A question on pacifism vs revolution

[Razzle Dazzle]

I have been searching through quite a few threads on some of the forums and I have been unable to find a detailed analysis of pacifist vs revolutionary thought. Could somebody link me a thread containing that information? If not, could one please post the major/minor points made on both sides?

[Widerstand]

Pacifist thought: You can't build a non-violent society through violence.
Anti-pacifist thought: You can't have a successful revolution without challenging the establishment's monopoly on force.

Simplified.

[mcg]

I think Pacifism is generally seen as well meaning but naive. The working class is already the victim of systemic violence. Capitalist forces will certainly use even more violence to suppress any form of revolution. Moreover, it's not really feasible for the leftist individuals or even groups to ensure that there is no violence. The increasing oppression of the working class will provoke violent responses whether or not these responses are endorsed. Our choice is whether or not to ally ourselves with such violent revolutionaries or reject them. I think it would be treacherous and unfair to reject people because they choose to fight back physically against oppression. Who are we to say they should suffer without fighting back? Thus, I see myself as allied with revolutionary groups through out the world even violent ones. This is not to say I endorse violent struggle. The use of violence should be carefully and most importantly calmly considered. Is it worth spending a year in jail to break a window of the petty bourgeois? Is it worth endangering the lives of activists who have chosen to have a peaceful rally by throwing a brick at the police? Violence should be undertaken with specific aims which are not simply hurting 'the enemy'. Your life and freedom is worth something don't give it up simply out of anger and frustration. Good examples of the use of violence in revolution are the Zapatista's, Che and Castro, even the weathermen who were violent but not against people. It is also important to remember that activists willing to engage in violent struggle should not condemn activists who are not willing to engage in violence.