hammer and sickle

[moodymikey]

what 'ism' does the hammer and sickle belong to. I always thought it was sovietism but my friend told me that it was in fact anarco-communism. Is he wrong?

[Felicia]

I've always thought that it was soviet aswell .... :blink:

[il Commy]

It represents the alliance between workers (hammer) and peasants (sickle). It belongs to communism and sovietism, but I guess some anarcho-communists use it.

[moodymikey]

thanks for clearing that up il commy!

[antieverything]

I believe it was actually first used by Christian Socialists. Currently it is almost exlusively used by Leninist organizations.

[FatFreeMilk]

In the "anarchy for dummies" thread it says that anarchists share no ideas with leninists so maybe the hammer and sickle is the only thing they share? :blink:

[antieverything]

I have never once seen an anarchist group use the hammer y sickel. Not one time.

[BOZG]

The Hammer and Sickle could actually be used by any leftist organisation. Anarchists could use it as the symbol in itself merely means the unity between the peasantry and working class and nothing more but they tend to not use it because of its links with the USSR.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

to me it means socialism, which is any form of government that yields to the will of the working class.

[Comrade Ceausescu]

it is commonly known as the symbol of communism

[BOZG]

It's a symbol of unity between workers and the peasantry against the capitalist class.

[Saint-Just]

Its usually seen as the Soviet flag. The Chines Communist Party once made a red star with the hammer and sickle in the centre as their flag.

Nowadays the DPRK has the hammer, sickle and quill as the symbol of the Worker's Party. The Hammer being the industrial working-class, the sickle being the peasants and the quill being the intellectual.

[Nick Yves]

Whats the DPRK?

[Morpheus]

DPRK = Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Also called North Korea. The Hammer & Sickle was occassionally used by some anarchists a century ago, but we stopped using it after the Russian Revolution as a result of it's association with the USSR & Leninism. The same is true of the Red Flag.

[Faceless]

OK, so I know that the hammer and sickle has been used by many libertarian, commie, anarchist groups etc. but the star on the Red Flag above them; it's meant to represent peace over the five continents. Just to clarify, was Austrilasia just considered a part of Asia because of its small size and sparse population? :huh:

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2003, 08:37 PM
to me it means socialism, which is any form of government that yields to the will of the working class.
I would agree with this idea. This sould have been a poll, so many repeated ideas.

[Conghaileach]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2003, 02:35 PM
OK, so I know that the hammer and sickle has been used by many libertarian, commie, anarchist groups etc. but the star on the Red Flag above them; it's meant to represent peace over the five continents. Just to clarify, was Austrilasia just considered a part of Asia because of its small size and sparse population? :huh:
I thought that there were seven continents.

As far as I'm aware, the five-sided star represents the five sections of the workers - industrial, peasant, soldier, intellectual and student.

Dzershinksy (sp?) designed the hammer and sickle, along with the rest of the Soviet flag. This was the first time they had been used together, so it'd be correct to presume that they can be most easily associated with sovietism.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

if you ignore antartica, where no one lives, and count all the Americas as 1, then there are only 5 continents.
but i like ciaran's idea better. glad to you back, comarde.

[crazy comie]

i think it also genrally means socialism excluding bourgeois socialim

[Faceless]

Ciarian might be right. I just read somewhere that it was peace on the five continents. I prefer your idea though. And I did know how many continents there should be. I just found it hard to think that peace over Anarctica menat anything. One more comment:- socialism is so vague. Its just egalitarian economics. I know centre-left democrats don't use the Red Flag or hammer and sickle. Where do you draw the line?

[Conghaileach]

A lot of people probably use the hammer and sickle because it's a symbol easily identifiable with communism, if not the left in general. It's also become something of a rebellious symbol in Western Europe and the U.S., which means that there are unfortunately a lot of middle-class kids running around with shirts, badges, patches etc. of the hammer and sickle, who may only wear it because of the shock value within some circles. There's also a clothing label called Soviet, but it's hardly revolutionary.

It's kind of like the problem with the prostitution of Che's face. Of course, I say this as I look at a 'Che' clock (an effin' clock!) my aunt got me for passing my A levels.


ps - Thanks for the welcome, Victorcommie.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2003, 05:07 PM
A lot of people probably use the hammer and sickle because it's a symbol easily identifiable with communism, if not the left in general. It's also become something of a rebellious symbol in Western Europe and the U.S., which means that there are unfortunately a lot of middle-class kids running around with shirts, badges, patches etc. of the hammer and sickle, who may only wear it because of the shock value within some circles. There's also a clothing label called Soviet, but it's hardly revolutionary.

It's kind of like the problem with the prostitution of Che's face. Of course, I say this as I look at a 'Che' clock (an effin' clock!) my aunt got me for passing my A levels.


ps - Thanks for the welcome, Victorcommie.
Comrade CieranB,
I agree with the parallel you show between Sickle and Hammer logos and "Soviet" clothing and all the Che heads you see on people who have no idea who he was. There were a number of British punks in the 1970s who wore swastikas just to piss people off... it is the same thing really.

I dislike the abuse of the sickle and hammer by stupid pseudo-punks. I saw the drummer of one of those pop-punk bands wearing a USSR T-shirt during a performance on an MTV awards show!

:hammer: :hammer: :hammer: Sickle and Hammer Forever! :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

[suffianr]

I bought a pair of Soviet corduroys, ages ago...they were on sale.

But seriously, what about coming up with a newer symbol for communism? Or has the Hammer & Sickle been immortalised to the extent that it might overshadow a new type of symbol? I mean, I'm just curious here, but since we're in Theory,well, theoretically, has anyone ever considered the possibility of a new motif, as to symbolise of a new era of the Left? At the risk of sounding pretentious, a sort of New & Improved sort of thing? :ph34r:

[crazy comie]

cool idea

[Conghaileach]

Does the left need a new symbol(s)?

We've got the red star, hammer and sickle, red flag, black flag, black cat, black-and-red flag - all symbols with their own meaning and significance.

The symbols don't exist because they look cool or whatever; they all mean something.

Personally, the symbol I use most is the starry plough (see my avatar, left) because it best represents Socialist Republicanism. Its a redesign of the original, below. The plough represents the present conditions of the workers, and the stars stand for the future.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2003, 04:07 PM
ps - Thanks for the welcome, Victorcommie.
you're welcome, comarde. I'm glad you understood what i said when i wrote glad to you back, comarde., i actualy meant glad to see you back, comarde. :lol:

i didn't know that about your avatar, btw.

[the SovieT]

the hammer and syckle by itself means litle..

in fact to be complete it needs the star and a red background..
~this because the simple alliance of the peasents with the proletariat isnt enough..

we cannot set our historical backgrond (for the red being the blood spilled by the proletariat in theyr fight against the bourgeouse etc etc) and the proletarian internationalism (the star)...


yet regarding to symbols i would also use the RDA symbol, this because one cannot forget the intelectuals (represented by the compass i think), but i would say that DPRK symbol (the pen and the plow) is also a great symbol to use...
to bad its being use by the "jucheists" :P :D

[commie kg]

Lenin was actually going to add a sword in with the hammer and sickle, but thought it was too militaristic.

I use the red star more than the H&S. H&S reminds me too much of the USSR.

[the SovieT]

actually it wasnt Lenin who wanted to had the sword symbolizing the soldiers..

it was the politburo..
but in the end the politburo ended up voting against it