Communism & Pornography

[il Commy]

How do you think a socialist goverment should treat pornography? Should pictures and movies of pornography should be totally banded? Should only the trade with such materials be prohibited? Should it all be free?

[elijahcraig]

I'm not against pornography. I'm not sure on this though.

[il Commy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2003, 10:38 PM
I'm not against pornography. I'm not sure on this though.
I'm too, but I think it should not be part of a market. I don't think these women and men should be exploited like that. I think we should treat it lke prostitution - not banning the actual act, banning the payment and commerce.

[elijahcraig]

Well, under socialism, it wouldn't be the same. I think they would have a range of jobs to choose from. If they still choose prostitution or pornography, fine.

[Rastafari]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2003, 06:51 PM
Well, under socialism, it wouldn't be the same. I think they would have a range of jobs to choose from. If they still choose prostitution or pornography, fine.
normal people don't choose to be used sexually.

[elijahcraig]

Who's to say who is normal? If they CHOOSE it they can do it.

And regulation could make it where you're not "used". That is usually the case when a 15 year old runs off to become famous, etc etc etc. Under socialism, this would not exist.

[Felicia]

There's a chick by the name of Felicia Foxx......me and a friend found her yesterday.... lol :lol:

[Rastafari]

hey, sweet pic felicia!

[Felicia]

no, that's not me!

hahahhaah :D

[Vinny Rafarino]

Lighten up cpomrades, this ain't 1950.


Porno good. Communism good.


Communist porno better.


(in communist porno, all the lads dess up like Fidel or Stalin and hump ladies painted red and yellow, you can find me starring in 1986's "I'm up for some communism!")

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

the pornography industry should be treated like any other artform.

[Umoja]

And with the automation of most labor, "art" (aka porno) is likely to become more and more popular. I don't see any problems with that, but porno should be regulated. 16 y/o in movies is a bad idea.

[FabFabian]

Porn is good??? LOL !!! :lol: Are u serious??

[Rastafari]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2003, 07:36 PM
no, that's not me!

hahahhaah :D

of Che, dummie :P



the pornography industry should be treated like any other artform.
art that evokes some serious emotions, no doubt




How about prostitution. I think it is demeaning for both parties, but I am a 16 year-old know-nothing idealist, as you will quickly learn...

[Regicidal Insomniac]

Prostitution is a result of capitalism, people selling their bodies and exploiting themselves in staggering social desperation.

In a communist society, their will be no reason for prostitution.

Bodies will cease to be the currency of the opressed.
Morals will no longer be traded for capital.

As for pornography, I'm completely indifferent... but I consider the need for prostitution as a means of judging a countries existing social conditions. As you can imagine, within a communist society there would be no need for prostitution, and if prostitution is not surpressed then it will be used as a means of accumelating capital for indivisuals like a private enterprise.

[Felicia]

Originally posted by Rastafari+Aug 12 2003, 02:18 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rastafari @ Aug 12 2003, 02:18 AM)
[email protected] 11 2003, 07:36 PM
no, that&#39;s not me&#33;

hahahhaah :D

of Che, dummie :P [/b]
hahaha. No, now that one IS of me :lol:

haha, it&#39;s one of the new avatars that EC added to the list. :D

[elijahcraig]

Prostitution is a result of capitalism, people selling their bodies and exploiting themselves in staggering social desperation.

I agree. Re-reading my statement on this, and it didn&#39;t really make sense.

[sc4r]

Socialism has nothing to say on this score.

You may believe porn is good, bad or indifferent, and a proper socialist government is going to enforce majority will on the subject.

Some things (many things) are about what people want not about any ideological prinicple. Socialism provides a way to give most people what they want and allow them a properly informed choice provided they dont exploit others in doing so. It&#39;s not intended as a set of religous maxims or instructions; its a practical way to avoid the problems of inappropriate influence.

Personally I&#39;d vote for a ban on porn. I find it distasteful, tacky, cheap. Defining it might be hard though.

[truthaddict11]

Personally I&#39;d vote for a ban on porn. I find it distasteful, tacky, cheap. Defining it might be hard though

Thats why I dont think "pornography" should be banned. One person&#39;s definition of pornography is different from someone elses. If you personally dont like a "pornography" then dont look or associate with it.

[sc4r]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2003, 02:04 AM

Personally I&#39;d vote for a ban on porn. I find it distasteful, tacky, cheap. Defining it might be hard though

Thats why I dont think "pornography" should be banned. One person&#39;s definition of pornography is different from someone elses. If you personally dont like a "pornography" then dont look or associate with it.
true.

Of course that doesnt mean that defining it is impossible. WE dont have to find a definition that eevryone agrees with ; just one that enough people to form a sufficient majority do.

What you ban is , obviously, whatever the legal definition then becomes. In other words you dont ban &#39;anything that anyone might call porn; you ban (for example) colour pictures of aroused genitalia shown for non educational purpoises (or whatever).

It is also a mistake to think that just because somebody might say &#39;Ahhhh but I published them for educational purposes&#39; such a law is weak. All laws and communication operates on the basis that at some level there is sufficiewnt consensus about real intended meaning in operational terms. This is is what differentiates good communication from bad; we dont try to make it 100% unarguable , because one never can.

A society (such as america) which allows lawyers to fuck around with contrived &#39;possible meanings&#39; and words is basically playing a game of semantics; its a sham. Which of course is exactly what the whole american system is.

[YKTMX]

I think we should "re-educate" people to not have any sexual drive. Thus making them more productive and giving them more time to read. :rolleyes:

[Regicidal Insomniac]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2003, 12:59 PM
I think we should "re-educate" people to not have any sexual drive. Thus making them more productive and giving them more time to read. :rolleyes:
I agree. We can call them "Purification Camps" which all citizens must attend for a miminum of 2 years.
There should also be mandatory breeding laws practiced every 5-10 years. All who disobey shall be personaly castrated by the our leader. :P

[MikeyBoy]

I think we should "re-educate" people to not have any sexual drive. Thus making them more productive and giving them more time to read.

Well then, Freudian psychology would be rendered obsolete.

[Hegemonicretribution]

sc4r if the law is not definite then people will be treated differently. This means prejudice is obviously going to be kept alive, and people will be less equal.

I have never owned any porn, but would never dream of stopping it. The laws aren&#39;t to bad now, perhaps a little more liberal. I think 18 is a good age for appearing in porn. There are people that would like to be a porn star and dream of it through unfulfilled adolecant experiences. This should be voluntary, and people also voluntarily working in the production of magazines etc, all of which could be distributed for a fair price and the money above costs collected as tax.

People have porn, have to work for it if they want it, and exploitation is taken out of it as everyone is voluntary.

If there was a ban people would use teaching aids for the same purpose, it becomes twisted and obscure. Also frustrated ugly people and teenagers would be less productive until they are allowed to relieve themselves :lol:

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

prostitution will not end when socialism is present. People will always want sex, and their will always be people willing to offer it, is has existed ever since humans have been around.
Porno, i think, should not be banned just because you find it distasteful, comarde. I find country music distasteful, does that mean we should ban it?

[Zombie]

Porno good. Communism good.


Communist porno better.


haha, good one mate :)

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2003, 08:43 PM
prostitution will not end when socialism is present. People will always want sex, and their will always be people willing to offer it, is has existed ever since humans have been around.
Porno, i think, should not be banned just because you find it distasteful, comarde. I find country music distasteful, does that mean we should ban it?
Yes, Yes we should :D

But seriously prostitution is where exploitation gets involved. Punishment should be minimal, and help should be given instead. However because of the risks carries it should not be left unchecked (STIs, pregnancies).

By encouraging the family unit, and regulating the porn as I mentioned earlier the need for prostitution should be minimal. Still frowned upon.

[sc4r]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2003, 08:07 PM
sc4r if the law is not definite then people will be treated differently. This means prejudice is obviously going to be kept alive, and people will be less equal.

I have never owned any porn, but would never dream of stopping it. The laws aren&#39;t to bad now, perhaps a little more liberal. I think 18 is a good age for appearing in porn. There are people that would like to be a porn star and dream of it through unfulfilled adolecant experiences. This should be voluntary, and people also voluntarily working in the production of magazines etc, all of which could be distributed for a fair price and the money above costs collected as tax.

People have porn, have to work for it if they want it, and exploitation is taken out of it as everyone is voluntary.

If there was a ban people would use teaching aids for the same purpose, it becomes twisted and obscure. Also frustrated ugly people and teenagers would be less productive until they are allowed to relieve themselves :lol:
If yo can think of any way to make words unambiguous tell me.

Words mean EXACTLY what people think they mean.

And since not everyne thinks exactly (or even approximately) the same then somebody, or some group is always going to have to say &#39;Fuck yoi that is what we mean when we say that&#39;.

By all means show me wrong. Preferably with an example.


best wishes. May the road rise with ya

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2003, 12:59 PM
I think we should "re-educate" people to not have any sexual drive. Thus making them more productive and giving them more time to read. :rolleyes:
Off to the labour camp for these fithy "fornicating" devils&#33;


If you all think that prostitution will not not exist uder capitalism...Well you&#39;re half right.


We just won&#39;t have to pay for it any longer. The sex industry has been around well before the inbvent of "capitalism".


I can&#39;t wait, &#39;cos I&#39;m gonna be the first one to ask for a job where chicks will want to come and have sex with me. That is if I can stay out of the "hooker" lines long enough.

[Hegemonicretribution]

O.K. I will have a go...using the rough ideas I stated in another post: It would be illegal to posess, produce or distribute any pornography, not permitted by the board of porn. Where pornography is non-educational/scientific showing of female breasts and vagina and the male penis. The showing of the human arse is permitted as long as no other object is placed on or in it.

O.K. so it is difficult.

The killing of any human being in any stage past birth is illegal unless authorised my military. Easier

I concede it is difficult, but by having a very definite law, it takes away some descrimination, and if lawyers are taught to interperet laws the same it would make it easier.

[elijahcraig]

Are you serious??? OMG. Abortion: legal. Pornography: legal. Homosexuality: legal, etc.

We don&#39;t want some right-wing society.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2003, 04:59 PM
Are you serious??? OMG. Abortion: legal. Pornography: legal. Homosexuality: legal, etc.

We don&#39;t want some right-wing society.
i hope you&#39;re kidding, comrade elijah. :unsure:

[elijahcraig]

Are you for the banning of pornography, homosexuality, and abortion? I thought you were a "Left" Communist.

[redstar2000]

In a communist (classless) society, there is no money and consequently commerce in human bodies (real or virtual) would be a meaningless concept.

In a socialist (class) society, it is certainly advantageous to do anything to acquire more money...even if there&#39;s no (legal) way to invest it. The more money you have, the more consumer goodies you can accumulate and the higher your social status becomes.

How "libertarian" such a society can be regarding sex, drugs, etc. is problematical. That is the case whether it is nominally "democratic" or a Leninist party dictatorship. I think it likely that people will continue to be imprisoned for "crimes" against "public morality" either way.

Another reason to "go straight for communism" after the revolution...it will put an end to questions like the one in this thread.

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A site about communist ideas

[elijahcraig]

^Another reason to ban RedStar...to avoid his mindless tautological musings^ :lol:

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2003, 05:35 PM
Are you for the banning of pornography, homosexuality, and abortion? I thought you were a "Left" Communist.
absolutely not&#33; but judging from your post, it would seem that you are the one who wishes to abolish these things&#33;
you have also obviously confused leftism with liberalism. I am a leftist, but I am by no means a liberal. A liberal, to me, is a reformist. Like Redstar said, whether or not you are moraly liberal, or a tight-ass, it does not matter in Communsim.

[elijahcraig]

I&#39;m sorry, you misunderstood my post. I was reading the post above mine which is pretty sickening.

[redstar2000]

Another reason to ban RedStar...to avoid his mindless tautological musings

Ban? Wow, you must be really pissed, elijah.

What are your other reasons to ban me?

I was reading the post above mine which is pretty sickening.

I thought "iron Leninist r-r-revolutionaries" like you came equipped with strong stomachs...you know, for those nasty but necessary things you have to do.

Guess you&#39;re still working on it.

http://www.sawu.org/redgreenleft/YaBBImages/smoking.gif
___________________________

U.S. GET OUT OF IRAQ NOW&#33;
___________________________

"...a disgusting and frightening website"
The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.sawu.org/redstar2000)
A site about communist ideas

[FistFullOfSteel]

very interesting thread.....well my opinion is that porn changes ur visons of sex...get a wife/girlfriend instead of looking at porno pictures and movies and stuff...thats my opinion :rolleyes:

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2003, 01:37 PM
very interesting thread.....well my opinion is that porn changes ur visons of sex...get a wife/girlfriend instead of looking at porno pictures and movies and stuff...thats my opinion :rolleyes:
easy for you to say&#33;
:lol:

[elijahcraig]

Another reason to ban RedStar...to avoid his mindless tautological musings

Ban? Wow, you must be really pissed, elijah.

No, just kidding. The god figure RS should never be banned, then all of his cult would die out. :lol:


What are your other reasons to ban me?

I don&#39;t want to ban you.



I was reading the post above mine which is pretty sickening.

I thought "iron Leninist r-r-revolutionaries" like you came equipped with strong stomachs...you know, for those nasty but necessary things you have to do.

Banning those things is not a way I would follow.


Guess you&#39;re still working on it.

The "necessary things" don&#39;t include being homophobic sexists.

[Bianconero]

I think someone already mentioned it (didn&#39;t read through the whole thread) ...

Prostitution, pornography (whatever) is a direct result of capitalist exploitation. Point, no need to go further.

[elijahcraig]

There were pornography and prostitution before capitalism.

[Bianconero]

There was exploitation before capitalism.

[elijahcraig]

And? You said it was a "direct" product of capitalism.

I don&#39;t see why pornography should be banned. Prostitution? I don&#39;t think that could exist under socialism.

[Bianconero]

You didn&#39;t catch the point, did you?

I was not being accurate, of course. Prostitution is a direct result of exploitation. And exploitation did exist before the 19th century, i.e. before capitalism. So basically, prostitution is a direct result of any &#39;class society&#39;, so to speak.

About pornography, I&#39;m not sure. Actually, I&#39;d say that it goes hand in hand with prostitution. I may be wrong, though.

[elijahcraig]

I don&#39;t agree on pornography.

I do "get your point" on "exploitation", now that you&#39;ve explained it&#33; I was replying to your "capitalism result" post.

[Bianconero]

Most people being part of pornography (films, whatever ... ) are not from &#39;upper&#39; class background. Does that tell you something?

[elijahcraig]

Yes, I understand. But we should not BAN anything. We should provide all the equal opportunities and all that...and give them the option. Some people are experimentalists sexually, by nature. We can&#39;t ban things like that. We have to adjust society to fit where they don&#39;t have to do those things if they did them for money before. If they do it...fine, if they don&#39;t...well, fine as well.

[Bianconero]

I do think we should at least ban it for the period of subversionist attacks. Because, as I see it, in that period of class struggle greedy individuals could still try to make money out of others humiliating themselves. Counter - revolutionary, to say the least.

Then however, you are right, people should be given the choice. After all, we can&#39;t &#39;look into&#39; every individual, his &#39;sexual preferences&#39; etc.

[elijahcraig]

I agree it may have to be banned for that period of time.

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2003, 07:28 PM

I think we should "re-educate" people to not have any sexual drive. Thus making them more productive and giving them more time to read.

Well then, Freudian psychology would be rendered obsolete.
Ahh, a good spin off&#33;

[UnionofSovietSocialistRepublics]

Porn wud/does make idols out of some individuals merely becuase of genetics (good looking, and prepared to humiliate yourself-then fame is yours). Under revolutionary control people should be educated into believing it is a bad thing, if for no other reason than encouraging the &#39;some people are born better than others&#39; rubbish.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Yes but people would see people they think are better looking everyday, the will see those that are stronger. Even if they aren&#39;t one of those that is smarter than the rest they can probably see that because of genetics not everyone is equal.

Also by teaching people that porn is bad, they will be taught to look down on those that have some, what if it is their stressed out father? The elder brother or sister? You are directly teaching them to think themselves better people.

Equal oppurtunities works imo better that outright equality.

[UnionofSovietSocialistRepublics]

I agree to an extent with what your saying, however when u belive u see sum1 better looking or out of your "league" that is just personal prefferance/opinion, a porn industry would create idols of the wrong sort of people, and clearly is the first step towards cash 4 sex.
As for your second point, are you saying it is wrong to look down on people, for example you say its wrong that a good well balanced worker shouldnt look down on a re-offending criminal?
Also isnt it just a waste, people who cud b workin 4 the state wud b fucking for it insted&#33;?&#33;

[Hegemonicretribution]

I know it sounds like something out of 1984, but the porn industry I described should take away that risk, whilst allowing people a choice.

I don&#39;t think people should look down on a reoffending criminal, when you klnow people well that is different, but that is a step towards bigetry. Pride should remain for the fact you are a good woprker, but any more is wrong. Like I said in the porn industry I described, all would be volunteers, and people would ot appear that often.

[UnionofSovietSocialistRepublics]

People would still be exploited, the ulitmate example being children, do you approve of child porn? thats what your saying with your liberalisation. what exactly would u do to control it?

[Hegemonicretribution]

I strongly disaprove. The age to take part I ould probably put as 21. Then maybe make it only married people that can take part. Like I said, think it is on page 2 now, things would strictly be run by a state department, and there would be no reward, just th freedom to take part and view if you wish to. All porn would be sold at 100% taxed profit, ie the state claims all back anyway.

All black market porn, as with black market goods, I guess, would have to be very carefully controlled.

[UnionofSovietSocialistRepublics]

well thats fair enough i suppose, the one part of your argument i would disagree with hegemonicretrobution, is about the marriage part -"Then maybe make it only married people that can take part. ", as an atheist and a socialist i would have to disagree with that, probably a pretty common view on here- especially with maoists.
*edit* " All black market porn, as with black market goods, I guess, would have to be very carefully controlled. " how do you control black market goods comrade?

[Hegemonicretribution]

Sorry guess a creature of habits thats all. Maybe was a sugestion, what I am trying to say is permanent couples take part. I didn&#39;t neccessarily mean a religious mariage, more of a legally binding one, but the point is not just anyone taking part.

I think the control of the black market is for another thread, but assuming black market porn may contain illegal and exploitative images, it should be dealt with by harsh punishments. Of course each crime should be dealt with according to it&#39;s nature.

[UnionofSovietSocialistRepublics]

agreed&#33; ;)

[Hegemonicretribution]

I will get on to a new thread now then. I expect you will be there ;).

Anyway Its good talking to you, I don&#39;t think I had contact with before?

[FabFabian]

Pornography, derived from the Greek words porno=obscene and graphia=writings.

Porn perpetuates lies about sex and sexuality, exploits women and numbs people to reality.

This is a general statement. If we want to go into a hefty discussion of what is porn vs erotic lit or film that is another topic altogether. One person&#39;s art is another person&#39;s smut of course, but if I put forth my understanding of what porn is, it is the exploitation of sex for monetary gain and perpetuating misogynist ideas of sex.