Local elections in Greece

[FSL]

Local elections were held in Greece on Sunday. They 've been dominating a large number of the discussions here these past few weeks as we're 6 months in our IMF-EU sponsored austerity programme.
I'll mention the results and then add some comments.


Abstained: 39%

Among those votes that were valid (5% of them weren't):
The governing Pasok 34%
The rightist-populist ND 32%
KKE 11%
The far-right LAOS 5%
Syriza 4,5%

The Greens had a respectable showing and so did Democratic Left (don't let the name fool you)

Also, Antarsya, the coalition that includes the greek version of SWP, went quite well and reached 1,7% of the national vote, up from 0,3% a year ago.



Now, some comments.
One thing is the abstention. It's not really that high. With a population of 11 million we have 10 million registered voters, lots of whom are people who immigrated to other countries decades ago and have been dead for quite a while.
Still, it's 10% higher than what it was a year ago. In many cases, it represents a "withdrawal from corrupt politics". In that way, many adopt a rightist approach thinking that "there's nothing wrong with the whole system, but those on top are ruining it" and a nihilist approach regarding our ability to change things.
It might also mean that people reject the parliamentary representative democracy and are instead opting for self-governance

I'd say that it's much more of the first and much less of the second but anyway.


Regarding the two major bourgeois parties. Greece has had a very strong two-party system for decades now, just a bit less strong probably compared to the one in the UK. In the 2004 elections these two parties put together gained 86% of the votes. Now they're standing on 66% and with a much higher abstention.
Pasok, that was elected with the same "Obama/Messiah" effect a year ago, has lost most of its charm among workers. Many are voting it simply because they are terrified from all the propaganda that flies around. Without a strong Pasok we'd go bankrupt, people wouldn't get payed, bank accounts would freeze etc. This is what you read in most newspapers, what you see in every TV station. Still, Pasok lost more than a million votes and went down 10%.
ND has adopted a populist anti-IMF rhetoric, one that is of course as fake as it gets. It also lost half a million votes and also went 1% but boasts on getting closer to Pasok.


Now to the Communist Party or KKE. It is one of the few that gained an increased number of votes as well as improving its share of the electorate. In fact the only one along with Antarsya.
It went from 517000 votes to nearly 600.000 and from 7.5% to 11%. It fared especially well in Attiki (mainly Athens and its suburbs) where its share reaches 14,5%.

That is a good thing but it also means that any efforts must be doubled or tripled. There are many more workers who need to be convinced that, if put in charge of society, their life will improve. Other than simply showing that a number of people is -at a time like this- showing trust at the very least to the CP, it's also a stepping stone. Now the bourgeois argument that "The things you propose keep getting rejected" weakens.



When it comes to Syriza, they didn't do too badly but I think that at least those that have the upper hand in there, are taking the coalition further away to the right. Their candidate for Attiki was a member of Pasok who pretty much wants the Prime Minister to "change his mind, as he is a noble person that cares for the simple man".


And Antarsya probably managed to leech some of those among Syriza's "left" wing. I still think it has rightist positions, for example it only opposes participation in the Eurozone and effectively wishes Greece remains a bourgeois state "blessed" with a government fighting for workers' interests. It went from 30.000 votes to a bit less than a 100.000, keeping in mind though that the many small leftist parties (like the maoist KKE ml) didn't run at all.


Lastly, Golden Dawn who descibe themselves as "popular nationalists" and essentially are neonazis got their first representative in the city council of Athens, with 5% of the votes.
Some of it is because LAOS, the main and establishment-friendlier anti-immigrant party, didn't run a candidate for Athens but still it is worrying.
Some neighbourhoods of Athens, especially where people in the real-estate business want prices to drop, are being turned to ghettos and not only because of immigrants but also because of Greeks suffering from social exclusion.
To some degree, I think we should be expecting things like that.


Well, that is all regarding the elections. We keep trying to get more people to come closer to our positions and we'll see just how far we can go.

[F9]

10 out of 11 millions voted?:confused: Why i was seeing different things?Or it was on different thing? I have read that abstain combined with empty, and invalid, reached 50%. Now, who is wrong, you or the other?:confused::blink:

[Delenda Carthago]

The biggest winner of the elections was abstention.In some cases it was up to 58% and in Athens it was something like 50% with 10% white or false vote.

KKE grew bigger.Specially in Athens,it got up to 14%,which is 100% up for it.

The leftist coalition ANTARSYA got 2.5% in Athens(they got 0.5% in the last elections)

In general, the leftist groups that are not in the parliament got up to 100.000 votes

On the other hand,Golden Dawn neonazi gang got up to 5%,even though they are not anywhere except Agios Panteleimonas.That was the worse thing of the elections.

[FSL]

10 out of 11 millions voted?:confused: Why i was seeing different things?Or it was on different thing? I have read that abstain combined with empty, and invalid, reached 50%. Now, who is wrong, you or the other?:confused::blink:
There are 10 million registered voters (more like 8-9 really but we can'y be sure). About 6 million people showed up at the polls.

[RedPersonality]

http://inter.kke.gr/AboutGreece/greekgi/2010ekloges

[Wanted Man]

Regarding the two major bourgeois parties. Greece has had a very strong two-party system for decades now, just a bit less strong probably compared to the one in the UK. In the 2004 elections these two parties put together gained 86% of the votes. Now they're standing on 66% and with a much higher abstention.
Pasok, that was elected with the same "Obama/Messiah" effect a year ago, has lost most of its charm among workers. Many are voting it simply because they are terrified from all the propaganda that flies around. Without a strong Pasok we'd go bankrupt, people wouldn't get payed, bank accounts would freeze etc. This is what you read in most newspapers, what you see in every TV station. Still, Pasok lost more than a million votes and went down 10%.

This two-party dynamic, this idea that "Pasok are the lesser evil"; does it play as much of a role in local elections? I mean, it can be expected in national elections, but not so much in local perhaps. That might explain their significant losses.

[Delenda Carthago]

This two-party dynamic, this idea that "Pasok are the lesser evil"; does it play as much of a role in local elections? I mean, it can be expected in national elections, but not so much in local perhaps. That might explain their significant losses.
These local elections had the smell of national elections.From the one hand,it was a test for PASOK's politics about the IMF(only PASOK and far right LAOS are pro-IMF,even the right wing ND is against it-or not so much but whatever) so everybody was talking more on the national issues of the economy than the local ones.

The other thing is that GAP,the prime minister,said that if the elections turn bad for the goverment,we will go on early national elections.So in a way,he blackmailed people to vote him in order to keep things...in order.Even so,only 2/10 of greeks voted for PASOK but he still considered this a victory...

[Honggweilo]

Dear comrades of KKE



The National Council of the Workers' Party of Belgium warmly congratulates you on the remarkable increase of 50% obtained by the "People's Rally" in local and regional elections on Sunday, November 7.



Such a result is undoubtedly the result of the organizing and activist work of your revolutionary party as well as its political and tactical line, linking the immediate struggle in conditions of deep crisis in the capitalist system to the only possible perspective, socialism - communism.



With our warm greetings and solidarity in struggle,



On behalf of the National Council of Workers' Party of Belgium



Peter Mertens, President.


WPB statement

[Kiev Communard]

I am curious as to the positions of Antarsya. It seems that they should be more left-wing than SYRIZA or KKE, aren't they?

[Crux]

Greece

Ruling PASOK government suffers big fall in support in Greek elections

www.socialistworld (http://www.%3Cb%3Esocialistworld%3C/b%3E).net, 12/11/2010
website of the committee for a workers' international, CWI
Despite huge working class anger at cuts, the Left parties fail to make real poll gains
Interview with Andreas Payiatsos, Xekinima (http://www.xekinima.org/) (CWI Greece), Athens
http://www.socialistworld.net/img/20101111Grafik5110519184273095185.jpg
Papandreou, the Greek Prime Minister claims that district election results earlier this week show that the Greek people support his policies. What is in your response to this?

Mr Papandreou should pass in history as the greatest liar ever elected to the position of Greek prime minister. In these recent elections, his ruling party, PASOK, lost 1.1 million votes, compared to the 3 million votes that PASOK received only 12 months ago, in last year’s general elections (from 3,012,000 votes to 1,950,000). If this is a victory, then what is a crushing defeat?
Have also in mind that this result is the outcome of on outright blackmail by the prime minister. In the run-up to the elections he repeatedly threatened that if the results of the local elections were not positive for the government, he would call for general elections before the end of this year. This was an indication of his real worry, not to say panic, of a possible catastrophe for the ruling partly - an attempt to rally those that voted PASOK in last year’s elections.
Did the opposition parties gain from PASOK’s decline in support?

New Democracy (ND), the main opposition, bourgeois party, also lost massively. It fell from 2,095,000 votes to 1,750,000 - i.e. it lost 550,000 votes. The funny thing is that both ND and PASOK talk of victory!
In absolute numbers, the two parties of the ruling class, PASOK and ND together, got 3,700,000 votes, in an electoral constituency of 9,750,000 voters, i.e. they got a total of 37.9%. This is the lowest percentage registered since PASOK and ND were established as mass parties in the late 1970’s.
The collapse of their vote is a very positive phenomenon. The problem is that the parties of the Left did not grow and did not provide a way out for the desperate and angry Greek masses. The forces of the Left remained fundamentally stagnant.
Does this include all the parties of the Left?

It affects the Left in general, but in different ways. SYRIZA (Coalition of the Radical Left) for example, received 4.5% of the vote, around the same as at the general election in October, last year, but in reality had an absolute drop in votes - 73,000 in total. The crisis inside SYRIZA is deep and will continue.
The Communist Party (KKE), won 75,000 votes but this represents a very small increase in its forces; less than 1% of the electoral body and an increase of about 13% in relation to what it got in last year’s elections. This, under different conditions, could be perhaps considered as progress. But given the scale of the crisis which is shaking Greek society to its roots, given the massive attack against the living standards and rights of the Greek workers, this is “nothing”.
The only left force which grew is the Anti-capitalist Alliance. This attracted the main bulk of the protest vote left over, particularly from disappointed SYRIZA voters. It grew from 25,000 votes in 2009 to 95,000 votes – an increase of nearly 400%.
This percentage, which is around 2% of the national vote, can be used, theoretically, to bring about major changes in the Greek Left, and the Greek working class movement, but the condition for this is that the groups involved in the Anti-capitalist Alliance (about 10 groups, most of them of Maoist orientation, and also including the sections of the USFI and the IST in Greece) take a serious approach to the working class issues and avoid the sectarianism and political arrogance that generally characterizes them. We cannot be very optimistic over this perspective.
Is ‘abstention’ the real winner of the elections?

This is indeed the case. Abstention reached staggering levels, particularly in the main city centers. The general abstention rate was 40% but in Athens, for example, it reached 57% of the vote and in Piraeus 55%! This is “unheard of” - not only because of the high politicization of Greek society but also because voting in Greece is compulsory by law!
Extremely high, also, were ‘blank’ and ‘white’ votes – in the district of Attica, for example, that includes Athens and Pireas, blank and white votes reached 9%!
If you take this into consideration, the common candidate of New Democracy and LAOS ( a populist far right party) in Athens received 13.8% of the votes of people eligible to cast and the “successful” PASOK candidate received 11.2%! In Pireas, PASOK came first, with 12.4% of the electoral body and the ND second, with 9.7%.
SYRIZA is in crisis - how was that manifested in the elections?

First, of all there was a drop in the absolute number of votes in the midst of the most catastrophic crisis faced by the Greek working class – and when the Left should offer the way out and thus see its forces grow and multiply. Second, SYRIZA stood divided in a number of cities and districts. For example, in Attica, there were two candidates – one, a member of PASOK, Mitropoulos, supported by SYN (Synaspismos - the major party in the alliance) alone and the other represented by Alavanos (the previous president of SYN) and supported by the Maoist KOE and the ‘state-capitalist’ DEA [a pro-“Trotskyist” grouping that split from the Greek section of the IST - British SWP]. The majority of the members of the Central Secretariat of Syriza, about 10, including two of the SYRIZA MPs, distanced themselves from both warring factions, by trying to develop a ‘third pole’ inside SYRIZA, based on principles and not sectarian ambitions, and on a programme to the left of the existing Syriza programme. The CWI in Greece, Xekinima (http://www.xekinima.org/), played an energetic part in this effort.
Both Alavanos and Mitropoulos did extremely badly in the elections. The former receiving only 2.2% and the latter 6,.2%. This is a defeat for both sides, though of course the low results for SYRIZA represent a set-back, in general, and this has negative effects on the development of the movement.
What are the prospects for the working class movement?

Before we go to this we need to mention that one of the most important results of the elections is the rise of the neo-fascist Chrysi Avgi (‘Golden Dawn’). They got about 10,000 votes and over 5% in Athens, and in some neighbourhoods between 15 and 20 %. They did not stand nationally, but only in four areas – this is an indication of their weakness on a national basis but in the areas they stood they got a very high vote. Part of it, of course, is protest vote, but the situation is dangerous. This group is not a far right populist organization but an openly pro-Nazi one, using knives and iron bars in their daily “political” activities and campaigns. It is about time the mass parties of the Left woke up to the danger that neo-fascism represents, particularly in conditions of severe economic and social crisis.
As regards the working class movement, as we have mentioned in previous articles on the CWI website the central leadership of the Greek trade union movement has decided to wind up the movement against the Pasok governments deep austerity cuts. In these conditions, this amounts to open betrayal – thus the president of the Greek trade union federation, the General Confederation of Unions (GSEE), is becoming a hated figure in the movement. However, even he has been forced, under the pressure from below, to call for another general strike on the 15 December. Of course, it is called to let off steam and the leadership will, in effect, undermine the general strike. They do not want it to be a success, so that they can then claim that workers are not willing to fight.
In the meantime, of course, struggles continue. There are numerous struggles endlessly by workers in various companies which sack workers or close down workplaces. We in the CWI in Greece, in Xekinima (http://www.xekinima.org/), are involved in a number of such struggles, like the struggle against the mass sackings by Aldi, the multinational supermarket chain based in Germany.
The public sector continuous to be in turmoil, as the government seems to be encouraged by the Con-Dem government butchers in Britain to massacre jobs.
Around this time, the most important processes are centred in the universitie, where there is a lot of fervent developing, not only among students but also among university teachers. Xekinima (http://www.xekinima.org/) has produced thousands of leaflets for a mass campaign in the universities, calling for strikes and occupations, for the building of an all-education front and for linking the movement of the youth to the general movement of the working class, to get rid of this government and their policies.

[Enragé]

I am curious as to the positions of Antarsya. It seems that they should be more left-wing than SYRIZA or KKE, aren't they?

well they are a combination of SEK (SWP sister org) and NAR (New Left Current). The SEK ofcourse is cliffite/trotskyite. The NAR is 'neo-marxist' or something. Both are revolutionary. Though the platform on which they run is probably less extreme than the ideologies of both parties, they're definitely alot more to the left than SYRIZA or KKE. The name means 'Mutiny' i think btw. But somebody from greece can probably explain better.

[FSL]

well they are a combination of SEK (SWP sister org) and NAR (New Left Current). The SEK ofcourse is cliffite/trotskyite. The NAR is 'neo-marxist' or something. Both are revolutionary. Though the platform on which they run is probably less extreme than the ideologies of both parties, they're definitely alot more to the left than SYRIZA or KKE. The name means 'Mutiny' i think btw. But somebody from greece can probably explain better.
Yes, the name does mean Mutiny, though it's actually the initials of the party's real -and rather long and awkward- name "Anticapitalist Left Cooperation to Overthrow" (chosen exactly for having these intials).
If I wanted to be mean, I'd say that things like that are done to appeal to their supporters, who are mostly students. But I'd hate to be mean.


NAR isn't simply "neomarxist". It's all over the place. One of its prominent members even wanted to offer support to Syriza's canditate for the Attiki elections (an ex-Pasok "old-labor type" member). Others are -or feel- closer to anarchists. The party itself started out as a split from KKE's youth section 2 decades ago but few people remain from those days.



Their platform proposes we leave the Euro and return to a national currency and stop servicing our debt while nationalizing the banking sector to avoid capital flight.
Essentially, they propose a "more radical" administration of capitalism. Anyone who think that that's revolutionary or left or whatever, I'd say he's mistaken

[Delenda Carthago]

Yes, the name does mean Mutiny, though it's actually the initials of the party's real -and rather long and awkward- name "Anticapitalist Left Cooperation to Overthrow" (chosen exactly for having these intials).
If I wanted to be mean, I'd say that things like that are done to appeal to their supporters, who are mostly students. But I'd hate to be mean.


NAR isn't simply "neomarxist". It's all over the place. One of its prominent members even wanted to offer support to Syriza's canditate for the Attiki elections (an ex-Pasok "old-labor type" member). Others are -or feel- closer to anarchists. The party itself started out as a split from KKE's youth section 2 decades ago but few people remain from those days.



Their platform proposes we leave the Euro and return to a national currency and stop servicing our debt while nationalizing the banking sector to avoid capital flight.
Essentially, they propose a "more radical" administration of capitalism. Anyone who think that that's revolutionary or left or whatever, I'd say he's mistaken
NAR has so many splinter groups in its which is indeed all over the place.
SEK, I think its more of what people in Europe think as left:European Social Forum,stupid "party like"slogans,pacifism,and I think their newspaper is only good for whiping your ass with.They even supported PASOK in the 90s("PASOK without illusions" was their slogan).


The situation with ANTARSYA is that its a more democratic party than KKE,but in the crisis its stance is not as radical as KKE's.Matter of fact,they accuse KKE for leaving all the answers for after the revolution and they propose that in order to get in a revolutionary road,you have to have answers for today.

http://www.antarsya.org/

[FSL]

The situation with ANTARSYA is that its a more democratic party than KKE,but in the crisis its stance is not as radical as KKE's.Matter of fact,they accuse KKE for leaving all the answers for after the revolution and they propose that in order to get in a revolutionary road,you have to have answers for today.

http://www.antarsya.org/

It's not more democratic, it's just not democratic centralist.

Regarding their "accusations": Having answers for today means what really?
Deciding whether it's the financial or the industrial capital that gets more pain? Whether we should nationalize banks and offer cheap loans to businesses to have growth or whether we should adopt austerity measures and hurt industrialists by reducing demand?
Maybe deciding whether we want to consider ourselves part of the european bourgeoisie or adopt a new curency, devaluate it and go on exporting?


Antarsya (and that line of thought, the one that blames the bankers, ethe currency, "cazino capitalism and the financial mafia", golden boys etc) offers no solution for workers because, for as long as we have capitalism, there can be no solution for them. They will always be on the bottom supporting those on top.
It does offer a solution for sections of the greek capital. Those businessmen who are also burdened by the deep recession as they lose customers and who would -if Antarsya's proposals were enacted- be getting cheap money from the nationalized banks to invest it and then export their cheap, devalued products to Germany.


What workers can do now is demand better wages, a different tax polixy that would increase income and company taxes and decrease consumption taxes, a reduction in the price of basic amenities etc.
And, while doing that, also build an alliance with other strata in our society who are equally marginalized, like shopkeepers or farmers, that could even claim power.
That is the real solution. Saying they should elect a "good government" that will make capitalism better is just cheating them.




And something relevant I read in the party's paper yesterday roughly translated



Our opponents, and with particular emphasis on all sorts of opportunists, accuse us -and not without a touch of irony- that we often dream and subjugate all to a new assault on the Winter Palace.

We, comrades, we never hide our intentions, nor renounce this great achievement.

The storming of the Winter Palace inspires us and teaches us, like the raid on the sky of the Communards of Paris, like any other genuine popular uprising.

Their sly tricks in nothing will affect us because we all know that each new step, every leap forward, the revolutions of the future will have their own originality, will be unique and unrepeatable in their manifestation as well as in the conditions that will lead to them.

One thing is certain. They will be socialist in content. This is exactly what they don't wanting, what they fear, what they are hostile to and want to avoid at all costs.

[Delenda Carthago]

It's not more democratic, it's just not democratic centralist.

Regarding their "accusations": Having answers for today means what really?
Deciding whether it's the financial or the industrial capital that gets more pain? Whether we should nationalize banks and offer cheap loans to businesses to have growth or whether we should adopt austerity measures and hurt industrialists by reducing demand?
Maybe deciding whether we want to consider ourselves part of the european bourgeoisie or adopt a new curency, devaluate it and go on exporting?


Antarsya (and that line of thought, the one that blames the bankers, ethe currency, "cazino capitalism and the financial mafia", golden boys etc) offers no solution for workers because, for as long as we have capitalism, there can be no solution for them. They will always be on the bottom supporting those on top.
It does offer a solution for sections of the greek capital. Those businessmen who are also burdened by the deep recession as they lose customers and who would -if Antarsya's proposals were enacted- be getting cheap money from the nationalized banks to invest it and then export their cheap, devalued products to Germany.


What workers can do now is demand better wages, a different tax polixy that would increase income and company taxes and decrease consumption taxes, a reduction in the price of basic amenities etc.
And, while doing that, also build an alliance with other strata in our society who are equally marginalized, like shopkeepers or farmers, that could even claim power.
That is the real solution. Saying they should elect a "good government" that will make capitalism better is just cheating them.




And something relevant I read in the party's paper yesterday roughly translated

Dude,I agree with KKE on this one.I didnt say I was pro-ANTARSYA on their stance.But KKE is not democratic at all,and in this one you cant say much.

[FSL]

Dude,I agree with KKE on this one.I didnt say I was pro-ANTARSYA on their stance.But KKE is not democratic at all,and in this one you cant say much.
I didn't argue against you, I argued against them.

I could argue against you on "just how democratic the CP is" but it will get me nowhere.