17th of November 2010

[Delenda Carthago]

Yesterday was a big fuckin day for the revolutionary forces in Greece.
I m copying the text of Occupied London,even though i disagree in some things(mostly on the numbers!)



http://www.occupiedlondon.org/blog/2010/11/18/420-the-imf-is-not-an-image-on-your-tv-screen-a-brief-report-from-tonights-demonstration-in-athens/
(Dedicated to our comrade (http://www.occupiedlondon.org/blog/2010/11/16/416-american-activist-seriously-injured-in-the-head-by-delta-motorcycle-police/) who was unable to join us today, still recovering in hospital. See you in the streets!)

http://www.occupiedlondon.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/21.jpg (http://www.occupiedlondon.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/21.jpg)
Riot police march in front of a wall-painted slogan reading “The troika [meaning the IMF, EU and ECB] is not an image on your TV screens; responses are given in the streets”. Athens, 17/11/2010.

It will take us a little while to comprehend today’s events in Athens – and surely, this is not the best moment to do so – writing these lines after a full twelve hours in the streets. But still, some first thoughts are of order. What happened today was important. First, today’s demonstration had a very peculiar feel to it. The largest Polytechnic uprising commemorative demonstration in more than a decade (30,000 according to the police, around double in real numbers). A very tense feeling in the air. Even before the demo set off, clashes with the youth branch of PASOK – the social-democrat party in power – who had the nerve to try join the demonstration. The police on the sides of the march, with their hands on the trigger of the tear-gas guns the entire time. People waiting for something to happen on both ends: our end, and on that of the police.
And something did happen. The most intense and populous demonstration Athens has seen since May 5th. The police charging ahead whenever they could, whenever they would isolate people off the main block of the demonstration. People fighting back, during the demo and then, late in the night, in Exarcheia. But that peculiar feeling hasn’t faded: we are still waiting something will happen… Tonight was the last day of a long summer. Tomorrow is the first day of a strange winter – hopefully, a beautiful winter.
http://www.occupiedlondon.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/15821891.jpg (http://www.occupiedlondon.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/15821891.jpg)



#419 | More than 50,000 march today in Athens; more than thirty detentions so far; pictures from the demo (http://www.occupiedlondon.org/blog/2010/11/17/419-more-than-50000-march-today-in-athens-more-than-thirty-detentions-so-far-pictures-from-the-demo/) Wednesday, November 17, 2010 Tonight saw the largest Polytechnic uprising demonstration in Athens in at least a decade, with reports of 50-60,000 taking to the streets. We have unconfirmed reports of a demonstration being injured by tear gas in the face. At least 25-30 people have been detained so far.
Full report to follow later tonight.
http://www.occupiedlondon.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/1582189.jpg (http://www.occupiedlondon.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/1582189.jpg)
http://www.occupiedlondon.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/9318940.jpg (http://www.occupiedlondon.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/9318940.jpg)
http://www.occupiedlondon.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/1582193.jpg (http://www.occupiedlondon.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/1582193.jpg)




The photos are mostly from outside of the US embassy.

More photos from Athens here
http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=1225795

Also,both in Athens and Thesaloniki,PASP(PASOK youth) member got beat the fuck up for having the nerve to support the post modern dictatorship we live in and still coming to this demostration.In the last link,they are the ones with the green stickers on their chest.They hired goons and hooligans to help them,but that didnt do them any good either.

They also got beat up in Thesaloniki,when they tryed to deposit a coronal in honor of the fighters of the Polytechnic School Uprise in 1973.

videos from that in
http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=1225277


other photos and videos in
http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=1225565


Smaller demos took place in many citys and towns of the country,banners where put up in some others and in Corfu island,after the demo there was an squat by some people.

We have photos from

Patras(Greece's thrid biggest city)
http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=1225783

and

Serres
http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=1225662

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Fuck PASOK, good on the comrades who showed them what's what.

In Solidarity with your workers and students, we are feeling it as well.

[Delenda Carthago]

I wanna dedicate this picture to all the KKE groupies we have in here...

when was the last time you saw the guard of a revolutionary force(marxist,anarchist,whatever) go on the street with its back turned on the cops?

http://athens.indymedia.org/local/webcast/uploads/full-31172.jpg?ref=nf

Dont get it twisted.They are not there to protect their revolutionary block from the cops.They are there to make sure that no "agent provocateur" will get into their lines!:lol::lol:


Go KKE,go!

[F9]

Good job comrades!Keep up the fight.
Unfortunately down here we have one of the usual hypocritical gatherings, partys youths gathered to yell to America and cia, and then all ended in cafes...Of course the place was filled with flags of cyprus and greece:rolleyes: "communist" akel youth had more flags than the nationalists...and since they got in power they decided to bring greek flags with them just to earn some more votings, something they were denying doing in the past cause of multinationality of cyprus and unity with turkish cypriots, now that there votes dont count this is forgotten and all of their excuses and "ideals" have been trashed..
But we are keeping the fight on with an autonome gathering this saturday.Will update on that in time;)

[Sasha]

Also,both in Athens and Thesaloniki,PASP(PASOK youth) member got beat the fuck up for having the nerve to support the post modern dictatorship we live in and still coming to this demostration.In the last link,they are the ones with the green stickers on their chest.They hired goons and hooligans to help them,but that didnt do them any good either.

They also got beat up in Thesaloniki,when they tryed to deposit a coronal in honor of the fighters of the Polytechnic School Uprise in 1973.

videos from that in
http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=1225277



wow, thats pretty hardcore, i can only imagine the look of total schock on their faces if we did that with the youth wing of the social dems... then again they dont even bother to come to demonstrations anymore, its mostly socialist party (ex-maoist now populists) and greens who show their faces on demonstrations.

[bricolage]

I m copying the text of Occupied London,even though i disagree in some things(mostly on the numbers!)
What do you think the numbers were?

[Delenda Carthago]

What do you think the numbers were?
I surely think it was way more than 50.000

I mean,the crowd didnt fit in the photos.And we talking very thick blocks.Just cause the cops only said 30.000:lol::lol: doesnt mean we have to limit to the double just to say that we are not exaggerating.Only in front of the first block,there was a good 3-4 thousand of people walkin on their own...

[Delenda Carthago]

http://www.occupiedlondon.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/33.jpg

a comrade wounds when a flashbank exploted on his feet on te demo.

[F9]

We had our gathering this saturday, unfortunately nothing big, ~50 people, we just sit and talk really for the situations and people from the anarchist union who organized where giving papers.
Sad results especially compared with greece, at least we did something!

[Coggeh]

I wanna dedicate this picture to all the KKE groupies we have in here...

when was the last time you saw the guard of a revolutionary force(marxist,anarchist,whatever) go on the street with its back turned on the cops?

http://athens.indymedia.org/local/webcast/uploads/full-31172.jpg?ref=nf

Dont get it twisted.They are not there to protect their revolutionary block from the cops.They are there to make sure that no "agent provocateur" will get into their lines!:lol::lol:


Go KKE,go!

Agent provacteur or not have you ever sat down and asked what they do ?

They employ actions that distract the wider movement and society from the real ideas and causes to protest and distort it into petty violence "thuggery, criminality, youth gangs"

Why use the same tactics the government and bourgeoisie use to take support from the workers movement?

Now not defending the KKE its quite juvenile what they're doing, but their needs to be a consensus action among the radical left not to support these actions not to take part in such actions not for any pacifist reasons but because the left must be an alternative for ordinary working class people, individual terrorism damages such link with the wider community, we must of course fight against police provocativeness, against police brutality which we have seen here in Ireland not 2 weeks ago but not at the same time resorting to violent tactics for its sake.

[StalinFanboy]

Agent provacteur or not have you ever sat down and asked what they do ?

They employ actions that distract the wider movement and society from the real ideas and causes to protest and distort it into petty violence "thuggery, criminality, youth gangs"

Why use the same tactics the government and bourgeoisie use to take support from the workers movement?

Now not defending the KKE its quite juvenile what they're doing, but their needs to be a consensus action among the radical left not to support these actions not to take part in such actions not for any pacifist reasons but because the left must be an alternative for ordinary working class people, individual terrorism damages such link with the wider community, we must of course fight against police provocativeness, against police brutality which we have seen here in Ireland not 2 weeks ago but not at the same time resorting to violent tactics for its sake.


What about when it's regular working class people with no real political affiliation that are rioting and looting and being crazy?

[Coggeh]

What about when it's regular working class people with no real political affiliation that are rioting and looting and being crazy?

This does happen, and as an organised movement to have to play to the anger of such people and bring them in the the radical organised working class movement. Sporadic violent actions at protests such a number of things but the key thing they show is a lack of political education, class consciousness and the lack of an influence of working class alternative.

[Sasha]

yes because taking a stroll, excuse me i mean marching valiantly offcourse, from one square to another or participating in parlementairy elections ever got the working class closer to liberation?

talkin about " Why use the same tactics the government and bourgeoisie use to take support from the workers movement?" :rolleyes:

[StalinFanboy]

This does happen, and as an organised movement to have to play to the anger of such people and bring them in the the radical organised working class movement. Sporadic violent actions at protests such a number of things but the key thing they show is a lack of political education, class consciousness and the lack of an influence of working class alternative.

I usually find that when people talk about "class consciousness" they are usually talking about the sort of mentality in the working class to accept Party rule.

I think riots are cool, and, more importantly, I'm not going to argue against them or say that we should try to prevent them because they are often organic and spontaneous responses by the working class to its conditions and the attacks upon the class by the ruling class.

I also don't think there is any sort of dichotomy between organization and rioting, as working class people throughout history have formed organizations and participated in insurrections without the help of "revolutionaries."

And I'm not saying that everything the working class does is progressive or potentially helpful for the communist project.

[Coggeh]

yes because taking a stroll, excuse me i mean marching valiantly offcourse, from one square to another or participating in parlementairy elections ever got the working class closer to liberation?

talkin about " Why use the same tactics the government and bourgeoisie use to take support from the workers movement?" :rolleyes:

Right..........

[The Fighting_Crusnik]

Hopefully, these marches will result in change in favor of the people. And hopefully, they'll be able to accomplish what they want with as little blood-shed as possible. And finally, hopefully if they are successful, they won't let corruption or oligarchy ruin them...

[Coggeh]

I usually find that when people talk about "class consciousness" they are usually talking about the sort of mentality in the working class to accept Party rule.
What party rule? I'm not saying join the KKE or anyone else but plainly it should be clear to any self respecting leftist that the actions of individual terrorism are nothing other than counter productive.



I think riots are cool, and, more importantly, I'm not going to argue against them or say that we should try to prevent them because they are often organic and spontaneous responses by the working class to its conditions and the attacks upon the class by the ruling class.
Your defending violent actions based on their ..coolness?

Yes they are, exactly my point; uninformed, sporadic responses that bring no real progression to the working class movement in general. We have to build on the anger of working class people.



I also don't think there is any sort of dichotomy between organization and rioting, as working class people throughout history have formed organizations and participated in insurrections without the help of "revolutionaries."
Action without ideas is meaningless and visa versa.



And I'm not saying that everything the working class does is progressive or potentially helpful for the communist project.
Then why actively support it ?

[FSL]

I think riots are cool
I think your name suits you.

[Delenda Carthago]

Agent provacteur or not have you ever sat down and asked what they do ?

They employ actions that distract the wider movement and society from the real ideas and causes to protest and distort it into petty violence "thuggery, criminality, youth gangs"

Why use the same tactics the government and bourgeoisie use to take support from the workers movement?

Now not defending the KKE its quite juvenile what they're doing, but their needs to be a consensus action among the radical left not to support these actions not to take part in such actions not for any pacifist reasons but because the left must be an alternative for ordinary working class people, individual terrorism damages such link with the wider community, we must of course fight against police provocativeness, against police brutality which we have seen here in Ireland not 2 weeks ago but not at the same time resorting to violent tactics for its sake.


Dude, I m not gonna have an argument about riots with someone who doesnt know the situation here.I have spent way too much energy and time in my life for it sicne 2003.I dunno whats the conditions in your country,but keep your analyses(which isnt even an analyse,you just have certain ideological rules which you apply in every situation)for your society.The greek society knows better what they are going to do.You do what you do,with the elections and joining the Central-left parties,and we do what we do.And whoever has the best politics,will e the one who will lead the resistance.

[StalinFanboy]

What party rule? I'm not saying join the KKE or anyone else but plainly it should be clear to any self respecting leftist that the actions of individual terrorism are nothing other than counter productive. You can replace "Party rule" with the rule of some other group of ideologues or whatever. The point is, when people talking about consciousness, it's usually because they want workers to follow specific program or ideology rather than take control of their own lives.



Your defending violent actions based on their ..coolness? Yes. I think it's cool or "good" or whatever when working class people respond to attacks on their lives. I like it when people fuck up cops because fuck the function of the police. I like it when people loot because free shit means that their money can go further.

I also like rioting because it can potentially turn into something even more awesome, like an occupation. Or it can be in defense of an occupation.


Yes they are, exactly my point; uninformed, sporadic responses that bring no real progression to the working class movement in general. We have to build on the anger of working class people.

Look, either you support rioting in situations like these that are actual working class responses (as opposed to race riots, etc.), or you are actively trying to repress organic manifestations of working class rage.



Action without ideas is meaningless and visa versa. I never claimed otherwise, bud. This is basically what I said. It is you who is claiming some sort of dichotomy between organization and rioting, as if only one or the other can happen.



Then why actively support it ?
Because I think rioting in certain cases is? I said that because I don't think that racism in the working class is progressive, even though it's coming from working class people (insert any other form of bourgeois bigotry in the place of racism).

[StalinFanboy]

I think your name suits you.
Thanks. I chose it for a reason.

[Property Is Robbery]

Motorcycle Bloc! :D
http://athens.indymedia.org/local/webcast/uploads/papsqz0asa.jpg

[Delenda Carthago]

Motorcycle Bloc! :D
http://athens.indymedia.org/local/webcast/uploads/papsqz0asa.jpg
these are the PASOK guys who got the beat down in Athens.

[Ravachol]

these are the PASOK guys who got the beat down in Athens.

Haha, oh wow. The social democrat youth wear motorcycle helmets and use clubs in Greece? :blink:

Dude over here they look like this

http://www.pvda-alphenaandenrijn.nl/alphen/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/P1000791_100510_01.JPG

[F9]

Haha, oh wow. The social democrat youth wear motorcycle helmets and use clubs in Greece? :blink:

Dude over here they look like this

http://www.pvda-alphenaandenrijn.nl/alphen/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/P1000791_100510_01.JPG

This is what happened to them though:thumbup1:

oUH8c3MDVUY

[Ravachol]

This is what happened to them though:thumbup1:

oUH8c3MDVUY

Haha what is it with you people and sticks :p

Also, i'm pretty surprised at how profilic the use of motorcycle helmets and clubs is in Greece (and Italy for that matter).

Over here in the Netherlands covering your face with a keffiyeh or wearing a balaclava is sometimes reason enough to get arrested or singled out by plainsclothes cops. Never mind what happens when you wear a motorcycle helmet and bring a fucking club.

In Rotterdam, during the last 1st of May demo here, some Turkish and Kurdish communists were arrested for supposedly having flagpoles that were too thick, the entire demo was halted and dispersed because they wouldn't turn in their flagpoles.

http://indymedia.nl/img/2010/05/66971.jpg
http://indymedia.nl/img/2010/05/66968.jpg

As you can see these are clearly not useable as clubs.

So what's the deal with Greece?

[Sasha]

Haha what is it with you people and sticks :p

Also, i'm pretty surprised at how profilic the use of motorcycle helmets and clubs is in Greece (and Italy for that matter).

Over here in the Netherlands covering your face with a keffiyeh or wearing a balaclava is sometimes reason enough to get arrested or singled out by plainsclothes cops. Never mind what happens when you wear a motorcycle helmet and bring a fucking club.

In Rotterdam, during the last 1st of May demo here, some Turkish and Kurdish communists were arrested for supposedly having flagpoles that were too thick, the entire demo was halted and dispersed because they wouldn't turn in their flagpoles.

So what's the deal with Greece?

i assume that is self explainetory, if this lot is the social dem lot who are actualy in the goverment:


Motorcycle Bloc! :D
http://athens.indymedia.org/local/webcast/uploads/papsqz0asa.jpg

you see old bill strolling over and say "alright lads, hand them over"?

if we had the numbers and the attitude like the greeks we could pull off the same. in fact from time to time we do.
in germany i have been in blocks with similair "flags", in amsterdam with militant re-squating actions we have been dressed up like this as well

[F9]

yeah its numbers basically up in greece.it is against the law and if they could they would have taken them away from them, and if someone gets arrested with a helmet can face some pretty serious charges as its illegal to hide your face!But as there is a big number and they can fight back its easier to carry them.I imagine your blocks arent that big to fight with cops and have the ability to carry them, so yeah there is the reason simple as a number;)

[Jazzhands]

fuck yeah, make total destroy.:D but what exactly has been achieved? Unless the working class or a non-government takes control of government buildings or occupies an area of the city or something that shows they are gaining control, nothing new happening here. But it's good to see there's still shit going down in Greece. We've reached steps one and two-agitate and organize-at rudimentary levels. We're about halfway through education. The Greek people know exactly what global capitalism does to working people, but they aren't yet educated on the proper way to take control.

[Delenda Carthago]

Haha what is it with you people and sticks :p

Also, i'm pretty surprised at how profilic the use of motorcycle helmets and clubs is in Greece (and Italy for that matter).

Over here in the Netherlands covering your face with a keffiyeh or wearing a balaclava is sometimes reason enough to get arrested or singled out by plainsclothes cops. Never mind what happens when you wear a motorcycle helmet and bring a fucking club.

In Rotterdam, during the last 1st of May demo here, some Turkish and Kurdish communists were arrested for supposedly having flagpoles that were too thick, the entire demo was halted and dispersed because they wouldn't turn in their flagpoles.

http://indymedia.nl/img/2010/05/66971.jpg
http://indymedia.nl/img/2010/05/66968.jpg

As you can see these are clearly not useable as clubs.

So what's the deal with Greece?
Dude,in Italy they used to go on riots with machine guns back in the 70s.They dont give a fuck about a stick or whatever. Its the numbers,as they have told you.

take something from Italy.Piazza Navona,students protest 2-3 years ago.Casa Pound fascists had the nerve to show up.The communist youth of PCI retaliated.This is what happened.

http://aldodice26x1.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/piazza_navona__prima_e_dopo.jpg

CkKlZTgqSqY

[IndependentCitizen]

http://www.occupiedlondon.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/33.jpg

a comrade wounds when a flashbank exploted on his feet on te demo.

Holy shit, I hope our comrade has a speedy recovery, that's brutal. It truly inspires me when I see the Greek protests - setting a high example for world wide revolutionaries!

[Delenda Carthago]

He's fine. He s been through worse. Just a month in the bed and he ll be back in the struggle.