Bro-core / Tough Guy Hardcore.

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

Anybody into it?

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[A Proletarian Manifesto]

Why the fuck wont it let me post youtube vids?

[gorillafuck]

You only post the numbers at the end of the url now.

[EvilRedGuy]

Not all videos work though, i have seen videos which show up as nothing.

[Widerstand]

Not all videos work though, i have seen videos which show up as nothing.

That's when people forget part of the string or keep the equal sign or keep part of the next string, etc.

[Patchd]

'Bro-core', 'Tough guy hardcore' ... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
People actually seriously named a genre that?

[Widerstand]

'Bro-core', 'Tough guy hardcore' ... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
People actually seriously named a genre that?

A shitty genre with patriarchal and reactionary elements ("guys need to be STRONK/TOUGH", blood&soil elements, all the shitty stuff from hardline straight edge without the good stuff), yes. Within the hardcore scene, it's usually these folks who complain about emo/screamo being "gay" or "fucking transfags."

[Fawkes]

'Bro-core', 'Tough guy hardcore' ... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
People actually seriously named a genre that?

I've found that for the most part, fans generally just refer to it as hardcore, bro-core is somewhat of a derogatory term for it, even if it's a totally accurate one. Depends on the band for me, but for the most part, not really into it at all. In fact, with bands like Db4D, I just straight up hate them. I tend to be more receptive toward nyc bands, not cause I live here, they just tend to have a different feel and approach to them.

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

'Bro-core', 'Tough guy hardcore' ... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
People actually seriously named a genre that?

Other people named it that, people who listen to it just call it hardcore, but I think hardcore is a pretty universal term so I used a widely known term for the style.

It's like a medium between old hardcore and metal-core.

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

A shitty genre with patriarchal and reactionary elements ("guys need to be STRONK/TOUGH", blood&soil elements, all the shitty stuff from hardline straight edge without the good stuff), yes. Within the hardcore scene, it's usually these folks who complain about emo/screamo being "gay" or "fucking transfags."

I forgot when crying on the mic and screaming rediculous lyrics, sometimes about murder sometimes about consumeristic tendencies, was better than singing about strength, unity, and loyalty. I've yet to meet one loyal person at a scream-o show. They're all just there to look pretty for each other. Oh that and try to slam dance and mosh and failing.

I'll take a shaven lad yelling, then some guy I thought was a chick screaming their heart out any day of the week.

[Widerstand]

I forgot when crying on the mic and screaming rediculous lyrics, sometimes about murder sometimes about consumeristic tendencies,

Clearly you have no idea what either emo or screamo is.


singing about strength, unity, and loyalty.

Strength as in "boys need to be tough" gender stereotype reproduction, unity at the loss and exclusion of individuality, and loyalty to one band / town, along with a fair share of hatred for everything else. Reactionary as fuck.



I've yet to meet one loyal person at a scream-o show.

LOYALTY! Hah! Fuck your gods, fuck your masters, fuck your blood and soil loyalty bullshit.



I'll take a shaven lad yelling, then some guy I thought was a chick screaming their heart out any day of the week.

A bit transphobic, aren't we?

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

Clearly you have no idea what either emo or screamo is.



Strength as in "boys need to be tough" gender stereotype reproduction, unity at the loss and exclusion of individuality, and loyalty to one band / town, along with a fair share of hatred for everything else. Reactionary as fuck.



LOYALTY! Hah! Fuck your gods, fuck your masters, fuck your blood and soil loyalty bullshit.



A bit transphobic, aren't we?

Okay because half of those statements are retarded ill just dissect the other half.

We dont think you need to be tough, we take pride in having strength.
We do not have loyalty to one band, but loyalty to locality should never be a bad thing.
And dont get me started about loss of individuality, the only way I can tell you scene kids apart is by two ways.
1. gauge sizes
2. The current shirt you're wearing.
Everything else is all the same cut and copy style.
You obviously got bullied at a show and are a scrawny, over emotional *****.
Get over yourself you and your "friends" (if you even have any) suck.

And I never in my life, ever thought that having each others back was a bad thing, or even translated into Gods and masters.

How do you spew all this talk of camaraderie and then say that bullshit. You're obviously a phony who learned a couple leftist terms and thought you were "in". You need to reevaluate yourself there guy, you clearly haven't grasped the majority of what you are talking about. You need to realize that leftism isn't some kind of theory you can take up to look cool and then talk about absolute shit that has nothing to do with the conversation at hand and think you have made some kind of point.

[L.A.P.]

There's no way this is an actual sub-genre of Hardcore Punk it's almost as much of a bullshit term as Sleaze Rock. All these bands are just Hardcore Punk, Crossover Thrash, and Metalcore.

[L.A.P.]

Okay because half of those statements are retarded ill just dissect the other half.

We dont think you need to be tough, we take pride in having strength.
We do not have loyalty to one band, but loyalty to locality should never be a bad thing.
And dont get me started about loss of individuality, the only way I can tell you scene kids apart is by two ways.
1. gauge sizes
2. The current shirt you're wearing.
Everything else is all the same cut and copy style.
You obviously got bullied at a show and are a scrawny, over emotional *****.
Get over yourself you and your "friends" (if you even have any) suck.

And I never in my life, ever thought that having each others back was a bad thing, or even translated into Gods and masters.

How do you spew all this talk of camaraderie and then say that bullshit. You're obviously a phony who learned a couple leftist terms and thought you were "in". You need to reevaluate yourself there guy, you clearly haven't grasped the majority of what you are talking about. You need to realize that leftism isn't some kind of theory you can take up to look cool and then talk about absolute shit that has nothing to do with the conversation at hand and think you have made some kind of point.

He does have a point though, you have no idea what emo music is, you're just like those annoying high school kids who label anyone who wears the color black emo. Of course emo is a shitty genre but I doubt you can name a single emo band.

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

Are we speaking pop emo like Fall Out Boy, or old emo like Fugazi

[Fawkes]

I forgot when crying on the mic and screaming rediculous lyrics, sometimes about murder sometimes about consumeristic tendencies, was better than singing about strength, unity, and loyalty. I've yet to meet one loyal person at a scream-o show. They're all just there to look pretty for each other. Oh that and try to slam dance and mosh and failing.

I'll take a shaven lad yelling, then some guy I thought was a chick screaming their heart out any day of the week.

Shut the fuck up you stupid prick. You obviously don't know shit about screamo, emo, or post-hxc in general. If we're gonna throw around stereotypes here, if emo kids are there to look pretty, bro-core kids are there to look tough and strong, and this is speaking physically, as we all know physical strength doesn't have shit to do with mental/emotional strength. I know that isn't entirely true, but you're the one that tried to bring the stereotypes in.

So much of the "loyalty" you see at tough guy shows is just people finding an excuse to fight in the name of "having someone's back".

Oh yeah, and you're a sexist and transphobic douche bag/insecure. Any "guy" that dresses like a "chick", which includes me, is probably ten times tougher and stronger than any muscle-flexing douche bag at a bro-core show because they've got the courage to dress and look however the fuck they want and not have to go around trying to impress people by how hard they just hit that kid in the pit.

Go up to any drag queen or androgynous person, even bring your bro-core friends along, and say shit like that and chances are you'll get dropped fucking hard.

[razboz]

I forgot when crying on the mic and screaming rediculous lyrics, sometimes about murder sometimes about consumeristic tendencies, was better than singing about strength, unity, and loyalty. I've yet to meet one loyal person at a scream-o show. They're all just there to look pretty for each other. Oh that and try to slam dance and mosh and failing.

I'll take a shaven lad yelling, then some guy I thought was a chick screaming their heart out any day of the week.

You're not only a fucking douche, but a borderline homophobe and confirmed transphobe. You fully deserve whatever ostracising you get when you try and join any movement seriously committed to social justice.

"Strength, unity, loyalty"? Heard that (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_of_the_Will)before.

It's what all authoritarian tendencies resort to when they run out of actual human emotions to manipulate.

[Widerstand]

Okay because half of those statements are retarded ill just dissect the other half.

Hahahaha. Really? So using "looks like a chic" as a derogatory description of a guy is not transphobic?



We dont think you need to be tough, we take pride in having strength.

The scene itself is really derogatory to those they view as "weak" however.



We do not have loyalty to one band, but loyalty to locality should never be a bad thing.

Loyalty to locality leads to people being beat up if they're from another loyalty.



And dont get me started about loss of individuality, the only way I can tell you scene kids apart is by two ways.
1. gauge sizes
2. The current shirt you're wearing.
Everything else is all the same cut and copy style.

Yeah uh, I totally get your point, look at this homogeneous mass of people:

http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/113/l_737c434e590445a88050be2ab2b0d10d.jpg

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/36740869/La+Dispute+3832502426_9c18453036.jpg

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/500/39589097/Touche+Amore+touch.jpg

http://a616.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/49/l_36a8879933395d71b6c0290f35f54727.jpg

http://nicolegoodwin.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/img_0108-copy.jpg?w=500&h=333


You obviously got bullied at a show and

Why would I be at a show where people bully others over their looks? I'm not that much into crypto-fascist music really.


are a scrawny, over emotional *****.

You are such a fucking hypocrite, being on a leftist forum and throwing around reactionary ideologies, transphobia and sexism.



Get over yourself you and your "friends" (if you even have any) suck.
:rolleyes:



How do you spew all this talk of camaraderie and then say that bullshit. You're obviously a phony who learned a couple leftist terms and thought you were "in". You need to reevaluate yourself there guy, you clearly haven't grasped the majority of what you are talking about. You need to realize that leftism isn't some kind of theory you can take up to look cool and then talk about absolute shit that has nothing to do with the conversation at hand and think you have made some kind of point.

It seems like you're confusing communism with fascism. Maybe you need to reevaluate yourself here. Leftism is about equality and emancipation, not about stupid pride & honor cults.

[Fawkes]

And dont get me started about loss of individuality, the only way I can tell you scene kids apart is by two ways.
I like that you insinuate that just because they pointed out the obvious fact that you don't know shit about emo/screamo, that they're a scene kid, nevermind the fact that it's music and anybody can like it.

I didn't see this part before:

You obviously got bullied at a show and are a scrawny, over emotional *****.
No, it's the other way around. You obviously feel insecure and feel a need to compensate for it through overt "masculinity". You're fucking pathetic, and you in no way sound tough or intimidating, so stop trying. Scrawny? So that implies that we should all have huge amounts of muscle for anything we say to carry any weight or meaning? Get the fuck outta here you douche bag, I'd love to see you come down to any show in ny and start with this tough guy bullshit and come out 1. with any friends 2. with any remnants of an ego 3. with an intact nose.

[EvilRedGuy]

That's when people forget part of the string or keep the equal sign or keep part of the next string, etc.

Actually i double-checked these videos and they simply dosen't work even if everything is added.

[L.A.P.]

Are we speaking pop emo like Fall Out Boy, or old emo like Fugazi

Definitely shitty pop emo like Fall Out Boy, Jimmy Eat World, Panic! At the Disco, My Chemical Romance. The original stuff was pretty good like Sunny Day Real Estate and Rites of Spring but Fugazi was more post-hardcore than emo.

[Widerstand]

Definitely shitty pop emo like Fall Out Boy, Jimmy Eat World, Panic! At the Disco, My Chemical Romance. The original stuff was pretty good like Sunny Day Real Estate and Rites of Spring but Fugazi was more post-hardcore than emo.

I don't think you can compare Snowing, Algernon Cadwallader or Hightide Hotel to Jimmy Eat World, My Chemical Romance or Fall Out Boy, yet they are modern Emo.

The thing is that the modern emo scene consists of pop emo just as well as "oldschool" emo. Same for the modern screamo and post-hardcore scene. Frankly, quite often the differences aren't at all clear.

This doesn't really matter though. Derogatory behavior based on how one wishes to look is always unacceptable.

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

Shut the fuck up you stupid prick. You obviously don't know shit about screamo, emo, or post-hxc in general. If we're gonna throw around stereotypes here, if emo kids are there to look pretty, bro-core kids are there to look tough and strong, and this is speaking physically, as we all know physical strength doesn't have shit to do with mental/emotional strength. I know that isn't entirely true, but you're the one that tried to bring the stereotypes in.

So much of the "loyalty" you see at tough guy shows is just people finding an excuse to fight in the name of "having someone's back".

Oh yeah, and you're a sexist and transphobic douche bag/insecure. Any "guy" that dresses like a "chick", which includes me, is probably ten times tougher and stronger than any muscle-flexing douche bag at a bro-core show because they've got the courage to dress and look however the fuck they want and not have to go around trying to impress people by how hard they just hit that kid in the pit.

Go up to any drag queen or androgynous person, even bring your bro-core friends along, and say shit like that and chances are you'll get dropped fucking hard.

Obviously this board is full of emo rejects of society.
I do not discriminate people for their sexual preference.
I do however thinks it fucking retarded to dress like a fuckin chick to try to be popular. Oh and dress how they want without worrying what people think of them? Thats the whole fuckin reason they dress like that douche bag.

Also I do not consider myself apart of any "scene" because I do not go to show. The death-core kids are fags who like to hit girls, and most hardcore shows are non existent in my area because my city is on the brink of death. Also I do not shave my head, I do not wear any hardcore band apparel (other than a few really hard punk bands t's and a suicide machines hoodie) I dress like a typical working class individual. I wear plain jeans, and plain shirts most of the time. Sometimes I wear athletic shorts, but only because they are very comfortable. I never wear hats, and I buy the oo's skate shoes which are always short tops and wide based. My hair just covers my ears but I dont style it in any fashion so its a little curly. I do not mind looking average because I developed something called a personality.
I do not need to be flamboyant to get attention or join any clique. Most of my friends are nerds or they skate, and a couple musicians.
Im not trans or homophobic. I say fag sometimes (not as derogatory to gay people) but because its an insult that holds weight.
Im sick of leftist communities trying to label me something im not through strawman outlets.

I know what I speak of and you guys sound like a bunch of kids who didnt have enough friends in highschool and spent so much time on forum boards that you label others inferior because you have a couple buzzwords you like to throw around.

And quite calling me a reactionary you fucking idiots, because teens in your circles are the ones who consider themselves very right elitists. Im sick of you fucking idiots, you remind me of street punks who have nothing better to say but try to prove others disloyalty to the cause and out them as a poser, when in realities terms, they only do so so they can feel like they're from some sort of elite few. Well news flash, douches bags are very abundant.

[Muzk]

Obviously this board is full of emo rejects of society.
I do not discriminate people for their sexual preference.
I do however thinks it fucking retarded to dress like a fuckin chick to try to be popular. Oh and dress how they want without worrying what people think of them? Thats the whole fuckin reason they dress like that douche bag.

Also I do not consider myself apart of any "scene" because I do not go to show. The death-core kids are fags who like to hit girls, and most hardcore shows are non existent in my area because my city is on the brink of death. Also I do not shave my head, I do not wear any hardcore band apparel (other than a few really hard punk bands t's and a suicide machines hoodie) I dress like a typical working class individual. I wear plain jeans, and plain shirts most of the time. Sometimes I wear athletic shorts, but only because they are very comfortable. I never wear hats, and I buy the oo's skate shoes which are always short tops and wide based. My hair just covers my ears but I dont style it in any fashion so its a little curly. I do not mind looking average because I developed something called a personality.
I do not need to be flamboyant to get attention or join any clique. Most of my friends are nerds or they skate, and a couple musicians.
Im not trans or homophobic. I say fag sometimes (not as derogatory to gay people) but because its an insult that holds weight.
Im sick of leftist communities trying to label me something im not through strawman outlets.

I know what I speak of and you guys sound like a bunch of kids who didnt have enough friends in highschool and spent so much time on forum boards that you label others inferior because you have a couple buzzwords you like to throw around.

And quite calling me a reactionary you fucking idiots, because teens in your circles are the ones who consider themselves very right elitists. Im sick of you fucking idiots, you remind me of street punks who have nothing better to say but try to prove others disloyalty to the cause and out them as a poser, when in realities terms, they only do so so they can feel like they're from some sort of elite few. Well news flash, douches bags are very abundant.

http://cdn2.knowyourmeme.com/system/icons/91/thumb/Problem.jpg?1236877228

[PilesOfDeadNazis]

The death-core kids are fags
You really don't seem to belong here, bro. Ever heard of Stormfront? Plenty of talk about "fags" and "*****es" being lame and about how awsome strength and loyalty are and about how people who are different(and therefore, weak, because that's how logic works?) should be put in gas chambers.

Yeah, bro, fuck every emo/scene kid, man.

Where the fuck do you live? Scene died in like 2006 where I am. True, now it's all full of deathcore/metalcore kids, but I would never insult the gay community by calling those kids words like "fag".

And you only use that word because it's a good insult, basically? And everyone else are the ones who are insecure?

Get your head out of your ass. I'm sorry you are unable to be accepted in any other group other than a bunch of asswipes who just want to complain about how lame everyone else is and how awsome and tough they are, but fucking A don't even try to think that shit can be pulled on a Leftist forum, where we are here to discuss equality and social justice against all you "Might is Right" motherfuckers.

[PilesOfDeadNazis]

I do not discriminate people for their sexual preference.

Yes, you do.

[NoOneIsIllegal]

Moshcore/Tough Guy Hardcore/Shit sucks. I've seen a lot of these bands live (Walls of Jericho, Throwdown, Bury Your Dead, Terror...)
It's a really boring genre, and thinking about it, I'm surprised I've seen so many of them :lol: The thoughts/ideology behind it are ridiculous.
The first Terror show I was at, there were a thousand fights. No one pulled a knife though lolololol

[Fawkes]

I'll quote you on this one

Okay because all of those statements are retarded ill just dissect the other half.
But I'll bite anyway...


Obviously this board is full of emo rejects of society.
Emo? Dude, using that as an insult stopped being cool about 5 years ago.


I do not discriminate people for their sexual preference.
Just their gender manifestations.


I do however thinks it fucking retarded to dress like a fuckin chick to try to be popular.
Sorry, I forgot there were things that only "chicks" can wear. You know what else is "retarded"? Worrying about what other people wear.


Also I do not consider myself apart of any "scene" because I do not go to show.
Then you're not exactly an authority on the goings on of the bro-core scene are you?


The death-core kids are fags who like to hit girls
1. You're probably gonna get restricted or banned. I'm not saying I'm in favor of it, but you will.
2. Yes, because those poor defenseless girls could never defend themselves against a guy, that's why we tough, chivalrous men are here to defend their virtue and innocence.


and most hardcore shows are non existent in my area because my city is on the brink of death.
Then do what every other angsty kid has done: make a scene.


Also I do not shave my head, I do not wear any hardcore band apparel (other than a few really hard punk bands t's and a suicide machines hoodie) I dress like a typical working class individual. I wear plain jeans, and plain shirts most of the time. Sometimes I wear athletic shorts, but only because they are very comfortable. I never wear hats, and I buy the oo's skate shoes which are always short tops and wide based. My hair just covers my ears but I dont style it in any fashion so its a little curly.
I don't care what you wear.


I do not mind looking average because I developed something called a personality.
Yeah, a shitty one. But those things change, which is why I don't want you banned.


I do not need to be flamboyant to get attention or join any clique.
Only show off how tough and strong and "loyal" you are.


Most of my friends are nerds or they skate, and a couple musicians.
cool


Im not trans or homophobic.
Yeah, and grizzly adams had a beard.


I say fag sometimes (not as derogatory to gay people) but because its an insult that holds weight.
Unlike your arguments.


Im sick of leftist communities trying to label me something im not through strawman outlets.
You mean as an ignorant darsh?


I know what I speak of and you guys sound like a bunch of kids who didnt have enough friends in highschool
That's actually exactly what you sound like.


spent so much time on forum boards that you label others inferior
This coming from the kid whose talking about a scene which he admittedly had never been a part of.


you have a couple buzzwords you like to throw around.
Like "loyalty" and "strength"?


And quite calling me a reactionary you fucking idiots
Stop being one.


because teens in your circles are the ones who consider themselves very right elitists
Sorry, I forgot you know me and the circles I travel in.


Im sick of you fucking idiots
I'm sowwy.


you remind me of street punks who have nothing better to say but try to prove others disloyalty to the cause and out them as a poser, when in realities terms, they only do so so they can feel like they're from some sort of elite few.
1. Is this another example of you talking about a scene about which you know nothing?
2. Or the "bros" that kick (literally) others out of their shows for being "emo" or "*****es".


Well news flash, douches bags are very abundant.
Are they now? Couldn't tell.

Lastly, who the hell is the "we" you keep talking about? You just said you don't go to shows and aren't part of any scene or making an active effort to form one. Is it "we" meaning the disaffected youth of America? Okay, I can get on board with that. But I think the "we" is guys who never learned how to keep their muscles in a relaxed position, and who either were bullied, so they feel a need to take out frustrations on "emo pussies", or they were the jocks/bullies who just want to continue hiding their insecurities underneath a veil of "brotherhood" and "honor" and "strength".

Get a fucking reality check, dude.

[Widerstand]

Also I do not consider myself apart of any "scene" because I do not go to show.

So basically you are telling people who have prolly been to more "bro-core" shows than you that they're wrong and have no idea what they're talking about while throwing around uniformed, transphobic and borderline sexist opinions? Cool.

[Fawkes]

Oh yeah, as far as "unity" goes, nothing screams unity like kicking the shit out of each other at shows for stupid fucking reasons, if any at all.

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

Shut the fuck up you stupid prick. You obviously don't know shit about screamo, emo, or post-hxc in general. If we're gonna throw around stereotypes here, if emo kids are there to look pretty, bro-core kids are there to look tough and strong, and this is speaking physically, as we all know physical strength doesn't have shit to do with mental/emotional strength. I know that isn't entirely true, but you're the one that tried to bring the stereotypes in.

So much of the "loyalty" you see at tough guy shows is just people finding an excuse to fight in the name of "having someone's back".

Oh yeah, and you're a sexist and transphobic douche bag/insecure. Any "guy" that dresses like a "chick", which includes me, is probably ten times tougher and stronger than any muscle-flexing douche bag at a bro-core show because they've got the courage to dress and look however the fuck they want and not have to go around trying to impress people by how hard they just hit that kid in the pit.

Go up to any drag queen or androgynous person, even bring your bro-core friends along, and say shit like that and chances are you'll get dropped fucking hard.


You really don't seem to belong here, bro. Ever heard of Stormfront? Plenty of talk about "fags" and "*****es" being lame and about how awsome strength and loyalty are and about how people who are different(and therefore, weak, because that's how logic works?) should be put in gas chambers.

Yeah, bro, fuck every emo/scene kid, man.

Where the fuck do you live? Scene died in like 2006 where I am. True, now it's all full of deathcore/metalcore kids, but I would never insult the gay community by calling those kids words like "fag".

And you only use that word because it's a good insult, basically? And everyone else are the ones who are insecure?

Get your head out of your ass. I'm sorry you are unable to be accepted in any other group other than a bunch of asswipes who just want to complain about how lame everyone else is and how awsome and tough they are, but fucking A don't even try to think that shit can be pulled on a Leftist forum, where we are here to discuss equality and social justice against all you "Might is Right" motherfuckers.


Okay im not going to answer all of you self righteous retards so ill just do you, okay?
You are bunch of dudes who most likely try to look as feminine as possible hoping girls dig that because you have absolutely no pride in the way you look. (You wouldn't get so defensive if you did) You obviously dont go to the gym other wise those double zero hollister jeans might tear in an uncool fashion and then the chicks that talk to you would decrease from two to none.

If you read what I said, I said I only listen to the music, I enjoy the lyrics of "bro-core" bands. Emo bands typically just falt out suck and screamo doesnt have decent instrumentals let alone vox or lyrics. The emo and screamo scene is filled with a bunch of kids without a good personality so they listen to popular music to try to get some friends or at least fool themselves into thinking they have an identity. See I dont have this problem because I devoloped a little thing we like to call "charm", I could dress like the guy from the 6 flags commercial and girls would still like me because I am genuinely interesting. You on the other hand dont have many peer interactions because you sit at the computer or in your room (probably the same place) all day.

Also I am much bigger than most drag queens and im in pretty good shape so I doubt they would really kick my ass seeing as drag queens try very hard to look and be feminine. But like I said I am not homophobic, I would never make fun of a person for their sexual preference, you must be homophobic because you are getting all offended when I called you gay for your tendencies. See you could ask other esteemed members of this board that are on the TPU forum, I never get mad if somebody calls me gay, I usually just go along with it.

And every one of you militant weekend leftists are very delusional hypocrites. You believe in all this freedom bullshit, freedom for this freedom for that, yet you want to ban me for saying the word "fag" and not even as a strike against homosexuals?

Oh and to your whole "mine is right motherfuckers"
You basically just did the same thing back because you had a couple sceney weenies trying to tell me off.
You know what, I have yet to meet a scenester who was tough anywhere but the internet, they get whipped at school, they get whipped at shows, they get whipped at the mall, yet they talk such a big game to girls, or when theyre on the internet.
It saddens me really.

Oh and to the Nazi remark, fuck you. You label me a Nazi because you have no legitimate responses for me.

Oh and tell your buddy Che' or Marx (You know, those commie fags) how much you dislike strength, loyalty, and unity. They wouldn't even know what to say to you because there was no such thing as little retards like you back then, they would be in complete shock.

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

Also, Ive realized you guys don't post in anything meaningful, I don't think either of you have a post in the politics or workers struggle threads. So why the fuck do you come here, just get a fuckin facebook, you'll probably relate to people better.

Also you see that quote in my signature? Yeah? Well I wrote it, I didn't steal it from some corpse because I haven't an original bone in my body.

[Fawkes]

so ill just do you, okay?
I'd really rather you don't do me, you seem rather unattractive.


You are bunch of dudes who most likely try to look as feminine as possible hoping girls dig that because you have absolutely no pride in the way you look.
Um, no. I look the way I want to because I want to look that way. And how about you stop assuming I'm hetero and dress solely to "get girls" ya fuckin idiot.


(You wouldn't get so defensive if you did)
You know why I get defensive you stupid piece of shit? Because what you're saying on here manifests itself this way in the real world:
"Hey, look at that green haired fag over there wearing a dress."
"Yeah, let's kick his ass"

Well guess what asshole, I'm that fag. And it's because of stupid motherfuckers like you that I constantly find myself in situations where I have to defend myself, lest I risk getting my ass kicked or even killed. And there are a lot of people out there that would dress or act in a certain way, but they don't out of fear of what may happen to them. So that's why I get defensive you stupid motherfucker.


You obviously dont go to the gym
The only picture of me I've ever posted on here is the one right next to my name -- and that's a crotch shot. But it's nice of you to show your total insecurities by bringing physical fitness into this, as if that has any bearing whatsoever.


double zero hollister jeans
I've never been in a hollister store, and my pant size is 32, or 9 in women's.


chicks that talk to you
Unlike how it seems you are, I'm not obsessed with getting "chicks" to talk to me. And for what it's worth, I had sex with a girl last weekend and you wanna know what I was wearing? A pink tutu and a blonde wig.


If you read what I said, I said I only listen to the music, I enjoy the lyrics of "bro-core" bands.
This was of course before you let slip the fact that you don't even go to shows, so you don't actually have any experience in how those lyrics manifest themselves and how the scene actually works. Fucking amateur.


Emo bands typically just falt out suck and screamo doesnt have decent instrumentals let alone vox or lyrics.
Dude, you really should stop embarrassing yourself more than you already have. No one even mentioned emo or screamo til you brought it up, and you obviously don't know shit about either, so you really should just stop.


The emo and screamo scene is filled with a bunch of kids without a good personality so they listen to popular music
Emo =/= screamo for one thing. Are you remotely experienced in the emo or screamo scenes, or are you just bullshitting again? And since when is emo or screamo popular at all?


fool themselves into thinking they have an identity.
Or fool themselves into thinking they're part of a brotherhood that gives them identity... oh wait...


See I dont have this problem because I devoloped a little thing we like to call "charm"
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


I could dress like the guy from the 6 flags commercial and girls would still like me because I am genuinely interesting.
Oh wow, you're such a ladies man.


You on the other hand dont have many peer interactions because you sit at the computer or in your room (probably the same place) all day.
Yeah, okay dude. This coming from the guy who talks about a bunch of different scenes that he has no interactions with at all.


Also I am much bigger than most drag queens and im in pretty good shape so I doubt they would really kick my ass
Please, do both the world and yourself a favor and come down to NYC for a night to give yourself a nice reality check.


drag queens try very hard to look and be feminine.
And of course women don't fight at all. You're making it pretty clear you've never once met a drag queen before. Take a random drag queen and a random FSU member or something and give me a choice between who would more likely be able to kick the shit out of me, hands down goes to the drag queen.


But like I said I am not homophobic
It's alright sugar, we can tell.


you must be homophobic because you are getting all offended when I called you gay for your tendencies.
? My tendencies? Hahaha, I guess I'm the first openly non-heterosexual homophobe then, considering how I'm into guys and all....

And also, what about my "tendencies" is it that makes me gay? You're signature says "You can't buy happiness, steal it" ooooooh, so you must be black then...


I never get mad if somebody calls me gay
I don't either, unless they are directly insulting my sexuality. Mind showing me where I got mad at you for calling me gay.


And every one of you militant weekend leftists are very delusional hypocrites
Honey, I'll be saying the same things monday.


You believe in all this freedom bullshit, freedom for this freedom for that, yet you want to ban me for saying the word "fag" and not even as a strike against homosexuals?
Perhaps I should quote myself, as you are apparently blind:

1. You're probably gonna get restricted or banned. I'm not saying I'm in favor of it, but you will.


Oh and to your whole "mine is right motherfuckers
What?


You basically just did the same thing back because you had a couple sceney weenies trying to tell me off.
bahahaha


You know what, I have yet to meet a scenester who was tough anywhere but the internet
Yes, cause we're all scenesters...


they get whipped at shows
Something you'd have first hand knowledge of, am I right?


yet they talk such a big game to girls
How fucking insecure about your sexuality do you have to be to keep going on this recurring theme of talking to girls?


It saddens me really.
Poor little guy


Oh and to the Nazi remark, fuck you. You label me a Nazi because you have no legitimate responses for me
Actually it's you who has failed to respond in any remotely intelligent way to anything we have said.


Oh and tell your buddy Che' or Marx (You know, those commie fags) how much you dislike strength, loyalty, and unity.
Oh yeah, cause that's what we've been saying all along :rolleyes:


They wouldn't even know what to say to you because there was no such thing as little retards like you back then, they would be in complete shock.
Yes, only big, strong, tough men like you.


Also, Ive realized you guys don't post in anything meaningful, I don't think either of you have a post in the politics or workers struggle threads.
Nice try, buddy. I've been here four years longer than you and have posted considerably more than your sub-100 post count. Not that that really means anything at all other than don't try to pull shit like that when you haven't even been around long enough to know where I've posted and what about. I've had more than my share of political posts... dumbass.


just get a fuckin facebook
I have one. Add me ;)


Also you see that quote in my signature?
Actually yes, and I believe I made a reference to it a few inches north of here.


Well I wrote it, I didn't steal it from some corpse because I haven't an original bone in my body.
Now we all know that Comrade J hasn't posted here in a while, but I would be very hesitant to say he is a corpse, and in fact, I think he'd find that rather insulting.



All in all, I think somebody sounds a little butthurt. (that's you)

[Aloysius]

I don't think you can compare Snowing, Algernon Cadwallader or Hightide Hotel to Jimmy Eat World, My Chemical Romance or Fall Out Boy, yet they are modern Emo.

I love you forever, if only because you listen/have listened to Snowing and Algernon Cadwallader (do you know the story behind that?). I think I'll check out Hightide Hotel.

The only picture of me I've ever posted on here is the one right next to my name -- and that's a crotch shot. But it's nice of you to show your total insecurities by bringing physical fitness into this, as if that has any bearing whatsoever.
I can dig it.

Also I am much bigger than most drag queens and im in pretty good shape so I doubt they would really kick my ass
Not that it matters, seeing as they would probably kick you square in the nuts with those sharp high heels, which they would maintain perfect balance in, by the way.

I've got to give mad props to cross-dressers and openly gay people though.

[Blackscare]

This is literally the best thread I've seen on this site since the Iraqi dogmeat debacle.




Rock on, bro, these people don't understand the importance of honor, loyalty, and doing chicks like every day because I'm totally not gay bro.

[ArrowLance]

Also, Ive realized you guys don't post in anything meaningful, I don't think either of you have a post in the politics or workers struggle threads. So why the fuck do you come here, just get a fuckin facebook, you'll probably relate to people better.

Also you see that quote in my signature? Yeah? Well I wrote it, I didn't steal it from some corpse because I haven't an original bone in my body.

So you have analyzed all of these other guys and decided that they don't post anything meaningful. I wonder if you have analyzed your own self, and what meaning you think you have brought.

As for quotes and 'originality', being overly egotistical and unwilling to defer to greater minds, or simply persons who may have influenced you or put it in better words, does not make you original. Instead it makes you quite the opposite, a dime a dozen, another egotistical next genius type. I would like to think that certain things I have said are quote worthy, in more than jest, but largely my own ideas are not original. Others came up with them before me, more completely than me, and expressed them more fluidly and meaningfully than I most likely ever could.

Just because you choose to identify with others and are willing to defer to others does not make you any less of an individual.

[Crux]

Obviously this board is full of emo rejects of society.
I do not discriminate people for their sexual preference.
I do however thinks it fucking retarded to dress like a fuckin chick to try to be popular. Oh and dress how they want without worrying what people think of them? Thats the whole fuckin reason they dress like that douche bag.

Also I do not consider myself apart of any "scene" because I do not go to show. The death-core kids are fags who like to hit girls, and most hardcore shows are non existent in my area because my city is on the brink of death. Also I do not shave my head, I do not wear any hardcore band apparel (other than a few really hard punk bands t's and a suicide machines hoodie) I dress like a typical working class individual. I wear plain jeans, and plain shirts most of the time. Sometimes I wear athletic shorts, but only because they are very comfortable. I never wear hats, and I buy the oo's skate shoes which are always short tops and wide based. My hair just covers my ears but I dont style it in any fashion so its a little curly. I do not mind looking average because I developed something called a personality.
I do not need to be flamboyant to get attention or join any clique. Most of my friends are nerds or they skate, and a couple musicians.
Im not trans or homophobic. I say fag sometimes (not as derogatory to gay people) but because its an insult that holds weight.
Im sick of leftist communities trying to label me something im not through strawman outlets.

I know what I speak of and you guys sound like a bunch of kids who didnt have enough friends in highschool and spent so much time on forum boards that you label others inferior because you have a couple buzzwords you like to throw around.

And quite calling me a reactionary you fucking idiots, because teens in your circles are the ones who consider themselves very right elitists. Im sick of you fucking idiots, you remind me of street punks who have nothing better to say but try to prove others disloyalty to the cause and out them as a poser, when in realities terms, they only do so so they can feel like they're from some sort of elite few. Well news flash, douches bags are very abundant.
Why hello there internet tough guy. You sound like a poser. Just a friendly tip, stop being a fucking homophobe and a douchebag or you will probably disappear from here.
Also, yeah the music was alright, I prefer these faggots though:
DyaKvANgHHg

[cb9's_unity]

You are bunch of dudes who most likely try to look as feminine as possible hoping girls dig that because you have absolutely no pride in the way you look. (You wouldn't get so defensive if you did) You obviously dont go to the gym other wise those double zero hollister jeans might tear in an uncool fashion and then the chicks that talk to you would decrease from two to none.Can I read "you have no pride in the way you look" as "you don't conform to traditional standards of masculinity"?

I'm a straight male and I've bought and worn size 0 girls jeans and male skinny jeans. Should I be ashamed of something that makes me feel comfortable with how I look? Do you have a problem with the fact that I'm skinny and very rarely go to the gym? Does that not fit your standards of traditional masculinity?

And how about you stop trying to apply the worst abuses of trendy scene kids to anyone remotely interested in emo, or screamo, or whatever. Yes, there are certainly scene kids who simply dress the way they do to attract girls. Every social group has its shallow assholes. However I know plenty of "scene" kids who are cool despite a lot of their music being, imo, total shit.

You need to take your head out of your petty high school politics. Arguing over social groups, or scenes, or cliques have no importance if you don't place importance on them.

[razboz]

Someone needs to lock this thread before anyone gets banned or restricted. A lot of what you all are saying is going dangerously close to "my scene is better than yours, because my scene could beat yours up". We need to move away from this.

I agree with Fawkes that banning A Proletarian Manifesto would be a bad idea, but his ideas are sexist, transphobic, homophobic and fascist in the following ways, and should get him banned if this forum upholds its own rules:

How APM is homo/transphobic:

I do however thinks it fucking retarded to dress like a fuckin chick to try to be popular.It's "retarded" to dress like a "fuckin chick" when you are not, in order to please some kind of social pressure. The argument is simple.No-one in their right mind would ever cross-dress. Therefore, any cross-dressing must be the result of some kind of personality imbalance, or worse illness. And indeed, APM goes to great length to emphasise how his opponents in this argument are mentally unfit. Of course this is a dangerous line of argument because a) fascists, right-wingers and other notorious homophobes have used it to justify 're-education', internment and eventually extermination for those who dress in any other way than what their gender role allows them to, and b) because it closes down debate and dialogue by not giving your opponent mental agency to argue.


The death-core kids are fags who like to hit girlsHere the implication is that this particular 'scene' is composed of "fags" who again, are not really fags but only want to sleep with girls. Your opposition to this is evidently not based on the exploitative nature of these relationships, but rather a prfound concern for the links between appearance and reality. This begins to betray a fundamental insecurity, which runs deep in all of APM's writtings in this thread. This insecurity centers around the need for all things to be as they seem. In the end this is why he is opposed to 'cross'-dressers and those who build up their own gender identities.


I do not need to be flamboyant to get attention or join any clique.Indeed in this passage, we can see how APM cares vary much about honestly presenting himself, and making sure everyone else does as well. But the flaw in his argument lies in assuming that all or most (or any) people who cross-dress, or dress in ways he thinks are girly, are doing so dishonestly. Instead what he is doing is projecting personal definitions, and then be afraid when the world around fails to conform to these definitions. This is an important way of ensuring social control, because fear of things that are undefinable means there is huge social pressure to be something you can define, and considering most meaning is decided by academics and the media it means the system perpetuates itself.


I say fag sometimes (not as derogatory to gay people) but because its an insult that holds weight.'Fag' holds weight precisely because it is derogatory to gay people. It is a way of reinforcing identities, most likely APM's own heterosexual identity. In turn what it does is maintain all of the most fundamental systems of control.

Also APM says fag a lot, not just "sometimes".

APM's language is offensive, poorly expressed and against Revleft rules. But this is not why his ideas and words are so hurtful. They are hurtful because in the real world, they hurt real people (as Fawkes mentioned). They make it so no-one can chose who they want to be, lest they fall outside a ready-made category. They make so that when you do fall outside of the boxes you are an enemy to all that is good (you know: loyalty and penises and shit). And people get sad, get hurt and get killed because of bigots like A Proletarian Manifesto.

And my signature? I made it from old things i read. Maybe you can make new ideas out of old ones, just like you can make new identities of the ruins of the old ones?

[EvilRedGuy]

What the fuck is wrong with you fucking peoples? The Proletarian Manifesto is a fucking homophobe and transphobe, shouldn't he get restricted? And why are you discriminating against peoples peoples who to a specific scene? Dumb fuck leave peoples alone, everyone here are dumb fucks if they say "X music is shit" BECAUSE ITS FUCKING A MATTER OF TASTE AND OPINION, ITS SUBJECTIVE. Read on on the thing called "subjectivity", you stupid fucks you make me fucking angry. Seriously.

PS- Stop using homphobic, sexist, transphobic, racist, etc degorative words like "fag" "*****" "cocksucker" its pathetic, just like 85% majority on YouTube who says things like this.

[Widerstand]

You are bunch of dudes who most likely try to look as feminine as possible hoping girls dig that because you have absolutely no pride in the way you look.

Maybe I take pride in looking feminine? Or maybe I don't even look feminine (I wouldn't say I do). What the fuck makes you think you know anything about me or anyone here?

So, explain to me, why are guys who dress "feminine" weak? Because it's unnatural?


(You wouldn't get so defensive if you did)

Yes right. Speaking out against a scene full of transphobic and homphobic bullies is a sign of "weakness." Or maybe I don't base my pride around how I look? Or maybe I don't buy in on the patriarch notion that "GUYS NEED TO HAVE PRIDE!!!"?



You obviously dont go to the gym

Another reproduction of patriarch gender roles. Yup keep them coming.


Emo bands typically just falt out suck and screamo doesnt have decent instrumentals let alone vox or lyrics. The emo and screamo scene is filled with a bunch of kids without a good personality so they listen to popular music to try to get some friends or at least fool themselves into thinking they have an identity.

What's a "good personality?"

And what the fuck do you know about the screamo scene? I thought you never go to shows?

Well let me teach you a few things about the screamo scene:

yKShsTf6790

You might even see me in that one ^ Look at all these nasty crossdressers just trying to get girls!

Or look at these:

FFjn-igi7t4

Just listen to these boring instrumentals and this 0815 vox:

ypbDkiCY6VQ

And you know what? Even the "scenester shit" you hate so much is more political than your fucking FSU bully anthems.

3hmFu2fH0Bw

This video is about a guy who "dresses like a chick" and "gets told." Just what you'd do, huh?


You on the other hand dont have many peer interactions because you sit at the computer or in your room (probably the same place) all day.

Yet I've been to more bro-core shows than you, so what does that tell me about you?


You believe in all this freedom bullshit, freedom for this freedom for that, yet you want to ban me for saying the word "fag" and not even as a strike against homosexuals?

"Fag" is always a strike against homosexuals because it reinforces the belief that "being gay" is something one should be offended/insulted about.



Oh and to your whole "mine is right motherfuckers"

It's not about "mine is right." I started by telling you that these scene is patriarchal and trans-/homophobic. I didn't even have you in mind. You then went to great lengths to prove me right and show that it can also apply to people who just listen to the music and don't belong the scene.


You know what, I have yet to meet a scenester who was tough anywhere but the internet, they get whipped at school, they get whipped at shows, they get whipped at the mall, yet they talk such a big game to girls, or when theyre on the internet.
It saddens me really.

You know what, just because you talk about scenesters so much: All the scenesters I was at school with could've prolly kicked your ass. They all were amongst the strongest in the whole year, had the best sports grades, were the bulkiest, etc. Just shut up if you have no fucking clue what you're talking about. Do you even know "the scene?" I'd guess not.



Oh and to the Nazi remark, fuck you. You label me a Nazi because you have no legitimate responses for me.

Yeah, as opposed to you who makes valid points by calling us "fags".



Oh and tell your buddy Che' or Marx (You know, those commie fags) how much you dislike strength, loyalty, and unity. They wouldn't even know what to say to you because there was no such thing as little retards like you back then, they would be in complete shock.

They'd prolly applaud us for not adopting stupid fascist values.


Also, Ive realized you guys don't post in anything meaningful, I don't think either of you have a post in the politics or workers struggle threads.

You clearly don't go to Politics if you think I don't post there. You also clearly don't go to Discrimination, else we wouldn't have to explain all this shit to you. But then again it's prolly better, 'cos I guess they'd get you banned pretty fast if you throw all that trans-/homophobic trash around.



So why the fuck do you come here, just get a fuckin facebook, you'll probably relate to people better.

Why hun, I have one, do you want some?


I love you forever, if only because you listen/have listened to Snowing and Algernon Cadwallader (do you know the story behind that?). I think I'll check out Hightide Hotel.

What Story? But yeah, Hightide Hotel sounds pretty much like Cap'n Jazz (or like Snowing or Algernon), as do most those Midwest Revival bands ;s


What the fuck is wrong with you fucking peoples? The Proletarian Manifesto is a fucking homophobe and transphobe, shouldn't he get restricted? And why are you discriminating against peoples peoples who to a specific scene? Dumb fuck leave peoples alone, everyone here are dumb fucks if they say "X music is shit" BECAUSE ITS FUCKING A MATTER OF TASTE AND OPINION, ITS SUBJECTIVE. Read on on the thing called "subjectivity", you stupid fucks you make me fucking angry. Seriously.

Sadly, "taste of music" stops being subjective when people adopt idiotic attitudes from the music they listen to. Which doesn't mean they necessarily do, there are plenty of people listening to Burzum who don't hate blacks, but I think this thread just proves that a lot of people do. And that's exactly why these things need to be brought up, imo.

I don't think APM should get restricted or banned, but he probably will if he doesn't start reflecting his behaviors. Sadly I have a feeling that critical examination of one's attitudes is considered "weak."

[Across The Street]

back to the topic at hand:

Blood For Blood

Ain't Like You
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-4gJXdPSSw

Sick Of It All

Take The Night Off
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff_V0hHCTCw&feature=related

[Across The Street]

back to the topic at hand:

Blood For Blood

Ain't Like You
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-4gJXdPSSw

Sick Of It All

Take The Night Off
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff_V0hHCTCw&feature=related

[Fawkes]

Sick of It All is a stretch as far as calling them "tough guy" or whatever, but they're a fucking awesome band. Blood For Blood is good too, though I would hate to be White Trash Rob, it must suck to be that angry all the time.

[Fawkes]

Someone needs to lock this thread before anyone gets banned or restricted. A lot of what you all are saying is going dangerously close to "my scene is better than yours, because my scene could beat yours up". We need to move away from this.

I agree with Fawkes that banning A Proletarian Manifesto would be a bad idea, but his ideas are sexist, transphobic, homophobic and fascist in the following ways, and should get him banned if this forum upholds its own rules:

How APM is homo/transphobic:
It's "retarded" to dress like a "fuckin chick" when you are not, in order to please some kind of social pressure. The argument is simple.No-one in their right mind would ever cross-dress. Therefore, any cross-dressing must be the result of some kind of personality imbalance, or worse illness. And indeed, APM goes to great length to emphasise how his opponents in this argument are mentally unfit. Of course this is a dangerous line of argument because a) fascists, right-wingers and other notorious homophobes have used it to justify 're-education', internment and eventually extermination for those who dress in any other way than what their gender role allows them to, and b) because it closes down debate and dialogue by not giving your opponent mental agency to argue.

Here the implication is that this particular 'scene' is composed of "fags" who again, are not really fags but only want to sleep with girls. Your opposition to this is evidently not based on the exploitative nature of these relationships, but rather a prfound concern for the links between appearance and reality. This begins to betray a fundamental insecurity, which runs deep in all of APM's writtings in this thread. This insecurity centers around the need for all things to be as they seem. In the end this is why he is opposed to 'cross'-dressers and those who build up their own gender identities.

Indeed in this passage, we can see how APM cares vary much about honestly presenting himself, and making sure everyone else does as well. But the flaw in his argument lies in assuming that all or most (or any) people who cross-dress, or dress in ways he thinks are girly, are doing so dishonestly. Instead what he is doing is projecting personal definitions, and then be afraid when the world around fails to conform to these definitions. This is an important way of ensuring social control, because fear of things that are undefinable means there is huge social pressure to be something you can define, and considering most meaning is decided by academics and the media it means the system perpetuates itself.

'Fag' holds weight precisely because it is derogatory to gay people. It is a way of reinforcing identities, most likely APM's own heterosexual identity. In turn what it does is maintain all of the most fundamental systems of control.

Also APM says fag a lot, not just "sometimes".

APM's language is offensive, poorly expressed and against Revleft rules. But this is not why his ideas and words are so hurtful. They are hurtful because in the real world, they hurt real people (as Fawkes mentioned). They make it so no-one can chose who they want to be, lest they fall outside a ready-made category. They make so that when you do fall outside of the boxes you are an enemy to all that is good (you know: loyalty and penises and shit). And people get sad, get hurt and get killed because of bigots like A Proletarian Manifesto.

And my signature? I made it from old things i read. Maybe you can make new ideas out of old ones, just like you can make new identities of the ruins of the old ones?

ziiiiing.


Just for the record, as far as the "my scene can beat up your scene" thing, I had not intention of continuing some internet proxy-war over whose tougher, rather just to point out how APM knows nothing about what happens in the real world considering how he thinks of drag queens and anyone remotely "fem" as being docile and unwilling to defend themselves.


The Proletarian Manifesto is a fucking homophobe and transphobe, shouldn't he get restricted?
I'm starting to agree with you, the only reason I am hesitant is that a lot of the stuff APM is saying is not at all dissimilar from things I may have thought or said a few years ago, and I think alienation (not that that particularly stems from an internet board) could serve to only further these insecurities. But the more overt his homo/transphobia is becoming, the more I'm starting to agree with you.

[PilesOfDeadNazis]

Okay im not going to answer all of you self righteous retards so ill just do you, okay?
You are bunch of dudes who most likely try to look as feminine as possible hoping girls dig that because you have absolutely no pride in the way you look. (You wouldn't get so defensive if you did) You obviously dont go to the gym other wise those double zero hollister jeans might tear in an uncool fashion and then the chicks that talk to you would decrease from two to none.

If you read what I said, I said I only listen to the music, I enjoy the lyrics of "bro-core" bands. Emo bands typically just falt out suck and screamo doesnt have decent instrumentals let alone vox or lyrics. The emo and screamo scene is filled with a bunch of kids without a good personality so they listen to popular music to try to get some friends or at least fool themselves into thinking they have an identity. See I dont have this problem because I devoloped a little thing we like to call "charm", I could dress like the guy from the 6 flags commercial and girls would still like me because I am genuinely interesting. You on the other hand dont have many peer interactions because you sit at the computer or in your room (probably the same place) all day.

Also I am much bigger than most drag queens and im in pretty good shape so I doubt they would really kick my ass seeing as drag queens try very hard to look and be feminine. But like I said I am not homophobic, I would never make fun of a person for their sexual preference, you must be homophobic because you are getting all offended when I called you gay for your tendencies. See you could ask other esteemed members of this board that are on the TPU forum, I never get mad if somebody calls me gay, I usually just go along with it.

And every one of you militant weekend leftists are very delusional hypocrites. You believe in all this freedom bullshit, freedom for this freedom for that, yet you want to ban me for saying the word "fag" and not even as a strike against homosexuals?

Oh and to your whole "mine is right motherfuckers"
You basically just did the same thing back because you had a couple sceney weenies trying to tell me off.
You know what, I have yet to meet a scenester who was tough anywhere but the internet, they get whipped at school, they get whipped at shows, they get whipped at the mall, yet they talk such a big game to girls, or when theyre on the internet.
It saddens me really.

Oh and to the Nazi remark, fuck you. You label me a Nazi because you have no legitimate responses for me.

Oh and tell your buddy Che' or Marx (You know, those commie fags) how much you dislike strength, loyalty, and unity. They wouldn't even know what to say to you because there was no such thing as little retards like you back then, they would be in complete shock.
First of all, it's "MIGHT is Right". Learn to read.

And no, people getting offended at such a dumbass insult as "fag" are not homophobic, it's usually the ignorant fuck who throws words like that around who are secretly scared of gay people.

Why are you so worried about what other people wear? It seems like you're the one that's making fashion part of the scene. Oh, wait...you're not a part of a fucking scene. Don't most tough guy hardcore kids call people who claim to be in to the music but never go to shows to support a name? Yeah, I think it's "poser". But to people who like to actually act like adults, that isn't really a big deal.

However, despite me not getting along with you, I would like you to teach me this magic you use to know exactly what people look like and wear in real life when you have only interacted with them on an anonymous forum. Let me give it a try:
From what you have said in the thread, I gather that you are a wanna-be hardcore kid complaining about the scene and yet never going to any shows, but somehow promoting unity and loyalty to one's local scene. If you were to go to shows, I expect you just sit in the back and whine your flat-billed hat off and hide your face behind a bandana to look badass. You were also probably rejected by every other possible social groups, since you are so insecure as to have to make yourself feel as if you're somehow above "fags" and girls because they can't defend themselves apparantly?

Was that a good try?

What's with the rant about how you can get girls too? No one here except you even cares. You're clearly just trying even harder to look like a super-cool kid who everyone wants to be. If I were you, I would probably just stay inside. The rest of the world, with all of it's differences of opinion and such, would scare my tough little hardcore mind too much.

Your arguments in the last post:
"I'm tougher than drag queens! So there!"
"I can get girls because I'm charming."
*insert completely uninformed statements about users on this board here*
"Emos suck! Did I mention I'm tough?"

Insecurity is fun to watch, but damn.

[PilesOfDeadNazis]

Also, Ive realized you guys don't post in anything meaningful, I don't think either of you have a post in the politics or workers struggle threads. So why the fuck do you come here, just get a fuckin facebook, you'll probably relate to people better.

Also you see that quote in my signature? Yeah? Well I wrote it, I didn't steal it from some corpse because I haven't an original bone in my body.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
YOU are telling US that we use this forum as a boring social network, yet at the same fucking time, you're bragging about your fucking signature like it's your Myspace profile or some shit.

I don't care what you say about me since you've been here a whole THREE MONTHS before me, but where the fuck do you get off saying that shit about Fawkes?

WE aren't the ones making RevLeft a popularity contest, Mister Cool Signature. But if you want to play that shit, at least make sure you don't say it about someone with well over a thousand posts more than yourself. Again, however, adults don't usually care about stuff like that.

[Meridian]

Can't we come to a compromise and all agree that emo, screamo, lamo, harcore, core-emo, emo-core, screamo-core, lamecore, metalcore, corecore, and corecorecore all suck?

Music is not about look, or getting friends/laid, or whatever. So posting about it doesn't even belong in this forum.

[Lee Van Cleef]

Posts in this thread.
I have been involved in the hardcore punk scene for a long time, and it is always disappointing to run into people with attitudes similar to those you are expressing.

Even if we discount your use of certain words, your attitudes towards how people dress, "getting girls," physical strength, and such, all betray some very sexist and homophobic tendencies.

If you have a car, I highly recommend looking out for shows in Syracuse. Last I heard they still had a very active scene there. It would be a good experience for you to go out and meet positive people in the punk community instead of building on this reactionary fantasy you have, grounded in the worst of the "bro-core" bands. They are called that for a reason, and it is not a term of endearment.

[Blackscare]

A Broletarian Manifesto's frat buddies from Florida:


http://g4tv.com/videos/26812/Code-Monkeys-Frat-House/




I love Code Monkeys :D

[Stand Your Ground]

I like Terror, Sick Of It All, Blood For Blood..there's more but I don't feel like glancing through my music.

I have a Terror 'Fuck Racism' shirt too. :cool:

[Blackscare]

I have a Terror 'Fuck Racism' shirt too. :cool:



lol, there was a cancer fundraiser the local hardcore kids put on a few years back called "fuck cancer"

[Aloysius]

What Story?
The story behind the name of the band. Apparently, a mutual friend of the band members had a cat named Algernon Cadwallader. One day, the apartment building the guy was living at had a fire drill (emphasis: drill), and he ran back into the building screaming "I've gotta get Algernon! I've got to save him!"
After he got the cat and came down, the landlord kicked him out because they weren't supposed to have pets in the building.

I don't think I've seen Snowing live, but I've seen Prawn, Algernon Cadwallader and a few other Midwest/East coast indie emo groups.

[Sasha]

is this still about an certain style of music or just an pathetic flame war? you lot better keep it on topic or its of too the trash with one.

[Widerstand]

is this still about an certain style of music or just an pathetic flame war? you lot better keep it on topic or its of too the trash with one.

It's an emotional discussion about the scene and ideals associated with the music discussed.

[gorillafuck]

Proletarian Manifesto is gonna kick yer ass.

[Revolutionair]

Reading the 1st page of this thread makes me realize, that you people use way too much drugs.

[Aloysius]

I don't think I use enough...
I'm not a big fan of "bro-core". For me, it's either '80s glam-rock, post-punk, Fugazi (I don't listen to much early emo, like Rites of Spring), or Midwest/East coast indie/emo.
I can listen to it (bro-core), but it just doesn't hold much appeal for me.

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

Lmfao, you little sceeny weenies are just feeding off each other and getting your self righteous panties in a bunch. I actually dont care if you think im a homophobe, because all of you are using informal fallacies like a mother fucker to try to win when clearly you're just throwing around buzzwords and think you have compiled an actual offense.

Homophobia isn't words that people type to a screen, it's a hatred in you're heart. If I hated gay people I would say so, throwing around a word isn't anything. It's human nature to want to say unacceptable words, thats what gives them an impact. I dont see you going around calling people a noodle or a blockhead. You're clearly just an internet dweeb who has a holier than thou attitude.

I dedicate this to the four sword swallower's in this thread.

LsRXMZDfU_U

[Fawkes]

Dude, you're tough.

P.S. Remember how you just got owned?

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

Dude, you're tough.

P.S. Remember how you just got owned?

I honestly didnt read them, im guessing you re-wrote the same things in new context(doubt the new context though)

You guys wrote too many really long responses on a subject I just dont give a fuck about.
Keep the posts or amount of posts shorter next time.

[PilesOfDeadNazis]

I honestly didnt read them, im guessing you re-wrote the same things in new context(doubt the new context though)

You guys wrote too many really long responses on a subject I just dont give a fuck about.
Keep the posts or amount of posts shorter next time.
lolz at you givng no real response whatsoever other than calling us sceney weenies and complaining about us not being the ones with arguments.

I understand that my post, along with some others, might have been a little too long for you to keep up with. If you don't care then stop posting? Not a hard concept.

But I do apologize for not sticking to the topic.
What is considered ''tough guy hardcore''? I have heard 2 different styles be called that:
-Pretty good modern bands who still sound mostly like the original shit in the 80s.
or
-Fucking horrible, breakdown-filled, no substance shit like Bury Your Dead and Seventh Star.

[EvilRedGuy]

Just shut up APM.

[Amphictyonis]

I'm not into any sort of deterministic gender roles.

[razboz]

I honestly didnt read them, im guessing you re-wrote the same things in new context(doubt the new context though)

You guys wrote too many really long responses on a subject I just dont give a fuck about.
Keep the posts or amount of posts shorter next time.

Just because you obviously are not able to follow this thread here are the main points (that i've made and that i agree with, all of which are off topic):


Your discourse reinforces gender roles such as dressing like men, strength, loyalty and pride for men or dressing like girls and being meek for girls. It follows you are a male chauvinist.
The things you have said reinforce status quo position that transgendered or non-gender normative identites (men dressing and acting like women, or whoever the fuck they chose to be etc) are dangerous and dishonest (and unnatural). It follows you are trans/homophobic.
You have no idea of what any scene looks like because, by your own admission, you have not been involved in one. It follows you should STFU about it.
All of the above are dangerous in real-world ways because people act on the kind of things you say and repress themselves, repress others and eventually it spills out in gendered violence.
You are breaking Revleft rules.

[Amphictyonis]

http://www.revleft.com/vb/feminism-and-origin-t144279/index.html

I'd be interested to discuss why some people are not up in arms happy about "bro core/Tough guy hardcore" in this thread (^above ^). I'm not a pacifist so violence, to me, isn't some meat head male thing and music is music so I'm not uber PC about it. I'm more so of the opinion us revolutionaries should at lest be aware of the gender roles we play as a result of our relation to the means of production.

Engels late works would be of interest to some pf the posters in this thread :) The origin of family perhaps.

[Widerstand]

Keep the posts or amount of posts shorter next time.

That was my point:

http://www.hellfishfamily.com/content/uploads/productimages/TA_phelps.jpg

you're a fucking homophobe/transphobe/male chauvinist.

[Fawkes]

But I do apologize for not sticking to the topic.
What is considered ''tough guy hardcore''? I have heard 2 different styles be called that:
-Pretty good modern bands who still sound mostly like the original shit in the 80s.
or
-Fucking horrible, breakdown-filled, no substance shit like Bury Your Dead and Seventh Star.

As with all genre categorizations, these things are incredibly transient and subjective, but for the most part, the first group of bands you're referring to are generally termed old-school hardcore or hardcore punk (punk being the operative word). Tough guy hardcore generally refers to the "can I fit one more breakdown into this song?" and "is chocolate or vanilla a better flavor for protein shakes?" type of stuff, and that is what is being referenced in this thread.

[gorillafuck]

It's human nature to want to say unacceptable words, thats what gives them an impact.
No it's not, dumbass.

You're such a tool.

[Amphictyonis]

Obviously this board is full of emo rejects of society.

I think its fucking retarded to dress like a fuckin chick to try to be popular.

Also I do not consider myself apart of any "scene" because I do not go to show. The death-core kids are fags.

Also I do not shave my head, I do not wear any hardcore band apparel (other than a few really hard punk bands t's and a suicide machines hoodie)

I wear plain jeans, and plain shirts most of the time. Sometimes I wear athletic shorts, but only because they are very comfortable. I never wear hats, and I buy the oo's skate shoes which are always short tops and wide based. My hair just covers my ears but I dont style it in any fashion so its a little curly. I do not mind looking average because I developed something called a personality.


I do not need to be flamboyant to get attention or join any clique.

I say fag sometimes (not as derogatory to gay people) but because its an insult that holds weight.


I know what I speak of



CGeAMVK75T4

[blake 3:17]

I was watching a documentary about the great early American hardcore band the Minutemen, and Mike Watt talked about an early show of their's, which of a bunch of Orange County faux punks came to and managed to smash up a nice working class youth centre - broke their doors and bathrooms, etc. That seems to be the mentality of "bro-core" fuck that I'm a riot grrl

[gorillafuck]

I don't see why people have such a problem with this music though, as much of a moron as APM is.

[The Douche]

Bands like terror, madball, blood for blood and death before dishonor should really not be lumped in with "tough-guy", I mean, I guess you could say that, but they're more "heavy hardcore", whereas bands like xTyrantx and Seventh Star are "tough guy".

I like the NYC, Boston, Baltimore, and LBU sound. Which is heavy (or tough guy if you must), and I front a band which is related to this sound. I also have friends in crews, and I would probably be seen as a tough guy by most posters here (who know what it means/what the context is).

That said, I listen to touche amore and la dispute every day.

[gorillafuck]

and I would probably be seen as a tough guy by most posters here (who know what it means/what the context is).
Criteria for being a tough guy

1. Being a douchebag
2. Trying to show off how tough you are

If you meet both of those you are a tough guy.

[Fawkes]

You got a link for your band? Blood For Blood's just fucking angry all the time and they're FSU, which is why they get called tough guy or whatever. I don't know to what degree I agree with that, but it's genres, they're not set in stone anyway and they really don't mean too much. I got some friends in crews here too in NYC, it's kinda lame I think, but some of the people themselves are cool. The way I think of it is we're all in the same boat, we're all at this show together, we like a lot of the same shit, we're a fuckin crew of our own, we don't need any of the division and fighting shit, the youth's already divided enough as it is. That said, ignoring the subcultural aspects, from a musical standpoint, a lot of the bro-core or whatever you wanna call is just kinda boring to me, particularly lyrically, but there definitely are some great bands in there.

[The Douche]

Criteria for being a tough guy

1. Being a douchebag
2. Trying to show off how tough you are

If you meet both of those you are a tough guy.

Well both of those are pretty subjective, huh?

[gorillafuck]

Well both of those are pretty subjective, huh?
Well you can't really objectively prove whether someone matches a certain personality category (is that what it'd be called?) regardless of what it is.

I was just giving my opinion on what I view as a tough guy.

[The Douche]

You got a link for your band? Blood For Blood's just fucking angry all the time and they're FSU, which is why they get called tough guy or whatever. I don't know to what degree I agree with that, but it's genres, they're not set in stone anyway and they really don't mean too much. I got some friends in crews here too in NYC, it's kinda lame I think, but some of the people themselves are cool. The way I think of it is we're all in the same boat, we're all at this show together, we like a lot of the same shit, we're a fuckin crew of our own, we don't need any of the division and fighting shit, the youth's already divided enough as it is. That said, ignoring the subcultural aspects, from a musical standpoint, a lot of the bro-core or whatever you wanna call is just kinda boring to me, particularly lyrically, but there definitely are some great bands in there.

Yeah, my friends are also FSU. But that doesn't make us or them "tough guys", you don't see that "mesh shorts, fitted hats" around here.

Crews are fine, I think me and my friends are kind of seen as a crew even though we don't refer to ourselves as such. Its stupid when kids try to act like its a gang or just act like bullies though.

No link yet, I'll send you a pm when our music is online though. We have a similiar sound to like, Cleveland bands (PB2K and OLC, but w/o the reactionary politics).

[The Douche]

Well you can't really objectively prove whether someone matches a certain personality category (is that what it'd be called?) regardless of what it is.

I was just giving my opinion on what I view as a tough guy.

Yeah, thats why I meant "tough guy" as in the context of "tough guy hardcore" and the broader hardcore scene.

[PilesOfDeadNazis]

That said, I listen to touche amore and la dispute every day.
Love you.


And xTyrantx is fucking awful. I'm surprised I forgot to mention them. xAFBx sucks too. However, and I might regret saying this, I do like Recon.

[GiantBear91]

Two words... Agnostic Front... Even though I have heard that they have conservative values... their music still sounds great.

[The Douche]

Two words... Agnostic Front... Even though I have heard that they have conservative values... their music still sounds great.

Here's the lyrics to the song "Public Assistance":




You spend your life on welfare lines
Or looking for handouts
Why don't you go find a job
You birth more kids to up your checks
So you can buy more drugs
Cash in food stamps and get drunk

[Chorus:]
Uncle Sam takes half my pay
So you can live for free
I got a family and bills to pay
No one hands money to me
You can go to school for nothing
Got that government grant
Get money in advance
When you're sick from shooting up
Medicaid pays full portion
When little Maria gets knocked up
She gets a free abortion

[Chorus]

How come it's minorities who cry
Things are too tough
On TV with their gold chains
Claim they don't have enough
I say make them clean the sewers
Don't take no resistance
If they don't like it go to hell
And cut their public assistan




I still like AF, I wear their merch etc. They have songs that attack the rich and racists, even an album named "dead yuppies". This kind of sentiment is typical of a divided working class under attack by the bourgeoisie, its certainly a sentiment we have all probably come into contact with. I'm not going to defend the lyrics in this song in any way, but yeah....

[Widerstand]

That said, I listen to touche amore and la dispute every day.

Much love.

[The Douche]

Much love.

Nah fuck you, you weak piece of shit.:laugh:


The funny thing is, the OP, like 4 months ago was all about being super "punx". And I have seen pictures of this nerd and he is not tough, or intimidating at all.

[Fawkes]

Two words... Agnostic Front... Even though I have heard that they have conservative values... their music still sounds great.

There's just something about Roger Miret's voice that I can't fucking stand, they're still a good band though. The Disasters are not really, however.

[A Proletarian Manifesto]

Nah fuck you, you weak piece of shit.:laugh:


The funny thing is, the OP, like 4 months ago was all about being super "punx". And I have seen pictures of this nerd and he is not tough, or intimidating at all.

Are you refering to me as "op"?
Because if so I was never about being "super punx" ever.

[Palingenisis]

Are you refering to me as "op"?
Because if so I was never about being "super punx" ever.

Look I try to maintain of GothoStalinist view of rock music.

But fair play to the OP.....Your critics remind of the so-called "left wing" scum in England who attacked working class kids because they had shaved head and tatooes for supposedly looking like fash or whatever. These overly PC dreamers hate real working class people when they meet them....Their leftism is dreamy perpetual student waffling.

[gorillafuck]

Look I try to maintain of GothoStalinist view of rock music.

But fair play to the OP.....Your critics remind of the so-called "left wing" scum in England who attacked working class kids because they had shaved head and tatooes for supposedly looking like fash or whatever. These overly PC dreamers hate real working class people when they meet them....Their leftism is dreamy perpetual student waffling.
In the US it's common for "leftists" to have a hatred or disdain for rural people.

[Palingenisis]

In the US it's common for "leftists" to have a hatred or disdain for rural people.

Why so?

[Palingenisis]

Culchie girls here have the bad habit of not shaving their armpits...I thought y'll would approve of such?:confused:

[gorillafuck]

Why so?
Redneck stereotypes

[The Douche]

Are you refering to me as "op"?
Because if so I was never about being "super punx" ever.

Dog, I've seen pictures of you. You once told somebody (who has actually been active in the anarchist movement in a big way) that he "wasn't a real anarchist" and his "anarchy wasn't from the punx community". You then made an internet thread about hardcore, and started jocking every band he posted. APM, don't you live in upstate new york? There is a massive hardcore scene up there man, yet you've never been to a show? :laugh:


But fair play to the OP.....Your critics remind of the so-called "left wing" scum in England who attacked working class kids because they had shaved head and tatooes for supposedly looking like fash or whatever. These overly PC dreamers hate real working class people when they meet them....Their leftism is dreamy perpetual student waffling.

Fair play to this:


Oh and tell your buddy Che' or Marx (You know, those commie fags

Yeah, cool, fair play.:rolleyes:

I don't like this nerd cause he's full of shit, fronts so hard on the internet, is reactionary as fuck, and gives the hardcore scene a bad name.



There was a time when this website banned people for homophobia, guess now you can only get banned for criticising the politics of admins.:rolleyes:

[Jazzratt]

There was a time when this website banned people for homophobia, guess now you can only get banned for criticising the politics of admins.:rolleyes: I didn't see this thread for too long. The problem's been dealt with.

[Widerstand]

Look I try to maintain of GothoStalinist view of rock music.

But fair play to the OP.....Your critics remind of the so-called "left wing" scum in England who attacked working class kids because they had shaved head and tatooes for supposedly looking like fash or whatever. These overly PC dreamers hate real working class people when they meet them....Their leftism is dreamy perpetual student waffling.

I don't care how people look really. I'm pretty tolerant, but I draw the line at openly transphobic and homophobic statements. Nothing to do with "overly PC dreaming." Unconditional tolerance is bourgeois bullshit.

[Palingenisis]

I don't care how people look really. I'm pretty tolerant, but I draw the line at openly transphobic and homophobic statements. Nothing to do with "overly PC dreaming." Unconditional tolerance is bourgeois bullshit.

He made it clear that he wasnt homophobic.

Fact....Plenty of working class blue collar make pride in being masculine and see it as class divide between them and the middle class who they regard as effete...Thats just a fact. And if it ever comes to an insurgency its those types that we will be counting on and not people who have read to much Adrono or whatever he is called. Sometimes you get the feeling here that people's leftism is just some sort of subcultural game and they yall have no contact with normal working people who actually have jobs in factories and live on shitty council estates, etc.

[Widerstand]

He made it clear that he wasnt homophobic.

Fact....Plenty of working class blue collar make pride in being masculine and see it as class divide between them and the middle class who they regard as effete...Thats just a fact. And if it ever comes to an insurgency its those types that we will be counting on and not people who have read to much Adrono or whatever he is called. Sometimes you get the feeling here that people's leftism is just some sort of subcultural game and they yall have no contact with normal working people who actually have jobs in factories and live on shitty council estates, etc.

Oh believe me, there are plenty of working class people that don't throw around shit like "all emos are fags who got bullied at school and should get beat up."

[#FF0000]

He made it clear that he wasnt homophobic.

Fact....Plenty of working class blue collar make pride in being masculine and see it as class divide between them and the middle class who they regard as effete...Thats just a fact. And if it ever comes to an insurgency its those types that we will be counting on and not people who have read to much Adrono or whatever he is called. Sometimes you get the feeling here that people's leftism is just some sort of subcultural game and they yall have no contact with normal working people who actually have jobs in factories and live on shitty council estates, etc.

there are working class people in america who hate black people but i'm against that so i guess i'm a big phony leftist for not buying into the dumb things that working class people are stereotypically supposed to believe. And gee I guess my views don't count as working-class views anyway since I only used to work in a factory and now work in the service industry but real working class hardmen only work in circa 19th century factories and only effete middle class liberal phony leftists do things like go to school. well golly gee

[Fawkes]

He made it clear that he wasnt homophobic.




Umm, no, he didn't. And even if he wasn't, he's blatantly transphobic.


Fact....Plenty of working class blue collar make pride in being masculine and see it as class divide between them and the middle class who they regard as effete...Thats just a fact.
1. woopdy doo
2. that's not restricted to working class people
3. classes are divided by relations to the means of production, not muscle size


And if it ever comes to an insurgency its those types that we will be counting on and not people who have read to much Adrono or whatever he is called.
Well apparently you haven't because his name is spelled Adorno. And yeah, reading is for reactionary, middle-class douche bags, right? If it's a revolution that is wholly reliant on gender-Nazis, I don't want a part of it.

P.S. It's "too", not "to"


Sometimes you get the feeling here that people's leftism is just some sort of subcultural game and they yall have no contact with normal working people who actually have jobs in factories and live on shitty council estates, etc.
And sometimes I get the feeling that many people ignore the obvious discriminatory and hateful remarks of working class people (not that it's in any way restricted to them) because it's easier not to address those issues. Just because a view is prevalent among working class people doesn't make it any more justifiable. And if you're going to insinuate that I'm out of touch with the working class (who of course only work as riveters and lumberjacks), well you're making it pretty obvious that both you and the OP are completely out of touch with the transgender/non-hetero communities through apologetic sentiments towards those that say and do things that cause immense emotional, mental, and physical harm to a huge amount of people -- often working class for what it's worth -- including me. You prick.

[The Douche]

He made it clear that he wasnt homophobic.

Fact....Plenty of working class blue collar make pride in being masculine and see it as class divide between them and the middle class who they regard as effete...Thats just a fact. And if it ever comes to an insurgency its those types that we will be counting on and not people who have read to much Adrono or whatever he is called. Sometimes you get the feeling here that people's leftism is just some sort of subcultural game and they yall have no contact with normal working people who actually have jobs in factories and live on shitty council estates, etc.

Dude, you can't call people fags and claim you're not a homophobe, sorry.

I'm a tough looking scary combat veteran, but I don't run around using homophobic language and trying to emasculate people, in fact, I do the opposite, cause in my mind thats what it means to be a real man. (or woman)

[NoOneIsIllegal]

I don't think I've seen Snowing live, but I've seen Prawn, Algernon Cadwallader and a few other Midwest/East coast indie emo groups.
Just noticed this post. Did you use to go to the Cabana House?

My old friend keeps trying to push me into brocore bands. He has a Terror tattoo if that says anything... I rather listen to Oroku or The Dream is Dead or something awesome.