What happened to this place?

[shaderabbit85]

I remember years ago, back when this was the "Che-Lives" forum, there was actual discussion on this forum. The only people who got banned or restricted back in the day were capitalists who had fun trolling and said stuff like "I hope you commie bastards rot in hell." Now if one says any number of words that some members may find "offensive," or god forbid an unpopular idea, off to OI or off the forum you go. That's honestly sad. I realize this is a private forum and "not a country," and that the forum mod (Malte?) lives in Germany and so doesn't want to get his balls in the burner if someone says something anti-semitic because of the laws there. However, the censorship of other things have gotten crazy. The last time I looked, it was a forum, not a political party. I read the posts in here in the OI forum and I see people who I'd be happy to walk a picket line with, and yet they're restricted because they offered up an unpopular view on an issue, such as abortion. I can say the book is far from shut on that one in the real world. I don't personally know any leftists that would picket an abortion clinic, but I do know quite a few that strongly disagree with it and would be of the opinion that it should be restricted. Yet if you ignored that, you probably couldn't tell these people apart from 95% of the members on the general forum here in their other positions. Same with MANY other issues here.

I'm honestly asking why the powers that be (I don't even know who they are these days) feel the need to have litmus tests on this issue or that issue, and ban or restrict members. The RCP up until recently considered homosexuality a product of capitalism (not saying I agree with that position). From what I've read the RCP are a small bunch of kooks anyway, but when I come on a place like this, I'm interested in hearing all views from all sides of the left spectrum. Shouldn't moderators function to break up silly pointless verbal spats ("fuck you hippy anarachist!" "No, fuck you authoritarian commie pig! And your mother!"), remove blatantly illegal material, and restrict capitalist trolls? Have the laws in Germany (where the webmaster is still based, I assume) changed to include not only anti-semitic remarks but all "offensive" material? Or are people here so sensitive that they can't possibly read something that may "offend" them? :confused:

[Nolan]

There are so called "communists," such as CPRF in Russia, that hold homophobic views.

Does that mean we at RevLeft have to allow that on the forum? No. Reactionary views are possible no matter what someone calls themself or what their other politics are.

Being against a woman's right to choose is a reactionary position and whoever advocates that position should be restricted no questions asked.

[shaderabbit85]

No, like I said, Revleft is not a public square, but neither is it a political party. I understand that, but I don't agree with it. Is the purpose of this forum to, as someone else said in a previous post, "intellectually masturbate" each other?

I notice it says you're from the USA, so am I. So you should know as well as I do that the majority of people, unfortunately, at this junction in time, do not share our general views of economics, let alone some other issues. If leftists can't debate and discuss with each other here, how the fuck are we going to change society?

I'll tell you a secret comrades, I watch FOX news every fucking night when I can. Why do I do this, you ask? I want to know the enemies' point of view so that I can counter it (not that I think the other media outlets are terribly "liberal" despite what the teabaggers say).

I didn't post this to start a debate on abortion, as that apparently is a "no no" nowadays. However, when does life begin? If a pregnant women is horrifically injured in a car crash and is obviously going to die, should the doctors in the ER not try to save the baby because it's "not a human"?

The high school I went to was in an extremely conservative area, and the first person to walk out of school and hold up a sign protesting the Iraq war when it started was not me. It was a brave classmate of mine. The first day she was protesting the republican mafia left school early, went to the grocery store, came back, and drove back and forth in front of the school and pelted her with fruit until someone called the cops. And you know what? I was friends with her, and I know she was against abortion. And you know what? I shared the picket line with her the second day at the small protest, and I'd gladly share a picket line with her any motherfucking day of the week (as long as it wasn't in front of an abortion clinic, haha). And you're saying we can't even discuss it?

[Nolan]

While we are all leftists, we disagree on many things. Some of the most heated arguments can be had with people who agree with you on 99% of things. Calling it intellectual masturbation" is rather dumb. Sectarian shitstorms are rife on this board.

This is a community for revolutionary leftists. Not for reactionaries such as anti-choicers. Instead of banning them, however, we do give them a platform in OI. They're extremely lucky that they aren't outright banned for not being here for the purpose of the forum.

[The Grey Blur]

Is the purpose of this forum to, as someone else said in a previous post, "intellectually masturbate" each other?
yes.

hysterical posts about the decline of revleft are nothing new. this is a discussion board not a tool for political organisation. and a woman has the right to have complete say over her body.

[shaderabbit85]

I'm really not trying to personally attack you man (I haven't read a lot of your posts, just by chance, I'm not ignoring them :)), but your constant use of the word "reactionary" smacks of thought control. Who decides what is reactionary? Like I said, this isn't a political party, there's no specific "platform" for membership and discussion, other than the abortion issue. Limiting discussion to only "Trotsky vs Stalin" etc and the like is "intellectual masturbation" in my view.

I'm not trying to be hysterical, I really don't care all that much in the grand scheme of my life, I just would like an honest, rational answer about why somethings can not be discussed among leftists. If someone comes in here and says rich people have earned all their money, women deserve to be paid less than men, it's ok to have ghettos in american cities, rah rah war in iraq, etc, yes, obviously they're a capitalist troll, get them out or in here in OI. But to have litmus tests on comrades in discussion forums smacks of thought control and intellectual weakness.

[Sentinel]

The last time I looked, it was a forum, not a political party. I read the posts in here in the OI forum and I see people who I'd be happy to walk a picket line with, and yet they're restricted because they offered up an unpopular view on an issue, such as abortion.

Precisely for the reason that it is a forum, and not a political party, we restrict those with opposing views. While it might be possible to fight capitalism on the picket line with some of those people, it isn't possible to have a progressive debate on abortion rights where they are allowed.

For restriction is not, originally, meant as a punishment at all but a tool necessary to moderate the discussion. Revleft has evolved since the Che-Lives days, and new rules and measures have been adapted as a result.

So when the Discrimination forum was launched, it soon turned out that every thread intended to discuss tactics to combat anti-abortionism turned into a discussion about the right to abortion in the first place. The result was that the community decided, with an overwhelming majority of votes, that anti-abortionists were to be restricted to solve this problem. Some were against this as too harsh, others as too lenient, but that's how we decided.

As for allowing homophobes to post, we are obviously aware that there still exists homophobia within the left. These people are banned, or in mild cases restricted to show that Revleft explicitly and fully joins the side of the modern left, and the victims rather than the culprits, in this struggle. This issue is also recognised as much less controversial than the abortion one, and there is rarely any resistance voiced to homophobes being banned.

That is the result of progress, and what anti-abortionists also have to see forward to in the future, as attitudes modernise and develop.

In any case, this thread should be closed by the first global mod or admin that comes by, the OI forum is certainly not an appropriate place to contest our rules and guidelines.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Sentinel covered it.

Closed