Polish Antifas ambus nazi band "Tormentia"

[Anarchist Skinhead]

"There is no Antifa in Poland" (it refers to a mantra repeated for years by Polish fascists on their intenret forums). Really? On internet you can see short clip from activity of "sport-oriented Anti-Fascists" (as militants call each other in jokes).



On the clip we can see how those "sportsmen" attack band "Tormentia". It is band from Poland playing national-socialist black metal. This day "Tormentia" was supposed to play on "v Szczery Memorial", together with Serbian band Razor 88.
Mariusz Szczerski aka "Szczery" was leading member of Polish neo-nazi band "Honor". He died in 2005 and since then people connected with fascist movement in Poland turned him into a hero. If death in car accident is heroic, then "Szczery" was a hero- he died like thousands of other people dying in car accidents. Now fascists organize "memorials" devoted to his memory. Those are gigs, which gather "elite" of neo-nazis from whole of Europe. Details of those gigs are kept in secret, and their participants are informed about them in last moment by phone or text message. Despite of those security precautions, "persons uknown" managed to get some information. They arranged to meet fascists from "Tormentia" on one of the services on the way to the gig. Idiot neo-nazis, because they should be called like that thought that they will go with second vehicle full of nazis straight to the gig. After all its safer i na group. Well it appeared that they will neither go anywhere nor its safer. There was a funny dialogue with Anti-fascists, who didn't know what else they can talk about with those idiots:

"Allright, you know who we are, right?"
"No"
"Antifa Poland"
"Oh fuck!"

Result of encounter wasn't difficult to predict. As you can see on the film, fascist end up unconscious on the floor. Some of their equipment was destroyed. Their show on "memorial gig" was of course cancelled. Because "Tormentia" never admitted such an action ever took place, we decided to publish part of the recording from the day. As authors of the film informed, they erased more drastic fragments. To protect the identity of those taking part also faces were erased from the clip.

This recording is an answer to words "There is no Antifa in Poland". Those words are often repeated by fascists, who never admit to their own defeats. We have to add that this is second band from NS RAC scenerecently, that managed to find out in first person about capabilities of "sport-oriented Anti-fascists". Ukrainian nazi black metal band Kroda after Anti-fascists visited their concert in Warsaw was forced to cancel their European tour due to smashed equipment and injuries.

[Anarchist Skinhead]

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/img/extlink.gif http://rutube.ru/tracks/3713206.html?confirm=f39bceb0b951d7d580ffb9d32c2c2 480&v=5ecac2a6b5039d42d2eb70528ad35a14 and a link as promised

[antifa scotland]

nice clip!!! shame no one has smashed those nazi fuckers burzum.......

[Anarchist Skinhead]

well I am sure if Burzum would come to Poland right now they would get good welcome as well :rolleyes:

[Buitraker]

Dont stop fucking nazi scum

[Fidel Follower]

dude you need a comma there, otherwise it looks like you're promoting sex with nazi scum ha!

[Anarchist Skinhead]

ha ha, yeah :)

[Omi]

well I am sure if Burzum would come to Poland right now they would get good welcome as well :rolleyes:

Burzum is not a band, and has never performed live. It wouldn't be likely.

[Anarchist Skinhead]

one can dream ;)

[Burn A Flag]

Nice video, it's always nice to see some Nazis get their faces stomped on. :D

[Quail]

It's damn satisfying to see Nazis and racists getting the shit kicked out of them.

[Property Is Robbery]

The only type of violence I support :)

[mykittyhasaboner]

Wow, they kicked the shit out of some stupid band. Big deal. Shouldn't Polish antifa be going after targets which are worthwhile? Or better yet, how about stopping isolated attacks like this, which achieve nothing except to give fascists the kind of ammunition they need, and put in some effort towards organizing the whole working class against the boneheads? Do you all honestly think that beating up some nazi band is some kind of victory?

[Sasha]

sigh...
yes beating up an nazi band is actualy an well thought through action with clear aims and consequences.
the bonehead scene exists and grows on the basis of regular nazi concerts, taking out bands might make the bands stop and for sure makes sure they cant attent that night.
if an headliner band doesnt show up on a show the boneheads turn on each other and infighting is always the result.
this all besides the facts that nazi concert are the no 1 source of income for fascist groups and the place where new reqruites for the violent street gangs are found and groomed.
and attacking the band might stop that whole concert, so it makes a hell of a lot more sense to attack the headliner and get away safe then attack the venue with hundreds of scary as fuck boneheads.
you might not agree with this action (and we know you dont so why dont you just stay out of the whole antifa section) but dont act like this is an stupid pointless action.
it has an point... an very effective point.
and who the fuck says that antifa poland doesnt make an
"effort towards organizing the whole working class against the boneheads", one action doesnt exclude the other.
diversity of tactics you know.
and about this bit
Or better yet, how about stopping isolated attacks like this, which achieve nothing except to give fascists the kind of ammunition they need i can assure from an actual 15 year experience in anti-fascism that isolated well planned personal attacks on the leadership/prominents, besides (!) an general campaing, are the most effective ways of destroying fascists groups.

lets make it simpel for you;
fascists are bullies, what was the best way of fighting bullies when you where a kid? organising an meeting for all the kids who where also getting picked on to act together? running to the teachers? or showing that you werent going to be bullied no more and that bullies wherent invinceble by stomping the bully back?
in my experience only the last one was effective.

[Anarchist Skinhead]

No, I honestly think you are an idiot that knows nothing about reality of Anti-fascist struggle in Poland and yet behaves as if he/she has answers for everything. "Advice" from keyboard warriors is not needed my friend, people there know what they are doing, know what targets they are attacking. How about you find out bit more about whats going on in Poland before you start giving your useless advice?

[mykittyhasaboner]

might make the bands stop and for sure makes sure they cant attent that night.
if an headliner band doesnt show up on a show the boneheads turn on each other and infighting is always the result.
this all besides the facts that nazi concert are the no 1 source of income for fascist groups and the place where new reqruites for the violent street gangs are found and groomed.I wasn't exactly aware that concerts are the main source of income for fascist groups; it would make this seem a lot more significant than it did to me before. How do you know that these attacks actually stop bands from playing--how many times has this worked in practice?




you might not agree with this action (and we know you dont so why dont you just stay out of the whole antifa section) but dont act like this is an stupid pointless action.I never said it was a stupid pointless action, it just seems very limited in its potential effect. You have a good point about attacking them when they are off guard though.




, one action doesnt exclude the other.
diversity of tactics you know.
and about this bit I am only aware of 'antifa' carrying out attacks like this one, and holding demonstrations. I don't know much about the activities of any antifa besides that. I'm not saying that antifa is useless or whatever crap one would like to paint with my words, but I just don't see what antifa does besides attack fascists, which don't seem to coincide with struggles against capitalism.




i can assure from an actual 15 year experience in anti-fascism that isolated well planned personal attacks on the leadership/prominents, besides (!) an general campaing, are the most effective ways of destroying fascists groups.Well thanks for offering your assurance, as I have no experience in any anti-fascist work.


It begs the question though, what happens when fascists catch on to these tactics and are quicker to adapt? I'm just going by what your saying--if isolated attacks is the most effective method of combating fascist groups then the logical reaction from them is that they'll just be better prepared next time. There are real limits to what this kind of anti-fascism can accomplish is all I'm saying.




lets make it simpel for you;
fascists are bullies, what was the best way of fighting bullies when you where a kid? organising an meeting for all the kids who where also getting picked on to act together? running to the teachers? or showing that you werent going to be bullied no more and that bullies wherent invinceble by stomping the bully back?
in my experience only the last one was effective. If fascists were mere bullies, then this argument makes perfect sense. However we both know they aren't mere bullies. In some cases they have political backing and money. You need something more powerful than antifa to really combat fascists in a supremely effective manner. I'm sure you agree.

[Ravachol]

I wasn't exactly aware that concerts are the main source of income for fascist groups; it would make this seem a lot more significant than it did to me before. How do you know that these attacks actually stop bands from playing--how many times has this worked in practice?


Often enough to be a successfull tactic.



I am only aware of 'antifa' carrying out attacks like this one, and holding demonstrations. I don't know much about the activities of any antifa besides that. I'm not saying that antifa is useless or whatever crap one would like to paint with my words, but I just don't see what antifa does besides attack fascists, which don't seem to coincide with struggles against capitalism.


You speak like there some kind of unified 'antifa movement' with an inner council and high command and all. Antifa is a diffuse movement composed of many individuals with roots in the broad radical left. It consists of anything from ML's to Anarchists and as such these individuals organize and agitate outside of their antifa activity as well.

That being said, a critique re. 'liberal antifascism' is always a good thing seeing as how antifascism without the explicit call and agitation for anti-capitalism is a paper tiger. But that was not the matter being discussed.

[mykittyhasaboner]

Often enough to be a successfull tactic.

Well I'd like to take your word for it, but I don't see how a few bonehead musicians getting beat up is going to have such an impact based on mere logic. Is there any way to prove that this tactic works?




You speak like there some kind of unified 'antifa movement' with an inner council and high command and all. Antifa is a diffuse movement composed of many individuals with roots in the broad radical left. It consists of anything from ML's to Anarchists and as such these individuals organize and agitate outside of their antifa activity as well.You have a valid point, and I was aware that antifa is not unified. However it wouldn't seem that antifa is very broad in every case. "Rules of engagement" of the Polish antifa page states the following:



- Authoritarian left is not an ally: all sorts of Lenin followers, communists and pro-state socialists never were and never will be on our side. For them anti-fascism is a disguise in struggle for power and from the history we can learn how communist's allies end up when they are no longer needed. Polish antifa has already drawn political lines against "Leninists", and in doing so denying potential members, so it would seem the outside organizations of antifa members are limited to a certain sect of leftists. I don't know what other antifa organizations are like, perhaps there are more lenient groups accepting a wider range of political shades.


That being said, a critique re. 'liberal antifascism' is always a good thing seeing as how antifascism without the explicit call and agitation for anti-capitalism is a paper tiger. But that was not the matter being discussed.Of course, and I agree.

[Bandito]

God I love a respectful poster when I see one. Thank you,mykittyhasaboner.

On the topic, yes, psycho is right. Nazi concerts and clothing are the main source of their income, if we don't mention ones that are actually supported by the government. In that case their source of income is pretty clear and harder to deal with. But on most occasions, those are underground losers that need to be confronted physically, and that is the method that is proven to be most efficient. Of course, violent attacks are not the only way of dealing with the scum, especially because it is the method that draws most of the attention to the police, and police is one of the parties that nobody wants around.
As for the Leninism part, antifa movement is mostly based on wider platforms and mass organizations with only one cause, and that is stopping the nazis, so you can expect anti-leninist sentiment in part of the membership, but that is not mentioned most of the time. The left is generally unified when it comes to bashing boneheads. Of course, respectful parties and political organizations that are Leninist, participate in those kinds of antifa networks, and also have their own antifascist actions.
What can and has to be criticized when it comes to "liberal antifascism" is the fact that some of the antifascist networks actually collaborate with the police, call for absolute rejection of violence towards the nazis (call them hippies) or work with parliamentary bourgeois parties. But no real antifascist really works with them in any sort of way and rejects their stand.

What needs to be understood is the fact that violence is vital in the struggle against that particular opponent. They base their ideology on fear, and what is really important is that they(no matter how insignificant they appear to be)never take the streets. That is why antifa is out there kicking the shit out of them.

[Anarchist Skinhead]

Well, in case of Tormentia they were unable to play, probably largely due to smahed equimpent and guitarist having lots of his fingers broken ;) We know for sure he will be picking up his nose only with left hand now ;) Band didn't play, boneheads play serious money to go and see couple of bands, if one of them doesnt turn up it often means organisers will have to pay some money back, also since they are part of the group, profits from the gig go towards replacing smashed equipment, car windows etc instead of funding the organisation. Simple!

Ukrainian NSBM band Kroda had their first gig in Warsaw that was supposed to be a start of Europan tour- after they met local antifa, they were unable to play even that gi and all their equipment and the van got smahed- again, all gigs had to be cancelled. I donno about you, but to me it sounds very effective ;) That they can cotton on and start using the same methods? man, they are already doing it for years, so they won't learn anything new and actually we are usually more prepared to do the right thing and take it to logical conclusion ,whereas most of them are just bullies and they drop out when they see that shit is hitting the fan and its no longer safe to be an open fascist/nazi.

Antifa in Poland is also involved in other kind of political work- individual members are often members of anarchist organisations and do their own bit in diffierent struggles, whereas antifas as a group often provides security for political events, meetings, demos etc (in my home town it would be impossible for anarchist public action to happen without tight run security operations so there you go, thats our bit for the struggle ;)

As for non-cooperation with authoritarian left- well, we do not deny ourselves any membership whatsovere, group is run on non-hierarchical ideas and therefore presence of leninists for example would mean sooner or later complete disaster and attempts at taking the group over. Also on top of that leninists, communists etc. in Poland are probably like 10 altogether all over country, so ints not like we lost any potential members ;)

[Bandito]

As for non-cooperation with authoritarian left- well, we do not deny ourselves any membership whatsovere, group is run on non-hierarchical ideas and therefore presence of leninists for example would mean sooner or later complete disaster and attempts at taking the group over.
You sure have a dogmatic and dangerous view on the situation.
I mean, if an organization is run like a network of various leftists, what is the point of pointing out about "denying" or "not denying" anybody from participating.
As for "taking over" part, I can just, well, laugh. How can an antifa network become taken over? If it serves no other purpose than stopping nazis, it is surely not an ideological battle inside, now is it. Leninists also like to kick the shit out of nazis, you know?
If it serves the purpose of promoting anarchism or something like that, than it is a completely different story and cannot be taken like a serious antifa group, rather a sectarian organization. But I hope that it's not the case.

[Anarchist Skinhead]

Its not a network of various leftists in Poland, nor Czech Rep. and Slovakia. We have our principles and stand by them, don't want to have people adhering to completely compromised ideology of the past.. it is a moot point anyway, because there is no communist/ML movement in Poland from which we could potentially recruit members.

Antifa network can be taken over as well, plenty of examples around from different countries. Enemy of my enemy doesn't have to be my friend.

Antifa in PL does not exist to promote anarchism ,it exists to combat fascism and nazism in miliant way but it is based on anti-authoritarian ideas/rules so can't really see leninists being happy to participate i na group ,where there is no "leadership" and party discipline.

[Stand Your Ground]

I always support violence against fascists/racists, it might seem stupid to some, but we need to show them that they can't attack people and get away with it, if we're not attacking them, they'll be attacking us.

[Bandito]

Antifa in PL does not exist to promote anarchism ,it exists to combat fascism and nazism in miliant way but it is based on anti-authoritarian ideas/rules so can't really see leninists being happy to participate i na group ,where there is no "leadership" and party discipline.
Goddammit.
Look, you have your situation and your struggle. And it is your right to do it in what ever way you fucking please. But don't mix the genuine idea of antifa networks with that anymore, because what you are doing, sounds pretty dogmatic to me.
And if you think Leninism is about "leadership" and "taking over", you haven't seen a Leninist in your life.
Have a good day.

[Anarchist Skinhead]

I have seen far too many leninist in my life my friend :) And on top of that I had ML showed down my throat for some part of my young life
It might spound dogmatic to you, fair enough, your right to think whatever you want. And I am sorry but you will not deny right to call ourselves "antifa" to me and my comrades, there are no set rules of that loose network. You will find that in many places leninists and other authoritarian communists are not accepted within Antifa ranks (Poland, UK- i am not talking about AFA here, Czech rep, Slovakia, Belarus to name a few). Everybody has their ways and chooses methods which are most appropiate to them given the terrain in which you act and political convictions of people involved.
Have a good day as well ;)

[black magick hustla]

meaningless subcultural youth gangs fighting other meaningless subcultural youth gangs good job. in the end, we are still hungry, lonely and miserable

[Sasha]

Except that that one "meaningless subcultural youthgang" prevents that other from becoming an daily and ever present threat against the lives of "real revolutionarys" I.e. pedantic assholes who have no idea what it is to live and organise in an area terrorised by Nazi scum. Fuck off on that high horse you came in on.

[Ravachol]

meaningless subcultural youth gangs fighting other meaningless subcultural youth gangs good job. in the end, we are still hungry, lonely and miserable

Oh you! I usually agree with you and I know how you like to bang on the leftcommunist drum regarding antifascism. But you know just as well as I do that fascist gangs and cliques, whatever their size, are always a danger to the working class and it's revolutionary segments. There are near endless historical and contemporary examples of fascist gangs being at the spearhead of the counter-revolution as well as them being a general nuisance and physical threat to revolutionary organisations. I know plenty of comrades who have, at various points during their organising efforts, been attacked by fascists. Preventing them from growing and organising is nothing but self-protection. Sure, they're nothing compared to the lackeys of the state we generally encounter but those don't (yet) go around kicking our comrade's teeth in or setting homes of immigrants on fire now do they?

[Anarchist Skinhead]

what psycho said, well put , nothing to add really on my part, agree with every word.

[EvilRedGuy]

The only type of violence I support :)


SO no violence to the Bourgeois pigs, Fascist dogs, and their class traitors who exploits the working class? Fuck you.

PS- Thnaks for beating up nazi scum, hold the streets clean of scum!!!

[Sam_b]

You will find that in many places leninists and other authoritarian communists are not accepted within Antifa ranks (Poland, UK- i am not talking about AFA here, Czech rep, Slovakia, Belarus to name a few)

This assertion is certainly not true for those involved with Antifa in the Czech Republic and i'd question what position you are in to assert this on behalf of them. Also, the idea of 'authoritarian communism' is a joke term only going to show your political bias.

[pastradamus]

How do we know these guys are genuinely antifa? I didnt see anything to prove that this was anything more than a fight between people with no politics involved what so ever.

[Sasha]

what you want, them leaving an comunique on the scene? carving a swastika in the fash heads inglorious bastards style?
they filmed it, they edited it to protect those who did it and then they wrote that it was an political action.
enough for me...

[freepalestine]

did you say you don't allow marxists in to antifa in poland etc???

[Sasha]

i think marxists are alowed, they dont except state-socialists/authoritarians i.e. the remnants of the dictatorships they suffered under until quite recently

[The Grey Blur]

throwing 'authoratarian' out there as if it means something is ridiculous. whatever the hell it's intended to mean could easily apply to your dogmatic approach to including your imaginary leninists who are just waiting to swoop in and brainwash all the antifa in poland. fair play for beating up the nazis (and also for your digs at the uaf which i completely agree with) but grow up a bit politically.

[Sasha]

thread cleaned up, verbal warning too sam b and anarchist skinhead for flaming

[Sam_b]

How did anything I say amount to flaming?

[antifa_greece]

hello anyone knows the song?

[Anarchist Skinhead]

band is called 1125, song is "Walka o Honor" :)

[The Scream]

I'm with the couple of guys who said that they support violence against racists/fascists, and racists/fascists only.