Are we (human beings) too dumb for the revolution?

[Mo212]

I say this because I've been wondering lately if the population of the world has to reach a sufficient IQ just for the upkeep and advancement of society (morally, ethically, intellectually), for instance who here has the expertise to design microchips? Or a degree in chemistry for material engineering, etc?

I'm wondering if advanced technology like enhanced/augmented intelligence and AI will make the revolution seem like marx's greatest mistake. i.e. socialism will occur through automatically managed systems far beyond the intellectual power of the human being, and humans as we know them today will think traditional aspects of marx's analysis as quite quaint.

When marx wrote, this was well before the rise of the nuclear bomb, intercontinental ballistic missiles, satellites and the theory of relativity. I think as human beings we are vastly under-estimating what technocratic possibilities exist in nature, what would have marx thought if he lived to see the internet?

What I also wonder is that technology leads people to individuate and chase technocratic spectacle (TV, videogames, etc) How much stress and frustration is being redirected into this avenues today as a result of apathy, not caring and a kind of pseudo it doesn't matter nihilism?

[ComradeMan]

You keep confusing intelligence with knowledge.

[William Howe]

"If Socialism can only be realized when the intellectual development of all the people permits it, then we shall not see Socialism for at least five hundred years."

-Vladimir Lenin

[Volcanicity]

As long as Capitalism exists the Working Class will always be exploited and come second,no matter how far advanced technology becomes.

[Bud Struggle]

"If Socialism can only be realized when the intellectual development of all the people permits it, then we shall not see Socialism for at least five hundred years."

-Vladimir Lenin

Lenin was an optimist. :)

[Volcanicity]

Lenin was an optimist. :)
No Lenin was a realist.

[ComradeMan]

Non Lenin was a Leninist.

[Bud Struggle]

Well I think the OP has a point. I have a daughter (Salmonella Struggle) in High School and I (as an astute observer of such things) have been watching my daughter's friends from Middle School slowly reach the limits of their intellectual capacity and readjust their aspirations and dreams in life to coninside with their abilities.

Nothing wrong with that--that's how life works, but very few kids have all that much ability to get beyond the day to day lives that make the world go round. There aren't many high end math kids or science people. Most kids take regular courses and hope to get a B or a C.

Those are those people whose parents live in the apartment buildings and drive the trucks and work in the factories. Nothing wrong with any of that--but those are the people that make up most of the world. They are good Americans and vote on occasion and wouldn't consider Communism or Fascism and as Rebert mention on another thread just like the status quo. If things could get a little better--great, but these people aren't going to go out of their way to move things along.

[ComradeMan]

Well I think the OP has a point. I have a daughter (Salmonella Struggle) in High School and I (as an astute observer of such things) have been watching my daughter's friends from Middle School slowly reach the limits of their intellectual capacity and readjust their aspirations and dreams in life to coninside with their abilities.

Nothing wrong with that--that's how life works, but very few kids have all that much ability to get beyond the day to day lives that make the world go round. There aren't many high end math kids or science people. Most kids take regular courses and hope to get a B or a C.

Those are those people whose parents live in the apartment buildings and drive the trucks and work in the factories. Nothing wrong with any of that--but those are the people that make up most of the world. They are good Americans and vote on occasion and wouldn't consider Communism or Fascism and as Rebert mention on another thread just like the status quo. If things could get a little better--great, but these people aren't going to go out of their way to move things along.


That's why they need bourgeois class traitors like you and I to help them move things along--- comrade! ;)

Seriously, it's not about intelligence but about oppurtunities to apply intelligence. This is no doubt to tied to expectations of life. How many of those people you describe could have been, or could be, Puccinis, Verdis, Mozarts, Einsteins or so on- but we will never know because they were never perhaps given the oppurtunity or encouraged to exploit their latent intelligence?

[Revolution starts with U]

Knowledge != intelligence. Genius is a nonsense word. For that matter, intelligence is a nonsense word. Jefferson was a pretty intelligent guy, not smart enough to free his slaves tho.
Intelligence is cultural. Einstein would have been seen as a loon in 12th ce Italy.

[ComradeMan]

Knowledge != intelligence. Genius is a nonsense word. For that matter, intelligence is a nonsense word. Jefferson was a pretty intelligent guy, not smart enough to free his slaves tho.
Intelligence is cultural. Einstein would have been seen as a loon in 12th ce Italy.

I agree in part- the perception of what is intelligence may well be subject to a cultural bias- hence the problems with IQ tests and all of that.

Einstein would have been burnt at the stake in Medieval Italy- look what happened to Galileo and that was the Renaissance....

[Volcanicity]

Intelligence does'nt matter as long as Capitalism exist's it will alway's be the have's against the have-not's it's as simple as that.

[brigadista]

i thought revolution had to do with the right material conditions???

[RGacky3]

I say this because I've been wondering lately if the population of the world has to reach a sufficient IQ just for the upkeep and advancement of society (morally, ethically, intellectually), for instance who here has the expertise to design microchips? Or a degree in chemistry for material engineering, etc?


The way democracy works is people would choose people who CAN design micro chips to make micro chips.

If your aruging people are too dumb for democracy, what makes you think that dictators are smart enough?

[Bud Struggle]

The way democracy works is people would choose people who CAN design micro chips to make micro chips.

If your aruging people are too dumb for democracy, what makes you think that dictators are smart enough?

Ask the Stalinsts that keep saying the Soviet Union couldn't have been any other way during WWII and survived.

[Ele'ill]

I say this because I've been wondering lately if the population of the world has to reach a sufficient IQ just for the upkeep and advancement of society (morally, ethically, intellectually), for instance who here has the expertise to design microchips? Or a degree in chemistry for material engineering, etc?

We as in the users of this forum called Revleft are not a vanguard that will take over all operations. We're not an invading force. We're members of the community that are working hard to organize and build a better world by sharing social and political ideas and discussing social and political ideas in real life with other people from our communities.


I'm wondering if advanced technology like enhanced/augmented intelligence and AI will make the revolution seem like marx's greatest mistake. i.e. socialism will occur through automatically managed systems far beyond the intellectual power of the human being, and humans as we know them today will think traditional aspects of marx's analysis as quite quaint.


Perhaps I don't understand- is this the way it is now? Nope. Why would it be during and after the revolution?


When marx wrote, this was well before the rise of the nuclear bomb, intercontinental ballistic missiles, satellites and the theory of relativity. I think as human beings we are vastly under-estimating what technocratic possibilities exist in nature, what would have marx thought if he lived to see the internet?

I mean, there were uprisings well before Marx and the technologies of his time- it isn't different- you use what's there and use it to your advantage.


What I also wonder is that technology leads people to individuate and chase technocratic spectacle (TV, videogames, etc) How much stress and frustration is being redirected into this avenues today as a result of apathy, not caring and a kind of pseudo it doesn't matter nihilism?

No, not to the extent that you're talking about- I think without computers and current tv people would be weight lifters and hikers- and escape through that- like most useless progressive liberals. (lol)




Cliffnotes: The same people alive right now in their various occupations with their various talents and skills will be around during and after the revolution and will be able to use their skills and talents etc..

[RGacky3]

Ask the Stalinsts that keep saying the Soviet Union couldn't have been any other way during WWII and survived.

No, because Stalinists are stupid.