Why socialism?

[durhamleft]

I'm doing a presentation to a mixed group tomorrow about why I am a socialist. It's to a group consisting of two fellow socialists, a few social democrat type left of centre and a very large number of conservative/ libertarian types. I'm not trying to convince them over to the cause, but it's more of an exercise in establishing that left wing politics aren't 'naive playground politics' as they like to think.

Clearly I will be talking about the equity, the failing of free markets to allocate resources in a fair and suitable way, the exploitation of man and land, and the fact very many social problems like crime can be put down to class divide. However is there anything else that you think is worth adding, what evidence that may back my case up, or any 'soundbites' that attack capitalism then I'd be very grateful to hear them
Comradely

[Muzk]

Why socialism? - Albert Einstein http://www.monthlyreview.org/598einstein.php


Anyways, LOL at you trying to learn enough for such a debate in a day. Good luck, you'll need it!

[durhamleft]

Why socialism? - Albert Einstein http://www.monthlyreview.org/598einstein.php


Anyways, LOL at you trying to learn enough for such a debate in a day. Good luck, you'll need it!

I know all my basic arguments, I'm just looking for any like, short and snappy quotes or ideas to slot in...

[Jimmie Higgins]

I'm doing a presentation to a mixed group tomorrow about why I am a socialist. It's to a group consisting of two fellow socialists, a few social democrat type left of centre and a very large number of conservative/ libertarian types. I'm not trying to convince them over to the cause, but it's more of an exercise in establishing that left wing politics aren't 'naive playground politics' as they like to think.

Clearly I will be talking about the equity, the failing of free markets to allocate resources in a fair and suitable way, the exploitation of man and land, and the fact very many social problems like crime can be put down to class divide. However is there anything else that you think is worth adding, what evidence that may back my case up, or any 'soundbites' that attack capitalism then I'd be very grateful to hear them
Comradely

Talk about Democratic-control and decision making at work. This usually throws people who are anti-socialist in a general way and it puts the capitalist system into question because rather than talking about the potential freedom of a future society, here is a easy to grasp example of how we do not have real freedom in the capitalist system. It cuts through all the straw-men arguments about the USSR and China being "socialist" too - sure wearing a uniform and being told what to do in North Korea sucks... so, now, how many of you in the audience have to wear a uniform and do what you are told by bosses for 8 hours a day at work? Of course, this argument may not hold as much weight for students who do not all have to work full-time, but it's a handy argument in my expereince.

[4 Leaf Clover]

Because there is no social justice without Socialism. I know i didn't help much but i felt like it :)

[Chris]

Because we're tired of a parasitic elite living off our labour?

[Q]

There are several routes for such a presentation. For example, you could go the "Marx route" and explain how capitalism works in order to show how it inherently fails and brings forward a class that is destined to overthrow this system. You could also go for the more moralistic route, showing how capitalism has caused all kinds of wrongs and we need a better system then that. There are other ways imaginable. They all depend somewhat on the type of public, time available, etc.

[Victus Mortuum]

"Do you support democracy in the political institutions?
Then you should also support democracy in economic institutions."

If they protest to the second with some problem with democracy in the economy, then use that same retort against the political democracy, and make them justify economic democracy (which is what socialism is) by justifying governmental democracy. If they can't justify or don't justify governmental democracy, be prepared to do that as well.

That's a pretty easy and effective means of convincing someone of "socialism", though I discourage use of that term in most public settings by those who actually support this radical democracy, due to the fact that this is not what the word socialism means to most in modern society.

[syndicat]

I would talk about how workers have no indepenent means to live apart from getting jobs with employers, where they are forced to work under a private tyranny, where they have no say or control over the work, and how owners are entitled to wealth even tho they don't do the work. so capitalism is in reality a system of oppression of workers.

I'd define an authentic socialism as workers having the power to run the places where they work, so they are no longer subordinate, oppressed by a boss class. This allows you to get past all the usual anti-communist arguments about the repressive nature of the old Soviet Union etc.

[ckaihatsu]

Ask your audience why the corporate structure of material organization can't simply be done for the good of all humanity -- ? Right now it's only for the benefit of a select group of shareholders, yet the internal *structure* is free from warfare, excessive competition, politicking, currency exchange speculation, nationalism, courts, legalities, etc.

Of course I'm not saying that such a method could transfer over *intact* into a publicly socialized system of administration, but so far it's the most advanced body of organization that humanity has ever developed.

Also maybe note that, out of the entire animal kingdom, human beings are the only species that builds up a *surplus* of materials from its own labor efforts -- if there's to be any fundamental respect and dignity for the individual then it should be based on political democracy, yes, but also on *labor* democracy.

From the 'need' side of things we should emphasize that human need should be rewarded first, *not* capital investments first, as a matter of basic, common-sense prioritization.

Here are some visual aids, too:


Labor & Capital, Wages & Dividends

http://i47.tinypic.com/dzbdzq.jpg


Supply prioritization in a socialist transitional economy

http://i45.tinypic.com/30204e8.jpg


communist economy diagram

http://i48.tinypic.com/2iiitma.jpg

[Kisiel]

"Do you support democracy in the political institutions?
Then you should also support democracy in economic institutions."

That would be the line of thinking I'd use. Marx doesn't make even a shade of impression on liberals, democracy does.

Also "There is no socialism without democracy- there is no democracy without socialism" by Rosa Luxemburg (who I don't know why is called a german politician on this forum). This statement is a good starting point to proove that in order to achieve real democracy we need social protection. Todays democracies may seem (to some) fair because there are some social coats (bigger or smaller) on them, but still the rich and influencial have the power. Socialism means equaling the start and chances.

[ZeroNowhere]

Marx doesn't make even a shade of impression on liberals, democracy does.You would be surprised. In addition, arguing on the field of political economy also means that you are arguing for socialism and not simply self-managed capitalism. The problem with capitalism isn't hierarchy amongst persons, it's that people's social relations take the form of things and form a hierarchy over persons.

[Kisiel]

You would be surprised.

Guess I would. Don't know the liberals you stumble upon, but the ones here know Marx quite well.