Corporate Propeganda Campains [Archive]

RGacky3

20th November 2010, 17:03

Stalin would be jizzing his pants at the sophistication of these Public relations firm's tallent at propeganda (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-moore/how-corporate-america-is_b_786114.html).

Seriously, creating front groups that pretend to be grass roots that are entirely funded by the industry they fight for, can you believe that? The lying that goes on and propeganda in the US is WAY more sophisticated than totalitarian regeims in the past.

You know when you see videos of tons of people in red square praising Stalin? Thats EXACTLY the same as these right wing front groups pretending to be grass roots, its propeganda, clear and obvious lies, and some Americans are suckers and believe it. Its amazing.

milk

21st November 2010, 12:20

It isn't surprising. And anyway, such things are known without Michael Moore, who is, let's be honest, a soft liberal millionaire. Fuck him.

ComradeMan

21st November 2010, 12:22

Bud Struggle

21st November 2010, 12:54

But that's what freedom looks like--you can take it at face value or dig deeper--the decision is yours. They are free to do whatever they want and you are free o do whatever you want. :)

Demogorgon

21st November 2010, 13:23

But that's what freedom looks like--you can take it at face value or dig deeper--the decision is yours. They are free to do whatever they want and you are free o do whatever you want. :)
How is it freedom for them to have the power to manipulate the rules under which I must live? There is a distinct problem with any conception of freedom that involves me being forced to live under inferior circumstances due to the wealth of other groups whom I have not consented to follow the rules of.

ComradeMan

21st November 2010, 14:11

RGacky3

21st November 2010, 15:01

It's called advertising!!!!!! LOL!!!

What is advertising if it's not subliminal corporate propaganda designed to perpetuate commodity fetishism?

Its not advertising, its not selling a product, its not saying "hey buy from our company."

This is ideological propeganda using lies and monied pressure.

But that's what freedom looks like--you can take it at face value or dig deeper--the decision is yours. They are free to do whatever they want and you are free o do whatever you want. :)

They are free to do what they can afford to do, and so I am.

Thats not freedom Bud.

ComradeMan

21st November 2010, 15:11

Its not advertising, its not selling a product, its not saying "hey buy from our company."

This is ideological propeganda using lies and monied pressure.

They are free to do what they can afford to do, and so I am.

Thats not freedom Bud.

Advertising is about publicity, it's not just about directly trying to convince people to buy your product in an overt sense- although that is always the fundamental goal of anything a company does.

Revolution starts with U

21st November 2010, 16:39

It's not really freedom... are we forgetting Project Mockingbird?

Bud Struggle

21st November 2010, 17:08

It's not really freedom... are we forgetting Project Mockingbird?

I'll agree there--the government should NEVER be involved with the freedom of the press. This kind of stuff bothers me.

They are free to do what they can afford to do, and so I am.

Thats not freedom Bud. As long as the government isn't involved, this kind of stuff doesn't bother me.

Ele'ill

21st November 2010, 20:18

The issue becomes who has access to air an opinion. Really, let's think about this for a long while before moving forward with this conversation.

Lt. Ferret

21st November 2010, 21:03

Bud Struggle

21st November 2010, 21:30

who gives a shit? i was a punk before i was anything else its not hard not to buy Nike products or Mcdonalds or Fubu, what the fucking fuck is wrong with people? I don't even have tv set up at my house so I have no idea about advertising anymore. It isn't part of my life. It shouldn't be a part of yours.

I couldn't agree more. I only have TV with rabbit ears--3 snowey channels and 1 good one--but on in the summer for some reason.

It sems the Capitalists don't even watch that crap--and the Commies have 1000 stations and 48" TVs and watch commercials all day long. :D

Ele'ill

21st November 2010, 22:02

who gives a shit? i was a punk before i was anything else its not hard not to buy Nike products or Mcdonalds or Fubu, what the fucking fuck is wrong with people? I don't even have tv set up at my house so I have no idea about advertising anymore. It isn't part of my life. It shouldn't be a part of yours.

Irrelevant statement.

Many people are affected by advertising.

It sems the Capitalists don't even watch that crap--and the Commies have 1000 stations and 48" TVs and watch commercials all day long. http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/smilies/biggrin.gif

What?

Revolution starts with U

21st November 2010, 22:17

I couldn't agree more. I only have TV with rabbit ears--3 snowey channels and 1 good one--but on in the summer for some reason.

It sems the Capitalists don't even watch that crap--and the Commies have 1000 stations and 48" TVs and watch commercials all day long. :D
A lie and a troll in one post Bud. Gratz :thumbup1:
(They don't carry television over air anymore. Just FYI. Have to get a digital converter)

Revolution starts with U

21st November 2010, 22:18

Oh btw, I don't have cable. I internet everything :thumbup1:

Lt. Ferret

21st November 2010, 22:20

Irrelevant statement.

Many people are affected by advertising.

What?

well they are idiots and voluntarily act like idiots and its their fault.

Bud Struggle

21st November 2010, 22:22

A lie and a troll in one post Bud. Gratz :thumbup1:
(They don't carry television over air anymore. Just FYI. Have to get a digital converter)

I HAVE a digital converter and it works with rabbit ears. :) A zenith.

Ele'ill

21st November 2010, 22:23

well they are idiots and voluntarily act like idiots and its their fault.

This coming from somebody who wor... (how's the wine?)

Is this conversation going more towards 'current advertising practices and how they affect people negatively' or more along the lines of 'what does media power structure look like' ?

Revolution starts with U

21st November 2010, 22:30

You don't need the ears if it's digital... just keep diggin that hole Bud :rolleyes:

Ele'ill

21st November 2010, 22:34

I don't have internet- I cable everything

Bud Struggle

21st November 2010, 22:34

You don't need the ears if it's digital... just keep diggin that hole Bud :rolleyes:

YES YOU DO!!!! Look it up.

I did: http://www.nextag.com/digital-rabbit-ears/products-html

Aloysius

21st November 2010, 22:35

Michael Moore is an asshole anyway. He's just a leftist Glenn Beck.

Revolution starts with U

21st November 2010, 22:35

lol, maybe you do. My TV has the antenna internal so I wouldn't know.

RGacky3

21st November 2010, 22:38

I'll agree there--the government should NEVER be involved with the freedom of the press. This kind of stuff bothers me.

Neither should corporations.

As long as the government isn't involved, this kind of stuff doesn't bother me.

So really your problem is with democracy, you, like other capitalists, would rather freedom not be a right, but instead be according to your wealth.

See the government is democratic, corporations are tyrannical.

Anyway, THIS IS NOT TALKING ABOUT ADVERTISING, this is political astroturf, corporate manipulation of information and that sort of thing. NOT "hey buy my product."

Bud Struggle

21st November 2010, 22:49

Neither should corporations. Because they are private--it seem hard to stop them. Again--I won't fight to support their right to do this kind of thing. I really don't care one way or another. But untimately I like freedom of speech.

So really your problem is with democracy, you, like other capitalists, would rather freedom not be a right, but instead be according to your wealth. If you aqre crazy ehough to pay attention to anything a corporation says--then you deserve what you get. I have a business--I write advertising copy for it, I know it's all crap.

See the government is democratic, corporations are tyrannical. Corporations aren't a part of my life.

Anyway, THIS IS NOT TALKING ABOUT ADVERTISING, this is political astroturf, corporate manipulation of information and that sort of thing. NOT "hey buy my product." Again--if you listen to ANYTHING that a corporation says and believe it, no matter what--you deserve what you get. I have a problem with limiting freedom of speech.

Ele'ill

21st November 2010, 22:53

But people are affected by what corporations say- they are tricked into harming themselves and their communities.

Very very very rarely if at all will you see the counter-points air.

ComradeMan

21st November 2010, 22:59

Everything a corporation does is advertising, manoevring and generally aiming at selling it's product- it's all p.r., marketing and advertising in a sense.

Lt. Ferret

21st November 2010, 22:59

But people are affected by what corporations say- they are tricked into harming themselves and their communities.

Very very very rarely if at all will you see the counter-points air.

what tricks? do people honestly think they will sweat green in they drink gatorade? no. and if anyone thinks that, then theyre bound to eat an electrical outlet anyways.

Ele'ill

21st November 2010, 23:01

By tapping into gender/age related issues, race, class so on and so forth. There is a reason that corporate PR and advertising positions pay so well- it's where most of the energy goes.

WeAreReborn

21st November 2010, 23:05

Because they are private--it seem hard to stop them. Again--I won't fight to support their right to do this kind of thing. I really don't care one way or another. But untimately I like freedom of speech.
So you don't care one way or another? I thought you just said you like freedom? :confused: And it isn't hard to stop them just eliminate Capitalism. :)

If you aqre crazy ehough to pay attention to anything a corporation says--then you deserve what you get. I have a business--I write advertising copy for it, I know it's all crap.
A lot of people are born brainwashed into, mainly the parent's fault for sitting their kids in front of tv all day. People react differently to their surroundings and this could be getting brainwashed much easier. It doesn't mean they are necessarily stupid.

Corporations aren't a part of my life.
So you never buy a product ever? Or if you do it is purely local and you grow all your food? Though it is possible I sort of doubt it. They do effect your life by supplying you the goods you need in return for being a wage slave, but I guess doesn't apply for you since from what I have read you yourself own a company...

Again--if you listen to ANYTHING that a corporation says and believe it, no matter what--you deserve what you get. I have a problem with limiting freedom of speech.
Freedom of speech applies to people, corporations aren't people. It is practically a machine it runs off of only pure statistics and crushes everything in its way to do so. Freedom of speech is great but remember it only applies to humans not to machines.

Amphictyonis

21st November 2010, 23:14

If you aqre crazy ehough to pay attention to anything a corporation says--then you deserve what you get. I have a business--I write advertising copy for it, I know it's all crap.
.
Yes. Capitalist enterprise is all crap and built on lies selling mostly junk no one needs in order for snake oil salesmen to enjoy this fraudulant hierchichal set up of a pyramid scam. Couldn't have said it any better myself Bud ;)

Revolution starts with U

21st November 2010, 23:15

Yes, to assert that corporations can have free speech asserts that they are people. And everyone knows people can't own people. So let us burn down the corporations for being slave masters to their fellows! :thumbup1:

Bud Struggle

21st November 2010, 23:15

So you don't care one way or another? I thought you just said you like freedom? :confused: And it isn't hard to stop them just eliminate Capitalism. :) Well you are right--that is the alternative plan. :)

A lot of people are born brainwashed into, mainly the parent's fault for sitting their kids in front of tv all day. People react differently to their surroundings and this could be getting brainwashed much easier. It doesn't mean they are necessarily stupid. Please show me where they people have asked YOU to come in and be their savior. Are you going to fill them up with your propaganda?

So you never buy a product ever? Or if you do it is purely local and you grow all your food? Though it is possible I sort of doubt it. They do effect your life by supplying you the goods you need in return for being a wage slave, but I guess doesn't apply for you since from what I have read you yourself own a company... I'm not a wage slave, but I use products from corporations when they suit me. I use their product--they don't use me. As long as you keep that in mind no one can control you.

Freedom of speech applies to people, corporations aren't people. It is practically a machine it runs off of only pure statistics and crushes everything in its way to do so. Freedom of speech is great but remember it only applies to humans not to machines. In the USA (I don't know where you are from) corporation are treated almost exactly as people. (They can't vote.)

Lt. Ferret

21st November 2010, 23:16

i bought coffee today its pretty good i put it in my coffee maker that i bought a couple years ago and put in some coffee filters as well and some water and made coffee and i poured this coffee into a cup i bought and then drank it while i sat on my couch i bought and watched the tv i bought.

god being a wage slave kicks so much more ass than living in north korea.

Revolution starts with U

21st November 2010, 23:17

Yes, people who are allowed to own other people. Corporate slavery, and not only through the wage system, but they enslave other corporations as well.
At least feudal lords looked out for each other. There is no honor amongst capitalists :thumbup1:

Bud Struggle

21st November 2010, 23:18

Yes. Capitalist enterprise is all crap and built on lies selling mostly junk no one needs in order for snake oil salesmen to enjoy this fraudulant hierchichal set up of a pyramid scam. Couldn't have said it any better myself Bud ;)

I imagine you believe Bugs Bunny cartoons and want them abolished, too.

Revolution starts with U

21st November 2010, 23:18

Lt. Ferret

21st November 2010, 23:20

So you're a house nigger (no offense please). You're still a slave :rolleyes:

i dont see how im a slave, really. if i wanted to be self sufficient i would have gotten a farm. i grew up on a very small ranch. all of these purchases are voluntary. nothing about slavery.

the only thing that i have to involuntarily do is pay taxes, and even then i can skirt the law and buy black market goods.

WeAreReborn

21st November 2010, 23:21

Please show me where they people have asked YOU to come in and be their savior. Are you going to fill them up with your propaganda?
Maybe it is because I didn't get a lot of sleep last night but I have no idea what you mean by this.

I'm not a wage slave, but I use products from corporations when they suit me. I use their product--they don't use me. As long as you keep that in mind no one can control you.
Well lucky you. :)

In the USA (I don't know where you are from) corporation are treated almost exactly as people. (They can't vote.)
I live in America but they shouldn't be treated as people at all. I know they are but it doesn't mean they should.

god being a wage slave kicks so much more ass than living in north korea.
I'm sure North Korea is a horrible place to live but I can't say so definitively and I assume you can't either.... But just because it is better then something else that is horrible doesn't mean it is good. Just like being waterboarded is better then say having bamboo shards stabbed underneath your fingernails. Does that mean getting waterboarded is a good thing?

RGacky3

21st November 2010, 23:23

Because they are private--it seem hard to stop them. Again--I won't fight to support their right to do this kind of thing. I really don't care one way or another. But untimately I like freedom of speech.

There are ways, but its just showing that democracy and freedom of speach are incompatible with capitalism, and how totalitarian capitalism is.

If you aqre crazy ehough to pay attention to anything a corporation says--then you deserve what you get. I have a business--I write advertising copy for it, I know it's all crap.

Jesus christ Bud, did you read the article? THIS IS NOT ADVERTISING, and its not directly done by the corporations, its front groups, created by the corporations as fake political organizations fighting for things that increase corporate power.

Corporations aren't a part of my life.

Really Bud? Who owns your morgage? your Car? Your car Insurance? Your health insurance? who do you buy stuff from? Who prices your gas? Where do you get your clothes from? WHo finances your comapny? Where do you by the resources and capital for your company? Where do you get your food? Where do your taxes go? why is there war in the middle east? Who owns your government?

Corporations are not part of my life? ARe you fucking stupid?

Again--if you listen to ANYTHING that a corporation says and believe it, no matter what--you deserve what you get. I have a problem with limiting freedom of speech.

Read the article Bud, this is corporations SETTING UP POLITICAL ORGANISATIONS THAT PRETEND TO BE LEGITIMATE GRASS ROOTS GROUPS.

Corporations limit freedom of speach more than the USSR could ever dream of.

Revolution starts with U

21st November 2010, 23:24

Who would you sell your products to? (Farmers that don't sell wholesale require subsidies to survive. even most of the big farms need them to)
How would you employ people if you needed extra labor?

In capitalism, you are either slave, slave master, or a vagrant; there's no way around it.

Ele'ill

21st November 2010, 23:26

Vagrant! :thumbup1:

Bud Struggle

21st November 2010, 23:31

There are ways, but its just showing that democracy and freedom of speach are incompatible with capitalism, and how totalitarian capitalism is. Maybe you didn't get the memo--but on RevLeft there is no such thing as Totaqlitarianism. :D

Jesus christ Bud, did you read the article? THIS IS NOT ADVERTISING, and its not directly done by the corporations, its front groups, created by the corporations as fake political organizations fighting for things that increase corporate power. I know what it is--but all the info behind this stuff is readily available and people can find out if they are interested. You have to give the WORKER more credit. They aren't as stupid as you think.

Really Bud? Who owns your morgage? your Car? Your car Insurance? Your health insurance? who do you buy stuff from? Who prices your gas? Where do you get your clothes from? WHo finances your comapny? Where do you by the resources and capital for your company? Where do you get your food? Where do your taxes go? why is there war in the middle east? Who owns your government? Personally I don't believe in morgages--you should OWN the property you live on, but besides for that I buy stuff all the time, but that'd doesn't make the things I buy part of my life. I buy them I use them and that's it.

Corporations are not part of my life? Are you fucking stupid? Well f I am I'm an Idiot Savant! :D

Read the article Bud, this is corporations SETTING UP POLITICAL ORGANISATIONS THAT PRETEND TO BE LEGITIMATE GRASS ROOTS GROUPS. Yea, it's not great--but it's better than limiting the freedom of speech. Once you start it's a slippery slope.

RGacky3

21st November 2010, 23:37

but on RevLeft there is no such thing as Totaqlitarianism.

Don't pay attention to Leninists and their pointless semantics games.

You have to give the WORKER more credit. They aren't as stupid as you think.

The Average worker does'nt research the background in every political ad campain they see, they see "citizens for freedom" or whatever and they don't think about it. Because they don't know about the background. It has nothing to do with stupidity.

Personally I don't believe in morgages--you should OWN the property you live on, but besides for that I buy stuff all the time, but that'd doesn't make the things I buy part of my life. I buy them I use them and that's it.

YOu live in a soceity controlled by corporate interests bud, the stuff you buy are art of your life whether you like it or not. Now your just being silly, corporations are more part of your life than the government ever will be.

Yea, it's not great--but it's better than limiting the freedom of speech. Once you start it's a slippery slope.

I'm not saying limit freedom of speech, I'm saying corporations are not people and should'nt have the rights of people.

Lt. Ferret

21st November 2010, 23:46

Stand back guys I'm about to blow your minds. I went to the store and bought one item and did not buy every item in the store, no matter how big the budget was for that company's advertising wing.

i bought a pie tin. im making a pie. :thumbup1:

Ele'ill

22nd November 2010, 00:12

Lt. Ferret

22nd November 2010, 00:14

I like pie.

Ele'ill

22nd November 2010, 00:16

Same thing.

Skooma Addict

22nd November 2010, 00:18

Seriously, creating front groups that pretend to be grass roots that are entirely funded by the industry they fight for, can you believe that? The lying that goes on and propeganda in the US is WAY more sophisticated than totalitarian regeims in the past.

I think that might be a slight exaggeration...

Lt. Ferret

22nd November 2010, 00:47

Same thing.

Even if its the case I can live with it.

Ele'ill

22nd November 2010, 01:14

Even if its the case I can live with it.

But then you agree that advertising affects a lot of people

Lt. Ferret

22nd November 2010, 03:23

But then you agree that advertising affects a lot of people

sure, but a lot of stupid things influence a lot of stupid people. don't let it influence you. tell people why something thats influencing them is stupid or wrong or unhealthy or harmful.

but people generally arent that stupid. some people LIKE following advertising and trends. i dont. but some do.

Amphictyonis

22nd November 2010, 10:20

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilfred_Trotter

2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustave_Le_Bon

and.....

3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays

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V0OrT-8gXMs

RGacky3

22nd November 2010, 10:41

I think that might be a slight exaggeration...

I don't think so, look at the tea party, hell look at the red scares, look how many people think Obama is a muslim and/or a socialist.

Bud Struggle

22nd November 2010, 11:50

I don't think so, look at the tea party, hell look at the red scares, look how many people think Obama is a muslim and/or a socialist.

Well if in an educated country like the US--people can't take the time to figure out the BS from reality--maybe they need to be taken care.

RGacky3

22nd November 2010, 11:56

Well if in an educated country like the US--people can't take the time to figure out the BS from reality--maybe they need to be taken care.

Educated??? I'm sorry Bud, but when your drowned in BS from day 1 and througout your life, unless your doing your own research and reading, its gonna be very very hard to differentiate.

THats why in the USSR people believed the propeganda, because that was the only info they were getting. Yet what the believed was way different from the perception of the rest of the world. Really its the same situation in the US.

Bud Struggle

22nd November 2010, 12:09

Educated??? I'm sorry Bud, but when your drowned in BS from day 1 and througout your life, unless your doing your own research and reading, its gonna be very very hard to differentiate.

THats why in the USSR people believed the propeganda, because that was the only info they were getting. Yet what the believed was way different from the perception of the rest of the world. Really its the same situation in the US.

The information is out there and people can read. That's the best it gets unless you and your friends provide them with your version of BS. And yea, that's life you have to fend for yourself, you have to read and learn and figure things out. What you are proposing in the future is exactly the same as what is going on now except you and to feed people your version of the truth.

The difference between the US and the USSR is that the information WASN'T out there for the Russians--they only could find out one side of things.

You are always going to get BS--no matter who serves it up, but as long as you can find opposing points of view you can make a worthwhile decision. And in America all that information is available--you may have to search to find it--but nobody said life is easy. :)

RGacky3

22nd November 2010, 12:22

What you are proposing in the future is exactly the same as what is going on now except you and to feed people your version of the truth.

What I'm proposing is a world in which money and class interest does'nt determine what gets printed and what gets air time. What I"m proposing is a world where corporations don't control the mass flow of information, and to get any truth you have to search for obscure government leaks that don't get any press or media time.

The difference between the US and the USSR is that the information WASN'T out there for the Russians--they only could find out one side of things.

Actually yes it was to a large extent, there were lots of leaks and things like that in the USSR, except the state media just dismissed it and/or ignored it, the same as the corporate media in the US, they just ignore it, and the corporate media has a monopoly on the media really. Because people work 8 hour days and the corporate media is the loudest because they can afford to be.

But I'm glad you want everything determined by money, I'd rather not.

You are always going to get BS--no matter who serves it up, but as long as you can find opposing points of view you can make a worthwhile decision. And in America all that information is available--you may have to search to find it--but nobody said life is easy.

Of coarse, I'm I'm glad it is available, but that does'nt mean corporations should'nt be people and media should'nt be public rather than corporate.

It also does'nt mean that corporations act exactly the same way as totalitarian regiems.

Bud Struggle

22nd November 2010, 13:14

What I'm proposing is a world in which money and class interest does'nt determine what gets printed and what gets air time. What I"m proposing is a world where corporations don't control the mass flow of information, and to get any truth you have to search for obscure government leaks that don't get any press or media time. The problem is there will ALWAYS be particular interests. If it's not money cand class it will be something else. The Soviet Union (which started out as a good idea) soon found away around the Capitalist Bourgeois problem by creating another class and money sructure of its own. Different, but the same. You think there isn't something like that in Cuba? It is and has always been "meet the new boss, same as the old boss."

Actually yes it was to a large extent, there were lots of leaks and things like that in the USSR, except the state media just dismissed it and/or ignored it, the same as the corporate media in the US, they just ignore it, and the corporate media has a monopoly on the media really. Because people work 8 hour days and the corporate media is the loudest because they can afford to be. And people discount the media and people discout corporate propaganda. For a Communist you don't give the people very much credit for thing for themselves.

RGacky3

22nd November 2010, 13:28

And people discount the media and people discout corporate propaganda. For a Communist you don't give the people very much credit for thing for themselves.

Well, for the most part they do, and for the most part corporate propeganda is very very well vailed (and unless you do ots of research theres no way of knowing that).

I give Americans tremendous credit for being as progressive as they are considering massiave propeganda that goes on.

That being said. Its just more evidence that corporations are private tyrranies.

The problem is there will ALWAYS be particular interests. If it's not money cand class it will be something else. The Soviet Union (which started out as a good idea) soon found away around the Capitalist Bourgeois problem by creating another class and money sructure of its own. Different, but the same. You think there isn't something like that in Cuba? It is and has always been "meet the new boss, same as the old boss."

Of coarse, the particular interest I'm for is the interests of the people, i.e. democracy.

Your bring up the SOviet Union, but thats a moot point.

Skooma Addict

22nd November 2010, 16:41

I don't think so, look at the tea party, hell look at the red scares, look how many people think Obama is a muslim and/or a socialist.

I mean look at the Hitler youth. America isn't nearly as bad as that.

RGacky3

22nd November 2010, 16:43

I mean look at the Hitler youth. America isn't nearly as bad as that.

Well, goddamn, you got me.

BTW, let me be clear, I'm not saying this sort thing shoulded be banned, what I'm saying is that corporations are not people and should not be treated as them.

I'm also saying that that corporations are tyrannical institutions of power. They should'nt have to protect their power, because they should'nt have it to begin with.

RGacky3

22nd November 2010, 19:00

BTW, based on the ideas you had about Obama being a socialist, about what public healthcare was about, your idea that the tea party was a real grass roots movement, it seams like you are one of those suckers that bought into the propeganda.

Skooma Addict

22nd November 2010, 19:28

RGacky3

22nd November 2010, 19:59

no Bud.

Bud Struggle

22nd November 2010, 21:47

no Bud.

Hey Gack--just got back from opressing the Proletariat! Let me read the thread and I'll get back to you! :D

Bud Struggle

22nd November 2010, 22:03

BTW, let me be clear, I'm not saying this sort thing shoulded be banned, what I'm saying is that corporations are not people and should not be treated as them. And I honestly can take that either way. It doesn't matter to me. While I take the other side of the argument when you present it--I PERSONALLY don't care one way or another. As long as MY freedom of speech is not diminshed. (And that would be Bud Struggle, not Bud Struggle Enterprises.)

I'm also saying that that corporations are tyrannical institutions of power. They should'nt have to protect their power, because they should'nt have it to begin with. I think you are over the top there--

RGacky3

22nd November 2010, 22:11

As long as MY freedom of speech is not diminshed. (And that would be Bud Struggle, not Bud Struggle Enterprises.)

It is, diminished, if 1 guy has 95% of the speach, then your speach is diminished, when Politicians only listen to the rich and not people their speach is diminished, when speach is dependant on money, then those without is diminished. This is real freedom in the real world, not theoretical freedom.

I think you are over the top there--

Which part is over the top? And why?

Bud Struggle

22nd November 2010, 22:22

It is, diminished, if 1 guy has 95% of the speach, then your speach is diminished, when Politicians only listen to the rich and not people their speach is diminished, when speach is dependant on money, then those without is diminished. This is real freedom in the real world, not theoretical freedom. Let me make this straight--I don't deal with US Senators, but I do a lot of land issues, zoning and such and so I deal with State and county officials--and almost always, if not always I have found these people pretty damn honest. I don't do pay offs I don't know anyone who does. When I'm denied something--it's usually on pretty solid grounds and when I'm permitted--it's the same. I've seen land and real estate deal made for millions of dollars--and I've never seen an illegal penny change hands.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen--but it's not regular and it is very often found out and prosecuted.

Which part is over the top? And why? I think you have a bug up your ass about corporations--and some do bad things, GRANTED but 95% of them are made up of pretty decent people trying to make a fair living.

RGacky3

22nd November 2010, 22:26

Let me make this straight--I don't deal with US Senators, but I do a lot of land issues, zoning and such and so I deal with State and county officials--and almost always, if not always I have found these people pretty damn honest. I don't do pay offs I don't know anyone who does. When I'm denied something--it's usually on pretty solid grounds and when I'm permitted--it's the same. I've seen land and real estate deal made for millions of dollars--and I've never seen an illegal penny change hands.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen--but it's not regular and it is very often found out and prosecuted.

Did you read what I wrote? Because that post has nothing do to do with what you quoted.

I think you have a bug up your ass about corporations--and some do bad things, GRANTED but 95% of them are made up of pretty decent people trying to make a fair living.

Also 95% of dictators are honest people trying to run their country the best way they can .... So what, does'nt change the fact that they are tyranical institutions of power and don't deserve that power. Thats not an argument Bud.

ComradeMan

22nd November 2010, 22:28

Also 95% of dictators are honest people trying to run their country the best way they can .... So what, does'nt change the fact that they are tyranical institutions of power and don't deserve that power. Thats not an argument Bud.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

No Gacky..... no......

RGacky3

22nd November 2010, 22:30

Yes, they would say that. As would monarchs.

ComradeMan

22nd November 2010, 22:32

Yes, they would say that. As would monarchs.

Think about the difference ;)

Most people will always justify themselves.....

It's like when people talk nostalgically about the "old mafia"....

Bud Struggle

22nd November 2010, 22:34

Did you read what I wrote? Because that post has nothing do to do with what you quoted. Gack--it ain't all about YOU. Anyway I said that they don't listen to me and I'm rich. I said they are for the most part honest from what I can see.. That's my intel--what's yours?

Also 95% of dictators are honest people trying to run their country the best way they can .... So what, does'nt change the fact that they are tyranical institutions of power and don't deserve that power. Thats not an argument Bud.

Did I mention BUG UP YOUR ASS? You hate corporate people like Nazis hate Jews.

RGacky3

22nd November 2010, 22:39

Gack--it ain't all about YOU.

If you quote me, then write under it, then it is about me, you know how Forums work.

Did I mention BUG UP YOUR ASS? You have corporate people like Nazis hate Jews.

Why not make an actual point, or respond to one. How am I wrong?

Think about the difference ;)

Most people will always justify themselves.....

It's like when people talk nostalgically about the "old mafia"....

The difference is monarchs are not legally bared from being benevolent and legally required to make quarterly profits.

I'm saying corporations are totalitarian institutions, by definition.

Bud Struggle

22nd November 2010, 22:51

If you quote me, then write under it, then it is about me, you know how Forums work. I edited a bit but it was right in line with the conversation.

Why not make an actual point, or respond to one. How am I wrong? You don't thing you go a bit "crazy" when corporations are mentioned?

Revolution starts with U

22nd November 2010, 23:48

Were this 1822 I would get crazy as fuck if you mentioned slave masters. Oh, btw, many of those were just honest decent people trying to make a living too. It's not always neccessarily the people that are evil (in fact, it rarely ever is. i think that <~ is a prerequisite for being a libertarian) it's the system itself.

RGacky3

23rd November 2010, 09:49

You don't thing you go a bit "crazy" when corporations are mentioned?

What do I say thats wrong? Or Crazy?

I think its crazy that you think the US is usually the "good guy" you've been reading too many captain american comics.

Amphictyonis

27th November 2010, 08:27

I mean look at the Hitler youth. America isn't nearly as bad as that.

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilfred_Trotter

2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustave_Le_Bon

and.....

3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays

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US corporations started using the works of Gusave le Bon in the early 20'th century. Gusave le Bon is the man who inspired Hitler's propaganda approach and the Italian fascists the same. It was Edward Bernays who pushed for the same tactics the Nazi's used. He thought a truly democratic society would lead to the end of the world so....had this view-

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy) society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government) which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human) beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ...In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics) or business, in our social conduct or our ethical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethical) thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind"

-Edward Bernays-

He worked with the bourgeoisie to make sure the people wouldn't have any wise ideas (socialism being one). These techniques are still, to this day, being used by the bourgeoisie and are a big obstacle in the way of class consciousness. I'd say they've been just as effective as Hitler. Different objectives mind you but their aims have indeed been met.