Fellahs

[PoliticalNightmare]

Help me out here!

I know nothing about economics and am getting my ass kicked over the internet by a bunch of Rothbardians and Ludwig von Mises' advocates! :D

[Revolution starts with U]

On what issues, in particular?
First thing to remind them of is that nobody in the mainstream academic takes their theories seriously. Austrianism is even more fringe than Chicago. And as long as it relies on praxeology, it always will be.
Second, one of their theorists accurately predicted the crash... as did numerous keynesians and neo-keynesians... hardly a great track record.
Of course arguing with them about economics will be almost futile, they reject statistics. No amount of conflicting truth will get them off their ideas.
I don't know much about economics specifically, but I do know political economics. So I attack their policy while I brush up on the theory

[Amphictyonis]

Help me out here!

I know nothing about economics and am getting my ass kicked over the internet by a bunch of Rothbardians and Ludwig von Mises' advocates! :D
Fruitless endeavor. You'd have better luck deprogramming a scientologist.

[PoliticalNightmare]

Fruitless endeavor. You'd have better luck deprogramming a scientologist.

Oh, no I don't mean to try and convert them, I agree completely. I merely wish to outsmart them. :D

[PoliticalNightmare]

I don't know much about economics specifically, but I do know political economics. So I attack their policy while I brush up on the theory

You see thats pretty much me but then they start talking about shareholds and interest rates and inflation and supply and demand and I find myself wanting to go kill myself :D

[Revolution starts with U]

If they bring up the ABCT (austrian business cycle theory) tell them it has nothing to do with the FED (well, it does, but only indirectly) and that banks were inflating the money supply long before the FED, or any government protections of their monies. The ABCT is only a further critique of capitalist banking, as demand for high wages and cheap credit will always be high.

[PoliticalNightmare]

If they bring up the ABCT (austrian business cycle theory) tell them it has nothing to do with the FED (well, it does, but only indirectly) and that banks were inflating the money supply long before the FED, or any government protections of their monies. The ABCT is only a further critique of capitalist banking, as demand for high wages and cheap credit will always be high.

Ok. What's the FED?

[Sosa]

Ok. What's the FED?

Federal Reserve

[Amphictyonis]

Ok. What's the FED?

Well, if you don't know what the FED is you're either not living in the USA or have a while to go before you should be debating these capitalist cult members. :) What exactly are you guys discussing atm?

[PoliticalNightmare]

Well, if you don't know what the FED is you're either not living in the USA or have a while to go before you should be debating these capitalist cult members. :) What exactly are you guys discussing atm?

Well I'm not living in the USA (I'm British) so...Last time we were discussing Mises' Economic Calculation Debate. On most areas I can play a fairly strong hand but economics is a definite weak spot.

[Revolution starts with U]

The UK still has a central bank, but idk what you guys call it (its actually much older than ours, might be the first, not sure).
On the calculation debate, I have no deffinitive answers, but worker control does not entail central planning neccesarily. Market relations will probably still be a part of the world for at least a little while, until we can reasonably do away with currency. And nothing says worker coops, and other worker run companies can't be entrepreneurs.

[PoliticalNightmare]

The UK still has a central bank, but idk what you guys call it (its actually much older than ours, might be the first, not sure).
On the calculation debate, I have no deffinitive answers, but worker control does not entail central planning neccesarily. Market relations will probably still be a part of the world for at least a little while, until we can reasonably do away with currency. And nothing says worker coops, and other worker run companies can't be entrepreneurs.

Basically, I just wanted to know what the basics of economics are and where to go from there, I just put in that comment in the OP about debating for humour's sake. I think this will help me read Marx's capital as well.

[Revolution starts with U]

The Misesians actually give almost all their books away for free over on their site (because no one but a fringe minority will pay for it ;)). You could try over there. But honestly, there are reasons the mainstream economic community doesn't take them seriously, so I would try to find more mainstream publications.

[PoliticalNightmare]

The Misesians actually give almost all their books away for free over on their site (because no one but a fringe minority will pay for it ;)). You could try over there. But honestly, there are reasons the mainstream economic community doesn't take them seriously, so I would try to find more mainstream publications.

Ok but it was mainstream economics I was interested in to begin with. Anyone know where I can find some of the most basic stuff? Cheers.

[Zanthorus]

First thing to remind them of is that nobody in the mainstream academic takes their theories seriously.

Am I the only one tired of seeing this argument bandied about? The majority of even self-described Marxists in the economic profession don't take Marx's analysis of capitalism seriously, so I'd say we're probably on a weaker footing in regards to being popular with the academy. Mainstream economics is pretty much useless anyway.


Basically, I just wanted to know what the basics of economics are and where to go from there

There aren't really any basics of economics, like most social sciences, the competing schools of thought will give you different answers to even the most basic questions like what economics actually is in the first place.

The foundation of any economic theory is the theory of value though, so I guess you could start with Isaak Rubin's Essays on Marx's Theory of Value (http://www.marxists.org/archive/rubin/value/index.htm).

[Manic Impressive]

The UK still has a central bank, but idk what you guys call it (its actually much older than ours, might be the first, not sure).

Bank of England ;)

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

OP i'd ignore most the advice in this thread, particually the part about "reminding them" that nobody in professional academia takes their school of economics seriously. If you seriously wish to adopt that tact, the best approach would be probably to comment on the real world appeal of Austrian economics - why, after 100 years, has there specific school of economics been so unappealing to any sector of society that they have been unable to point to any significant movement claiming to be directly influenced by Austrian economics, as is the case with any other "serious" political/economic theory about now? Mention that while you do not wish to conclude anything from this inference alone, surely they can see that usually theories which ring true to a certain amount of the population (which surely must be the case if Austrian economics is correct.) will likely achieve some influence?

As far as direct critiques of their economics, I wouldn't try it until you have a greater understanding of Marxian economics/political economy in general.

[PoliticalNightmare]

As far as direct critiques of their economics, I wouldn't try it until you have a greater understanding of Marxian economics/political economy in general.

No, I normally tend to steer clear of economics and focus on political theory however I thought it would be quite nice to have some statistics and things like that to back up my arguments.