almst don't matter, as people have already pointed out the bourgeoisie run the state but don't hold any illusions that Obama is not a representative of the bourgeoisie.

Back in 2006 Rahm wrote a book entitled 'The Plan; Big Ideas For America', in it (along with endless war and strange Orwellian policies) the Obama health care plan as passed was lain out to the T and dotted I's.

To the OP- what do you think is socialist about private corporations using the coercive ability of the (their) state to force us to buy their product?

[PoliticalNightmare]

To the OP- what do you think is socialist about private corporations using the coercive ability of the (their) state to force us to buy their product?

Well I didn't know that this was the sort of healthcare plan Obama had in mind which was why I asked the question. Since he passed it off as a "national healthcare plan" I had the image of nationalised hospitals funded by tax payer's money that were available to all citizens regardless of income like the one we have in the UK.

[Amphictyonis]

Well I didn't know that this was the sort of healthcare plan Obama had in mind which was why I asked the question. Since he passed it off as a "national healthcare plan" I had the image of nationalised hospitals funded by tax payer's money that were available to all citizens regardless of income like the one we have in the UK.

Mass confusion was what the bourgeoisie wanted....mass confusion is what the bourgeoisie got and while it was happening they put their hands in the cookie jar :(

[Dimentio]

Some of the "progressives" that supported him were under the impression a public option would be considered, and he did make statements to this effect. It was considered in original drafts of the bill, and later Obama would talk about this "insurance exchange" where the public option would compete with the private plans. The public option was put to the chopping block back in the fall of 2008 when they were trying to secure the votes of the conservative "Blue Dogs" in their party. The rising tide of red-baiting and hysteria led Obama to go into damage control and he said that he was not in favor of a public health plan.

So true to his concept of "compromising", he continued to move the plan more and more to the right.

What Obama's plan is essentially right now is mandating that everyone buy insurance, which they justify by saying the prices will be controlled. It will be similar to the system that was implemented in Massachussetts. Interestingly, I think much of it has similarities to the one of the main Republican counter proposals against the health-care reform in the 1990s that was advanced by Senator John Chafee of Rhode Island.

All in all it's shit, but the problem is that the wingnuts still associate the final product with a 'socialist' plan.

The Republicans will probably keep this plan if they win in 2012, just because they too are in the knees of the insurance companies. If they move back to what they had before, the result would be lowered incomes for a vital part of the capitalist sector.

[NoOneIsIllegal]

Besides having no massive healthcare plan being implemented like we had, there were basically 3 choices:
Single Payer Universal Healthcare - the smart (and only good) idea. Of course this wasn't an idea Obama had coming into the presidency.

Public Option - a "moderate" approach that mandates capitalism. Obama supported this idea, but when the healthcare debates began, the idea wasnt even on the table, which lead us to...

The Ridiculous Bill that Passed - I don't know what to call it... STUPID? It's extremely corporate-friendly, just like the 2009 Energy bill that was passed. It lets the corporations take care of things (YEAH, I'M SURE...) and the working-class is suppose to just bend over and take it... We are forced into buying privatized healthcare plans, which can and will be outrageously pricey. It's as socialist as neo-nazi's are nice to minorities - not at all.

[Red Commissar]

The Republicans will probably keep this plan if they win in 2012, just because they too are in the knees of the insurance companies. If they move back to what they had before, the result would be lowered incomes for a vital part of the capitalist sector.

Yeah, which is why I suggest many of the Tea-baggers will be greatly disappointed when they see this occur. They'll make some token votes and edits here and there but in the long run it will essentially remain the same, or even better, be replaced with a more blatantly pro-Insurance scheme. The only difference really will be is the absence of red-baiting.

I mean, it just plays to the short-mindedness of American voters and their trust in the bourgeois system. Just in the past thirty years there is the economic legacy of Reaganomics, of the passage of NAFTA, the changes to the welfare system, the wars, etc- and simply voting one party in to replace the other doesn't change anything.

It's really just a revolving door if anything.