Revolution for GB? My arse.

[Rainsborough]

France erupts over changes to retirement age. Greece, over austerity cuts. According to reports some 500,000 jobs axed in the ConDem cutbacks, retirement age to rise and cutbacks to pensions likely - uprising? About as much chance as Cameron and Brown to be uncovered as secret twins.:mad:

[Omi]

The only way to achieve uprising is to organise it. Get of your arse and organise the struggle.

[Rainsborough]

The only way to achieve uprising is to organise it. Get of your arse and organise the struggle.

Is that what you're doing. Funny don't hear much about the Netherlands.
Anyway for those interested,

Government slashes spending and raises retirement age

The government will cut half a million jobs, slash the welfare state and raise the retirement age as part of an unprecedented cost-cutting drive that will test the strength of both the economy and the ruling coalition.
Chancellor George Osborne's spending review on Wednesday turned up the heat on the Liberal Democrat coalition partners and kept alive a debate about whether Britain's economic recovery can survive the cuts.
Unions reacted angrily but public protest in Britain has so far been muted compared with France, where unions are trying to force a retreat on pension reform with protests including blockades of fuel depots.
"Tackling this budget deficit is unavoidable. The decisions about how we do it are not. There are choices. And today we make them," Osborne told parliament.
The fiscal squeeze over the next four years will total more than 100 billion pounds.
Analysts are not convinced, however, that the government will be able to see through the cuts through especially given that it has moved more of the burden on to the welfare budget, lopping off an extra 7 billion pounds on top of the 11 billion of savings previously announced.
As a result of the welfare raid, budgets for government departments outside protected areas like health and overseas aid would shrink by 19 percent, not the quarter announced in the budget.
Capital spending, Osborne said, would be 2 billion pounds higher per year than originally planned because of the difficulty of getting out of contractual obligations.
Osborne said that the state pension age for men and women will rise to 66 by 2020. "Raising the state pension age is what many countries are now doing, and will by the end of the next parliament save over 5 billion pounds in a year."
Around 490,000 public sector jobs are likely to disappear over the next four years.
French protesters are resisting a rise in their retirement age to 62 and British rail union leader Bob Crow urged Britons to look "to the kind of resistance being mobilised by the French trade unions ... as an example of how to repel austerity cuts."
UNION UNREST
There have also been protests against the austerity budget that Spain's parliament is due to approve on Wednesday, while in Portugal unions have called a general strike for November 24 as the minority government bargains for support in parliament for measures needed to shore up investor confidence.
The government is braced for an uproar but Osborne said he had no choice given the need to cut a record budget deficit of 11 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) -- the highest in the G7 -- to around 2 percent in 5 years, a fiscal tightening of some 113 billion pounds, a quarter of which will come from tax rises.
No previous government has tried anything as ambitious and the National Institute of Economic and Social Research think tank said on Wednesday it thought the government could only push through half the planned cuts.
The latest Reuters/Ipsos MORI political monitor on Tuesday showed 38 percent of people believe the Conservatives have the best economic policies compared to a quarter who preferred the Labour Party's stance.
The Liberal Democrats have seen their support plummet in most polls as they have become party to policies they did not support before May's election.
Much will depend on how the economy copes with the fiscal tightening. For now, the consensus is that Britain will achieve slow growth for a couple of years as the private sector picks up the baton from a deflated public sector.
The latest Reuters poll of economists' forecasts is for GDP growth of 1.6 percent this year and 1.8 percent next year..
But some economists say growth could stall because of the cuts. Many business and consumer confidence measures are already waning even before the measures begin.
(Editing by Mike Peacock/Ruth Pitchford)


(http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20101020/tuk-uk-britain-spending-fa6b408.html)

[Omi]

Is that what you're doing. Funny don't hear much about the Netherlands.

Maybe you don't care enough? You have no clue of what I do, or what Dutch comrades are doing.

[Old Man Diogenes]

Maybe you don't care enough? You have no clue of what I do, or what Dutch comrades are doing.

Respect to both of you, but you did start it. How much can you do by yourself? Not implying that the other guy is the only leftist in Britain. Also I think "Get of your arse and organise the struggle" is, one, easier said than done and two, not particularly constructive advice.

Finally, I'm probably wrong on this point, but the reactions in France and Greece appear to have been fairly spontaneous, obviously the action is organized, but there seemed to be an instant reaction to the measures imposed on them. In Britain however, while most people condemn Osborne's austere measures they don't seem to voice any serious intention of resistance, especially not on the level of the widespread unrest like in Greece and France. I heard someone say a few days ago that Thatcher made people forget the power of the strike (which I thought was quite profound). And I agree with you, but not in the way that you put it, that we need to do something and along with the other people of Britain rediscover the power of resistance and soon.

[Rainsborough]

Respect to both of you, but you did start it. How much can you do by yourself? Not implying that the other guy is the only leftist in Britain. Also I think "Get of your arse and organise the struggle" is, one, easier said than done and two, not particularly constructive advice.

Finally, I'm probably wrong on this point, but the reactions in France and Greece appear to have been fairly spontaneous, obviously the action is organized, but there seemed to be an instant reaction to the measures imposed on them. In Britain however, while most people condemn Osborne's austere measures they don't seem to voice any serious intention of resistance, especially not on the level of the widespread unrest like in Greece and France. I heard someone say a few days ago that Thatcher made people forget the power of the strike (which I thought was quite profound). And I agree with you, but not in the way that you put it, that we need to do something and along with the other people of Britain rediscover the power of resistance and soon.

That's very true Thatcher broke the unions along with the idea of strikes as weapons of resistance. She anounced that there was no such thing as society and too many people believed her. Since then several generations have grown up believing in the Thatcher legacy, the children of the yuppies generation have developed to out-yuppie the yuppie. So, in a way Omi is quite right, sitting behind a computer keyboard is not going to undo thirty years of Thatcherism. However, one egg doesn't make an omlette, I'll get off my ass when others in Britain get off theirs. We need to stop talking the talk, and start walking the walk (as our American comrades might say).

[RadioRaheem84]

Is there something in the water in Southern Europe that makes them a little more radical?

I kid. I know workers in Northern Europe can be just as radical but lately I've seen a lot of them adamantly defend third way right wing social democracy.

I see Irish workers up in arms before Dutch and English.

[Obs]

About as much chance as Cameron and Brown to be uncovered as secret twins.:mad:
I thought everyone knew they were? :confused:

[ryacku]

Thatcher's Austerity programs resulted in alot of violence. Don't underestimate the British proles in reacting to cut backs.

[sidewriting]

It's a shame. The EDL and other far-right groups seem to be a lot more active on the streets of Britain than any far-left organisation. The unions in Britain are in a poor state and have even been labeled by some leftists as counterproductive and reactionary. The liberals can come out in force once in a while but that usually achieves fuck all. In my opinion the British left has been broken, there is no populist group to rally behind that could organize against the government measures.

[RadioRaheem84]

What's the situation in Canada like?

[Omi]

Respect to both of you, but you did start it. How much can you do by yourself? Not implying that the other guy is the only leftist in Britain. Also I think "Get of your arse and organise the struggle" is, one, easier said than done and two, not particularly constructive advice.

Finally, I'm probably wrong on this point, but the reactions in France and Greece appear to have been fairly spontaneous, obviously the action is organized, but there seemed to be an instant reaction to the measures imposed on them. In Britain however, while most people condemn Osborne's austere measures they don't seem to voice any serious intention of resistance, especially not on the level of the widespread unrest like in Greece and France. I heard someone say a few days ago that Thatcher made people forget the power of the strike (which I thought was quite profound). And I agree with you, but not in the way that you put it, that we need to do something and along with the other people of Britain rediscover the power of resistance and soon.

It was more a reaction to the fact that complaining on an online forum about how your country lacks any decent class struggle is not productive in any way. I don't really understand the necessity of this thread.

[Old Man Diogenes]

It was more a reaction to the fact that complaining on an online forum about how your country lacks any decent class struggle is not productive in any way. I don't really understand the necessity of this thread.

That's a fair point. Maybe it should have been a thread about current activity against austerity in Britain rather than one approaching the issue negatively.

[F9]

The only way to achieve uprising is to organise it. Get of your arse and organise the struggle.

Yeah cause we all know that getting in the streets and yelling revolution is gonna be successful and people will start the revolution.:rolleyes:
We should at least be realists!

[The Grey Blur]

there should be some sort of insta-ban process for anyone who brings up the "stop complaining on the internet and do something!" false dichotomy of discussion vs action.

[RadioRaheem84]

I don't know about the ban proposal, but it is annoying.

Stop complaining reminds me too much of right wing "stop complaining, pick yourself up by your bootstraps" talk.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

Its worth noting that conditions are slightly more extreme in France. A few numbers related to the latest wave of action in France can give us some clarity:

Retirement Age:
France - Currently at 60 for men and women, will rise to 67 under Sarkozy's reforms.
UK - 65 for men, 60 for women (in this case, it is still an extreme rise for women, but not as extreme as the 7 year rise for both men and women in France).

Unemployment (2009):
France - 9.1%
UK - 7.8%

Average Annual Wage (2008):
France - £23,119
UK - £28,135

Looking at these figures alone, we can see that France, as a nation, are slightly worse off than we are in Britain. The statistics aren't wildly apart, but the small differences clearly influence a qualitative difference in the action of French workers, compared to ours in Britain.

In Britain, we are not quite there yet, but who knows what will happen when our own cuts start to hit the public? No one really accepts the notion that the cuts are for our own good any more; things are gonna get ugly!

[IndependentCitizen]

You're not the only frustrated about the lack of action by the socialist groups, and trade unions.