The One Thing the Left must Remember

[Nobody]

This is inpisred by the little flame wars that are going on right now. The one thing we as communist must remember is in front of all our little factions is the word Marxists. Wheather you re a Marxist-Stalinist, or a Marxist-Leninist, we are all Marxists. We must work together if anything is to be done. We are a small fring group as it is, further splintering does not help! So I say we work together, but respect our differences. Flaming another member will not change their minds about what they believe, we are to stubburn in our beliefs. lets unfy the Left, and maybe someday be able to do some thing.

[Cassius Clay]

Well I would like to think that I dont 'flame' people with a different opinion. But never the less unity for unity's sake no thanx. We have to discuss the issues and debate them, not just put them under the carpet where they will inevitably cause chaos later. Anyway I have a funny feeling where this discussion is going so I'm going to try and leave it.

[YKTMX]

No, Stalin's henchmen can go fuck themselves in the earhole.

[Saint-Just]

No LevTrotsky, I agree to a certain extent, Let us create two factions; those who want unity and those who don't. Those who don't want unity can 'go fuck themselves in the earhole.'

[Som]

Well, unless you're not a marxist.

Ditching the other socialists from your unity now are we?


Working together without implying it having someones opinion smothered would be a nice idea.

[Cassius Clay]

Chairman Mao you misunderstand me, I'm all for unity but not unity based on whoever comes along and delcares themselves to be the 'true Marxist-Leninists' just because they say so. Or peoples whose differences are irreconsiable (spell?). Currently groups are uniting around Marxist-Leninism whether they were/are pro-USSR, Albania, Mao, Cuba or the DPRK, this si the sought of unity that we should be trying to acheive. On a individual basis I also see no problem in allying with whoever. But we should NOT be struggling or even considering having a united front with groups who history has shown us do little more than act as a tool for reaction. We wouldn't ally with the NF or BNP so I dont see why we should ally with (god I promised I wou;ldn't mention his name) followers of one Leon Trotsky.

Now the differences between a pro-Cuban or pro-Albanian group is based on largely a historical perspective. This is radically different to uniting with Trotskyites, I'm sure alot of them are very nice people but that doesn't change the fact they are part of a ideology which breeds reaction and serves Imperialism. This isn't merely based on what history teaches us, and us Communists are not historians, but what has happened in the past shouldn't be ignored. But what is more important is that the whole ideology is dogmatic, rascist ancd militiristic rubbish which has never contributed anything and is not interested in contributing anything to actually bettering peoples lifes. Like I said many may be genuine but unity for unitys sake while not even addressing the issues? Did Lenin go and unite with whoever?

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by Cassius [email protected] 7 2003, 07:25 PM
Chairman Mao you misunderstand me, I'm all for unity but not unity based on whoever comes along and delcares themselves to be the 'true Marxist-Leninists' just because they say so. Or peoples whose differences are irreconsiable (spell?). Currently groups are uniting around Marxist-Leninism whether they were/are pro-USSR, Albania, Mao, Cuba or the DPRK, this si the sought of unity that we should be trying to acheive. On a individual basis I also see no problem in allying with whoever. But we should NOT be struggling or even considering having a united front with groups who history has shown us do little more than act as a tool for reaction. We wouldn't ally with the NF or BNP so I dont see why we should ally with (god I promised I wou;ldn't mention his name) followers of one Leon Trotsky.

Now the differences between a pro-Cuban or pro-Albanian group is based on largely a historical perspective. This is radically different to uniting with Trotskyites, I'm sure alot of them are very nice people but that doesn't change the fact they are part of a ideology which breeds reaction and serves Imperialism. This isn't merely based on what history teaches us, and us Communists are not historians, but what has happened in the past shouldn't be ignored. But what is more important is that the whole ideology is dogmatic, rascist ancd militiristic rubbish which has never contributed anything and is not interested in contributing anything to actually bettering peoples lifes. Like I said many may be genuine but unity for unitys sake while not even addressing the issues? Did Lenin go and unite with whoever?
I wasn't referring to what you were saying Cassius Clay. I understood what you said. We should have unity but not at the expense of debate. Without debate unity is irrelevant, we merely become a group with the sole idea that is to gain power, very much like Fascism.

'Well, unless you're not a marxist.

Ditching the other socialists from your unity now are we?'

Who is this comment directed at. Not me I hope, since I do not hold this view at all.

[elijahcraig]

I think it was mainly the Trots who broke away was it not? Stalinists have always stood for democratic centralism...unlike one Leon I know of.

[Som]

Who is this comment directed at. Not me I hope, since I do not hold this view at all.

No, just a bit of a side comment to the author of the thread.

and elijahcraig, weren't you a trotskyite just a month ago?

[elijahcraig]

No, not a trotskyist. I was rather mute on the subject, other than I thought Trotsky was better than Stalin. But I didn't follow Trotsky.

[Urban Rubble]

Godamn Elijah, you need to give it a rest. For one, this thread was not intended to pin down who was in the wrong, Stalin or Trotsky, despite the fact that you are trying to make it go that way. There are enough threads on that issue.

"and elijahcraig, weren't you a trotskyite just a month ago? "

More like a week ago. Oh, sorry, 9 days. And don't go saying you weren't a Trotskyite, because you were, at least by your logic. You have told me that you claim to be a Stalinist not because you agree with everything he said/did but because you picked him in the Stalin vs Trotsky debate. Now, up until 9 days ago you had picked Trotsky in the debate, by your logic that means you were a Trotskyite. Again, by YOUR logic.




Anyway, I agree, we need more unity, lots more. I don't give 2 shits what your little sect of Marxism is, that is for discussion after a revolution, not before.

[Hampton]

Hey elijahcraig, is your signature long enough?

[Vinny Rafarino]

I should have warned you comrade Elijah, that once you publically admitted that you no longer swallow all the nonsense built up around Stalin your former "comrades" at Che-lives will then begin to systematically try to break you down. I do not agree with everyone busting your balls because you had a realisation.

What people don't understand is that when you change you viewpoint on ideals, the actual announcement will happen at once. Is that not what epiphanies are? You can debate within yourself for 2 years on a subject but once you actually "admit" it, you will be seen as a fly by night traitor.

Perhaps these people would be happy if everyday for a year you made a post stating"today I am closer to disbelieving the lies surrounding Stalin" until one day a year later you finally say "I no longer believe the lies about Stalin" Perhaps they would no longer break your balls. I doubt it though. The neo-left has shown me they will break your balls no matter what you do. So I suggest you forgetouboutit and enjoy the fact that the wool has been removed from your eyes.

What the hell is a Marxist-Stalinist anyway?


Edit:

Your sig is out of order mate.

[elijahcraig]

Signature complaints from two people? I guess I'll shorten it.

Thank you for support comrade RAF.

[Rastafari]

I was about to comment on it too, buddy. It almost became spam, oddly enough.

Oh, and is hatchat when one person talks to another about what to wear on their heads? didn't think so. I am in an odd sort tonight.

[Urban Rubble]

RAF, my busting of Elijah's balls has nothing to do with him being a Stalinist. As I have said many times, I don't give a fuck about his (or anyone else's) ideology. If that is why I was picking on him I would say so. The reason he bugs me is this, one week ago he compared Stalin to Hitler. This week he can't go one fucking post without praising him (O.K, not ALWAYS praising, but always commenting).


Anyway, I don't want to keep fucking with you, I'm sorry, I'll try to stop.

[Vinny Rafarino]

I understand comrade Rubble however it is not for anyone to say how much time is necessary for a person to be "swayed" on a viewpoint. Once your mind finds alternate ways of deciphering logic, it is immediately manifested. Hense the term "epiphany"

I really just want everyone to stop breaking the lads balls 'cos that is what is spurring him on so much. Force a man into a corner and he will fight. Allow him to be free and he will have a coke and a smile and be on his way.

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by COMRADE [email protected] 8 2003, 03:59 AM

What the hell is a Marxist-Stalinist anyway?




An oxymoron?

[YKTMX]

If Elijah is dumb enough to be swayed by the Stalinists on this site then you deserve each other. I mean if you're going to swallow lies why not swallow lies by a professional liar, like Blair or Orlando Figes. Pfff

[Vinny Rafarino]

Look like someone shat in young X's wheatabix today. What a dolt.

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by COMRADE [email protected] 8 2003, 12:22 PM
Look like someone shat in young X's wheatabix today. What a dolt.
Dolt? Anyway, I'm on a low carb diet, no wheetabix for me.

[Nobody]

You are all right, what is a Marxist-Stalinist, was not thinking, sorry.
How about an authoritian Marxist instead.

[Cassius Clay]

'Authoritarian' ??????? I really dont get where people get this idea from, so where comrade did you get it from?

[Nobody]

Well Cassius Clay, after everyone pointed out my rather stupid plunder I had to find some way to work Marxism into Stalinist beliefs. I heard it on the boards somwhere, probley many places. I don't really agree with that handle though.

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by Cassius [email protected] 8 2003, 06:33 PM
'Authoritarian' ??????? I really dont get where people get this idea from, so where comrade did you get it from?
Get a grip on your signature comrade.


au·thor·i·tar·i·an ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-thôr-târ-n, -thr-, ô-thôr-, ô-thr-)
adj.
Characterized by or favoring absolute obedience to authority, as against individual freedom: an authoritarian regime.
Of, relating to, or expecting unquestioning obedience.


That is what authoritarian means. Let's leave it up to people to decide whether Comrade Stalin was a believer in individual liberty and a staunch supporter of dissent being healthy for society. Or othwerwise. Because these threads about Stalin are becoming stale and backward (a bit like the USSR ;) )

[elijahcraig]

X, anyone who gets their name from a Rage Against the Machine song is not worthy of criticizing anyone. What are you 11?

[Vinny Rafarino]

Leave it to an anarKID to attempt to turn a perfectly fine "good will" thread into exactly what it was posted to combat.


Yeah that means YOU littleboyX

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2003, 10:04 PM
X, anyone who gets their name from a Rage Against the Machine song is not worthy of criticizing anyone. What are you 11?
17

[Felicia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2003, 01:35 PM
This is inpisred by the little flame wars that are going on right now. The one thing we as communist must remember is in front of all our little factions is the word Marxists. Wheather you re a Marxist-Stalinist, or a Marxist-Leninist, we are all Marxists. We must work together if anything is to be done. We are a small fring group as it is, further splintering does not help! So I say we work together, but respect our differences. Flaming another member will not change their minds about what they believe, we are to stubburn in our beliefs. lets unfy the Left, and maybe someday be able to do some thing.
who's flaming who now?

ha, what if one isn't even "marxist" at all? what if it's a stalinist and a maoist flaming? what then? :P

[Felicia]

RAF, I could whoop your bum :lol: :P

*flame, flame, flame* :D

[Vinny Rafarino]

Please don't threaten me with a good time Felicia.

[Felicia]

hahaha :lol:

I wasn't trying to :(

[Nobody]

Felicia, are you implying that this is a flame thread? Many I ask you a question, can you read? This is a good will thread!!!

ps, dont get in a flame war with RAF, you dont stand a chance.

pss Stalinist and Maoist derieve much of their inspiration from Marx, hence they are in some form a Marxist.

[Cassius Clay]

Ah Maoists are nothing but crypto-Trots, revisionist, reactionary nationalists!


Oh right were supposed to be uniting, well I like the followers but not the main man. There you go my bit for unity.

[Felicia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2003, 12:49 AM
Felicia, are you implying that this is a flame thread? Many I ask you a question, can you read? This is a good will thread!!!

ps, dont get in a flame war with RAF, you dont stand a chance.

pss Stalinist and Maoist derieve much of their inspiration from Marx, hence they are in some form a Marxist.
hahaha, did I read the thread?

It's more like did YOU read my reply? Did you understand it? I WAS TEASING RAF AND POKING FUN AT THIS THREAD TOPIC!!! I suppose that you didn't pick up the "subtlety" in my "flame" when RAF obviously did.... hence his reply...... althought it wasn't very subtle at all...... :blink:

Don't be such a stick in the mud and don't jump to quik conclusions. RAF and I are "friends" as far as that's concerned.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Yeah stick in the mud!


You can&#39;t come between us &#39;cos we&#39;re..........."friends". <_<