China's Economic Reform

[John "Eh" MacDonald]

How many of you agree with China's Economic reform. I was talking to a Chinese student online today about western myths on the PRC and she happened to bring up the "Chinese reform and open up." Knowing very little about Chinese history I had her explain it and I read the Wikipedia article on it.

I believe it was a good idea because as Karl Marx explained, a socialist county cannot survive on its own. China's economy was not doing well and and the living standards were low. China is now a superpower but still has socialist tendency's. I don't think you can be a leftist and not care about the well being of the population as a whole even if it means using capitalism as a footstool.

Care to prove me wrong? (I hope this doesn't come across as cocky.)

P.S. apologies to anyone who reads my threads as I am not a very good writer.

[Tablo]

Socialist tendencies? Workers do not maintain any democratic control of the economy and are getting laid-off left and right. Sounds totally socialist to me. :rolleyes:

[WeAreReborn]

Chinese factories are horrible and exploitative. I don't see any worker's representation at all. Socialism>Great power.

[Paulappaul]

a socialist county cannot survive on its own

That's not a good reason for abandoning Marxism, Marx said that a "Socialist" country can't survive on its own because an International revolution must happen before it can ever Socialist.

Furthermore, it's not a good reason for abandoning things like workers-self management (i.e. democracy in government and in the workplace by the workers).

[John "Eh" MacDonald]

Socialist tendencies? Workers do not maintain any democratic control of the economy and are getting laid-off left and right. Sounds totally socialist to me. :rolleyes:

I honestly did not have any idea workers don't have a say in China. I only started reading about it yesterday. The student that I was talking to told me she considered it socialist and I assumed that's what she meant.

But that wasn't my point, the point was that china's economy was suffering and so were the people. Can you honestly say that you would want workers to die while they wait for the global scale revolution rather than have a common living standard?

[Paulappaul]

But that wasn't my point, the point was that china's economy was suffering and so were the people. Can you honestly say that you would want workers to die while they wait for the global scale revolution rather than have a common living standard?

Naturally no, but the tactics chosen by Chinese ruling class doesn't reflect the internal desire of workers to be self governing and in control of their lives.

[Adil3tr]

I oppose industrial capitalism in China. The flag will be changed in three years and it'll be a openly capitalist dictatorship instead of a pretend socialist one.

[Adil3tr]

Wait... Do you not know how bad shit is in China?

[John "Eh" MacDonald]

Wait... Do you not know how bad shit is in China?

I know very little. I'm just going by the conversation I had with the student. But i think I'm starting to change my mind on it.

[S.Artesian]

Superpower? With half the population still tied to rural production, with an average income of around $800/year?

I don't think so.

[Adil3tr]

A capitalist superpower can have way more than half it's population in poverty. Don't forget about the migrants though

[S.Artesian]

Well, none of the advanced capitalist countries have half the population tied to rural production [not poverty, but agricultural production]. In the US it's what? about 2%.

Before the USSR collapsed it was about 33%-- which put the truth to that "superpower" story.

Not that I don't marvel at China. I do. I marvel that it hasn't exploded/imploded yet with strikes, mine seizures, occupations of government buildings spreading faster than its high speed rail trains.