Communism in the American heartland....

[RadioRaheem84]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qOpJC7hy-8&feature=channel

Interesting. I usually don't trust Russia Times but I wouldn't doubt it if this type of living is becoming more the rage.

[Rakhmetov]

Now if we could only enlarge this system nationwide and worldwide to include industrial workers in unions etc. not just farmers and agrarian folks.

[KurtFF8]

Pretty interesting story. Glad to see my home state have something like this (although it does ring a bit of Owen's New Harmony style socialism).

RT tends to give voice to the Left more than most American media, although I wouldn't classify RT as "mainstream"

[Leonid Brozhnev]

Awesome. Never thought I'd say this but... let's move to America.
(Or better, just start a Commune here)
People's comments make me despair a bit. This isn't Communism like they've been brainwashed into believing so most are passing these guys off as 'Hippies' simply because it's not communism on an Industrial scale. I'd love to see this on an industrial scale...

[bailey_187]

Sorry but this is not how i want to live. I dont want be "self-sufficent" and have barely any consumer goods. This may be "Communism" in the sense of communes blah blah blah, but it isnt the dictatorship of the proletariat, and certainly isnt a new mode of production that can succeed capitalism. They admit that themselves, they say they are less productive.

[scarletghoul]

Am I the only one who finds the idea of communal farming absolutely repulsive. i hate how these fucking hippies not only think they can live meaningfully outside of capitalism but also deproletarianise the impression of our movement with this fucking farming shit.

[RadioRaheem84]

No it's not really communism per se. It's just self sufficient Owen-esque commune-ism. Like a Kibbutz.

BUT it is a response to capitalism and an anti-capitalist movement none the less.

That is the key.

[KurtFF8]

Sorry but this is not how i want to live. I dont want be "self-sufficent" and have barely any consumer goods. This may be "Communism" in the sense of communes blah blah blah, but it isnt the dictatorship of the proletariat, and certainly isnt a new mode of production that can succeed capitalism. They admit that themselves, they say they are less productive.

It's perfectly possible to have a socialist/communist society that purposefully becomes less productive. The most glaring reason to do this to me would be the ecological disaster that is contemporary Capitalism (caused in large part by Capitalism's need to grow)

[Robocommie]

Sorry but this is not how i want to live. I dont want be "self-sufficent" and have barely any consumer goods. This may be "Communism" in the sense of communes blah blah blah, but it isnt the dictatorship of the proletariat, and certainly isnt a new mode of production that can succeed capitalism. They admit that themselves, they say they are less productive.

It's small scale communism without any heavy industry. Going off of what they have, it's a success. If it were expanded to include industry, then there'd be a higher standard of living for everyone with more manufactured goods. But then again, world socialism doesn't really mean we'll all have houses you've seen on MTV Cribs.

[Comrade Marxist Bro]

No it's not really communism per se. It's just self sufficient Owen-esque commune-ism.

Don't see anything wrong with communal self-sufficiency.


Like a Kibbutz.

Minus the racism and allegiance to the militarized capitalist state.

[Robocommie]

I think some of the Youtube comments are hilarious, particularly the idiot who insists that the community isn't Communistic, but is in fact a "capitalist free market society at it's best." Idiotic Free Republic types with no understanding of what his system actually entails - like the annihilation of one's competitors for private gain.

[bailey_187]

It's small scale communism without any heavy industry. Going off of what they have, it's a success. If it were expanded to include industry, then there'd be a higher standard of living for everyone with more manufactured goods. But then again, world socialism doesn't really mean we'll all have houses you've seen on MTV Cribs.

why not?

[Robocommie]

why not?

Because that's not realistic. Frankly I don't trust people who are convinced that life after the Revolution is going to be all champagne, caviar and fast cars, they seem to be focused more on getting all the rewards of consumerism without realizing that the cult of consumerism is precisely what has put us in this sick system of distribution in the first place. People's needs come first over people's luxuries.

We must be prepared to live simply so that others can simply live.

[Leonid Brozhnev]

If somebody wants to live outside capitalism, I wouldn't try and convince them otherwise. I think something like this on a larger scale could be educational to some dimwits out there, of course they would need to make it clear that Communism is not just about self sufficient Farming and living with the bare minimum, it can be expanded to Industry and Commerce too.

[scarletghoul]

Minus the racism and allegiance to the militarized capitalist state.
The Kibbutzim were around before the State of Israel weren't they ? Not sure how Zionist they were then

[Robocommie]

The Kibbutzim were around before the State of Israel weren't they ? Not sure how Zionist they were then

They pre-date the state of Israel, but the settlement of the area was creating problems from day one. Most of the land for kibbutzim was bought from Arab landowners who had previously employed Palestinian peasants. Since the Jews were buying the land with the intention of working it communally, this meant the Arab peasants had no more work and as often as not, nowhere to live. The Kibbutzim were the essence of Zionism, which was originally a combination of secular Jewish nationalism and 19th century socialism.

[cb9's_unity]

That was a pretty good piece about the people on the farm, followed by one of the most useless discussion of socialism as compared to communism that i've ever seen.

A section of the communist manifesto deals with how communes like this are entirely useless. It's almost comical to compare a small farm like this to one of the massive leninist states and both call them communism.

Also this farm to has to produce commodities and sell them on the free market. So at best it walks the line between a commune and a workers cooperative.

[KurtFF8]

So at best it walks the line between a commune and a workers cooperative.

Right, but personally: I'd rather people who want to just "drop out of capitalism" do this kind of thing instead of hop trains and go dumpster diving. At least they aren't stuck on liberal individualism.

[chegitz guevara]

There are actually lots of these places around, but I haven't seen one in a city that's more industrially or technologically oriented. That might be fun.

[KurtFF8]

There are actually lots of these places around, but I haven't seen one in a city that's more industrially or technologically oriented. That might be fun.

Would this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freetown_Christiania) count?

[gorillafuck]

why not?
Just so you know, just because there's enough food on the planet to feed everyone doesn't mean there's enough resources on the planet to have everyone live in a mansion.

[Robocommie]

Also this farm to has to produce commodities and sell them on the free market. So at best it walks the line between a commune and a workers cooperative.

I'm not so sure. Apparently they produce and sell hammocks which brings in cash that they use communally, but how is this different from the Cuban state exporting sugar and tobacco or the Soviet Union exporting grain during the Five Year Plans to fund industrialization? It seems to work on the same principle only reduced by several magnitudes of scale.

[Comrade Marxist Bro]

I'm not so sure. Apparently they produce and sell hammocks which brings in cash that they use communally, but how is this different from the Cuban state exporting sugar and tobacco or the Soviet Union exporting grain during the Five Year Plans to fund industrialization? It seems to work on the same principle only reduced by several magnitudes of scale.

Indeed -- in that respect, these folks are building socialism in one commune.

[bailey_187]

Just so you know, just because there's enough food on the planet to feed everyone doesn't mean there's enough resources on the planet to have everyone live in a mansion.

so theres a shoratge of bricksand paint? or isit fibre glass?


i know its fashionable to say we have limited this and we need be 'sustaiNABLE' with that

PEACE BREAD AND SMALLER HOUSES!!! LESS BREAD TOO, THAT USES TOO MUCH WATER!!!!!!!! FUCK OFF U CANTS

[bailey_187]

THANK FUCK THESE TORY WANKERS ARE BRINGING US AUSTERITY, THATS JUST WHAT WE THE LABOUR MOVEMENT ADVOCATE RIGHT?

no fuick off, man wants everyone out here on a big meech lifetstyle, letd do it (minus shotting coke)

[Salyut]

Just so you know, just because there's enough food on the planet to feed everyone doesn't mean there's enough resources on the planet to have everyone live in a mansion.

Plenty of building materials around. I mean hell, rammed earth is a awesome material.

In practice its easier to build and maintain smaller houses though. I say this as someone who wants to build one one day.


There are actually lots of these places around, but I haven't seen one in a city that's more industrially or technologically oriented. That might be fun.

I live between two Hutterite colonies. They run large industrial (and productive) farming operations with some light industry (the one has a biodiseal plant online and the other is building prefab buildings inside a giant ass quonset). Mind you these are patriarchal religious communes but they do function pretty well in terms of productivity.

Have there been any industrial communes (Oneida maybe?). It wouldn't take much to bootstrap this Twin Oaks place into metal fabrication*

*CNC mills! Casting and forges! Plasma cutters! MIG welders! You can actually build a entire machine shop working from a backyard forge - I am not shitting you. (http://www.lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/series/index.html)

[gorillafuck]

so theres a shoratge of bricksand paint? or isit fibre glass?
You can't have everyone living in a mansion in areas of high population concentration, like cities. And more than half the world population lives in cities. You could only have people all in mansions in suburbs, and suburbs are pretty inefficient economically so we should try to minimize those in the name of efficiency. Because, yeah, the earth has limited resources. That's not very deniable. Democratic planning of the economy could use resources better as well as increase consumption.


i know its fashionable to say we have limited this and we need be 'sustaiNABLE' with thatYou got me. I definitely just said that the world doesn't have infinite resources to be fashionable. Nothing to do with it being objectively true.

I'm not even active in environmentalist politics. But it's cool, if you imagine me as a an environmental activist who talks about reducing consumption it might make you feel like you really got me good.


PEACE BREAD AND SMALLER HOUSES!!! LESS BREAD TOO, THAT USES TOO MUCH WATER!!!!!!!! FUCK OFF U CANTSNot even close to what I said. I never ever said people should reduce consumption. You're just pretending I did.


Plenty of building materials around. I mean hell, rammed earth is a awesome material.
Yeah, but I'm not just going to buy into the idea that 7 billion people can have mansions.

[Salyut]

Yeah, but I'm not just going to buy into the idea that 7 billion people can have mansions.

Well the building material angle is covered so...

[thecoffeecake1]

As long as strides are continued to be made in the fields of medicine art and science, I see a little less production as a good thing. No more of this 9-5 going through the motions bull shit, excess production leads to excess income, leads to exploitation of workers, leads to stressed out, unhappy people all across the board, from the workers to the boss. produce what you need, that's it

[scarletghoul]

I dont want to live in a mansion or anything, just want to know for sure that i have somewhere to live and also enough free time to make/enjoy art and study, thats all i want for myself in life

But its wrong to think that we somehow cant afford to make every persons life comfortable and prosperous. in an ideal society the world would
be a collective mansion i guess. but anyway once we take care of the basics like food and shelter for everyone then why shouldnt we indulge in other things

[The Douche]

They work 42 hours a week or get kicked out?

Fuck off.

[Robocommie]

PEACE BREAD AND SMALLER HOUSES!!! LESS BREAD TOO, THAT USES TOO MUCH WATER!!!!!!!! FUCK OFF U CANTS

I like how you seem to think that the options are either huge, MTV mansions and gas guzzling Italian sportscars, or little plywood shacks with a few dry crusts of bread, and maybe, I presume, horsecarts.

What'd you do with that excluded middle?

[Robocommie]

I dont want to live in a mansion or anything, just want to know for sure that i have somewhere to live and also enough free time to make/enjoy art and study, thats all i want for myself in life

But its wrong to think that we somehow cant afford to make every persons life comfortable and prosperous. in an ideal society the world would
be a collective mansion i guess. but anyway once we take care of the basics like food and shelter for everyone then why shouldnt we indulge in other things

I mean, "indulgence" and "luxuries" are kinda relative, aren't they? What constitutes s a luxury for you and I is an extravagance for somebody living in a corrugated tin shack in Central America who can't even afford shoes.

I am not talking about living in monk's cells and living off of iron rations. I'm pretty sure Zeekloid isn't either. Don't get misled by bailey's outburst, the idea is that everyone should be able to be comfortable, probably more comfortable than we are now.

But let's not kid ourselves that we don't benefit from imperialism, those of us here who live in First World nations. The extent to which consumer goods are available cheaply here in the US or in Europe is largely due to the extremity of labor exploitation, and the blatant misuse and corrupt allocation of natural resources from the Third World. What do you think is going to happen when we distribute those resources and that labor a little more equitably?

Frankly (and I'm not directing this at you, Scarlet) I think it's a bit selfish and contrary to the spirit of internationalism to be concerned about whether or not we're going to get to drive Ferrari's and wear silk everyday when you consider how fucked up the human conditions for so many other people are right now.

[RadioRaheem84]

They work 42 hours but I am sure they have the relaxation of knowing that they have housing and food, and I am sure they must've worked out some sort of medical plan or something.

Imagine working 42-50 hours, with little pay and a crappy health insurance program to boot.

This commune is not perfect by a mile, but it shows that there is a response out there to capitalism.

[chegitz guevara]

Would this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freetown_Christiania) count?

From everything I've read, Christiana is more libertarian than communal, more entrepreneurial than industrial.

[4 Leaf Clover]

Very interesting story :)

And it all went well , until one day , a Trotskyist appeared in village waving with some sort of propaganda

[The Douche]

They work 42 hours but I am sure they have the relaxation of knowing that they have housing and food, and I am sure they must've worked out some sort of medical plan or something.

Imagine working 42-50 hours, with little pay and a crappy health insurance program to boot.

This commune is not perfect by a mile, but it shows that there is a response out there to capitalism.

Most young workers w/o dependents, if they work 40 or more hours a week will be able to afford an apartment, clothes, food, and some luxuries here and there. I make enough and work around 30 hours a week, and I don't even have a high school diploma. I live week to week, but thats mostly cause of my wastefulness.

If I was working 40 hours a week (and they seem to be working much harder than I do) then I would expect a much better/more comfortable life than is provided in their commune.

But for real, working 42 hours a week? Nah, no thank you, sorry.