" As the Country Falls Apart, It's Time for Our Revolution"

[Salyut]

http://www.alternet.org/books/148796/as_the_country_falls_apart%2C_it%27s_time_for_our_ revolution/?page=entire

The really weird thing is that this guy doesn't seem to be anymore then a socio-democrat. Are revolutionary politics spreading or what the hell? :unsure:

I'm pretty sure the right is gonna have a field day with this.

[Kiev Communard]

Rather surprising. Is he a member of any "democratic socialist" organizations, or simply maverick blogger?

[Salyut]

Rather surprising. Is he a member of any "democratic socialist" organizations, or simply maverick blogger?

I suspect he may be a Democrat. Thats what makes it so very odd. :|

[RadioRaheem84]

The problem is that the world has moved so far to the right that social dems think of themselves as radicals now and thus may call for a reform revolt.

It's silly, but if you think about it the same is happening in Latin America, but at least it's helping the people.

[Salyut]

The problem is that the world has moved so far to the right that social dems think of themselves as radicals now and thus may call for a reform revolt.

It's silly, but if you think about it the same is happening in Latin America, but at least it's helping the people.

Yeah but Rall is actually calling for preparation for physical resistance. I have yet to hear Moore or other reformists do anything like that.

edit: Also this is a interesting counterpoint. (http://blogs.alternet.org/theghost/2010/09/07/left-wing-violence-what-would-you-do/)

[Salyut]

Weird, I thought I hit edit. Oh well...

Also this is a interesting counterpoint. (http://blogs.alternet.org/theghost/2010/09/07/left-wing-violence-what-would-you-do/)

My reason for abandoning the article before it was finished had much to do with the fact that even bringing up the topic of left wing violence is, in a sense, its own crossing of the Rubicon. As some commentators have noted in regard to the growing American/Israeli tensions with Iran, even introducing the idea of a military attack on that country into the discussion has an effect of legitimizing it as a policy option, even if the consensus reached is that a military strike would be a bad idea. For the same reasons, introducing the option of violence as a means to advance leftist causes risks legitimizing it as a course of action, even if the majority reject it out of hand. Once the idea has been introduced and allowed to germinate there may not be a way back.

[scarletghoul]

What I found interesting (and problematic) is the strong sense of determinism throughout this piece, like in the documents of the old Marxists back in the day when they thought capitalism was destined to fall to socialism by historical necessity... On the one hand it means this Rall person is quite left-wing, but on the other it gives it a preachy false-prophet feel and is unrealistic. Capitalism, particularly in the US, has so far been able to reinvent itself and survive many hard times

[Salyut]

What I found interesting (and problematic) is the strong sense of determinism throughout this piece, like in the documents of the old Marxists back in the day when they thought capitalism was destined to fall to socialism by historical necessity... On the one hand it means this Rall person is quite left-wing, but on the other it gives it a preachy false-prophet feel and is unrealistic. Capitalism, particularly in the US, has so far been able to reinvent itself and survive many hard times

I got the same vibe. Its just really weird hearing this sort of thing on Alternet.

[pierrotlefou]

It's strange to me that he wants to reach out to so many people but his book title is ignorant and alienating. there are lots of people who identify as americans who don't know any better that a book of that type would do good to reach to and never will because it gives off the elitist vibe that many working class americans hate and just ignore right out the gate. If people like that were serious they wouldn't alienate the people they are trying to get to revolt.

[RadioRaheem84]

Yeah but Rall is actually calling for preparation for physical resistance. I have yet to hear Moore or other reformists do anything like that.

edit: Also this is a interesting counterpoint. (http://blogs.alternet.org/theghost/2010/09/07/left-wing-violence-what-would-you-do/)

Yeah I know.

Social Democrats and Democratic Socialists are turning revolutionary.

That's kind of what I was trying to say. Politics have shifted so far to the right than Soc Dems (not Third Way-ers) and Democratic Socialists look like revolutionary Marxist Leninists.

[gorillafuck]

Social Democrats and Democratic Socialists are turning revolutionary.

That's kind of what I was trying to say. Politics have shifted so far to the right than Soc Dems (not Third Way-ers) and Democratic Socialists look like revolutionary Marxist Leninists.
"Democratic socialists" and social democrats aren't the same thing.

[RadioRaheem84]

I know zeekloid. My point is that reformist soc dems and participatory entry socialists are continually seen as revolutionaries by the press akin to MLs.

There was never a difference in soc dem reformists like Juan Bosche of Dominican Republic, Democratic Socialist Salvador Allende and Marxist Leninist Fidel Castro to the establishment.

[Rusty Shackleford]

i havent read it, but from the commentary im guessing it could be a good thing to radicalize liberals.

i just hope radicalized liberals will become marxists out-right and say "fuck social democracy"

[RadioRaheem84]

i havent read it, but from the commentary im guessing it could be a good thing to radicalize liberals.

i just hope radicalized liberals will become marxists out-right and say "fuck social democracy"
I doubt it, it would require them to stop being such elitist pricks.

[Rusty Shackleford]

I doubt it, it would require them to stop being such elitist pricks.
i take my last post back.


look at this shit for a quote i found.


Us: Hard-working, underpaid, put upon, thoughtful, freedom-loving, disenfranchised, ordinary people

Them: Reactionary, stupid, overpaid, greedy, shortsighted, exploitative, power-mad, abusive politicians and corporate executivesso simplistic, so i dont know.

my mind is full of fuck. that is ones basis for revolution? were thoughtful and they are stupid?


and this is gold.

screams of intelligence and thoughtful analysis.


It is by design that internal reformers like Mikhail Gorbachev and

Obama inevitably come too late to actually accomplish anything.

[ckaihatsu]

that is ones basis for revolution? were thoughtful and they are stupid?


Now if we could only get Jon Stewart to be our leader...!


x D