Freemasonry

[ONE]

What do you guys think?? A secret cult or a law-abiding fraternity?

I wasn't sure which forum to post this in; "Opposing Ideologies" seemed appropriate.

[RedCeltic]

I remember as a kid my grandfather told me that as he was growing up in Scotland the Freemasons were very much anti-Catholic, so sort of a hate group in his eyes.

From my experience however, it seems like more of a social group than anything else... however the whole secret society thing is a bit worrysome :unsure:

[Rastafari]

quite true. I think they believe in a different masiah, or something

[Umoja]

The Freemasons aren't praticurally special, they are just a very "public" secret society. Plently of others exist, and most of them are probubly nothing more then social in purpose.

[ONE]

According to them, they're not a religion and they welcome anyone of any race and/or religion.

Umoja, yes there are others, one that I recently learned of (from a member) is the The Rosicrucian Order, internationally known as AMORC (Ancient Mystical Order Rosae Crucis)

I agree with RedCeltic though:


... the whole secret society thing is a bit worrysome


They claim that their organization is not clandestine, but there are secret elements to it (ex identifying members...) However, there are a lot of rumors about their cult-like rituals and the nature of their belief system and spirituality (Lucifer is on their list of gods according to a Christian-influenced site) Then again, Christians are threatened by everything and everyone...

... I just want to learn the truth.

[Umoja]

Masons are generally Christians.

I can name hundreds of secret societies, most of them far more worrisome then the Masons. What about the Order of the Golden Dawn, and other occult groups for example? They claim to be doing manipulative stuff. What about the "Skull and crossed bones"?

[Palmares]

When I hear 'freemasonry' I think of conspiracy theorists. :wacko:

The illuminadi (is that right?) sounds cooler though. :lol:

[Dark Capitalist]

Both my father and grandfather are masons.

From what I understand, you generally just have to be white and except the existence of a higher being in order to join. I think there might be some other requirments and 'rites', though I'm not to sure what they are.


I might join, and then again I might not. I've heard rumors that it's dominated by Jews, though it seems unlikely, hopefully the rumors are false.


Oh yeah, and you have to be recommended by two other masons before you quaify to join.

[trudeaumania]

As a former Mason, myself. I can attest that what I experienced and saw. Were just average Joe's trying to occupy some free time, in a somewhat worthwhile cause. I have read alot of the controversary between the Catholic Church and Masons. But the explanation I was given was that the Freemason's in Europe were about ideology against the Church. Which here in the states just wasn't a issue. Are there conspiring members? probably just as in any orginization. You will have not only the good, but the bad. But again my experence was with individuals who were killing time in a worthwhile cause. In this case, the masons, were engaged in many humanitarian causes. But I think it would be very hard not to believe in the same political beliefs as they do, and still be a member. It is really all about God, flag and country.

[suffianr]

From what I understand, you generally just have to be white and except the existence of a higher being in order to join. I think there might be some other requirments and 'rites', though I'm not to sure what they are.

Sounds like the KKK minus the shotguns and Bud the Golden Retriever. Hallelujah, Jimmy, we's gonna git us some Injuns!

[ONE]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2003, 07:47 AM
As a former Mason, myself. I can attest that what I experienced and saw. Were just average Joe's trying to occupy some free time, in a somewhat worthwhile cause. I have read alot of the controversary between the Catholic Church and Masons. But the explanation I was given was that the Freemason's in Europe were about ideology against the Church. Which here in the states just wasn't a issue. Are there conspiring members? probably just as in any orginization. You will have not only the good, but the bad. But again my experence was with individuals who were killing time in a worthwhile cause. In this case, the masons, were engaged in many humanitarian causes. But I think it would be very hard not to believe in the same political beliefs as they do, and still be a member. It is really all about God, flag and country.
Thanks a lot for your input trudeaumania! It's good to have a former member shed some light on this topic.

Would you describe this organization as clandestine? Why did you leave if you don't mind me asking?

I heard that the lower ranking members are in fact average Joes who were deceived - propaganda?? I don't know. It's those high-ranking members that you have to fear. Do you think this might be the case trudeaumania?

What are their goals? mission/vision statement? Are they guarded? what's their true hidden agenda that only high ranking members get to engage in? (This is the scary part!!) Do high ranking members transcends the law?



"It is really all about God, flag and country"

But they exist all over the world, how can an international organization be all about that? (Well, the God part makes sense) Seems like this is lodge specific... and to be honest, sounds very American too! Maybe the overt goals are variable.


Dark Capitalist, They say that membership is open to people of all races and religions. Seems like being white is only a prerequisite where you are. Where do you live? Maybe that particular lodge is racist... trudeaumania, is it true that you have to be white?




Sounds like the KKK minus the shotguns and Bud the Golden Retriever. Hallelujah, Jimmy, we's gonna git us some Injuns!


haha :lol:

Cthenthar, is it illuminati ? what do you know about them?

[Dark Capitalist]

My mistake. You don't have to be white.

[Umoja]

The Mason's recently integrated. Quite a few lodges are of black Masons.

The whole point is that they are secret just for the sake of it. It's not some grand high conspiracy though, because they do keep the symbols widely known. Now the Illumanati on the other hand, probubly isn't real, but stands as the ultimate secret organization. (Play Deus Ex) Fjnord!

[Palmares]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2003, 02:45 AM
Cthenthar, is it illuminati ? what do you know about them?
The Illuminati is a group (and secret society) that practices a form of faith known as "enlightenment". It is Luciferian, and they teach their followers that their roots go back to the ancient mystery religions of Babylon, Egypt, and Celtic druidism. They have taken what they consider the "best" of each, the foundational practices, and joined them together into a strongly occult discipline. Some of the groups worship ancient Eygptian Gods.

They patronise 'lower' religions among other things.

They are weird...

[Umoja]

The Illumanati is not real, I'm completely serious. It's a circle jerk of all the conspiracy theories pilled together, and mixed with some odd Bavarian group.

[trudeaumania]

Originally posted by ONE+Aug 14 2003, 04:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ONE @ Aug 14 2003, 04:45 PM)
[email protected] 14 2003, 07:47 AM
As a former Mason, myself. I can attest that what I experienced and saw. Were just average Joe&#39;s trying to occupy some free time, in a somewhat worthwhile cause. I have read alot of the controversary between the Catholic Church and Masons. But the explanation I was given was that the Freemason&#39;s in Europe were about ideology against the Church. Which here in the states just wasn&#39;t a issue. Are there conspiring members? probably just as in any orginization. You will have not only the good, but the bad. But again my experence was with individuals who were killing time in a worthwhile cause. In this case, the masons, were engaged in many humanitarian causes. But I think it would be very hard not to believe in the same political beliefs as they do, and still be a member. It is really all about God, flag and country.
Thanks a lot for your input trudeaumania&#33; It&#39;s good to have a former member shed some light on this topic.

Would you describe this organization as clandestine? Why did you leave if you don&#39;t mind me asking?

I heard that the lower ranking members are in fact average Joes who were deceived - propaganda?? I don&#39;t know. It&#39;s those high-ranking members that you have to fear. Do you think this might be the case trudeaumania?

What are their goals? mission/vision statement? Are they guarded? what&#39;s their true hidden agenda that only high ranking members get to engage in? (This is the scary part&#33;&#33;) Do high ranking members transcends the law?



"It is really all about God, flag and country"

But they exist all over the world, how can an international organization be all about that? (Well, the God part makes sense) Seems like this is lodge specific... and to be honest, sounds very American too&#33; Maybe the overt goals are variable.


Dark Capitalist, They say that membership is open to people of all races and religions. Seems like being white is only a prerequisite where you are. Where do you live? Maybe that particular lodge is racist... trudeaumania, is it true that you have to be white?




Sounds like the KKK minus the shotguns and Bud the Golden Retriever. Hallelujah, Jimmy, we&#39;s gonna git us some Injuns&#33;


haha :lol:

Cthenthar, is it illuminati ? what do you know about them?[/b]
Would you describe this organization as clandestine? Why did you leave if you don&#39;t mind me asking?

I heard that the lower ranking members are in fact average Joes who were deceived - propaganda?? I don&#39;t know. It&#39;s those high-ranking members that you have to fear. Do you think this might be the case trudeaumania?

What are their goals? mission/vision statement? Are they guarded? what&#39;s their true hidden agenda that only high ranking members get to engage in? (This is the scary part&#33;&#33;) Do high ranking members transcends the law?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you definition of clandestine is a secret orginization, open only to certain individuals. Then yes.- I left, basically when I was going through a divorce, but I entered mainly with a friends help. And at the time I was just overly curious what went on, and what the big secret was.
As far as the high ranking members. There are politicians, judges, etc. I know every branch of the government is represented. But I never met any personally. But if you read some bio&#39;s on famous individuals. You get an idea just how intertwined the masons are.
Their stated goals, are the betterment of mankind. What there hidden goals are, who knows. Do high ranking members transend the law? Good question. I am sure if you are high enough in the organization. And a problem arose, and you have fellow &#39;lodge brothers&#39; that could help. What would stop them, from utilizing the connections.
As far as race goes. It seems even they have been immune to the Civil Right&#39;s Act of 1964. Most lodges are segregated, as membership is voted by anonymous means. You put either a white, or black ball into a box. If one black ball is in the box, at the end of the voting process, the candidate for membership, isn&#39;t granted membership into the lodge. Hence the term - &#39;black balled&#39;. But there are lodges called &#39;Prince Hall" That are mainly just African American lodges. By the way Prince Hall, was a free ex-slave who was granted addmission during the Revolutionary War, to a British Lodge. But after the war, with the colonists victory. Interrgrated British Lodges were not recognized, only segregated American Lodges. --I hope this helps. :)

[ONE]

Thanks for the info Trudeaumania.



I am sure if you are high enough in the organization. And a problem arose, and you have fellow &#39;lodge brothers&#39; that could help. What would stop them, from utilizing the connections.


...and if they do that, who knows how far they go&#33;&#33;




The Illumanati is not real, I&#39;m completely serious.


I hope you&#39;re right Umoja.

I noticed that a lot of these organization have this thing for ancient civilizations, their religions and spirituality (with one of the most popular being the Egyptian&#39;s) - Especially the Rosicrucian Order, which I mentioned earlier...

All these organizations mentioned in this thread remind me of that secret, wealthy and influential cult in the movie "Eyes Wide Shut"

[Invader Zim]

The whole massive secret socioty thing reaks of the KKK etc. Who has seen the simpsons episode which takes the piss?

[ONE]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2003, 11:29 PM
The whole massive secret socioty thing reaks of the KKK etc. Who has seen the simpsons episode which takes the piss?
I&#39;m not familiar with the term "takes the piss" :unsure: , but If you&#39;re talking about the "Stone Cutters" episode on the Simpsons; it was great&#33; :D

[suffianr]

"takes the piss"

To make fun of something/someone in a good-natured, highly abusive sort of way. However, "on the piss" means you&#39;re drinking. And "pissed" means you&#39;re drunk. Whereas "it&#39;s a piece of piss" means it&#39;s easy. There. How wonderfully versatile.

[ONE]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2003, 01:42 PM

"takes the piss"

To make fun of something/someone in a good-natured, highly abusive sort of way. However, "on the piss" means you&#39;re drinking. And "pissed" means you&#39;re drunk. Whereas "it&#39;s a piece of piss" means it&#39;s easy. There. How wonderfully versatile.
Thanks for your informative post Suffianr. :lol:

I did know the meaning of "pissed" though :D

[Yevgraf]

All the founding members of the Ku Klux Klan were masons.
Essentially the KKK is an offshoot of freemasonry.

In Scotland, the freemasons are most associated with anti-Catholic religious bigotry(e.g. job discrimination)

[honest intellectual]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2003, 12:57 AM
The Illumanati is not real, I&#39;m completely serious. It&#39;s a circle jerk of all the conspiracy theories pilled together, and mixed with some odd Bavarian group.
It is true that a secret societyt called The Illuminati, meaning &#39;The Enlightened Ones&#39;, was founded by a guy called Adam Weishaupt in Germany in 186something. It is probable that they died out without ever acheiving anything, but who&#39;s to say?

As for the masons, the more I think about it, the more it seems they must be up to something. Unless it&#39;s just like in The Simpsons with the Stonecutters.

Homer - I saw sick, twisted stuff going on in that place last night. Sick, twisted, evil, eerie, creepy, godless stuff. And I want in.
-----
Lisa - But what do they do, dad?
Homer - What do they do? What do they do?&#33; What don&#39;t they do? They do all kinds of things. Oh, the things they do&#33; My stars&#33;
Lisa - You don&#39;t know what they do, do you?
Homer - Not as such, no.
-----
&#39;Number One&#39; - Now let&#39;s get drunk and play ping-pong&#33;