What is the most socialist friendly liberal democracy?

[RadioRaheem84]

I know that most socialists are not tolerated in liberal democratic countries, but is there one where being called a socialist isn't akin to being labeled a terrorist or a Nazi like in the States?

I am thinking maybe Canada? :confused:

[ed miliband]

Well... you can describe yourself as a socialist in most (all?) northern European countries with no repercussion other than people assuming socialism = social democracy. I'd rather be considered socialist scum than a social democrat.

[Q]

I'm openly presenting myself as a revolutionary socialist or communist and don't face repercussions here (well, other than being kicked out of the Dutch "socialist" party).

[Tavarisch_Mike]

Here in Sweden if you call yourself socialist, most people will think of a traditional social democrat, meaning that most people wont make a thing about it.

[RadioRaheem84]

Yeah that must be the flip side to the whole matter.

I would hate to be considered a mere soc dem when advocating for social change and socialism.

Although I wouldn't mind being confused for a Luxembourgian Social Democrat. Old School social democracy. Not so bad at least not as bad as being confused for right wing soc dem or Third Way bullshit.

Though I know most people think the latter instead of the former.

[RadioRaheem84]

Any Canadians? Is it the same in Canada?

[Q]

Not so bad at least not as bad as being confused for right wing soc dem or Third Way bullshit.

Though I know most people think the latter instead of the former.

I don't think anyone outside this forum ever heard about MTW.

[Pirate Utopian]

I think he means third way as in market socialism and such "third ways" between socialism and capitalism.

[Q]

I think he means third way as in market socialism and such "third ways" between socialism and capitalism.

Ah yes, misread "Way" for "World" for some reason :blushing:

[RadioRaheem84]

Third Way as outlined by British Sociologist Anthony Giddens and promoted by Tony Blair and Bill Clinton.

[Wanted Man]

How can you measure that? I don't think anyone is prosecuted for socialism in "liberal democracies" anywhere. And when you start talking about public attitudes and stuff like that, you'd have to look at opinion polls, election results, surveys, etc.

[Widerstand]

People in Germany are like "lol" when you tell them you're a commie/anarchist, and go all "YOU THROW STONES/MOLLIES????" when you call yourself autonomous. When you call yourself socialist they'll prolly think of social democrats. At least that's the encounters I've had.

[NecroCommie]

Never come here. Saying that one is socialist or communist over here means that people think you want the russians to rape all and everyone.

[the last donut of the night]

Never come here. Saying that one is socialist or communist over here means that people think you want the russians to rape all and everyone.

In Finland? Weird.

[Sentinel]

Never come here. Saying that one is socialist or communist over here means that people think you want the russians to rape all and everyone.


Good old Finland.. It's really hard to believe that before the war the working class was largely leftist, and even attempted a revolution in 1918. We can all thank 'comrade' Stalin for this shift in attitudes. :(

I agree with Tavarich Mike's description of the situation in Sweden.

[RadioRaheem84]

Wow. This phenomena of under mining the real left is more widespread than I imagined.

At least in Latin American countries people think of socialists as well meaning and have good hearts (unless you talk to upper class people).

What about Southern Europe? France, Spain, Italy and Greece?

[Widerstand]

Wow. This phenomena of under mining the real left is more widespread than I imagined.

At least in Latin American countries people think of socialists as well meaning and have good hearts (unless you talk to upper class people).

What about Southern Europe? France, Spain, Italy and Greece?

Communism is big in Greece. Anarchists occasionally get beat up there, from what I've heard. Spain still has remotely active CNT chapters and a somewhat left-leaning government (afaik). France has the CGT, a lot of social unrest, but also lots of Arab/Anti-Arab-Nationalist conflicts. No idea about Italy.

Also, don't even ask about Eastern Europe. Look at the Polnish Antifa videos. They may seem brutal to Americans/West Europeans, but really, Eastern Europe (especially Russia!) is pretty much a war zone dominated by the far right.

[Pavlov's House Party]

Any Canadians? Is it the same in Canada?

I would say Canada is one of the worst 1st world countries for leftist activists. There's been a recent surge all around the country in unannounced visits by CSIS (our version of the FBI I think) agents in unmarked cars and suits to activists' homes, who try to force their way in and interrogate unsuspecting leftists for information about leading comrades and upcoming events. I've also heard horror stories of them trying to force people to go with them in their unmarked cars. They target groups like Native Rights, Women's Rights, Environmentalists and *gasp* even communists!

As recent events at the G20 protests have shown, Canada is no better at dealing with leftists than the American government.

[Pavlov's House Party]

Here's a documentary about the Canadian government's targeting of leftists all the way back to the Second World War:

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2010-2011/enemiesofthestate/


It seems hard to imagine today that a Canadian government would approve a plan to round up thousands of law-abiding Canadians and lock them away simply because they were perceived to be a threat to Canadian democracy.

Conceived in the early days of the Cold War, the top-secret plan called "Profunc" was to be enacted if Canadian national security was threatened. The fear was stoked by the outbreak of the Korean War, which looked as if it might become the precursor to WW3.

In Canada, the head of the RCMP drew up a plan to lock up "Prominent Functionaries," including known communists and other people deemed to be subversives. The plan is breathtaking in its scale and detail. It listed those who were to be arrested, where they would be interned and how they were to be treated. Families of targeted people were not spared: many wives and children were to be locked away as well.

Incredibly, The Profunc blueprint remained in place until the 1980s. Only today are some people learning for the first time that they and their families were deemed Enemies of the State. The names of those people will astonish most Canadians.

"Enemies of the State' also explores the targeting of possible 'subversives' today and asks what kinds of lists might exist that the Canadian public doesn't know about.

[RadioRaheem84]

Communism is big in Greece. Anarchists occasionally get beat up there, from what I've heard. Spain still has remotely active CNT chapters and a somewhat left-leaning government (afaik). France has the CGT, a lot of social unrest, but also lots of Arab/Anti-Arab-Nationalist conflicts. No idea about Italy.

Also, don't even ask about Eastern Europe. Look at the Polnish Antifa videos. They may seem brutal to Americans/West Europeans, but really, Eastern Europe (especially Russia!) is pretty much a war zone dominated by the far right.

So the KKE is quite strong? Communism has a following there?

That's good.

I am just looking for a nation to move to for a couple of years to work. I want to gain some international experience.

I also want to be involved with local leftist groups too.

What about in France and the Communist Party there?

[Widerstand]

So the KKE is quite strong? Communism has a following there?

That's good.

I am just looking for a nation to move to for a couple of years to work. I want to gain some international experience.

I also want to be involved with local leftist groups too.

What about in France and the Communist Party there?

I guess if you want work, Greece should be least on your list ;D But yeah, as far as I'm aware the KKE plays a key role in the strikes and protests, and is one of the strongest West European communist parties, in general.

But then again, I wouldn't know of any European nation with a good job situation, so you might as well try there. At least it's more exciting and inspiring than going to your ritual may day, punk shows in squatted houses and the weekly Marx reading circle (fuck my life).

[NoOneIsIllegal]

At least it's more exciting and inspiring than going to your ritual may day, punk shows in squatted houses and the weekly Marx reading circle (fuck my life).
Hey, that's at least something, I guess. A lot of DIY punk shows I have gone to have no politics involved. A few people are conscious but it sucks here. Sounds like some people at least read Marx outside of college courses :lol:

[Tavarisch_Mike]

I wouldn't know of any European nation with a good job situation

At least for swedes, Norway is a gold mine!

[Raúl Duke]

No idea about Italy.

Only Florence, Bologna are staunchly to the left. Lega Nord is getting popular up-north and the south vote for the center-right (which is allied/is the plain right); to my knowledge. Also, sometimes, the word communist is used as a label or slur for the center-left often especially these days by the right. Remember, Italy has Berlusconi so you can imagine.

[Wanted Man]

What about Southern Europe? France, Spain, Italy and Greece?

In all of these countries (Portugal as well), communists are a major force, even if the overall trend of their governments is towards social-democracy or conservatism. They are not a factor in all parts of these countries, but for instance, in Portugal, the communists dominate in certain industrial areas of major cities as well as lots of smaller cities.

[Lyev]

"Socialism" in the UK has a very strong connection to old Labour and such -- labelling yourself "socialist" here will probably connect you in people's minds to Clement Attlee, nationalisation, "social justice", trade-unionism, anti-Thatcher, anti-poll tax, miner strike, or whatever. Which is why I call myself a communist or Marxist nowadays. But, yeah, socialism, being a "socialist" has a very very varied definition and connotation depending on your area or country. With this kinda british popular definition of socialism that I gave, then I would say that the UK is very friendly towards socialists.

[bailey_187]

Southern Europe (Spain, Greece, Portugal, Italy) is alot more friendly to revolutionary socialism/communism than most other places in Europe.

Not that elections are everything but in Greece the KKE got half a million votes (the third largest), two Maoist parties got collectivly 15,000 votes, and a few other parties who claim to want to overthrow capitalism got votes in the 1000s. So a sizeable amount people in Greece are favourable to anti-capitalist politics.

In Italy, IIRC, the replacement traditional CP (called the Communist Refoundation Party) has a membership of about 90,000 and got nearly 6% in the Italian election. I dont know if their politics are as bad the traditional Italian CPs became, but i guess this shows a large amount of people have rallied to the name Communism (which is what u want to know i guess?). There is also a spin off from this party called the Party of Italian Communists which has 40,000 memebers according to wikipedia.

The CP of Spain has 20,000 members, i dno about elections.

In Portugal the traditional CP is quite large (~50,000), but participate in a electoral front with (what i would class as) petty-bourgeois parties such as the Environmentalists. This coalition (the CDU) got 8% of the vote. They also put on some festival thing (i think) once a year. I dont know how good attendence is or anything, but i guess having a festival in the first place shows some sort of popular support/sympathy to communism.

France is also a a place where many are sympathetic to communism. In 2002 IIRC the radical left collectivly got 10% of the vote. Also the CP has like 100,000 members. I dont know about the NPA etc but im sure they have a fair few members too.