How do Union's and Worker's Councils differ?

[cowslayer]

What is the difference between a Workers Council and a labor union?

I do not know much about Unions nor the Syndicalist movement, but I know a fair amount about Council Communism.

So if a Council is a council of workers elected by other workers in the industry, how does it differ from a labor union?

Thanks!

[syndicat]

the phrase "workers council" has been used to refer to a lot of different kinds of phenomena. in the world war 1 era, there were radical shop stewards movements, for example, in UK, Italy, Germany and even in U.S. to some extent (railroad industry). These were typically formed independently of the union bureaucracy. They were a form of the syndicalism of that era, in industries where there were union bureaucracies that were a problem. The factory committee movement in Russia in 1917 was similar. So, these were essentially a form of grassroots unionism, apart from the bureaucracies. They were a form of unionism because they emerged as vehicles of worker struggle against employers.

however, the soviets in the Russian revolution were also called "workers councils" ("soviet" means council in Russian). but they were a very different kind of organization, not a workplace based organization, but a kind of shadow government on the local level, elected by workers. in the transfer of power in October 1917, these became the local governments in Russia.

Also, there have been situations where a grassroots labor movement has seized the means of production and set up elected councils of delegates as coordinating committees for worker management of industry. This happened in Spain on a vast scale in 1936, when the union shop steward committees were transformed into workplace administrative councils. There have been other examples, such as with some expropriated companies in the Russian revolution, and with the cordones industriales in Chile in 1972-73. So, in this case, the "worker council" is part of a system of worker management. For example, under Yugoslav "self-management" in the '60s-70s, there were elected committees, called "worker councils", that were the management boards of the various companies and facilities.

so "worker council" can refer either to a radical grassroots unionist body -- especially one aiming at worker management as a goal -- or to a council for management of an industry controlled by workers, or to a local government body consisting of delegates elected from workplaces.

[Paulappaul]

From a theoretical perspective, Council Communists say that Workers' Councils are both Political and Economic bodies and at the same time, the "transitional" - i.e. lower phase of Communism - state.

Unions on the other hand fight on the economic field only, never challenging the State. Council Communists (and this opinion is shared by Daniel De Leon, an American Syndicalist) challenge this as a "one legged conclusion" and say that in turn, the battle must be inherently Political and Economic.

Adherents of Spontaneity (Rosa Luxembourg in particular) would say that Unions strive for a General Strike where as Workers' Councils strive for a Mass Strike.

[Rêve Rouge]

So...would Anarcho-Syndicalism and Council Communism be similar in a way? As far as I know, Anarcho-Syn promotes the idea putting the ownership of the MOP under the hands of labour unions, whereas Council Comm. promotes the idea of putting the ownership of the MOP under the hands of worker's councils.

Both labour unions and worker's councils are made up of workers. So in the end would both ideologies I mentioned above be the same? Or am just confused?

[Paulappaul]

They are similar, but not completely alike. Particularly in the terms of tactics, Council Communists organize completely differently then Anarcho - Syndicalists.

Following the Revolution, some Council Communist tendencies maintain a Centralized Council System, where as Anarcho -Syndicalists call for a Confederation of Unions.