The problem with fascists

[ken6346]

I'm sure I'm like the rest of you and believe that fascism is an ideology best dismantled and remembered only as a lesson to prevent it from ever becoming "big" again. However, I see a problem with the active persecution of and violence towards fascism. As a person new to anarcho-communist ideas, and coming from a libertarian point of view, surely the intolerance of intolerance is a bit of a contradiction in and of itself, no? Wouldn't education, at least of children and other younger members of society, be more beneficial to mankind on the whole, rather than simply brutally destroying these mentally whacked but living and human members of society?

It's almost fair to say that intolerance is a mental condition, right? - it is a condition which results in anti-social behaviour and damage both physical and mental to other members of society, which could classify it as a mental illness. I believe that intolerance, as well as fascism as an ideology, just as with milder forms of capitalism, ought to be treated as such: they simply have a lack of understanding as a result of a mental barrier, which could be combated through therapy rather than violent destruction.

What do you think? And how does my view compare to the general consensus of other socialists and anarchists?

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

Tolerating intolerance is a bigger contradiction than intolerance of intolerance. None of us are out to "brutally destroy" individuals, but we are out to "brutally destroy" their ideas. However, if their ideas lead them to take up arms against us, to deliberately not use self-defense would mean suicide.

Intolerance and fascist views are not just mental problems of individuals, but social problems as well; so we have to look at the material causes that foster them and how we can change society to get rid of those causes. That, I think, will be more effective in combating fascism than both therapy and physical violence. For example, many white supremacist gangs recruit around the US prison system which is highly racially segregated and encourages racism. By fighting to abolish the prison system, we would not just be getting rid of some of the institutional racism of the federal government, but also removing the basis for a lot of neo-nazi organizing. By building a socialist, mass workers' party, we could fill the void that is being filled by the proto-fascist Tea Party and "Libertarian" movements.

[Tablo]

Tolerating intolerance is a bigger contradiction than intolerance of intolerance. None of us are out to "brutally destroy" individuals, but we are out to "brutally destroy" their ideas. However, if their ideas lead them to take up arms against us, to deliberately not use self-defense would mean suicide.

Intolerance and fascist views are not just mental problems of individuals, but social problems as well; so we have to look at the material causes that foster them and how we can change society to get rid of those causes. That, I think, will be more effective in combating fascism than both therapy and physical violence. For example, many white supremacist gangs recruit around the US prison system which is highly racially segregated and encourages racism. By fighting to abolish the prison system, we would not just be getting rid of some of the institutional racism of the federal government, but also removing the basis for a lot of neo-nazi organizing. By building a socialist, mass workers' party, we could fill the void that is being filled by the proto-fascist Tea Party and "Libertarian" movements.
Pretty much the perfect response. I agree completey and like that you properly identified the Tea party movement as being proto-fascist.

[freepalestine]

I'm sure I'm like the rest of you and believe that fascism is an ideology best dismantled and remembered only as a lesson to prevent it from ever becoming "big" again. However, I see a problem with the active persecution of and violence towards fascism. As a person new to anarcho-communist ideas, and coming from a libertarian point of view, surely the intolerance of intolerance is a bit of a contradiction in and of itself, no?
what the ..
if some fascist is beating up a person because they're a socialist etc,or because of their race. etc
what would anyone in that sitiuation do?
forget pacifism i guess

[ken6346]

Tolerating intolerance is a bigger contradiction than intolerance of intolerance.
Well, not really, it's a logical position to take which becomes pointless only when education. To be tolerant of one's intolerant views isn't really a contradiction at all, only a position which is difficult to maintain.


None of us are out to "brutally destroy" individuals, but we are out to "brutally destroy" their ideas. However, if their ideas lead them to take up arms against us, to deliberately not use self-defense would mean suicide.Fair enough, but I've heard of some very violent encounters between anarchists and Nazis or other fascists, where I can't say I thought either group was in the right: there's self-defense and then there's aggression, I tend to see the latter being utilised in confronting Nazis and other fascists.


Intolerance and fascist views are not just mental problems of individuals, but social problems as well; so we have to look at the material causes that foster them and how we can change society to get rid of those causes.Agreed completely, but I can't say I think that violence is the answer. Education of younger people is one of the most important things we can do I think; an environment of tolerance does not breed intolerance.


For example, many white supremacist gangs recruit around the US prison system which is highly racially segregated and encourages racism. By fighting to abolish the prison system, we would not just be getting rid of some of the institutional racism of the federal government, but also removing the basis for a lot of neo-nazi organizing. By building a socialist, mass workers' party, we could fill the void that is being filled by the proto-fascist Tea Party and "Libertarian" movements.Excellent, excellent ideas. I agree that active organisation and recruitment is a very important aspect of preparation for a social revolution. Education is useful, but there's more to be done than just talk to people.

Thanks for your post :) Also, I noticed you describe yourself as part of the CWI, and I've noticed that Trotskyism seems to cop a bit of slack here (please correct me if I'm wrong); do you know if there's any reason for that, and where the disagreement comes from?


edit:

what the ..
if some fascist is beating up a person because they're a socialist etc,or because of their race. etc
what would anyone in that sitiuation do?
forget pacifism i guess
But that isn't what happens. Just like some fascists attack anarchists because of their views alone, while they're simply being ordinary members of the public, there have been at least a few cases where I've heard of anarchists attacking fascists for their political views alone, far removed from any imminent demonstrations or the like. In any case, I do not condemn true self-defense and resistance that is as non-violent as is possible at the time (if you're being attacked, you have every right to disarm and put your attacker at bay, but to aggressively attack him in turn, I would say that you're not an awful lot better in terms of your physical agenda).