Propaganda Campaign

[Amphictyonis]

I'm not sure if this simple idea has been brought up before, I'm not even sure if it's a good idea but seeing how the "Ron Paul" silliness caught on before the 2008 elections online and the impact it's had on the political culture today I think it MIGHT be a good idea.

What do you guys think about having certain posters from RevLeft (who agree on what socialism is) posting on liberal/democrat/mainstream forums with the goal of making actual socialism a viable topic online within the mainstream websites? Not the Tea Party version of socialism but Marxism/Anarchism.

I would think hostile debate would be counter productive so the more patient posters would be best. It would probably decrease the activity on RevLeft but we can also invite liberals over here to learn. I know the internet is not 'serious business' but in many ways it does seem to be replacing the community- I don't think, by a long shot, we should not go out in the community but perhaps during this crisis we've been dropping the ball- perhaps we should use all avenues available (in order to spread class consciousness)?


Ten or fifteen dedicated Marxists/Anarchists who are respectful and friendly could probably plant the seed of class awareness in a couple hundred peoples minds. A sort of 'online' vanguard ;) Not to be taken too seriously but with the intention of chipping away at the false paradigm the bourgeois have been enjoying for decades (The Democrat/Republican game).


Do any of you think it's a decent idea and if so what liberal sites would be good to visit? If you don't think it' a good idea don't worry, I wont be offended :)

[Manic Impressive]

I don't see why not and I'd be willing to help. I'm not a yank though so don't know if you only want Americans. I'm not sure how successful it will be but even if one person recognizes the truth or begins to think differently then it'll be worth it ;)

[¿Que?]

I'll give it a shot. This idea has come up before. I think doing propaganda missions on the net is not a bad idea. I think if we manage 5 people that'll be plenty. My suggestions would be either Daily Kos or TYT comments section on YouTube (although I hear YouTube is horrible for debate). Those two are the leading liberal internet hotspots, currently I think. I can't think of others, although I know I'm forgetting some.

As a strategy, we should not forget the value of PM. Rather than go off half cocked, we should have a strategy. Like one or two take the lead, the rest sort of sit back. When the argument gets heated, that's when everybody else chimes in, but everyone should already know what everybody else is going to say so that there are no screw ups. As a tactical approach, we could coordinate disagreements between us on purpose, simply to confuse and to add to credibility.

That's my 2¢.

[Manic Impressive]

Nice tactics instead of PM i'd suggest IRC or MSN or something

[Amphictyonis]

I'll give it a shot. This idea has come up before. I think doing propaganda missions on the net is not a bad idea. I think if we manage 5 people that'll be plenty. My suggestions would be either Daily Kos or TYT comments section on YouTube (although I hear YouTube is horrible for debate). Those two are the leading liberal internet hotspots, currently I think. I can't think of others, although I know I'm forgetting some.

As a strategy, we should not forget the value of PM. Rather than go off half cocked, we should have a strategy. Like one or two take the lead, the rest sort of sit back. When the argument gets heated, that's when everybody else chimes in, but everyone should already know what everybody else is going to say so that there are no screw ups. As a tactical approach, we could coordinate disagreements between us on purpose, simply to confuse and to add to credibility.

That's my 2¢.

I'd go with DailyKos over youtube. I'm not sure we'd have to be subversive, just very polite. Debate seems to involve ego's and I'm not sure if heated debate with liberals will do the trick. It will probably be unavoidable but I was thinking, to start, we could critique current events/politics from a socialist perspective with the intention of helping to re-frame the issues from a further left perspective rather than the current paradigm of Democrats (liberals) against Tea Party people (Republicans).

I think we need to step up pressure on liberals. If they're being attacked from both socialists and Tea Party people I think they may be more likely to adopt some socialist ideals rather than become more conservative.

[Manic Impressive]

I would say that having a strategy is the way to go I tried something like this before during our general election on a facebook page for the liberal democrats. We went in without a plan and were met by 5 committed liberals who all knew exactly what they were doing.

[L.A.P.]

I'm sure a lot of people would disagree but I am for the most part a pretty patient and calm guy when it comes to debate and I'm willing to take part on this. Conservatives do this type of stuff all the time, they go on forums completely irrelevant to politics and spread their messages and it worked for a while.

[L.A.P.]

How about politicalforum.com? It would be one hell of a challenge and if things got really hostile we could just put in links to the thread so other members of RevLeft could help out. I think this could work!

[WeAreReborn]

I would be willing to help out. I occasionally debate on youtube but I don't see much hope there. It is filled with the most intellectually void people ever. But I am down to help on whatever it may be regardless..

[¿Que?]

@Amphictyonis (http://www.revleft.com/vb/member.php?u=30649), we can agree that our tactic needs be patient and non confrontational, that still doesn't preclude the necessity for strategizing a bit. At the very least, having an idea of what everyone will contribute beforehand, and also keeping communication through back-end channels: pm, irc, whatever.

I've never taken part in anything like this, but to me it only makes sense. There's going to be thousands of them, and 5 of us. As revolutionaries, we can't afford to be myopic.

[¿Que?]

Nice tactics instead of PM i'd suggest IRC or MSN or something
Revleft has a very nice IRC channel btw.

[Ocean Seal]

Great idea, but I don't think that we should stop at just liberal forums, entering conservative forums would give us an edge if we managed to divide and conquer. There are a lot of workers on both sides so we should keep an open mind. I say we organize for implementing our agenda on both liberal and conservative forums. Anyone know any good conservative forums? Or liberal ones for that matter?

[WeAreReborn]

I just found this forum by a google search.
http://www.republicanoperative.com/
Read some of the posts and I wanted to laugh and throw up at the same time. Noone seems to oppose their idiotic ideals, at least the threads I clicked on so maybe we can change that?

[L.A.P.]

I'm still enthusiastic about going on www.politicalforum.com, and if we're going to do this I think it needs to be posted in a thread when one of our members goes on another forum, especially ones like republicanoperative.com, so we can all chip in and help. We also should do it one at a time so we don't have 20 different threads of people asking for help on other forums and then no one to help them while they're being flamed.

[Manic Impressive]

I just found this forum by a google search.
http://www.republicanoperative.com/
Read some of the posts and I wanted to laugh and throw up at the same time. Noone seems to oppose their idiotic ideals, at least the threads I clicked on so maybe we can change that?
WOW did you check out the conspiracy theory thread? I didn't get what people were saying before about the right being obsessed with conspiracy theories.


Revleft has a very nice IRC channel btw.What server is it on? and is it #revleft? I have to install something to access it through the forum.

[¿Que?]

What server is it on? and is it #revleft? I have to install something to access it through the forum.
The revleft server is irc.revleft.com last time I used it. Port 667. I think you have to register your nick. Mine isn't registered because I changed it a while back ago. Yes, to access through your browser you have to install Java or something. It's better to get a chat client. mIRC for windows is best, minerva for Macintosh. On Linux just about any client will work I think. I think mIRC is shareware, so there will be restrictions or a time limit. Maybe there's a free client for windows, I don't know.

[WeAreReborn]

I'm still enthusiastic about going on politicalforum.com, and if we're going to do this I think it needs to be posted in a thread when one of our members goes on another forum, especially ones like republicanoperative.com, so we can all chip in and help. We also should do it one at a time so we don't have 20 different threads of people asking for help on other forums and then no one to help them while they're being flamed.
Yeah I must agree with you. It seems like that would be the most effective way to deal with it.

WOW did you check out the conspiracy theory thread? I didn't get what people were saying before about the right being obsessed with conspiracy theories.
Not until this post but you are right. That is insane.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Polls from the last election show equal dissatisfaction with both mainstream parties in the US, so I think people could be receptive to an argument about how we have 2 parties but both are the tools of 1 ruling class. The fact that both parties argue for austerity and Bush and Obama equally gave billions of dollars to the banks, makes our argument hit home for more people right now. Also I think the "post-partisan" stuff that the parties are talking about now will backfire since neither party has any real answers other than austerity and misery for the working class.

Edit: both parties are pushing austerity and misery for the working class.

[Amphictyonis]

I would say that having a strategy is the way to go I tried something like this before during our general election on a facebook page for the liberal democrats. We went in without a plan and were met by 5 committed liberals who all knew exactly what they were doing.

There is no such thing as a liberal who knows what they're doing :)

(EDIT) no offense to liberals, I was a liberal at one time.

[Amphictyonis]

@Amphictyonis (http://www.revleft.com/vb/member.php?u=30649),
I've never taken part in anything like this, but to me it only makes sense. There's going to be thousands of them, and 5 of us. As revolutionaries, we can't afford to be myopic.


RedBrother Great idea, but I don't think that we should stop at just liberal forums, entering conservative forums would give us an edge if we managed to divide and conquer.El Vagoneta- I see you point and I haven't ever tried to do any sort of online "activism" as well. I put activism in quotes because I believe in face to face community action but I was pondering the whole Ron Paul paleoconervative thing that happened in 2007-8. I was on one of their forums and some of the bourgeois "organizers" for freedomworks were talking about using leftist tactics for right wing causes (lets use theirs...a socialist money bomb?). Someone just posted a thread about <that here on RevLeft and it made me think about doing some sort of silly online campaign like they did with Ron Paul. It obviously wouldn't be a cult of personality thing....more so "community outreach" in a 21'st century kinda way. (we waist so much time "debating" eachother on socialist sites- it can be constructive though).

Why don't we take our time with this, be out in the open (nothing subversive) and take a loose vote on which site to visit. Correct me if I'm wrong but if we do a silly online propaganda campaign I don't think we should be subversive or rude. Lets just be ourselves, be totally accessible and relaxed. Thick skinned even....in a sort of 'set an example' kinda way. If debate does happen then, yes, lets PM each other for purposes of solidarity, in case one of us either gets stumped or out of line :)

This doesn't have to be some cyber warrior take the internet too seriously thing but consider it more of an experiment surrounding the potential of social networking sites. In my opinion patience and respect is key because you know as well as I the internet is full of endless debate with no end. We should try to steer clear of that. Perhaps pick some topics such as unemployment, structural adjustments, war etc...the big issues- perhaps save the hard core socialist theory for RevLeft? If anything, so long as we are patient and respectful it will be good PR for RevLeft?

[razboz]

Just a thought: liberals, conservatives and assorted capitalists, religionists and fascists have been trying to do this to revleft for years now. That's what the OI forum is for.

[L.A.P.]

Yeah I must agree with you. It seems like that would be the most effective way to deal with it.

Not until this post but you are right. That is insane.

If we go through with this then this thread should be stickeyed.

[Manic Impressive]

So I was thinking the best way to convince someone is to come at it from their perspective. So what are the current trends at the moment in the U.S.? I hear a lot about how people don't like big government, we should explain that our end goal is to abolish government completely in favour of communities run by the community, they might like that.

I've never been on the centre ground so maybe you guys can come up with some other ones.

[L.A.P.]

So I was thinking the best way to convince someone is to come at it from their perspective. So what are the current trends at the moment in the U.S.? I hear a lot about how people don't like big government, we should explain that our end goal is to abolish government completely in favour of communities run by the community, they might like that.

I've never been on the centre ground so maybe you guys can come up with some other ones.

I agree, before anyone starts attacking us we should first state the goals of all communists/socialists/anarchists; to create a classless and stateless society. Also, have it established that Anarchists are aligned with Communists in their beliefs.

[L.A.P.]

by the way, I'm having trouble registering with www.politicalforum.com because the picture for verification code is just a pretty picture of water instead of numbers and letters. So I think we should go to www.arguewitheveryone.com instead and it also has more users online.

[WeAreReborn]

by the way, I'm having trouble registering with www.politicalforum.com (http://www.politicalforum.com) because the picture for verification code is just a pretty picture of water instead of numbers and letters. So I think we should go to www.arguewitheveryone.com (http://www.arguewitheveryone.com) instead and it also has more users online.
Sounds good to me, I tried to make an account on politicalforum as well but same thing happened.

So I was thinking the best way to convince someone is to come at it from their perspective. So what are the current trends at the moment in the U.S.? I hear a lot about how people don't like big government, we should explain that our end goal is to abolish government completely in favour of communities run by the community, they might like that.
You are right that America wants minimal government. They are sick of the current system but don't know what change to go to without being too radical and they think Communism and Socialism are evil, and if you mention Anarchy with that you are crazy! So if we can bash down these preconceptions I think the convincing part will be easy.

[WeAreReborn]

by the way, I'm having trouble registering with www.politicalforum.com (http://www.politicalforum.com) because the picture for verification code is just a pretty picture of water instead of numbers and letters. So I think we should go to www.arguewitheveryone.com (http://www.arguewitheveryone.com) instead and it also has more users online.
Turns out you need 50 posts in private to post in public, and unfortunately it is mostly about religion. So we should all make accounts and just post some short sentences or w/e. Also would making this a group help with organization?

[Property Is Robbery]

Sounds like a great idea :thumbup1:

[iwwforever]

I did that 10 years ago with the abortion debate. While some people were polite and receptive to my pro choice comments, it gets pretty ugly dealing with the right. If your argument makes too much sense they send your computer a virus.:(

To turn even one right winger would make a big difference to the cause. Just remember, for the most part these are not rational people and they will not give the thoughtful debate we are used to engaging in at revleft. Buy some aspirin for the headache you will get and update your virus software!

[L.A.P.]

Turns out you need 50 posts in private to post in public, and unfortunately it is mostly about religion. So we should all make accounts and just post some short sentences or w/e. Also would making this a group help with organization?

As of right now I'm just posting one sentence smart-ass remarks. I'm Luck19
http://www.arguewitheveryone.com/private-general-discussion/154906-seperation-church-state-big-lie-what-4.html

I'm not liking this forum too much as it is overrun by white nationalists and christian fundamentalists. So I think this forum would be better although there aren't nearly as many members. It's interesting because they have moderators for specific views; Fascist, Conservative, Libertarian, Centrist, Liberal, and Socialist.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/forum.php

[Amphictyonis]

I'm not thinking of 'converting' any Tea Party type conservatives I'm thinking of hitting one of if not the biggest liberal web sites with an influx of reality. To be extremely critical of the Democrat party.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/ny-times-reporter-confirm_b_500999.html

^ Issues such as this can be discussed, structural unemployment, war, the effects of western usury on the third world...basic obvious stuff, or at least obvious injustices to us. I'm thinking Daily Kos or another major liberal gathering point online.

[L.A.P.]

I'm not thinking of 'converting' any Tea Party type conservatives I'm thinking of hitting one of if not the biggest liberal web sites with an influx of reality. To be extremely critical of the Democrat party.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/ny-times-reporter-confirm_b_500999.html

^ Issues such as this can be discussed, structural unemployment, war, the effects of western usury on the third world...basic obvious stuff, or at least obvious injustices to us. I'm thinking Daily Kos or another major liberal gathering point online.

I would definitely prefer a forum website, not so much a news one.
www.topix.com seems like a good one especially considering the registration doesn't give you shit and it has a huge membership.

[Peace on Earth]

I believe it would be more productive converting those from the left than from the right. A better possibility for actual discussion, with less hatred for socialism/communism.

I'd love to take to DailyKos or Huffington Post and spread the message.

[WeAreReborn]

I would definitely prefer a forum website, not so much a news one.
www.topix.com (http://www.topix.com) seems like a good one especially considering the registration doesn't give you shit and it has a huge membership.
Well I agree on Huffington post, it is much too specific to really make good relevant points but topix for me just goes to San Diego, as it is the nearest big city, so it may not work for everyone unless we all just use the same zip code.

[x371322]

Some thoughts:

I like this. But if we're going to do it, we need to do it right. Not randomly scattered across the web or half assed. Someone needs to create a group for this on here, and keep things organized. Plan each "rendezvous" and stay together. You know, united front, strength in numbers and all that jazz. But don't necessarily acknowledge that we know each other, rather just be there to discuss events like any other poster (Don't make it look planned). The fact that so many socialists are out and about should appear as a coincidence, or better still a sign of the times. And of course no tendency wars between ourselves. We need to stick to common "big" issues we can all agree on. I think this goes without saying, but it might also be best to not be upholding any "dear leaders."

[WeAreReborn]

Some thoughts:
And of course no tendency wars between ourselves. We need to stick to common "big" issues we can all agree on. I think this goes without saying, but it might also be best to not be upholding any "dear leaders."
Oh of course, it would be bad if not other wise we would have a fight about it ourselves. :lol:

[¿Que?]

OK, I'm back sorry for the absence.

1. PM's if you really get in a bind. But not absolutely necessary but not absolutely discouraged either.

2. I think we should hit liberal forums first. A lot of liberals are on the fence about socialism because they don't understand it, but also feel the Democrats are corporate, and may be leaning Green. This is ripe territory for conversion (if that's what we're trying to do).

3. I like making a group for this. Let's try to organize a little. Have polls and such to decide on action.

That's my position. I'm ready to join the users group as soon as someone starts it.

[L.A.P.]

Alright, so if we're going to go on strictly Liberal forums we just need to know which one. Websites like Huffington Post kind of make it hard to have any real conversation because it's not a forum. It's kind of like making comments on YouTube which makes it nearly impossible to debate or converse. Maybe we should try http://liberalforum.org/liberalforum/ however the small amount of membership is still a problem, there is only 18 users online at a time. If a forum has a smaller membership than RevLeft it's pretty small.

[x371322]

however the small amount of membership is still a problem, there is only 18 users online at a time. If a forum has a smaller membership than RevLeft it's pretty small.

That may not actually be a bad thing. It could be better for us to start small, see how things go. As long as it's a forum where people post regularly, we can be sure our presence will be known if they're smaller in number. On the larger forums we might go unnoticed. So instead of one big forum, take on several smaller ones.

Just a thought...

[L.A.P.]

That may not actually be a bad thing. It could be better for us to start small, see how things go. As long as it's a forum where people post regularly, we can be sure our presence will be known if they're smaller in number. On the larger forums we might go unnoticed. So instead of one big forum, take on several smaller ones.

Just a thought...

That's a good point then i think this site would actually be the best candidate for us to go on. Also, I have started conversation on this forum http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-partisan-politics-and-political-platforms/85499-why-has-marxism-never-worked-9.html#post1059094357
I'm Luck19 and I would just like to know if I'm on the right path and any advice anyone has.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/health-care/84361-healthcare-privilege-right-12.html#post1059094370 I made post #117

[¿Que?]

That may not actually be a bad thing. It could be better for us to start small, see how things go. As long as it's a forum where people post regularly, we can be sure our presence will be known if they're smaller in number. On the larger forums we might go unnoticed. So instead of one big forum, take on several smaller ones.

Just a thought...
Czad, since you brought up the group idea, I think you should create the group. Do we all agree on the group idea?

or

Seems like xx1994xx already has something going.

Amphictyonis, what do you think?

I'm going to wait for Amph's response before I go join xx1994xx, but I think that may be a good place to start since it's already underway. Also, WeAreReborn is there too. So that's two votes for let's get this shit rolling.

Last note, I'll probably be incommunicado until tomorrow night. So regardless of what we decide, my involvement may be sporadic.

[x371322]

Well I guess I can create the group. Is everyone okay with that?

[x371322]

Alright I went ahead and created the group. You can find it here:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=612

So... go ahead and join if you'd like to participate.

[L.A.P.]

That's a good point then i think this site would actually be the best candidate for us to go on. Also, I have started conversation on this forum http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-partisan-politics-and-political-platforms/85499-why-has-marxism-never-worked-9.html#post1059094357
I'm Luck19 and I would just like to know if I'm on the right path and any advice anyone has.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/health-care/84361-healthcare-privilege-right-12.html#post1059094370 I made post #117

I think this is starting off pretty well.

[Stephen Colbert]

I had a nice comment in the "healthcare is a privilege" section. I argue that rights as a concept for equality have continued to expand into new realms, and soon enough health care should become one.

[L.A.P.]

I had a nice comment in the "healthcare is a privilege" section. I argue that rights as a concept for equality have continued to expand into new realms, and soon enough health care should become one.

I thanked it, good post.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Better idea: Spam boring forums with hilarious anarchist memes like "MAKE TOTAL DESTROY" "SOLIDARITY MEANS A SNACK!" and "RAAN LIKE A MOTHERFUCKER!"

When posters don't understand what you're talking about, let loose a barrage of Tiqqun-inspired pomo-gobbledigook, then ask for their snail mail addresses. Send anyone who'll give you their address a cute live-mixed-tape of music being played by you and yr musically inclined (or not) friends. Within the next few years, hop freight trains to their home town, have super-raunchy public sex with them (if they're into sex), and teach them to slash tires.

[homo sapien]

I noticed a lot of people are talking about going to Kos to progagandize... may I recommend firedoglake instead? Basically what's happened in the liberal blogosphere since Obama took office is Kos has taken the position that they are a democratic party blog first and foremost, and generally cheerlead Obama. The more dissident posters who are not satisfied with the pace or direction of change under Obama have migrated to firedoglake, where a lot of people are posting diaries about forming third parties and openly asking questions that take aim at the capitalist system itself.

Along with the WSWS, firedoglake has been a big part of my personal migration from center-left to an as yet vaguely defined socialism. I know I am certainly benefiting from reading threads here, and I think a lot of other firedoglakers would be open to some of the arguments you have to make. It's really a whole site of disillusioned democrats looking to go further left. Take a look and see what you think...

[L.A.P.]

I noticed a lot of people are talking about going to Kos to progagandize... may I recommend firedoglake instead? Basically what's happened in the liberal blogosphere since Obama took office is Kos has taken the position that they are a democratic party blog first and foremost, and generally cheerlead Obama. The more dissident posters who are not satisfied with the pace or direction of change under Obama have migrated to firedoglake, where a lot of people are posting diaries about forming third parties and openly asking questions that take aim at the capitalist system itself.

Along with the WSWS, firedoglake has been a big part of my personal migration from center-left to an as yet vaguely defined socialism. I know I am certainly benefiting from reading threads here, and I think a lot of other firedoglakers would be open to some of the arguments you have to make. It's really a whole site of disillusioned democrats looking to go further left. Take a look and see what you think...

You should go directly to the group and bring this up, this seems like apretty good place to go.

[L.A.P.]

Better idea: Spam boring forums with hilarious anarchist memes like "MAKE TOTAL DESTROY" "SOLIDARITY MEANS A SNACK!" and "RAAN LIKE A MOTHERFUCKER!"

When posters don't understand what you're talking about, let loose a barrage of Tiqqun-inspired pomo-gobbledigook, then ask for their snail mail addresses. Send anyone who'll give you their address a cute live-mixed-tape of music being played by you and yr musically inclined (or not) friends. Within the next few years, hop freight trains to their home town, have super-raunchy public sex with them (if they're into sex), and teach them to slash tires.

This is such a brilliant idea, we should try it!:thumbup: