Why is there so many racists/anti semites/ nutjobs in Conspricacy forums??

[WORLD]

This is something I have noticed a lot of this worrying trend lately, and because of this development I have never joined these forums. Do not get me wrong because some of the threads regarding many a subject are interesting, but I get sickened when I start reading threads with the titles of:
'Why are Jews so rich, and a player for the NWO'.
This thread comes from a forum of a certian researcher who himself has been accussed of being anti-Jewish, but in his forum it tends to turn into a debate claiming how so and so are the most evil people on Earth. Some nutjobs tend to claim the Holocaust does not exist, but if the NWO is so bad to these nutjobs then there must be something right with it.
I never joined that forum because if I did, it would be like me saying that I agree with this vicious rhetoric.

[ComradeMan]

This is something I have noticed a lot of this worrying trend lately, and because of this development I have never joined these forums. Do not get me wrong because some of the threads regarding many a subject are interesting, but I get sickened when I start reading threads with the titles of:
'Why are Jews so rich, and a player for the NWO'.
This thread comes from a forum of a certian researcher who himself has been accussed of being anti-Jewish, but in his forum it tends to turn into a debate claiming how so and so are the most evil people on Earth. Some nutjobs tend to claim the Holocaust does not exist, but if the NWO is so bad to these nutjobs then there must be something right with it.
I never joined that forum because if I did, it would be like me saying that I agree with this vicious rhetoric.

There is a user group on RevLeft- Against Anti-Semitism, perhaps you could joing it and highlight this there too. :thumbup1:

What is this forum? Who are they? If they are Holocaust deniers then they can fuck off big time and deal with the legal consequences too.

Who is this? We need to know- name and shame to back up your claim!

As for the rest, the internet is like a giant wall in a giant train station toilet and just about anyone can write or draw anything on it... from graffiti to other stuff. Hence the wacko shit you find on internet. It gives people a platform if you like, and because they deludedly believe they are anonymous they show their true colours.

[Peace on Earth]

Because some people equate several wealthy and influntial jews with a Jewish conspiracy. It's sad because it makes questioning the government seem so outlandish and ridiculous. Don't pay them any mind.

[WORLD]

I am worried a nutjob who might be too encrossed in these forums might go out and end up killing someone of a certain race or religion, like they are doing in Russia for example.:(
The conspricarcy theorists to me seem to be a very right-wing sort of people and they know seem to claim all sorts, for example, Barack Obama is not a US born citizen because it true then the USA will not have a black president at all.
The Jews it seems to these people are the harbringers of everything bad in the world, but to say nasty things like the Holocaust never happened is sickening.:mad:

[ComradeMan]

I am worried a nutjob who might be too encrossed in these forums might go out and end up killing someone of a certain race or religion, like they are doing in Russia for example.:(
The conspricarcy theorists to me seem to be a very right-wing sort of people and they know seem to claim all sorts, for example, Barack Obama is not a US born citizen because it true then the USA will not have a black president at all.
The Jews it seems to these people are the harbringers of everything bad in the world, but to say nasty things like the Holocaust never happened is sickening.:mad:

What is this site? Page? Blog? :cool:

[WORLD]

I cannot post links or images because my post count is under 25. I will say that you need to go into a forum like the David Icke forum to see the anti semitic bile and also the anti Islam bile for yourself.
One nutjob, who happens to be a non white claims that Hitler was like Alexander the Great.:rolleyes:

[ComradeMan]

I cannot post links or images because my post count is under 25. I will say that you need to go into a forum like the David Icke forum to see the anti semitic bile and also the anti Islam bile for yourself.
One nutjob, who happens to be a non white claims that Hitler was like Alexander the Great.:rolleyes:

Aaaaaaaaah. :rolleyes:

Well, when your post count gets up post a link to the site in the Against Anti-Semitism group, or just keep an "eye" on them. Don't get involved!!!!

It's a sad fact that a wonderful thing like Internet with all the possibilities it offers for information exchange and global communication so often gets turned into a cesspit of hate and bigotry. But that's the world we live in I am afraid to say.

:thumbup1: For alerting us! Good work compagno!

[Robert]

a cesspit of hate

You wanna see some greatest hits from this forum?

The kindest and most welcoming forums I have ever seen have been monarchist and/or Catholic.

[ComradeMan]

You wanna see some greatest hits from this forum?

The kindest and most welcoming forums I have ever seen have been monarchist and/or Catholic.

Yeah, yeah....

We all love each other here really in our dysfunctional way.:crying:

WTF has monarchist forums? Really? What dicks if I may say so....

[Property Is Robbery]

It stems from the crazy Libertarian right, Alex Jones' fuckers (I used to be one of them)

Although never anti-Semitic

[L.A.P.]

You wanna see some greatest hits from this forum?

The kindest and most welcoming forums I have ever seen have been monarchist and/or Catholic.

We're all one big dysfunctional family.:)

[ComradeMan]

It stems from the crazy Libertarian right, Alex Jones' fuckers (I used to be one of them)

Although never anti-Semitic

Alex Jones? Could you go on....?

[Property Is Robbery]

Alex Jones? Could you go on....?
Well he's a homophobic christian moron. I have no proof he's anti-semitic but i know a lot of his followers are.

[Robert]

Well he's a homophobic christian moron.Like I was sayin' ....

:rolleyes:



Yeah, yeah....

It's the truth. Go on any Catholic forum and call them a bunch of morons and see what happens. Obviously you can't call them "fucking shitheads" because they don't allow that kind of language. But you'll be better received there than they are here.

[Revolution starts with U]

C'mon guys, everyone knows the Jews are a reptillian race of greedy money lovers who were there to greet the first neanderthal that walked out of a cave and offer him life insurance. At least that's what 4chan told me :rolleyes:

[ComradeMan]

Perhaps this is a US thing but could US members explain sometimes a bit more of who these people are and what they are about? I've never heard of this person, that's why I was asking.

As for 4chan... :laugh: well, what was I saying about toilet walls?

[Revolution starts with U]

Well, 4chan and the troll community is a different matter. But as for the alien jew overlords it's all in David Icke.
He always tries to realay that just because many Jews are involved it is not a jewish conspiracy, and that just as many non-jews are involved. But it just leaves the door open for people to forget about that based on their preconcieved bias'.

EDIT: This was not an affirmation of Icke's ludicrous theories. Just pointing it out.

[IcarusAngel]

Look into the Mises Institute. They've got a few holocaust deniers in addtion to quite a few AIDS denialists. A disgusting right-wing organization.

The kind of comments you see on Libertarian videos:

"Are you stupid? Jews intend to make whites a minority by 2050 (the latest estimate is 2042). Multiculturalism and such things are a cultural Marxist method to destroy the white race and western civilization. Take a look at the paper by Kevin MacDonald: Jewish Involvement in Shaping American Immigration Policy, 1881-1965: A Historical Review"

""Corporate friends?" They should say "JEWISH money masters", but nooooo that's antisemitic. It's TRUE but still antisemitic."

"
NIA (and this video) is just another fraud to distract from the real problem. Now go pass it around as truth morons and chase your tails duhhhh
Jewish domination is the ONLY problem in America. Everything else is a distraction.

"

"Nothing but a buch of jews pan handling stock n bonds. At one time Jewish begers was thought to be conservative. If the trading of stocks was thought to be wealth it's not trades. A squander method of selling junk bonds without trade. Junk is all you buy and USA has no trades. Nothing is you climb to the top. Democrat is where Jewish people thrive for the right. It's not USA as promotions said. Jewish advertisement for foreign people."

"Now I know that some will send me personal emails because they don't like to hear the truth about the jews because it confuses all their programming. To those posters: Don't take this the wrong way but I won't read your emails. I will print them out and then wipe my butt with your words."

From "Freedom to fascism" Comments..

[Nolan]

Where did you hear this? I doubt 9 out of 10 libertarians are antisemites like that.

[Amphictyonis]

Because capitalists/the bourgeoisie need to confuse people so they can't gain a proper understanding of capitalism. This is done via racism and conspiracy theories. The blame for world events is put on scapegoats shoulders be they minorities or sinister men in smokey rooms plotting and planning.

Capitalism, as a system, is truly going global and with it the need for a global regulatory body has arisen or some of the same laws in nations states. The nation state concept is dwindling not because of a communist NWO conspiracy but via capitalism/globalization.

[Bud Struggle]

Look into the Mises Institute.

Does anyone actually take those people seriously?

[Jazzratt]

Wait, you're seriously asking why conspiracy website might attract nutjobs? Have you not considered that buying into all that twaddle requires one to already have at least one screw loose.

[Robert]

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcarusAngel http://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1923326#post1923326)
Look into the Mises Institute.

By Bud Struggle: Does anyone actually take those people seriously? Yes, one person takes them seriously. And one only.:lol:

[Vampire Lobster]

What is this forum? Who are they? If they are Holocaust deniers then they can fuck off big time and deal with the legal consequences too.

Unfortunately, chances are they are not from a country with idiotic enough legislation to actually order "legal consequences" upon Holocaust deniers.

[Reznov]

Unfortunately, chances are they are not from a country with idiotic enough legislation to actually order "legal consequences" upon Holocaust deniers.

:thumbup: :laugh:

[Revolution starts with U]

Actually there's a thread going on right now on LvMI about holocaust denial. (Un)fortunately it's 2 people (one an established member tho) against the rest of the community. Even those loons don't deny the holocaust.

[synthesis]

the NWO is so bad to these nutjobs then there must be something right with it.

There is something right with it. Communism is a new world order.

As for the rest of your OP, the equation is pretty much Nationalism + Solipsism + a little extra crazy (or a lot) = these people.

[ComradeMan]

Unfortunately, chances are they are not from a country with idiotic enough legislation to actually order "legal consequences" upon Holocaust deniers.

Probably not.

On the second point- hmmm... it's easy to say if your country hasn't just happened to have gone through fascism or Nazism. Usually with holocaust deniers is only the tip of the ice-berg, it's a lie but it's an extremely pernicious and dangerous lie too.

[Vampire Lobster]

Probably not.

On the second point- hmmm... it's easy to say if your country hasn't just happened to have gone through fascism or Nazism. Usually with holocaust deniers is only the tip of the ice-berg, it's a lie but it's an extremely pernicious and dangerous lie too.

I'm fairly sure all countries have their own rather nasty shit in the past, even if it didn't happen to be about fascism or Nazism. But when people make utterly ridiculous claims about these not happening, actually throwing them to jail gives them a lot more credibility than they deserve. I prefer to just shout and laugh directly at their faces.

[ComradeMan]

I'm fairly sure all countries have their own rather nasty shit in the past, even if it didn't happen to be about fascism or Nazism. But when people make utterly ridiculous claims about these not happening, actually throwing them to jail gives them a lot more credibility than they deserve. I prefer to just shout and laugh directly at their faces.

There is of course the argument about freedom of speech. It's a difficult one. Nevertheless, freedom of speech does not mean hate speech or speech that could cause harm- the old "fire in a crowded theatre"...

On the other hand- why do people deny the holocaust in the first place? I think these laws serve on the basis of it's a disingenuous attempt to incite racial hatred and anti-semitism. If you take away the holocaust, the Nazis suddenly become more "palatable" to a lot of people-- sad, but true.

On your last point- I don't know where you are or your geopolitical situation, but you should remember that some places there are some quite nasty and sinister and powerful forces at work, it might not be so easy to just laugh directly at their faces.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

You wanna see some greatest hits from this forum?

The kindest and most welcoming forums I have ever seen have been monarchist and/or Catholic.

So fucking what? Monarchy and Catholicism are still fucking terrible ideas, no matter how polite their proponents are.

Typical style over substance bullshit.

[ComradeMan]

So fucking what? Monarchy and Catholicism are still fucking terrible ideas, no matter how polite their proponents are.

Typical style over substance bullshit.


What do pro-monarchist forums do? Who gets to be king anyway? Are their rival monarchies? Is there a pro-Roman Empire forum? Can I caesar power? :laugh:

NoXion- would you rather discuss "terrible" ideas in a constructive and relatively polite way or in a profane shouting match? Imagine if Marx had just wrote "Scheisskopfen-!!! Kapitalism sucks! --- get the point?:lol:

[Bud Struggle]

Wh Can I caesar power? :laugh:


Ouch! :blushing: :lol:

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

NoXion- would you rather discuss "terrible" ideas in a constructive and relatively polite way or in a profane shouting match? Imagine if Marx had just wrote "Scheisskopfen-!!! Kapitalism sucks! --- get the point?:lol:

If I remember rightly, Marx had no compunction over getting his verbal claws out when he felt it necessary. It's entirely possible to be both adversarial and right, you know.

People who focus on the way arguments are presented, rather than the actual argument itself, aren't interested in the truth. They just want everyone to "play nice".

Well, I'm not playing and there are times when it is appropriate to be "not nice". Like when some Liberturdian supports slavery or a Catholic apologist makes excuses for their child-raping clergy.

[ComradeMan]

If I remember rightly, Marx had no compunction over getting his verbal claws out when he felt it necessary. It's entirely possible to be both adversarial and right, you know.

People who focus on the way arguments are presented, rather than the actual argument itself, aren't interested in the truth. They just want everyone to "play nice".

Well, I'm not playing and there are times when it is appropriate to be "not nice". Like when some Liberturdian supports slavery or a Catholic apologist makes excuses for their child-raping clergy.

Marx' claws certainly did come out but I don't think his works are full of expletives on the lines of "fucktard" "retard" "punk ass *****" etc- some of the stuff that seems to creep in even here. :thumbdown:

There's a difference between sharp and cutting and being abusive.

The examples you give are indeed distasteful but if you believe you are right then the facts should be enough to demolish them...;)

Appeals to emotion are not logical...

http://oederl.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/mr-spock.jpg


I think El Che memorised this poem- It's not always easy though.

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools:
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!

[learningaboutheleft123]

This is something I have noticed a lot of this worrying trend lately, and because of this development I have never joined these forums. Do not get me wrong because some of the threads regarding many a subject are interesting, but I get sickened when I start reading threads with the titles of:
'Why are Jews so rich, and a player for the NWO'.
This thread comes from a forum of a certian researcher who himself has been accussed of being anti-Jewish, but in his forum it tends to turn into a debate claiming how so and so are the most evil people on Earth. Some nutjobs tend to claim the Holocaust does not exist, but if the NWO is so bad to these nutjobs then there must be something right with it.
I never joined that forum because if I did, it would be like me saying that I agree with this vicious rhetoric.

I get what you mean. How can someone literally deny the holocaust, of course it happened. What explains all the news reports that came from Auschwitz after the Red Army liberated the death camps, and don't say they were setup, coz that would be bullshit.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Marx' claws certainly did come out but I don't think his works are full of expletives on the lines of "fucktard" "retard" "punk ass *****" etc- some of the stuff that seems to creep in even here. :thumbdown:

There's a difference between sharp and cutting and being abusive.

I generally don't like it when people use "retard" or "*****", but at the same time I won't use their use of such words as an excuse to ignore the rest of their argument and whinge about how meeeeeeaaan they're being to me.


The examples you give are indeed distasteful but if you believe you are right then the facts should be enough to demolish them...;)

Appeals to emotion are not logical...

An insult or profanity is not an appeal to emotion. They are used to register disapproval, disgust, or for emphasis. Logic is good, but that is no reason to be completely emotionless in delivery.


I think El Che memorised this poem- It's not always easy though.

Appeal to poetry? Doesn't work on unrepentant philistines like me.

[ComradeMan]

An insult or profanity is not an appeal to emotion. They are used to register disapproval, disgust, or for emphasis. Logic is good, but that is no reason to be completely emotionless in delivery..

http://www.apmid.org/wp-content/spockvulcan.jpg


Yes it is. Disapproval and disgust are "emotional" responses. Otherwise you will be accused of being subjective and revealing a confirmational bias in your arguments. Of course it does depend on the context- but I think it's better to be detached in certain analyses otherwise your run the risk of a host of fallacies.


Appeal to poetry? Doesn't work on unrepentant philistines like me.

Philistinism is bourgeois and reactionary. Philistinism is the anti-philosophy of those who do not wish to think.:lol:


Wasn't an appeal to poetry. Just a sideline of a preferred poem of a famour revolutionary. ;)

[Dimentio]

This is something I have noticed a lot of this worrying trend lately, and because of this development I have never joined these forums. Do not get me wrong because some of the threads regarding many a subject are interesting, but I get sickened when I start reading threads with the titles of:
'Why are Jews so rich, and a player for the NWO'.
This thread comes from a forum of a certian researcher who himself has been accussed of being anti-Jewish, but in his forum it tends to turn into a debate claiming how so and so are the most evil people on Earth. Some nutjobs tend to claim the Holocaust does not exist, but if the NWO is so bad to these nutjobs then there must be something right with it.
I never joined that forum because if I did, it would be like me saying that I agree with this vicious rhetoric.

This is not anything new. Reactionaries want to produce an analysis on what is wrong with the world based on their understanding and sentiments. They oppose capitalism because it is eroding the old order, and they are also opposing socialism of the same reason, which means that they need to lump together capitalism and socialism - that is why you hear a lot of anti-communist rhetoric against capitalist entities like banks and corporations.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Yes it is. Disapproval and disgust are "emotional" responses.

A response is not necessarily an argument. It's only an appeal to motion if you use your opinion of the other person as a basis for your argument, ie there is a subtle but important difference between saying "Your arguments are wrong because you're a fuckhead" (which would be an ad hominem) and saying "Your arguments are wrong because XYZ. Also, you're a fuckhead"


Otherwise you will be accused of being subjective and revealing a confirmational bias in your arguments.

We're all biased. There is no such thing as someone who isn't biased.


Of course it does depend on the context- but I think it's better to be detached in certain analyses otherwise your run the risk of a host of fallacies.

The way to avoid fallacies is to make a good argument, not to watch your language.


Philistinism is bourgeois and reactionary. Philistinism is the anti-philosophy of those who do not wish to think.:lol:

If philistinism is bourgeois, then why do they expend so much effort into promoting the arts? Why haven't all the concert halls and art galleries knocked down and replaced with shopping centres? If philistinism is reactionary, why do racists focus so much on art and culture?

Philistinism is not so much anti-philosophy as it is "philosophy without the crap", ie without the self-indulgent navel-gazing that characterises such things as romanticism and post-modernism.

[Revolution starts with U]

Vulcan's are not as cool as the Federation

[ComradeMan]

A response is not necessarily an argument. It's only an appeal to motion if you use your opinion of the other person as a basis for your argument, ie there is a subtle but important difference between saying "Your arguments are wrong because you're a fuckhead" (which would be an ad hominem) and saying "Your arguments are wrong because XYZ. Also, you're a fuckhead"

Hair splitting- but usually it isn't that way and the expletives come at the beginning.


We're all biased. There is no such thing as someone who isn't biased.

Yes but we can try our best not to be, that is the difference.


The way to avoid fallacies is to make a good argument, not to watch your language.

But watching language is part of avoiding fallacies !;)


If philistinism is bourgeois, then why do they expend so much effort into promoting the arts? Why haven't all the concert halls and art galleries knocked down and replaced with shopping centres? If philistinism is reactionary, why do racists focus so much on art and culture?

Who are "they"? Do they really spend so much effort into promoting the arts? Really? Aren't the arts constantly crying out for funding? Would it be easier to get a research grant for an arts project or for weapons development? Also which art and culture? By whom?

Second point is without logic.

If racists focus so much on art and culture then is art and culture racist?
It doesn't work like that.

Lots of people focus on art and culture- some of them may well be racists or not.


Philistinism is not so much anti-philosophy as it is "philosophy without the crap", ie without the self-indulgent navel-gazing that characterises such things as romanticism and post-modernism.

Philistinism is anti-progressive, anti- avante-garde and in an artistic sense reflects the same mentality that rejects and derides the new in favour of what "we all know and accept"- that is why I say it's reactionary. Hitler was a classic philistine.

[Targaryen]

A response is not necessarily an argument. It's only an appeal to motion if you use your opinion of the other person as a basis for your argument, ie there is a subtle but important difference between saying "Your arguments are wrong because you're a fuckhead" (which would be an ad hominem) and saying "Your arguments are wrong because XYZ. Also, you're a fuckhead"

If you allready proven your point, what dose the "Also, you're a fuckhead" serves for?




If philistinism is bourgeois, then why do they expend so much effort into promoting the arts? Why haven't all the concert halls and art galleries knocked down and replaced with shopping centres? If philistinism is reactionary, why do racists focus so much on art and culture?

Philistinism is not so much anti-philosophy as it is "philosophy without the crap", ie without the self-indulgent navel-gazing that characterises such things as romanticism and post-modernism.
Philosophy is not crap, is the basis of human understanding. Also art and culture are what defines a civilization. Are you saying culture and civilization "crap"and return to being cavemen? If you can't understand art culture and philosophy is OK but you should not try to pose as antiburgeoisie and expect a prize for having a limited understanding.

[Tomhet]

These twacked out nutjobs seem to be in some sort of stimulant induced psychosis all the time... They're quite naiive and obsess over coming up with bizzare fantasies..

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Hair splitting- but usually it isn't that way and the expletives come at the beginning.

You're the one who's splitting hairs. It doesn't matter whether the insults come first or the argument, as long as there is an argument at all is what really matters.


Yes but we can try our best not to be, that is the difference.

Overcoming bias doesn't mean I have to keep my opinions to myself.


But watching language is part of avoiding fallacies !;)

No it isn't, you haven't shown us why.


Who are "they"? Do they really spend so much effort into promoting the arts? Really? Aren't the arts constantly crying out for funding? Would it be easier to get a research grant for an arts project or for weapons development? Also which art and culture? By whom?

More effort goes into preserving and promoting stuff like the Mona Lisa as opposed to stuff like say, street art.


Second point is without logic.

How so?


If racists focus so much on art and culture then is art and culture racist?
It doesn't work like that.

No, I'm pointing out that the level of appreciation for art is independant of political views.


Philistinism is anti-progressive, anti- avante-garde and in an artistic sense reflects the same mentality that rejects and derides the new in favour of what "we all know and accept"- that is why I say it's reactionary. Hitler was a classic philistine.

I also take it to mean the kind of person who has little patience for the kind of crap that some arts types come out with in relation to their work, and just appreciates a given work for what it is as they understand it.


If you allready proven your point, what dose the "Also, you're a fuckhead" serves for?

It is an accurate assessment of my opinion of the other person.


Philosophy is not crap, is the basis of human understanding.

I said "philosophy without the crap" not "philosophy is crap".


Also art and culture are what defines a civilization. Are you saying culture and civilization "crap"and return to being cavemen?

No, I'm saying that artists can come out with a load of old twaddle and thus we shouldn't set too much from what they say. They may be expressing themselves sincerely, but that expression is limited by the artist's circumstances. But the world will always be spherical no matter the dominant culture.

[ComradeMan]

No, I'm saying that artists can come out with a load of old twaddle and thus we shouldn't set too much from what they say. They may be expressing themselves sincerely, but that expression is limited by the artist's circumstances. But the world will always be spherical no matter the dominant culture.

Next you'll be telling us you hate modern art because it doesn't look like anything....! :lol:

[Bud Struggle]

No, I'm saying that artists can come out with a load of old twaddle and thus we shouldn't set too much from what they say. They may be expressing themselves sincerely, but that expression is limited by the artist's circumstances. But the world will always be spherical no matter the dominant culture.

If Communism doesn't make some sort of ""peace" with art (As Capitalism did) it will alway get overthrown. EACH AND EVERY TIME, forever and ever.

Amen.

[Revolution starts with U]

Capitalist art?
I tremble to think Lady Gaga will be our Mona Lisa.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Next you'll be telling us you hate modern art because it doesn't look like anything....! :lol:

Actually, it depends on the modern art in question - like I said, I judge works on their merits as I see them. There is modern art that I like, and modern art that I think is trash.


If Communism doesn't make some sort of ""peace" with art (As Capitalism did) it will alway get overthrown. EACH AND EVERY TIME, forever and ever.

Amen.

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

[ComradeMan]

Actually, it depends on the modern art in question - like I said, I judge works on their merits as I see them. There is modern art that I like, and modern art that I think is trash.

De gustibus non disputandum est- all art has its merit.

[Bud Struggle]

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

Communism or what has passed for Communism in the past has had severe trouble with "art". Communism biforcated art in the 30s and onward--there was the official "state sponsored" art seen in the heroic Stalin poses and martial architecture as seen in Moscow and Warsaw and the underground art of the time. Guys like Shostakovich were PERSONALLY critiqued by Stalin for their work when it didn't fit in with Party pourposes.

Artists--real artists were confined to ghettos in the Soviet Union and suffered persecution. As long as there is official and dissedent art--there will be conflict in Communist society.

[ComradeMan]

Communism or what has passed for Communism in the past has had severe trouble with "art". Communism biforcated art in the 30s and onward--there was the official "state sponsored" art seen in the heroic Stalin poses and martial architecture as seen in Moscow and Warsaw and the underground art of the time. Guys like Shostakovich were PERSONALLY critiqued by Stalin for their work when it didn't fit in with Party pourposes.

Artists--real artists were confined to ghettos in the Soviet Union and suffered persecution. As long as there is official and dissedent art--there will be conflict in Communist society.

Stalin was a State Capitalist....;)

[Bud Struggle]

Stalin was a State Capitalist....;)

I know, I know--but after the Revolution when things calm down and the REALLY chic people (in the Communist society) pretending they are 1980 Reaganite yuppies because they think it is cool and singer sing protest songs about the wonders of the Stock Market---and painters paint pictures of the discontinued American dollar bill.

There is going to be trouble. :)

[ComradeMan]

I know, I know--but after the Revolution when things calm down and the REALLY chic people (in the Communist society) pretending they are 1980 Reaganite yuppies because they think it is cool and singer sing protest songs about the wonders of the Stock Market---and painters paint pictures of the discontinued American dollar bill.

There is going to be trouble. :)

Okay.....:rolleyes:

;)

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I know, I know--but after the Revolution when things calm down and the REALLY chic people (in the Communist society) pretending they are 1980 Reaganite yuppies because they think it is cool and singer sing protest songs about the wonders of the Stock Market---and painters paint pictures of the discontinued American dollar bill.

There is going to be trouble. :)

How so? People have renaissance fairs and historical re-enactments, but that doesn't mean that most of them want to go back to feudalism.

[ComradeMan]

How so? People have renaissance fairs and historical re-enactments, but that doesn't mean that most of them want to go back to feudalism.

Apparantly some do.... LOL!!!!!!!!!!

Robert was telling me about the monarchist forums.

What is a Renaissance fair if I may ask?

[Bud Struggle]

How so? People have renaissance fairs and historical re-enactments, but that doesn't mean that most of them want to go back to feudalism.

The job of art very often is to challenge the status quo. If Communism becomes the norm--then art will challenge it. And every now and then art actually changes the status quo.

Any problem with that?


What is a Renaissance fair if I may ask?
Lots of people put on 15th century clothes and go into the forest and eat and drink and sell trinkets.



http://i.pbase.com/o6/38/28838/1/86462087.T5cjT9jK._MG_7113.jpg

http://ic2.pbase.com/o6/38/28838/1/86462082.bF9UvL9R._MG_7088.jpg


http://i.pbase.com/o6/38/28838/1/86462066.tAyinwrb._MG_6788.jpg

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

The job of art very often is to challenge the status quo. If Communism becomes the norm--then art will challenge it. And every now and then art actually changes the status quo.

Any problem with that?

Not at all, because it won't be your tawdry socioeconomic system that'll be doing it.

[Bud Struggle]

If you won't mind--then we have no disagreement.

[Revolution starts with U]

I think Bud, that your thinking is still subject to a subconscious "communism = 1984."

[Jazzratt]

I think Bud, that your thinking is still subject to a subconscious "communism = 1984." Subconscious? I think Bud once had about 1984 and that's where his education on leftism began and ended. It would certainly explain why so many of his arguments are inane and meaningless.

[ComradeMan]

Subconscious? I think Bud once had about 1984 and that's where his education on leftism began and ended. It would certainly explain why so many of his arguments are inane and meaningless.

I don't think his arguments are inane and meaningless. He raises all the objections that capitalists raise and the various groups on the left need to know how to answer. He serves a purpose if you like. I notice he is beginning to soften up on some issues too.

[Bud Struggle]

Subconscious? I think Bud once had about 1984 and that's where his education on leftism began and ended. It would certainly explain why so many of his arguments are inane and meaningless.

Well, I certainly don't buy into the "we're going to have a Revolution and then we're all going to get along" brand of Communism. Waiting for the "Second Coming" of Communism is exactly the same as waiting for the second coming of Jesus--both events MAY happen, but I'm not holding my breath.

When it comes to Communism--what you've seen before is what you get next time. I don't see any reason to believe otherwise. I tend to be empirical on this.

But I do wish you well. :)

[RGacky3]

When it comes to Communism--what you've seen before is what you get next time. I don't see any reason to believe otherwise. I tend to be empirical on this.

When did you see a democratic economy?

[Bud Struggle]

When did you see a democratic economy?

I don't disagree with you there.

[Jazzratt]

I don't think his arguments are inane and meaningless. He raises all the objections that capitalists raise and the various groups on the left need to know how to answer. He serves a purpose if you like. I notice he is beginning to soften up on some issues too. He's been here for years saying the same damn thing over and over. He's a likeable chap but the arguments are dull.


Well, I certainly don't buy into the "we're going to have a Revolution and then we're all going to get along" brand of Communism. Waiting for the "Second Coming" of Communism is exactly the same as waiting for the second coming of Jesus--both events MAY happen, but I'm not holding my breath.

When it comes to Communism--what you've seen before is what you get next time. I don't see any reason to believe otherwise. I tend to be empirical on this.

But I do wish you well. :) The thing is that no on believes in the "communism" you're attacking. Not anarchists not trotskyites not even the fucking marxist-leninists. You are arguing against a phantasm that's entirely self created. It's why we may as well be saying anything in response to you and it wouldn't make one bloody iota of difference. Every time it looks like we're getting somewhere you always end up falling back on this tired bullshit. We may as well just reply to all your posts by typing "FISH CAKES" over and over again for the difference it makes.

[Bud Struggle]

The thing is that no on believes in the "communism" you're attacking. Not anarchists not trotskyites not even the fucking marxist-leninists. You are arguing against a phantasm that's entirely self created. It's why we may as well be saying anything in response to you and it wouldn't make one bloody iota of difference. Every time it looks like we're getting somewhere you always end up falling back on this tired bullshit. We may as well just reply to all your posts by typing "FISH CAKES" over and over again for the difference it makes.

The problem is that your "Communism" of the future is exactly like my "Communism" of the future: both are figments of our imaginations. If you can "make up" a Communist world--so can anyone else.

My basis for understand Communism come from visiting and seeing what the Soviet Union and the other Iron Curtain countries looked like in their decline before they disolved--not the best picture to be sure. Yours well, I guess you read some book and you read some magazines.

I don't see how you can think assert that your version of the future is any more true or correct than anyone elses.

[Jazzratt]

The problem is that your "Communism" of the future is exactly like my "Communism" of the future: both are figments of our imaginations. If you can "make up" a Communist world--so can anyone else. This is why there is utility to models and theories. You're basing your entire argument on the premise that all opinions hold equal weight whether they're arrived at from basically pulling the thing whole-cloth out your arse like you have or through careful consideration of the world through the lens of critical thought.


My basis for understand Communism come from visiting and seeing what the Soviet Union and the other Iron Curtain countries looked like in their decline before they disolved--not the best picture to be sure. Yours well, I guess you read some book and you read some magazines. Then you're a fucking idiot and there is little more to say. That's like saying any system without a monarch is going to collapse in on itself thanks to disgruntled citizenry because England under Oliver Cromwell was such a fucking mess. It's an ahistorical analysis based on gut feelings and "common sense". This, though has been explained to you in various ways and at various times. We'll just be going around the same shitty roundabout over and over again.


I don't see how you can think assert that your version of the future is any more true or correct than anyone elses. Mine is built on solid observations of the world and a recognition of the course of history in broad strokes. Yours is based on emotion, idiot prejudice and a view of history that would embarrass a child.

[Bud Struggle]

Mine is built on solid observations of the world and a recognition of the course of history in broad strokes. Yours is based on emotion, idiot prejudice and a view of history that would embarrass a child.

I see that.

[Rottenfruit]

This is something I have noticed a lot of this worrying trend lately, and because of this development I have never joined these forums. Do not get me wrong because some of the threads regarding many a subject are interesting, but I get sickened when I start reading threads with the titles of:
'Why are Jews so rich, and a player for the NWO'.
This thread comes from a forum of a certian researcher who himself has been accussed of being anti-Jewish, but in his forum it tends to turn into a debate claiming how so and so are the most evil people on Earth. Some nutjobs tend to claim the Holocaust does not exist, but if the NWO is so bad to these nutjobs then there must be something right with it.
I never joined that forum because if I did, it would be like me saying that I agree with this vicious rhetoric.

I would disagree on that, nazis are all conspiracy nutjobs but not all conspiracy nutjobs are nazis :lol:

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Also, when backed into a corner, Bud comes up with inane crap that borders on nonsense.

[WORLD]

I want to see David Icke prosecuted for inticement of racial hatred, because his forum is a hotbed of racist, anti-semitic, islamphobic and no anti-chinese filth!!! Apparently according to some of these people, the Holocaust never happened!! How evil and petty minded!!

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

My theory is no one really gives a flying fuck in real life, would beat their ass or insult them thus the internetz. This is my expert drunk analysis.

[RGacky3]

My basis for understand Communism come from visiting and seeing what the Soviet Union and the other Iron Curtain countries looked like in their decline before they disolved--not the best picture to be sure. Yours well, I guess you read some book and you read some magazines.

I don't see how you can think assert that your version of the future is any more true or correct than anyone elses.

No Bud, we have concrete examples of democratic economies and democratic economic institutions, they just arn't the totalitarian countries with red flags .... So Jazzratt is right, your not arguing against something real.

What your doing would be the equivilent of someone arguing against democracy and saying "Yeah but the democratic republic of the Congo ... OBVIOUSLY it did'nt work did it? Well they are the only country with democratic in their name, them and North Korea, so thats what democracy is in the real world ... OBVIOUSLY." Its idiotic, and you know better than that.

[ComradeMan]

No Bud, we have concrete examples of democratic economies and democratic economic institutions, they just arn't the totalitarian countries with red flags .... So Jazzratt is right, your not arguing against something real.

... that democratically knocked down the Berlin Wall and democratically abolished...err.... "communism".

[RGacky3]

Hey If I was around in poland during teh late 80s I'd probably have sided with solidarity.

Anyway whats your point? I'm talking about real life examples of democratic economies and democratic economic institutions, I don't know that the Berlin wall has to do with any of this.

[citizen of industry]

This is something I have noticed a lot of this worrying trend lately, and because of this development I have never joined these forums. Do not get me wrong because some of the threads regarding many a subject are interesting, but I get sickened when I start reading threads with the titles of:
'Why are Jews so rich, and a player for the NWO'.
This thread comes from a forum of a certian researcher who himself has been accussed of being anti-Jewish, but in his forum it tends to turn into a debate claiming how so and so are the most evil people on Earth. Some nutjobs tend to claim the Holocaust does not exist, but if the NWO is so bad to these nutjobs then there must be something right with it.
I never joined that forum because if I did, it would be like me saying that I agree with this vicious rhetoric.

When people are unable to explain things logically, they need a scapegoat. Mein Kampf is a good example of this. You can see where the guy's coming from until about halfway into the book, when it comes time to make some economic conclusions, then it's like WTF! Jews are responsible for all the world's problems, all the capitalist's are Jews and all the Communists are Jews, and they're working together to destroy Germany. Umm..okay, that's logical :confused:

[Kornilios Sunshine]

Believe me this is nothing.The Internet is so huge, you can even find pedophiles.As for the racists, they are pigs which know nothing about history and they swear all the time to cover the fact that they don't know shit ;)

[GPDP]

Was it really necessary to necromance an old thread from last year to discuss this?

[scarletghoul]

because 'conspiracy theories' tend to be stupid and irrational, and that becomes apparent to most people who look at them and study them for long enough. a lot of people have a phase on conspiracy theories, but usually rational scientific reasoning catches up with them and they become a socialist, or maybe just give up and become apathetic.. the ones who never surpass the irrational phase are gonna cling to crazy shit about the secret jewish reptilian world government etc (in short, if you believe these things for a long period of time instead of progressing in understanding of the world, you are a fool prone to crazy racism and whatnot)