RevLeft Tendency Poll

[ComradeMan]

RevLeft Tendency Poll

Please note there is a maximum of 20 for poll options, so if yours is not on there, you can specify with other.

Multi-votes are allowed.

[red cat]

Maoist.

Useful thread btw.

[RGacky3]

you could have condensed that list significantly.

[Widerstand]

undogmatic.

Also, that list is pretty weird. Way too many obscure tendencies (Titoism, Guevaraism, Castroism). Also what's the difference between "not listed above" and "other?"

[ComradeMan]

undogmatic.

Also, that list is pretty weird. Way too many obscure tendencies (Titoism, Guevaraism, Castroism). Also what's the difference between "not listed above" and "other?"

Well with a maxim of 20 poll options it was difficult- I had originally a list that was over 40- so I tried to narrow it down. :confused:

Not listed above- means a tendency that may derive from one of the above but be held to be different, like with anarcho- tendencies.

Other- a completely different tendency like for example yellow-socialism or primitivism.

But really they should have been combined perhaps... :blushing:

Hey, it's not perfect I know... but just for interest. :D:thumbup:

[Sosa]

Anarchist?

[andrew]

I'm a Buddhist anarchist, so i hope that religion would not be abolished in the revolution, but I wouldn't want my religious tendencies to be what the government (or lack of one) is centered around.

[Revolution starts with U]

Too many of those I really know nothing about. :confused:

[ComradeMan]

Too many of those I really know nothing about. :confused:

Use the Force young Jedi...! :lol:

[Oswy]

I identified myself as Marxist but I'm not really a big reader of Marx himself - I have tended to look to more recent work. If it's history it might be E.P. Thompson or Eric Hobsbawm, if it's social theory then it might be Gramsci or Bourdieu, if it's analysis as relates to capitalism as a global economic and social system then it's David Harvey or Alex Callinicos (I'm waiting for Harry Shutt's latest book - anyone heard of him?).

Anyway, I was wondering if others think that self-identifying Marxists who don't spend much time reading Marx (other than when he's quoted by more recent authors) are falling short or missing out. I think my problem is that a long time ago I picked up Marx's Capital as my 'introduction' and found it way too heavy-going to keep up with. Any views?

[Rafiq]

I'm just a Communist.

I look at all the arguments, and I decide for myself which to side with.

I have no specific tendency.

[scarletghoul]

I put marxist, leninist, maoist, stalinist, anarcho-communist, not listed above, and other

All of those have influenced me a lot but none of them are full descriptions of my 'tendency'.. Not included on the poll is the Black Panther ideology which is to me as important as Marx Lenin and Mao.

Good thread though. Its impossible to make a poll like this that pleases everyone, so don't let the haters get to you

[revolution inaction]

I identified myself as Marxist but I'm not really a big reader of Marx himself - I have tended to look to more recent work. If it's history it might be E.P. Thompson or Eric Hobsbawm, if it's social theory then it might be Gramsci or Bourdieu, if it's analysis as relates to capitalism as a global economic and social system then it's David Harvey or Alex Callinicos (I'm waiting for Harry Shutt's latest book - anyone heard of him?).

Anyway, I was wondering if others think that self-identifying Marxists who don't spend much time reading Marx (other than when he's quoted by more recent authors) are falling short or missing out. I think my problem is that a long time ago I picked up Marx's Capital as my 'introduction' and found it way too heavy-going to keep up with. Any views?

why do you identify as a marxist? what is wrong with calling your self a communist/socialist/anarchist?

[ComradeMan]

I identified myself as Marxist but I'm not really a big reader of Marx himself - I have tended to look to more recent work. If it's history it might be E.P. Thompson or Eric Hobsbawm, if it's social theory then it might be Gramsci or Bourdieu, if it's analysis as relates to capitalism as a global economic and social system then it's David Harvey or Alex Callinicos (I'm waiting for Harry Shutt's latest book - anyone heard of him?).

Anyway, I was wondering if others think that self-identifying Marxists who don't spend much time reading Marx (other than when he's quoted by more recent authors) are falling short or missing out. I think my problem is that a long time ago I picked up Marx's Capital as my 'introduction' and found it way too heavy-going to keep up with. Any views?

Das Kapital is hardly a coffee table book.... I see what you mean.:thumbup1:

But it is worth ploughing through too.... just don't get deppressed!!:lol:

[Oswy]

why do you identify as a marxist? what is wrong with calling your self a communist/socialist/anarchist?

There's nothing wrong with those, though as I'm not particularly opposed to the existence of the state (i.e. as an institution of scale through which a society can better coordinate its activities) until or unless socialism has advanced to the extent that the disadvantages of its existence outweigh its advantages, I don't really identify with anarchism.

I think I'm probably more interested in calling myself a marxist than a communist or socialist only because I'm specifically drawn to the analytical power of marxism as the 'starting point' for my communist/socialist values.

[revolution inaction]

There's nothing wrong with those, though as I'm not particularly opposed to the existence of the state (i.e. as an institution of scale through which a society can better coordinate its activities)

anarchists support that, its not a state




I think I'm probably more interested in calling myself a marxist than a communist or socialist only because I'm specifically drawn to the analytical power of marxism as the 'starting point' for my communist/socialist values.
but you don't need to be a marxist to make use of the good stuff from marx

[Dimentio]

Technocrat - www.eoslife.eu

[Lt. Ferret]

i dont know what a 21st century socialist is so i put that.

[RGacky3]

its just what Hugo Chavez calls himself, all it means is basic democratic socialism but a lot more grass roots.

[L.A.P.]

you should have put Marxist, Leninist, Stalinist together under one and then had a split between Hoxhaist and Maoist because you forgot Anarchist which is too important to leave out.

[ComradeMan]

you should have put Marxist, Leninist, Stalinist together under one and then had a split between Hoxhaist and Maoist because you forgot Anarchist which is too important to leave out.

Anarchist-communist? Anarchist-syndicalist?

Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist? I can just imagine the ensuing tendency war... :lol:

[JerryBiscoTrey]

Other- a completely different tendency like for example yellow-socialism or primitivism.



What is Yellow Socialism?

[ComradeMan]

What is Yellow Socialism?

A sinister organisation headed by Lieut. Ferret it seems! :lol:

[#FF0000]

I just said Marxist but I really don't know tbh. I think my views are actually more in line with trotskyist groups.

[#FF0000]

What is Yellow Socialism?

Yellow socialism has two meanings. It is primarily a system of government devised by Pierre Biétry in 1904, that offers the working classes a contrasting alternative to "red socialism" (Marxism).[1] It was prominent in the early twentieth century prior to World War I, competing with Marxism for the minds of the workers. After this point, this movement became absorbed into fascism, and the previously developed Austrian national socialism which from 1920 developed into Nazism.

From wikipedia.

It isn't necessarily fascism, though.

[Lt. Ferret]

socialism with more focus on syndicalism and trade unionism within an existing capitalist structure than overthrowing it. that can happen eventually but its not the only goal in existence.

[Lt. Ferret]

well fascism is definitely linked to syndicalism and especially national syndicalists.

[Che a chara]

Marxist-Leninst, which i'm sure would also include Guevarism :)

[Zeus the Moose]

I just said Marxist but I really don't know tbh. I think my views are actually more in line with trotskyist groups.

I thought you were kind of a left-communist?



As for my answers, I picked "Marxist," "Leninist," "Trotskyist," "21st century socialist," and "not listed above." Really I'm one of those annoying people in the CPGB/neo-Kautskyan orbit, though my politics were rather Trotskyist until a couple of years ago.

[The Red Next Door]

Marxist Leninist.

[Ele'ill]

Please specify- Green-Anarcho-Genderqueer-trans/species-solidaritist (those that were birthed from wolves and reside in the first frost)

[#FF0000]

I thought you were kind of a left-communist?



As for my answers, I picked "Marxist," "Leninist," "Trotskyist," "21st century socialist," and "not listed above." Really I'm one of those annoying people in the CPGB/neo-Kautskyan orbit, though my politics were rather Trotskyist until a couple of years ago.

I like a lot of what left-communists say but I disagree with most of them on imperialism and things like that.

I've been having trouble figuring out exactly what I believe ever since I broke with anarchism.

[Sosa]

I like a lot of what left-communists say but I disagree with most of them on imperialism and things like that.

I've been having trouble figuring out exactly what I believe ever since I broke with anarchism.

Just curious...what made you break with anarchism?

[ComradeMan]

Just curious...what made you break with anarchism?

TAT!!!! :lol::lol:

No, seriously- I used to be more sympathetic to anarchism too, but I got fed up with anarchists- too many issues, too many isms all the time. Factions for every prefix you can imagine, and sometimes a very unrealistic world-view in my opinion. I still retain a lot of their ideas, but wouldn't define myself as an anarchist- sorry.

[Garret]

Marxist, Leninist, "Stalinist", Guevarist and Castroist.

Just call it Marxism-Leninism.

[L.A.P.]

I just said Marxist but I really don't know tbh. I think my views are actually more in line with trotskyist groups.

You broke my heart, I always thought you were a Marxist-Leninist.

[Rotfront]

I am a Revolutionary Marxist/Trotskyist.

[Ele'ill]

TAT!!!! :lol::lol:

Didn't all that happen before you started posting here?


No, seriously- I used to be more sympathetic to anarchism too, but I got fed up with anarchists- too many issues, too many isms all the time. Factions for every prefix you can imagine, and sometimes a very unrealistic world-view in my opinion. I still retain a lot of their ideas, but wouldn't define myself as an anarchist- sorry.

You mean more sympathetic as in just simply hating them?

[Red Commissar]

Where is Forkliftist? I demand justice!

[ComradeMan]

Didn't all that happen before you started posting here? You mean more sympathetic as in just simply hating them?

1) No- it happened a long time ago in a distant galaxy and there were a lot of issues and I don't want to drag them up again.

2) I don't hate anyone really. I don't hate people because they have ideas I disagree with, I hate bad things that people do- and if they keep doing them I might begin to hate them too-- if you see what I mean. But to say I hate "anarchists" would be wrong- I don't hate you.

[Ele'ill]

1) No- it happened a long time ago in a distant galaxy and there were a lot of issues and I don't want to drag them up again.

2) I don't hate anyone really. I don't hate people because they have ideas I disagree with, I hate bad things that people do- and if they keep doing them I might begin to hate them too-- if you see what I mean. But to say I hate "anarchists" would be wrong- I don't hate you.

From the post it sounded like you were already at this point-
and if they keep doing them I might begin to hate them too--

[revolution inaction]

TAT!!!! :lol::lol:

No, seriously- I used to be more sympathetic to anarchism too, but I got fed up with anarchists- too many issues, too many isms all the time. Factions for every prefix you can imagine, and sometimes a very unrealistic world-view in my opinion. I still retain a lot of their ideas, but wouldn't define myself as an anarchist- sorry.

you don't have to like or agree with every one who calls them selfs an an anarchist to be one.

[Nolan]

Half of these aren't even real tendencies and you left a few that are represented on this forum out.

Marxist-Leninist, and I didn't know whether to put Leninist or Hoxhaist so I flipped a coin and Leninist won. Hoxhaism only exists in contrast to Maoism anyhow.

[ComradeMan]

Half of these aren't even real tendencies and you left a few that are represented on this forum out.

Marxist-Leninist, and I didn't know whether to put Leninist or Hoxhaist so I flipped a coin and Leninist won. Hoxhaism only exists in contrast to Maoism anyhow.

These tendencies were listed at Wikipedia, click down- I said it wasn't formal or too serious- there are only 20 poll options.... duh!!!

This is so typical isn't it- someone has an idea and does something in which they disclaim what I've already stated and then others come with criticism, but didn't actually do anything themselves.... :thumbup1:

flipped a coin - do you base your politics on being the Dice Man?

[Ele'ill]

This is so typical isn't it- someone has an idea and does something in which they disclaim what I've already stated and then others come with criticism, but didn't actually do anything themselves.... :thumbup1:

flipped a coin - do you base your politics on being the Dice Man?


Sort of like another recent situation. :rolleyes:

[revolution inaction]

Half of these aren't even real tendencies and you left a few that are represented on this forum out.

Marxist-Leninist, and I didn't know whether to put Leninist or Hoxhaist so I flipped a coin and Leninist won. Hoxhaism only exists in contrast to Maoism anyhow.

the poll lets you pick as many options as you want

[Tomhet]

I selected 'Marxist, Leninist', 'Anarchist' 'Left communist' as I can see merits to all three..

[Ele'ill]

How is this poll comparing to the other tendency poll

[ComradeMan]

How is this poll comparing to the other tendency poll

I don't know- OI-ers cannot post so they cannot view the poll- you can only view if you vote. :crying:

The OP appears to be drunk too.
:lol:

[Ele'ill]

I don't know- OI-ers cannot post so they cannot view the poll- you can only view if you vote. :crying:

The OP appears to be drunk too.
:lol:

I know this. I never kept up with the polls and obviously don't feel like searching and posting for them myself but I know of a couple people who watch and remember the polls frequently. It was a question asked to quite a broad audience.

I'm actually stoned right now and feel quite 'up'.

[PoliticalNightmare]

socialism with more focus on syndicalism and trade unionism within an existing capitalist structure than overthrowing it. that can happen eventually but its not the only goal in existence.

With respect to your ideology then, how would you distinguish yourself from that of anarcho-syndicalism? The fact that anarcho-syndicalists have the plan of immediately overthrowing the existing capitalist structure?

[Lt. Ferret]

i believe in the state.

[Steve_j]

Why is it that i am siting here thinking "FFS Anarchists, for once in your life please vote!"

[Ele'ill]

i believe in the state.


Why?

[Property Is Robbery]

you should have put Marxist, Leninist, Stalinist together under one and then had a split between Hoxhaist and Maoist because you forgot Anarchist which is too important to leave out.
But how many Anarchist are there on here who aren't syndicalist/communist or at least left anarchist?

[Lt. Ferret]

Why?


becasue i believe no matter what system is in place that a monopoly of violence is in play, otherwise you have competing violence.

just think if revleft had no mods! ;) it'd be horrendous! people posting all willy nilly, porno and song lyrics everywhere.

[#FF0000]

Just curious...what made you break with anarchism?

What anarchists propose is a state that they just don't want to call a state.

[Summerspeaker]

I selected the two anarchist options along with please specify. I'll add queer anarchism and technocracy.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Eigene)

[Nuvem]

"Other". I don't fit neatly into any tendency. If I wanted to really be pretentious I would describe myself as a "Non-Marxist independent anti-Anarchist anti-Technocrat anti-Primitivist anti-Stalinist statist democratic socialist". But "Independent Socialist" comes out much more easily. Due to my isolation from any particular tendency (and I LIKE it that way), I usually just associate with whatever comes closest- Marxist-Leninists (notice non-Marxist, not anti. It's the statist bit that does it), and of course multi-Tendency organizations like the SPUSA.

Also: Holy SHIT, Lt. Ferret said something above that I actually agree with!

[Widerstand]

What anarchists propose is a state that they just don't want to call a state.

nothin wrong with that

[#FF0000]

nothin wrong with that

I suppose not but it's inconsistent.

And that's a running theme with anarchism. Anarchists are either inconsistent or useless.

[Ele'ill]

No, you are.

[#FF0000]

No, you are.

sdkjfnsdkjfnsjkafna

[Widerstand]

I suppose not but it's inconsistent.

And that's a running theme with anarchism. Anarchists are either inconsistent or useless.

No it's not. Most Anarchist literature is first and foremost a critique of hierarchy, power and authority. That Anarchists fail(ed) to follow their own critique when it comes to organizing doesn't discredit the critique.

[Ele'ill]

I like where this thread is going- Chaos!!!!1

[scarletghoul]

hey this gyu copied my polll !

ban him.

[#FF0000]

No it's not. Most Anarchist literature is first and foremost a critique of hierarchy, power and authority. That Anarchists fail(ed) to follow their own critique when it comes to organizing doesn't discredit the critique.

I like the critique.

[Magón]

What anarchists propose is a state that they just don't want to call a state.

Unless as Anarchists we see no borders for states, even if there is one drawn as some imaginary line on a map or whatnot. And State's revolve around having borders, and Anarchists just want to go wherever they please, without having to deal with border guards or whatever. :D

[Ele'ill]

It's because we like Fast Cars Danger Fire and Knives

[Widerstand]

I like the critique.

then you like anarchism. it's all settled. :thumbup1:

[Nuvem]

then you like anarchism. it's all settled. :thumbup1:

If we lived solely in a world of theory.

[scarletghoul]

Unless as Anarchists we see no borders for states, even if there is one drawn as some imaginary line on a map or whatnot. And State's revolve around having borders, and Anarchists just want to go wherever they please, without having to deal with border guards or whatever. :D
so if uussr claimed the world as itrs territrory with no bordersx it would be anarchist right

[#FF0000]

then you like anarchism. it's all settled. :thumbup1:

Nope I just think it's always a good thing to examine power structures and hierarchies that exist overtly and covertly. I still agree with the idea of a worker's state.

[Ele'ill]

If it claimed the whole world was everybody's and then did some cool stuff with FIRE

[scarletghoul]

If it claimed the whole world was everybody's and then did some cool stuff with FIRE
they did

[svenne]

Well, i answered three tendencies:

Marxist - since Marx, basically, rules. Or, rather: i've read several of his works and find that my thoughts of the world is seen through a marxist lense.
Luxemburgist - Because her thoughts made me a marxist when i really began to learn about stuff rather than "ah shit this is cool".
Anarcho-syndicalist - Since my organisational belonging at the moment is that of an anarcho-syndicalist group, here in Sweden.

I'm pretty much missing operaismo/autonomist, which also rules.

[Widerstand]

If we lived solely in a world of theory.

please not... from what I've read about (post-)operaist theory it makes no fucking sense at all, yet in practice it has produced such wondrous beauties as the autonomist movement <3

[Ele'ill]

they did


Then it's anarchist- :confused: I don't see what the issue is :confused:

[scarletghoul]

please not... from what I've read about (post-)operaist theory it makes no fucking sense at all, yet in practice it has produced such wondrous beauties as the autonomist movement <3
beauty alone dfoes not procduce a rtevolution "!! wtiouthut brutal penetration into objectiver realityu the most beautiful phallus isuseless

[Ele'ill]

http://images0.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/3776513/Im-not-an-anarchist-anymore-they-cant-organize-it-isnt-even-possible.jpg?imageSize=Large&generatorName=Privilege-Denying-Dude

[Magón]

so if uussr claimed the world as itrs territrory with no bordersx it would be anarchist right

No, because we're talking about Anarchists who don't believe in a State. Not Communists who believe there must first be a State, then no State.

[Widerstand]

beauty alone dfoes not procduce a rtevolution "!! wtiouthut brutal penetration into objectiver realityu the most beautiful phallus isuseless

pretty autonomists are pro-pene

[Lt. Ferret]

looks like scarlet was drinking the people's vodka.:thumbup1:

[Widerstand]

looks like scarlet was drinking the people's vodka.:thumbup1:

I drank various Havana Club mixes all night.

GLORY TO CUBA

[Lt. Ferret]

i have bourbon in my freezer, i will probably take it out and drink it tonight while i watch something so classy that you plebians would never think of it.


like Step Brothers.

[Bud Struggle]

I drank various Havana Club mixes all night.

GLORY TO CUBA

Sombody gave me a Cuban cigar a couple of week ago. I may smoke it on Thanksgiving.

GLORY TO CUBA

[scarletghoul]

whats a plebian ?? ist hat like a classy versoin of a pleb

[Lt. Ferret]

Yes.

[ComradeMan]

you don't have to like or agree with every one who calls them selfs an an anarchist to be one.

I know, I know- and let's make it clear- I don't have a problem with anarchists, I have read my copy of Malatesta so many times I can't remember. I think all of the tendencies have their valid points but none are 100% if you like.

The problem with anarchism in my opinion, and I know it's an old cliché, is I just don't think it's workable unless humankind has some major leap in consciousness. I think people will always have a naturally "tribal" or "clannish" nature to some extent- even if you dissolved all borders sooner or later new ones would arise.

I personally believe that areas should be administered by the people of the area, that's my idea of self-determination if you like, but it's just how you draw the lines that is the problem. :confused:

I go round and round in circles with this one- especially when considering indigenous peoples too.

[Bud Struggle]

I think what I am is an Anarchist.

But not one of those Commie ones--with their millions of rules and all of that. I'm just the kind of a guy that likes to do whatever he wants to do. The political or economic systems are just tools to be used. I currently "use" Capitalism because it suits my purposes. If Feudalism was out and about, I'd be a Count!

If Communism wandered along I'm sure I could make that useful to me.

[ComradeMan]

I think what I am is an Anarchist.

But not one of those Commie ones--with their millions of rules and all of that. I'm just the kind of a guy that likes to do whatever he wants to do. The political or economic systems are just tools to be used. I currently "use" Capitalism because it suits my purposes. If Feudalism was out and about, I'd be a Count!

If Communism wandered along I'm sure I could make that useful to me.

Anarcho-individualist-oppurtunism?

a.k.a. machiavellian mercenary a.k.a. soldier of fortune

Well done Bud, we have yet another anarcho-tendency!!!!!

[milk]

I think what I am is an Anarchist.

But not one of those Commie ones--with their millions of rules and all of that. I'm just the kind of a guy that likes to do whatever he wants to do. The political or economic systems are just tools to be used. I currently "use" Capitalism because it suits my purposes. If Feudalism was out and about, I'd be a Count!

If Communism wandered along I'm sure I could make that useful to me.

You observe no rules (formal/informal) whatsoever? Your own experience transcends the objective material conditions you find yourself in?

Going by the above, you could seem like someone of the individualist libertarian right.

[#FF0000]

he's talkin about the worst sort of anarchy.

the anarchy of power

yeah i thought of that myself.

[Bud Struggle]

You observe no rules (formal/informal) whatsoever? Your own experience transcends the objective material conditions you find yourself in? I observe plenty of rules. I stop at stop signs and pay my taxes--because there will be consequences if I don't and I rather not pay those particular prices. But the reason I stop is that it suits my purposes to stop (because I don't want to get killed) not because I have any particular love of the system that imposes those rules.

Further we live in a Capitalist system--if you follow the rules of Capitalism you can become rather well off and comfortable--why not follow those rules and get a Bentley and a big house? If I was in Soviet Russia--why not join the Communist Party and become a Commissar and get a dacha on the Black Sea?


Going by the above, you could seem like someone of the individualist libertarian right. Maybe, But I also believe those kinds of opportunities should be universal--so there may be a leftist tinge to it.

I'm not sure.

[milk]

So, you've contradicted yourself, then. First you say you're an anarchist, albeit of an individualist sort, and then you clearly say you conform to the current system, will fully participate in the rules of the state, and indeed would conform fully to any social system you found yourself in. You're confused.

[Bud Struggle]

So, you've contradicted yourself, then. First you say you're an anarchist, albeit of an individualist sort, and then you clearly say you conform to the current system, will fully participate in the rules of the state, and indeed would conform fully to any social system you found yourself in. You're confused.

Maybe, but I don't think so. What I WANT to do is make the best life possible for myself under whatever conditions that are available. So that's what I do. I don't want to drive through a stop sign--I certainly take advice from the stop sign, but the decision is my own.

Being an Anachist doesn't mean you have to go out and kill yourself at the first intesection you come to. (Though there are some here that would like to see that exact thing happen to me. :):D)

[milk]

Maybe, but I don't think so. What I WANT to do is make the best life possible for myself under whatever conditions that are available. So that's what I do. I don't want to drive through a stop sign--I certainly take advice from the stop sign, but the decision is my own.

So do I. And I am not an anarchist. Perhaps you aren't, either.


Being an Anachist doesn't mean you have to go out and kill yourself at the first intesection you come to.

I know it doesn't.

[Bud Struggle]

So do I. And I am not an anarchist. Perhaps you aren't, either.

Perhaps. Do you have a better title? :) (Let me guess--Piece of Shit! :D )

[Edit] I DO believe in giving good value for whatever payment I receive. I have no intention to just TAKE. I want my service to be of use, good use. In fact if you Communists don't execute me in the first five seconds after the Revolution I'd make my self so invaluable to Communism that you'll never be able to get rid of me. :)

[revolution inaction]

What anarchists propose is a state that they just don't want to call a state.

no, its what some people call a state, but as we define a state it is not one, so we are not proposing something at odds with anarchist theory.
I think that definitions of the state used by maxists etc don't make sense.
I don't really care if you think what we propose is a state, we're not here to please you.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

My ideology is best described as anarcho-communist technocratic transhumanist singularitarianism, with a dash of syndicalism. I also find the left communists have some sensible things to say.

[#FF0000]

I don't really care if you think what we propose is a state, we're not here to please you.

oh well okay but it's sort of inconsistent is all.

but man I can go on and on about what i don't like about anarchists. man.

[ComradeMan]

oh well okay but it's sort of inconsistent is all.

but man I can go on and on about what i don't like about anarchists. man.

Anarchists or anarchism? Or both.... ?

[#FF0000]

Both.

[revolution inaction]

oh well okay but it's sort of inconsistent is all.

but man I can go on and on about what i don't like about anarchists. man.

but you haven't shown any reason why it is inconsistent, you just say it is without any explanation.

[ComradeMan]

Both.

:scared:

hate is a strong word.

Why?

[Great1917Revolution]

Luxemburgist.

[Meridian]

Technocrat - www.eoslife.eu
And even if you have no interest in technocracy you can use that site as a weather forecast; I've found it to be correct almost more than half the time.

[ComradeMan]

Surprised at Trotskyism being so low at 15.46%
Surprised at Maoism being so low at 9.28%

[Ele'ill]

And even if you have no interest in technocracy you can use that site as a weather forecast; I've found it to be correct almost more than half the time.

You mean planning industrial standards around technologies that don't exist yet?

[Bud Struggle]

Surprised at Trotskyism being so low at 15.46%
Surprised at Maoism being so low at 9.28%


They make a lot of noise for their size though. :D

[ComradeMan]

They make a lot of noise for their size though. :D

Actually Bud- that was exactly what I was thinking.... believe me! I would have thought the numbers were higher, just goes to show what perceptions can do---- it's all existential!!! :lol:

[Revolution starts with U]

Being an anarchist also doesn't mean you just do whatever you want to do, either :mad:

[Ele'ill]

Yeah I mean, this poll obviously polled everyone...

[Widerstand]

Yeah I mean, this poll obviously polled everyone...

I'm missing operaismo or Autonomist Marxism. Situationist for all privileged art students would also be nice :/

[ComradeMan]

Yeah I mean, this poll obviously polled everyone...

Like most polls "poll" everyone.... :rolleyes:

It's a sample- and it's not finished yet.

It would be interesting to have some RevLeft demographics though. I'm also curious to know how many registered to regular users there are too,

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

You mean planning industrial standards around technologies that don't exist yet?

Er, such as?

[anticap]

Voted "other" so that I could view the poll results.

[StalinFanboy]

I put anarchist-communist, left communist, and other

the other would be because i'm really into some of the insurrectionary communist shit like tiqqun/invisibible committee.

[scarletghoul]

Maoism's what's happenin in the world right now. We don't need a lot of members on this forum to make our presence felt, the relevance and awesomeness of our theory + practice is enough :cool:

If I wanna learn about Trotskyism or Left-Communism, I'll make a thread in Learning. If I wanna learn about Maoism, I'll check the news..

[Widerstand]

If I wanna learn about Maoism, I'll check the news..

Do you live in China a "couple" of years ago? If I check the news all I see is capitalism.

[#FF0000]

Maoism's what's happenin in the world right now. We don't need a lot of members on this forum to make our presence felt, the relevance and awesomeness of our theory + practice is enough :cool:

If I wanna learn about Trotskyism or Left-Communism, I'll make a thread in Learning. If I wanna learn about Maoism, I'll check the news..

and that's sort of dumb because maoism isn't so much an ideology as it is a bunch of slogans.

[Bud Struggle]

and that's sort of dumb because maoism isn't so much an ideology as it is a bunch of slogans.

Which is probably Communism is in the state it's in around the world.

[red cat]

and that's sort of dumb because maoism isn't so much an ideology as it is a bunch of slogans.

The usual allegations again, I see. :lol:

[Thirsty Crow]

The tendencies to which my opinions correspond, by order of relevance:

1) Left Communism

2) Council Communism

3) Anarcho-Syndicalism

Oh, btw., Marxism is not a tendency.

[ComradeMan]

The tendencies to which my opinions correspond, by order of relevance:

1) Left Communism

2) Council Communism

3) Anarcho-Syndicalism

Oh, btw., Marxism is not a tendency.

Well a person can be a communist and not a marxist. There is of course the "International Marxist Tendency" (Troskyist). The of course the Open Marxism Tendency.

Implicitly every political tendency entails an ideology whether or not it is propounded as an explicit system of thought
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideology

In terms of RevLeft- there might be people here who are not marxists- and would regard it as a tendency within the terms of the left. ;)


http://libcom.org/library/libertarian-marxist-tendency-map
http://libcom.org/files/images/library/Tendency_Map.jpg

[revolution inaction]

I voted anarchist communism and council communism.

I'm surprised that anarchism hasn't got more, and that left communism is so high.


Maoism's what's happenin in the world right now. We don't need a lot of members on this forum to make our presence felt, the relevance and awesomeness of our theory + practice is enough :cool:

If I wanna learn about Trotskyism or Left-Communism, I'll make a thread in Learning. If I wanna learn about Maoism, I'll check the news..

That would explain a lot...

[Future Manifesto]

and that's sort of dumb because maoism isn't so much an ideology as it is a bunch of slogans.

You insidious political dwarf! you have glaringly revealed your colours as a member of the capitalist class, and should burn in a sea of righteous socialist fire!!!

seriously, Maoism is a valid political thought order--don't arouse traitorous tendencies just because you belong to one!

[ComradeMan]

You insidious political dwarf! you have glaringly revealed your colours as a member of the capitalist class, and should burn in a sea of righteous socialist fire!!!

seriously, Maoism is a valid political thought order--don't arouse traitorous tendencies just because you belong to one!


insidious political dwarf

:lol:

What tendency were the Oompa Loompas?

You can only really be a traitor if you betray that to which you are part. So a non-Maoist attacking Maoism is not really a traitor is it.... Adi?

[Thirsty Crow]

Well a person can be a communist and not a marxist.
What would that mean, exactly?
What kind of concrete differences would arise from one person being a Marxist communist and another being non-Marxist communist? :confused:

[ComradeMan]

What would that mean, exactly?
What kind of concrete differences would arise from one person being a Marxist communist and another being non-Marxist communist? :confused:

Well, primarily anarcho-communism is non-Marxist. Christian-communism is not marxist. Some might argue that pre/proto-communism, pre-dating Marx was of course non-Marxist too.

Antonio Gramsci also veered more towards left communism in a sense. Although a Marxist in name he did reject a lot of stuff "orthodox" marxists held. Gramsci rejected many ideas connected to materialism and objectivity.

This of course raises the question for perhaps another poll, between orthodox and non-orthodox, doctrinaire and non-doctrinaire etc.

[#FF0000]

I should just call myself a left-com and a raanista to put the icing on this troll cake.

[Thirsty Crow]

Well, primarily anarcho-communism is non-Marxist. Christian-communism is not marxist. Some might argue that pre/proto-communism, pre-dating Marx was of course non-Marxist too.

Antonio Gramsci also veered more towards left communism in a sense. Although a Marxist in name he did reject a lot of stuff "orthodox" marxists held. Gramsci rejected many ideas connected to materialism and objectivity.

This of course raises the question for perhaps another poll, between orthodox and non-orthodox, doctrinaire and non-doctrinaire etc.
Uummm,. Left Communists are also Marxists, I'm fairly sure :unsure:
What always bugged me was that it seems to me that Anarchists basically uphold Marx's analysis of capitalism as a mode of production, so the line between Marxism and Anarchism gets blurred a bit.

Religion based non-Marxist communism I get.

But it all comes down to, IMO, the highly problematic definition of "Marxism".

[revolution inaction]

Uummm,. Left Communists are also Marxists, I'm fairly sure :unsure:
What always bugged me was that it seems to me that Anarchists basically uphold Marx's analysis of capitalism as a mode of production, so the line between Marxism and Anarchism gets blurred a bit.

Religion based non-Marxist communism I get.

But it all comes down to, IMO, the highly problematic definition of "Marxism".

I know some left communists do not consider themselves to be marxists.

Anarchists tend to agree with marx's analysis of capitalism, i don't see how that would make us marxist?

[Thirsty Crow]

Anarchists tend to agree with marx's analysis of capitalism, i don't see how that would make us marxist?
Well, I do not consider Marxism a revolutionary working class tendency, but a mode of analysis of economic and social phenomena, which possesses more or less clear methodological principles.

That being said, I did not say or even imply that anarchists who uphold Marx's analysis are Marxists. I meant what i wrote in that post - boundaries tend to get blurred sometimes.

[danyboy27]

i am an unproductive ultra-leftist who actually believe in communism.

My group is responsable for many problem such has; trotsky, anyo0ne who criticized Mao, Che, Castro, Stalin, Lenin, Hoxia.

In other words, we are useless leftist who criticize every time and dont care about communism.

i am a left communist.

[Havet]

Anarchist without adjectives!

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/8318/anarchismwoutadjectives.png

[ComradeMan]

Uummm,. Left Communists are also Marxists, I'm fairly sure :unsure:
What always bugged me was that it seems to me that Anarchists basically uphold Marx's analysis of capitalism as a mode of production, so the line between Marxism and Anarchism gets blurred a bit.

Religion based non-Marxist communism I get.

But it all comes down to, IMO, the highly problematic definition of "Marxism".

Gramsci did criticise a lot of marxism's tenets however and some said he would have been thrown out of the party had he not been imprisoned by Mussolini.

However, let's remember- these are tendencies, they are not religious dogmas- saying your an anarchist and you still agree with marxists is not like saying your a hindu-muslim.... :lol:

[Nolan]

You're not up to date with the latest reactionary tripe. Leftist tendencies are religions.

[Bud Struggle]

You're not up to date with the latest reactionary tripe. Leftist tendencies are religions.

I'm not on your case here--but (some of) you guys believe in the Revolution like Christians believe in the Second comming of Jesus.

Jesus will come on his own--but no revolution will come it it isn't worked for.

[Ele'ill]

lol

[Thirsty Crow]

I'm not on your case here--but (some of) you guys believe in the Revolution like Christians believe in the Second comming of Jesus.

Jesus will come on his own--but no revolution will come it it isn't worked for.

Who the hell are ypu talking about?
I think you're being misguided by the rhetoric of inevitability.

[Bud Struggle]

Who the hell are ypu talking about?

Faith.


I think you're being misguided by the rhetoric of inevitability. I don't see anything inevitable about Communism.

[Ele'ill]

I have faith that I have good genetics and won't die of cancer. Does this mean I am the same as a religious person?

[ComradeMan]

I have faith that I have good genetics and won't die of cancer. Does this mean I am the same as a religious person?

Your confusing religion and faith, spirtuality and belief in some else are not the same as religious dogmatism. I think that was what the original comment was pointing at.

[Lobotomy]

For now I identify as non-doctrinal. I can relate to libertarian socialism more than ML but I try to keep an open mind.

[NKVD]

I'm officially non-doctrinaire but for all practical purposes Marxist-Leninist (or Stalinist, if you prefer).

[Ele'ill]

Your confusing religion and faith, spirtuality and belief in some else are not the same as religious dogmatism. I think that was what the original comment was pointing at.

I am not confusing anything-

I don't think there's anyone on this board that is waiting around for the revolution in the manner that was described.

[ComradeMan]

I am not confusing anything-

I don't think there's anyone on this board that is waiting around for the revolution in the manner that was described.

I don't think Bud actually meant that but it was more in response to this comment further back:


You're not up to date with the latest reactionary tripe. Leftist tendencies are religions.
__________________________________________________ _____________

Which was in itself in response to a comment I made about overlapping ideas in leftist politics seeing as we are not talking about religious dogma.

[robbo203]

Good to see "anarcho communist" is up there with "Marxist" as the front runners. The problem is that, as an opponent of leninism and all its derivatives, I regard myself as both a marxist and an anarchocommunist. So which should I chose?

[RedStarOverChina]

Marxist. Yay, we're winning!

[ComradeMan]

Good to see "anarcho communist" is up there with "Marxist" as the front runners. The problem is that, as an opponent of leninism and all its derivatives, I regard myself as both a marxist and an anarchocommunist. So which should I chose?

You can multi-vote on this one- I set it up like that for exactly this reason.;)

[ComradeMan]

Just putting this poll in the first page so new members might be able to contribute before it expires.

[ComradeMan]

Come on--- get these votes in, last day!!!:lol:

[hatzel]

...and why exactly is a beharism not an option? Hmm...I did my best to vote anyway, though, voting for things which pointed towards it :thumbup:

EDIT:

BANG!!!

http://i53.tinypic.com/mw5v8h.jpg

There's my badass tendency! What a flag :drool:

[Cane Nero]

I don´t follow any kind of ideology or tendency. I follow my life my way.
I believe in total freedom of the individual to make choices and face consequences.

But yes, I have influences from both anarchism and communism.

[ComradeMan]

I don´t follow any kind of ideology or tendency. I follow my life my way.
I believe in total freedom of the individual to make choices and face consequences.

But yes, I have influences from both anarchism and communism.

Well a tendency is not a dogma, or at least shouldn't be.

[Spawn of Stalin]

Poll is rigged, no option for Marxist-Leninist.

[ComradeMan]

Poll is rigged, no option for Marxist-Leninist.

Yes there is, mutli-vote, for Marxism and Leninism..... :thumbup:

[Widerstand]

Well a tendency is not a dogma, or at least shouldn't be.

that's ignoring material reality where tendency is dogma

[ComradeMan]

that's ignoring material reality where tendency is dogma

Well sometimes things should be ignored.

[Cane Nero]

Well sometimes things should be ignored.

In anyway, I wont label myself. :D
And now the end is near
And so I face the final curtain
My friend, I'll say it clear
I'll state my case of which I'm certain


I've lived a life that's full
I traveled each and every highway
And more, much more than this
I did it my way


Regrets, I've had a few
But then again, too few to mention
I did what I had to do
And saw it through without exemption

I've planned each charted course
Each careful step along the byway
And more, much more than this
I did it my way


Yes there were times, I'm sure you knew
When I bit off more than I could chew
But through it all when there was doubt
I ate it up and spit it out

I faced it all and I stood tall
And did it my way


I've loved, I've laughed and cried
I've had my fill, my share of losing
And now as tears subside
I find it all so amusing


To think I did all that
And may I say, not in a shy way
Oh no, oh no, not me
I did it my way


For what is a man, what has he got?
If not himself, than he has naugth
To say the things he truly feels
And not the words of one who kneels


The record shows, I took the blows
And did it my way

[ComradeMan]

In anyway, I wont label myself. :D

Next time I'll put a poll with "atendencialista" on it!!! ;)

Remember in the OP I put "nearest" to tendency, I don't expect people to ever be 100% one thing or another.

[Impulse97]

If it were up to me Stalinist wouldn't even be up there, but that's just me. I picked Trot and Lux but, Marx is up there too.:hammersickle::trotski::hammersickle:

[Spawn of Stalin]

I think omitting Stalinist would definitely constitute a rigged poll.

I didn't know we had socdems here, I take it they are restricted.

[Cane Nero]

Remember in the OP I put "nearest" to tendency, I don't expect people to ever be 100% one thing or another.

That's good.

My problem with ideologies, and to label myself, is that certain followers want to impose their ideas on the will of others. And I do not see it only in Stalinist or Maoist, I also see this in some anarchists.

[Bud Struggle]

That's good.

My problem with ideologies, and to label myself, is that certain followers want to impose their ideas on the will of others. And I do not see it only in Stalinist or Maoist, I also see this in some anarchists.

In the "Good Old Days of Anarchy" in Spain the CNT was quite Puritanical in it's requirements for the citizens in the area it controled.

[RGacky3]

Give me some examples Bud.

[Bud Struggle]

Give me some examples Bud.

The book is full of them.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512Q2P9D5VL._SL500_AA300_.jpg


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Blood-Spain-History-Spanish-Civil/dp/0712660143

[RGacky3]

I'm not gonna buy a book, I've read books on anarchist spain, and I'd like to hear some examples from you.

[Bud Struggle]

I'm not gonna buy a book, I've read books on anarchist spain, and I'd like to hear some examples from you.

I'd only quote the book. There are plenty of books on either side of the issue. This book is a pretty fair ORAL HISTORY of the people that were ACTUALLY there. You might find it interesting--see if you could find it in a library.

[RGacky3]

quote the book, I'm interested in what you consider puritanical requirements, I'm also interested to see if your putting them in context.

[ComradeMan]

quote the book, I'm interested in what you consider puritanical requirements, I'm also interested to see if your putting them in context.

The CNT were fairly draconian in their discipline, not from that book, but here's an article.

To Remember Spain: The Anarchist and Syndicalist Revolution of 1936 (http://www.social-ecology.org/1994/01/to-remember-spain-the-anarchist-and-syndicalist-revolution-of-1936/)

By Murray Bookchin (http://www.social-ecology.org/author/murray-bookchin/) January 1, 1994

Extract: The young workers of the late sixties and early seventies tend to borrow their values from relatively affluent middle-class youth, who no longer hypostasize the work ethic, puritanical mores, hierarchical obedience, and material security, but rather free time for self-development, sexual liberation in the broadest sense of the term, creative or stimulating work as distinguished from mindless labor, and an almost libidinal disdain for all authority. In Spain it is significant that privileged university students, who tended to play a reactionary role in the thirties, are among the most radical elements of society in the sixties and seventies. Together with young workers and intellectuals in all fields, they are beginning to accept in varying degrees the personalistic and utopistic goals that make the puritanical and overly institutionalized anarchosyndicalism of the CNT-FAI seem anachronistic.

[#FF0000]

In what way was the CNT puritanical? They were all about free love and stuff like that.

[Bud Struggle]

In what way was the CNT puritanical? They were all about free love and stuff like that.

Like HELL they were. They had a very strict moral and ESPECIALLY SEXUAL code. (And I'm in an airport in Atanta on a computer with a dying battery--so no proof of anything will be forcomming for a while.):rolleyes:

[#FF0000]

Really! I knew they had posters up all calling for prostitutes to stop being prostitutes. That's about all I know on that.

[ComradeMan]

In what way was the CNT puritanical? They were all about free love and stuff like that.

No, that was The Beatles.... :lol:

[revolution inaction]

The CNT were fairly draconian in their discipline, not from that book, but here's an article.

To Remember Spain: The Anarchist and Syndicalist Revolution of 1936 (http://www.social-ecology.org/1994/01/to-remember-spain-the-anarchist-and-syndicalist-revolution-of-1936/)

By Murray Bookchin (http://www.social-ecology.org/author/murray-bookchin/) January 1, 1994

Extract: The young workers of the late sixties and early seventies tend to borrow their values from relatively affluent middle-class youth, who no longer hypostasize the work ethic, puritanical mores, hierarchical obedience, and material security, but rather free time for self-development, sexual liberation in the broadest sense of the term, creative or stimulating work as distinguished from mindless labor, and an almost libidinal disdain for all authority. In Spain it is significant that privileged university students, who tended to play a reactionary role in the thirties, are among the most radical elements of society in the sixties and seventies. Together with young workers and intellectuals in all fields, they are beginning to accept in varying degrees the personalistic and utopistic goals that make the puritanical and overly institutionalized anarchosyndicalism of the CNT-FAI seem anachronistic.

thats not evidence that they where puritanical, its someone saying they where, not even giving an example of how

[ComradeMan]

thats not evidence that they where puritanical, its someone saying they where, not even giving an example of how

Define puritanical.

Try and read the article too... it might help.

[#FF0000]

Define puritanical.

Try and read the article too... it might help.

Well, can you just tell us in what ways they were puritanical? Because I'm not seeing it and it's contrary to everything I know about the anarchists in Spain.

[ComradeMan]

Well, can you just tell us in what ways they were puritanical? Because I'm not seeing it and it's contrary to everything I know about the anarchists in Spain.

I believe they were anti-drugs and drinking and into the whole ideological purity thing along with iron revolutionary discipline.

[Impulse97]

I think omitting Stalinist would definitely constitute a rigged poll.


If by 'rigged' you mean helping to stop something that is counter to all that is Communism, then yes, yes it is.:hammersickle::trotski::hammersickle:

[#FF0000]

I believe they were anti-drugs and drinking and into the whole ideological purity thing along with iron revolutionary discipline.

Oh well yeah I imagine they were. At the same time I am pretty sure that everyone in the world would say drinking and doing drugs while carrying out a military campaign against fascists is a good idea. :mellow: