The Evilest, Most Vile Species of Being around: Market Researchers(TM)

[greenwarbler]

The University of Alabama A/V collection is quite extensive, so I was bound to cross paths with Frontline at some point, even though, stereotypical revleftkid tat I am, I haven't owned a television in years. The show's youthful staffer, Barak Goodman did two short exposes on marketing: one rather boring & speculative, the other (The Persuaders) very interesting and even shockin in its revelation of the "on the ground" nature of the Wacky World of Marketing. If someone can link, I will try to PM an admin, to do so.
Here is a link to The Persuaders: pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/persuaders/
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/persuaders/
A "Letter to the Editor" from a member of the advertising industry (which apparently does not exclude persons with horrendous grammar skills from its fold:

Dear FRONTLINE,
what a wonderful program on persuasion and human behavior. I thoroughly enjoyd it and have recommended mnay of our clients to view it. Our firm specializes in the growing field of reputation management-- it is a close cousin of public raltions-- but where it differs is in the counsel we provide cleints: they must change their behavior to reflect what the market seeks before they communicate anything.
Too many people are into saying and not asking first. Many of your viewres appeared depressed at the thought of these modern persuasion techniques being used-- consider they can be used to
motivate good behavior desireable to society just as well as selfish actions. The more we know about the brain-- the better we will learn to do good. Good is not exclusive from commerce and marketing.
peter morrissey
Boston, MA

[greenwarbler]

The fellow in Section IV, "The Science of Selling" reminds me why we must stomp out the evil of Postmodernism, and spit on its ashes, once we've burned it to the ground entirely.

[ComradeMan]

The evilest ones are the ones that call you in the middle of your favourite film or under Sunday morning...:D

[Le Corsaire Rouge]

That's not market research, it's marketing. I hate it when people get those two things confused.

[ComradeMan]

That's not market research, it's marketing. I hate it when people get those two things confused.

No I have been called by market researchers too.. They usually give you this whole thing about how your contributing to their survey helps you improve products and stuff.

[greenwarbler]

That's not market research, it's marketing. I hate it when people get those two things confused.

It makes no difference--it's evil. If this is something that bothers you, then you need to find a real hobby.. you're missing the point..

[Lt. Ferret]

I like having better products.

[synthesis]

I would say that marketing and market research are the art and science of manipulation, respectively.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I like having better products.

Market research makes for better targeted products, but not necessarily products that are intrinsicly better. I'm sure everyone would want better quality products that don't wear out so quickly, but if a company were to actually do that they would lose out to competitors who can flood the market with cheaply built products with a built-in obsolescence.

[Lt. Ferret]

okay, i like products that are specified to my needs. thats why i buy beer and not lady pads.

[ComradeMan]

This is also part of the modern capitalistic throw-away society. If you take the marketing of clothes as an example. Clothes are in one season and within six-months they are out of fashion again and people are being bombarded with advertising and subliminal messages about buying yet more clothes. There was perhaps nothing wrong with your old jacket from last year that would last another 10 years- but no, you HAVE to have the new one because the zipper is diagonal blah blah blah. It's a powerful too. Cellular phones are another example. Fundamentally a phone from 10 years ago still works and you phone people and talk to them or send them a message but every couple of months there's yet another gadget, new adaptation and so on but at the end of the day you use it to do exactly the same thing as 10 years ago. Okay, this is a simplistic view but I think this economic-"culture" is what produces and is subsequently produced by a lot of the aggressive marketing we see today.

[Thirsty Crow]

It makes no difference--it's evil. If this is something that bothers you, then you need to find a real hobby.. you're missing the point..
You know what evil is?
Evil is a metaphysical concept.
Stop using it.

[Le Corsaire Rouge]

It's moronic to say that "market research is evil". On the one hand people complain that companies walk roughshod over their customers, and on the other they complain when they ask them what they want? A market researcher just finds out information. Quit shooting messengers, quit picking on the little guys and focus your fire on the bosses.

A centrally-run communist society will need rigorous and effective market research in order to allocate resources. If the Soviet Union had had better market researchers, perhaps it would have been more effective in its production.

[Le Corsaire Rouge]

Fundamentally a phone from 10 years ago still works and you phone people and talk to them or send them a message but every couple of months there's yet another gadget, new adaptation and so on but at the end of the day you use it to do exactly the same thing as 10 years ago.
I couldn't get emails, surf the net, see a map of where I am, play Risk, download helpful apps, etc, on my phone of ten years ago. There's no point being a Luddite for the sake of it - socialist economies thrive on technological advances.

[ComradeMan]

It's moronic to say that "market research is evil". On the one hand people complain that companies walk roughshod over their customers, and on the other they complain when they ask them what they want? A market researcher just finds out information. Quit shooting messengers, quit picking on the little guys and focus your fire on the bosses.

A centrally-run communist society will need rigorous and effective market research in order to allocate resources. If the Soviet Union had had better market researchers, perhaps it would have been more effective in its production.

LOL! Comrade- we are phoning you in order to improve our policy of collective agriculture and the maximisation of food production.

Товарищ, мы телефона для того, чтобы улучшить нашу политику коллективного сельского хозяйства и максимизации производства продуктов питания.

(apologies for the Russian translation).

Wouldn't it be a bit hard to have market research as we understand it under state monopoly soviet socialism?

I don't think people here want to have market researchers taken out and shot BTW. I am never rude to the people who phone me, I appreciate that it's usually someone who is on a shitty hourly wage under pressure to reach targets or be fired. I think the OP was attacking the whole "industry" behind it.

[Le Corsaire Rouge]

Market research makes for better targeted products, but not necessarily products that are intrinsicly better. I'm sure everyone would want better quality products that don't wear out so quickly, but if a company were to actually do that they would lose out to competitors who can flood the market with cheaply built products with a built-in obsolescence.
Expensive quality products only "lose out" if people choose to buy the "cheap" stuff. Take clothes. You could go to a designer and order top-quality clothes that will look amazing and last you a lifetime, but will cost you a small fortune. Or you could grab a cheap T-shirt and a pair of jeans that will last you a year or so before looking worn-through, but hey, they're cheap, so you can just get more at that point.

Low-quality products are cheap to make. High-quality products are expensive to make. If you're happy with your cheap T-shirt and jeans, why should you be forced to spend more on expensive clothes that you don't need or want?

As communists we have to be realistic about the world. Not elitists who look down on people who are content with cheaply-made products. Not thugs who hate the very idea of quality. Realistic: not minding what type of thing people like better.

Take mobile phones. Some people, like me, love the extra stuff that can be done with a smartphone. Some people just want to be able to make calls on the go and nothing more. In theory, there's no reason why they couldn't use a smartphone to only make calls ... but making the smartphone uses up a lot more time, expertise and material resources than making the basic mobile phone. Why should society waste its scarce resources providing smartphones for people who don't want them?

[Le Corsaire Rouge]

LOL! Comrade- we are phoning you in order to improve our policy of collective agriculture and the maximisation of food production.

Товарищ, мы телефона для того, чтобы улучшить нашу политику коллективного сельского хозяйства и максимизации производства продуктов питания.

(apologies for the Russian translation).
Hehe, sounds funny I know, but when you think about it it makes sense. Is Moscow getting enough bread, or is it getting too much? Those new Trabants - is anyone going to buy them? How should we price the latest batch of Cuban cigars?


Wouldn't it be a bit hard to have market research as we understand it under state monopoly soviet socialism?

I don't think people here want to have market researchers taken out and shot BTW. I am never rude to the people who phone me, I appreciate that it's usually someone who is on a shitty hourly wage under pressure to reach targets or be fired. I think the OP was attacking the whole "industry" behind it.
This thread is called "The Evilest, Most Vile Species of Being around: Market Researchers(TM)". That's a pretty strong sentence! Even marketing / advertising itself - is that really more evil and vile than "Member of the SS" or "Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan"?! And more prosaically I think that soldiers in Amero-British imperial armies are more evil and vile than marketers / advertisers, along with riot police, investment bankers, private equity barons, right-wing politicians... But market researchers, evil? That's like saying that an iron miner is evil because somebody else takes the iron he extracts and uses it to make guns. I'm glad you say you're nice to market researchers, but a lot of people aren't...

[ComradeMan]

@Le Corsaire Rouge

Hehe, sounds funny I know, but when you think about it it makes sense. Is Moscow getting enough bread, or is it getting too much? Those new Trabants - is anyone going to buy them? How should we price the latest batch of Cuban cigars?

LOL!!!!!!!! :thumbup1:


This thread is called "The Evilest, Most Vile Species of Being around: Market Researchers(TM)". That's a pretty strong sentence! Even marketing / advertising itself - is that really more evil and vile than "Member of the SS" or "Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan"?!

Well no, but I think it was tongue-in-cheek too...

And more prosaically I think that soldiers in Amero-British imperial armies are more evil and vile than marketers / advertisers, along with riot police, investment bankers, private equity barons, right-wing politicians... But market researchers, evil?

Well evil is a relative term. I don't think those soldiers are necessarily evil either- cannon fodder for an evil yes, individually- well depends on the inidvidual.

That's like saying that an iron miner is evil because somebody else takes the iron he extracts and uses it to make guns.

I'm glad you say you're nice to market researchers, but a lot of people aren't...

Are you a market researcher? :lol: Well I believe we should have good manners to all people and I would never blame the individual for trying to feed themselves or their family either. As the Roman proverb said, "man thinks first to his stomach and then with his head".

[Le Corsaire Rouge]

This thread is called "The Evilest, Most Vile Species of Being around: Market Researchers(TM)". That's a pretty strong sentence! Even marketing / advertising itself - is that really more evil and vile than "Member of the SS" or "Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan"?!

Well no, but I think it was tongue-in-cheek too...
How would you feel if someone described you as the evilest, most vile species of being around...?! And I know they were joking, but it was obviously only to an extent: they wouldn't have written "The Evilest, Most Vile Species of Being around: Heart Surgeons(TM)", would they?


And more prosaically I think that soldiers in Amero-British imperial armies are more evil and vile than marketers / advertisers, along with riot police, investment bankers, private equity barons, right-wing politicians... But market researchers, evil?

Well evil is a relative term. I don't think those soldiers are necessarily evil either- cannon fodder for an evil yes, individually- well depends on the inidvidual.
Exactly ... market research is not worse than any other job in the capitalist system. If you've ever met a riot policeman socially then you know that they all absolutely believe that they're doing the right thing. Even though they're not :cool:


That's like saying that an iron miner is evil because somebody else takes the iron he extracts and uses it to make guns.

I'm glad you say you're nice to market researchers, but a lot of people aren't...

Are you a market researcher? :lol: Well I believe we should have good manners to all people and I would never blame the individual for trying to feed themselves or their family either. As the Roman proverb said, "man thinks first to his stomach and then with his head".
I am a market researcher, obviously :lol: (I don't phone people up, though, I email them, and only if they've asked to be emailed!)

[Dean]

I like moeny

[greenwarbler]

Dean: Paul Mooney?

I can and will use, and do use the concept of evil, because concepts are useful things to describe the world, without which we would be rather unable to share certain ideas about things. You OIers are rather pathetic in your disgruntlement with a bit of honesty and Reason.

[greenwarbler]

Did anyone even watch the film?