Solidarity with France!

[Red Panther]

I just want to praise our comrades in France, protesting against an increase in the retirement age! :lol: I also want to offer support to protesters arrested in some of the riots. If only we had riots like that in the UK! :(
Hasta la victoria siempre!

[IndependentCitizen]

I'd rather have mass protests than riots, to me - riots whilst may be fun aren't the best thing to do.

How're we meant to get people on our side if we're constantly fighting? It doesn't give us a positive light. And the media already brands anyone striking 'militant wreckers', imagine what they'd do to a socialist march turning into a riot here?

They'd pick it a part, and there's far too many people in this country who take every word the papers print as a realistic view.

[~Spectre]

Occupying buildings or blocking off certain business sectors would probably be more fruitful than a straight up riot.

[Red Panther]

Thers's not just been riots though. There's been massive demonstrations and mass strikes coupled with some violent protest. Despite the violence, over 70% of the French population support the movement as well.
I just felt that we need to both support the movement as a whole AND the few who decide to fight the system with violence. As long as they're not harming the cause, I support them!

[¿Que?]

The number of people involved yesterday was 1 million. Today, it has been reported at 3.5 million. May 68 I think got up to 10 million, 1/4 of the workforce. I say, run Sarkozy out of France like they did de Gaul. BUT DON"T FUCK IT UP THIS TIME!!!

[Rusty Shackleford]

Tomorrow we will know the fate of the French Movement.

I believe the government is voting on the issue, and Sarkozy said he didnt care what the protesters wanters, he was going to do it to "ensure the future for retirees and pensioners" so it doesnt go broke or something like that.

[Manic Impressive]

I'd rather have mass protests than riots, to me - riots whilst may be fun aren't the best thing to do.

How're we meant to get people on our side if we're constantly fighting? It doesn't give us a positive light. And the media already brands anyone striking 'militant wreckers', imagine what they'd do to a socialist march turning into a riot here?

They'd pick it a part, and there's far too many people in this country who take every word the papers print as a realistic view.

I agree but riots are also remembered where as demonstrations seem to be forgotten too soon. A riot in the UK would be disastrous for the Tory government, attract international attention and get middle England thinking about the real reasons why a riot happened. We fight when provoked by their aggression and the cuts coming our way certainly count as aggression in my book.

[ckaihatsu]

Tomorrow we will know the fate of the French Movement.

I believe the government is voting on the issue, and Sarkozy said he didnt care what the protesters wanters, he was going to do it to "ensure the future for retirees and pensioners" so it doesnt go broke or something like that.


The entire *world* of workers should not hesitate in the least to be in the streets right now.

The fundamentals underlying the nation-states of the entire world point directly to being in hock to private capital interests. This is financial imperialism like we've never seen it before.





This is a list of countries by external debt, the total public and private debt owed to nonresidents repayable in foreign currency, goods, or services,[1] where the public debt is the money or credit owed by any level of government, from central to local, and the private debt the money or credit owed by private households or private corporations based in the country under consideration.

For informational purposes several non-sovereign entities are also included in this list. Note that this list is gross debt, not net debt.[citation needed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt





The euro convergence criteria (also known as the Maastricht criteria) are the criteria for European Union member states to enter the third stage of European Economic and Monetary Union (EMU) and adopt the euro as their currency. The 4 main criteria are based on Article 121(1) of the European Community Treaty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro_convergence_criteria





A sovereign default is a failure by the government of a sovereign state to pay back its debt in full.

If potential lenders or bond purchasers begin to suspect that a government may fail to pay back its debt, they may demand a high interest rate in compensation for the risk of default. A dramatic rise in the interest rate faced by a government due to fear that it will fail to honor its debt is sometimes called a sovereign debt crisis. Governments may be especially vulnerable to a sovereign debt crisis when they rely on financing through short-term bonds, since this creates a situation of maturity mismatch between their short-term bond financing and the long-term asset value of their tax base. They may also be vulnerable to a sovereign debt crisis due to currency mismatch if they are unable to issue bonds in their own currency, as a decrease in the value of their own currency may then make it prohibitively expensive to pay back their foreign-denominated bonds (see original sin).

Since a sovereign government, by definition, controls its own affairs, it cannot be obliged to pay back its debt. Nonetheless, a government which defaults may be excluded from further credit; some of its overseas assets may be seized; and it may face political pressure from its own domestic bondholders to pay back its debt. Therefore governments rarely default on the entire value of their debt. Instead, they often enter into negotiations with their bondholders to agree on a delay or partial reduction of their debt payments, which is often called a debt restructuring. The International Monetary Fund often assists in sovereign debt restructurings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_default

[IndependentCitizen]

I agree but riots are also remembered where as demonstrations seem to be forgotten too soon. A riot in the UK would be disastrous for the Tory government, attract international attention and get middle England thinking about the real reasons why a riot happened. We fight when provoked by their aggression and the cuts coming our way certainly count as aggression in my book.

I agree, and agree with supporting the French strikers. BUT! I've watched riot footage, it appears to be just youth fighting - not the strikers. So once the media gets the footage of the youth, they'll pin the blame on the strikers, and other peaceful protesters. It sucks that we never have any full backing from media giants, they can twist and manipulate stories quicker than you can say "viva la revolution". I think the riots at the moment should stop (Obviously I can't stop them) because they could potentially damage the union's image.

Now, if we compare the riot footage we've got from France to the 1990 poll tax riot, the media in France seem to only show the youth as the aggressors, but in the poll tax riot. Footage shows that the police were the aggressors...

If you get what I mean, I think I'm waffling now...

[Tower of Bebel]

I was in France last saturday and will probably go once more next weekend. The majority of the French population seems to support the strikes and a lot wouldn't mind a general strike even though there's already a shortage of fuel. Like many Belgian comrades I was there to give support to our French comrades. We regularly cross the border to campaign and demonstrate in Valenciennes, Lille and Paris.

When you're among demonstrators (I was in Paris) you notice the steady rise of class consciousness since the 90's. However, the trade union leadership still has firm control over its militants and there's almost no discussion among strikers about strategy or tactics.

So this seems to me the first step. The first step since the outbreak of the financial crisis. Many parties on the left have no idea of what to do although I think that the current existence of French militancy can only be explained by looking at the activities of several radical parties within the trade unions. Of course, objective conditions still play a major role.

[here for the revolution]

Today 20% of the country's petrol stations are either empty or about to sell their last drop - they could bring the entire country to a halt if they stay strong!

[IndependentCitizen]

Thers's not just been riots though. There's been massive demonstrations and mass strikes coupled with some violent protest. Despite the violence, over 70% of the French population support the movement as well.
I just felt that we need to both support the movement as a whole AND the few who decide to fight the system with violence. As long as they're not harming the cause, I support them!

And what about the media? Politicians could possibly bribe the media corporations into turning the tide and making the unions and strikers the aggressors, and not the politicians.

[Kiev Communard]

How're we meant to get people on our side if we're constantly fighting?

And how are we going to win in revolution if we renounce fighting in principle?

[IndependentCitizen]

And how are we going to win in revolution if we renounce fighting in principle?

Um, and how are we going to have a revolution when only a few countries are in the process of these protests?

I'm not renouncing violence, I'm suggest the French take it easy at the moment, as there's not enough momentum for a world wide movement.

[Kiev Communard]

I'm suggest the French take it easy at the moment, as there's not enough momentum for a world wide movement.

Well, if everyone follows the same positionm then this "momentum" would never materialise.

[pastradamus]

Yes to the OP, thats something eternally admirable about the french. They dont just protest and go home, they bring the state to its knees until they get what they want. One example Im thinking of is when they were Blocking up all the main arteries to the cities during the recent taxi strike - Brilliant.

[BeerShaman]

[QUOTE=IndependentCitizen;1900361] And the media already brands anyone striking 'militant wreckers', imagine what they'd do to a socialist march turning into a riot here?QUOTE]

I love great marches turning into great riots! My life's dream!:lol:

[graymouser]

The League for the Fifth International just put out a very good update on what's going on in France:

http://www.fifthinternational.org/content/france-movement-spirit-revolution

[IndependentCitizen]

Well, if everyone follows the same positionm then this "momentum" would never materialise.


Good luck having a minority take on the EU! You know, the people who have special forces who are specifically designed to pamper down any minor unrest that could escalate into a revolution. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/aug/06/politics.globalisation

How are we meant to combat this with a minority? If we were to have a revolution Unions from across need to work together to help gain momentum. Otherwise a few riots won't do shit.

[Red Panther]

Tomorrow we will know the fate of the French Movement.

I believe the government is voting on the issue, and Sarkozy said he didnt care what the protesters wanters, he was going to do it to "ensure the future for retirees and pensioners" so it doesnt go broke or something like that.

However, I don't think the protests should stop just because the bill gets accepted by the French parliament. The cuts will keep on coming in all capitalist countries and we have the duty as workers to resist. We cannot just give up because it passes through parliament.
I say protest, occupy and riot! We will not let them win!

[IndependentCitizen]

I really don't understand the wanting to riot, it seems like unnecessary action. It won't attract people, we need demos that are friendly, and peaceful. That way we can attract the non-partisans and get them on our side.

It's too soon to provoke a revolution, we simply don't have the coordination!

[timbaly]

I really don't understand the wanting to riot, it seems like unnecessary action. It won't attract people, we need demos that are friendly, and peaceful. That way we can attract the non-partisans and get them on our side.

It's too soon to provoke a revolution, we simply don't have the coordination!

I'm with you on this one. It's hard to win over hearts and minds when rioting is going on. It damages the drawing power of these movements when it occurs in the early stages. I see no need to riot unless the protesters are met with physical violence. There will not be much sympathy for an violent angry mob.

[RadioRaheem84]

I disagree. I also find it interesting that an American and Brit are the ones saying that riots and disruptive behavior aren't worthy of stemming off reform.

Sorry, I hate to single out Anglo-American way of looking at events in other countries especially the Latin European countries. I am an American too but appreciate the level of rigorous disruption the French go through to get the government to meet their demands.

Disruption is key.

I have to ask though, what is it about rioting and high level of disruption that just rubs Americans and Brits off, especially when it comes to workers rights?

[timbaly]

I disagree. I also find it interesting that an American and Brit are the ones saying that riots and disruptive behavior aren't worthy of stemming off reform.

I think it is worthy but I don't think it should be done unless the protests are met with physical violence in this particular case. I believe it's too early in the movement to resort to rioting. I just don't see it appealing to most of the populace right now.




I have to ask though, what is it about rioting and high level of disruption that just rubs Americans and Brits off, especially when it comes to workers rights?


Personally I have nothing against disruption. I just think that it does not need to be i the form of rioting yet. It's one thing to disrupt civil society by surrounding buildings or blocking important roads and it's another thing to riot and cause destruction.

[BeerShaman]

It is the passing of sentiment of action that radicalises people more than the expressing of organisation. However the most important is the power of the mass, this is what influences the most. It is just that both approaches of protesting are useful, depending on the case and the protesters' motives and needs.

[BeerShaman]

Ask a person working on the road what he/she prefers. Ask a person working on a place that will get attacked what he/she prefers. And then ask a motivated protester what he/she prefers. Finally, you will learn.

[here for the revolution]

Personally I have nothing against disruption. I just think that it does not need to be i the form of rioting yet. It's one thing to disrupt civil society by surrounding buildings or blocking important roads and it's another thing to riot and cause destruction.

I see what you are saying, but when it gets to the point that Sarkozy has created an emergency cabinet and sanctioned the use of, what are essentially, SWAT teams to clear out protesters and prevent them from blocking off oil refineries etc. - what can you do? The only options I see are retreating, sitting there peacefully and getting arrested/beaten or resisting. I think that is mostly why the riots have become so widespread - because the government is attempting to use force to repress the people and prevent their demands from carrying any weight, and the people are not allowing it.

[Reznov]

I think it is worthy but I don't think it should be done unless the protests are met with physical violence in this particular case. I believe it's too early in the movement to resort to rioting. I just don't see it appealing to most of the populace right now.



Agreed. We have no leaders or groups coordinating these strikes as has been said in this thread.

We all know how the media will twist this to fit their bull shit propaganda against the movement.

And I also have to agree, if we keep rioting now it will look like we are a just a bunch of punks and youngsters who are angry with no plan. I say let Sarkozy keep pushing his BS policy's till almost every average worker is willing to go one strike and fight back against their capitalist system.

[Ocean Seal]

I just want to praise our comrades in France, protesting against an increase in the retirement age! :lol: I also want to offer support to protesters arrested in some of the riots. If only we had riots like that in the UK! :(
Hasta la victoria siempre!
It should be noted that Sarkozy wants to do more than just raise the retirement age. We need to run him the hell out of France and establish a nation for workers. Its about time truly, solidarity with all workers especially those who are suffering in jail. I have an overwhelming sentiment that the government won't last.

[ckaihatsu]

Everyone here's acting like France is an island separated from the rest of the world. Instead of just *watching* what's going on within its borders we should be making *conclusions* about events there -- does the rest of the world *agree* with what Sarkozy is doing to the strikers, or what???

[Reznov]

Everyone here's acting like France is an island separated from the rest of the world. Instead of just *watching* what's going on within its borders we should be making *conclusions* about events there -- does the rest of the world *agree* with what Sarkozy is doing to the strikers, or what???

What's the difference between "making conclusions" and "watching"?
I am not in France and am not able to go so that is all I can do and hope that the Workers choose whats best for them.

[ckaihatsu]

I think it is worthy but I don't think it should be done unless the protests are met with physical violence in this particular case. I believe it's too early in the movement to resort to rioting. I just don't see it appealing to most of the populace right now.





Agreed. We have no leaders or groups coordinating these strikes as has been said in this thread.

We all know how the media will twist this to fit their bull shit propaganda against the movement.

And I also have to agree, if we keep rioting now it will look like we are a just a bunch of punks and youngsters who are angry with no plan. I say let Sarkozy keep pushing his BS policy's till almost every average worker is willing to go one strike and fight back against their capitalist system.





Everyone here's acting like France is an island separated from the rest of the world. Instead of just *watching* what's going on within its borders we should be making *conclusions* about events there -- does the rest of the world *agree* with what Sarkozy is doing to the strikers, or what???





What's the difference between "making conclusions" and "watching"?


The difference is *being political*. I'm not pointing any fingers here, I'm saying that, at the moment, the physical confrontation between Sarkozy and the strikers should be the #1 *worldwide* concern, and this should be the topmost politics of the day for everyone.





I am not in France and am not able to go so that is all I can do and hope that the Workers choose whats best for them.


This goes far beyond just the workers of France alone.

[ckaihatsu]

---





The workers’ opposition has immense support in the population as a whole, which overwhelmingly opposes the cuts and supports the strike movement. It is critical, however, that the struggle be consciously conducted as a political fight for power—to bring down the Sarkozy government and replace it with a workers’ government.

The first prerequisite for victory is a break with the trade unions and the establishment of new, democratic organizations of working class struggle. The World Socialist Web Site urges workers in France to form committees of action, independent of the unions and the existing “left” parties, to broaden the strike movement, unite all sections of the working class—the employed and unemployed, native-born and immigrant, union and non-union, young and old—and mobilize behind the immense social power of the working class all of the oppressed layers of society.

The committees will provide a means for French workers to reach out to workers across Europe and internationally who face the same attacks from the same source—the international capitalist class. The crisis can be solved only on a European-wide and worldwide basis, through the revolutionary unification of the international working class.

The committees of action will fight for a general strike to bring down Sarkozy. As the mass movement develops, these committees can be broadened into workers’ councils, which will become the organs of working class political power.

Only on this basis can revolutionary socialist policies be carried out to harness and expand the productive forces for the benefit of the people, and end their subordination to corporate profit and the personal enrichment of a tiny elite.

http://wsws.org/articles/2010/oct2010/pers-o22.shtml

[here for the revolution]

Terribly sorry ckaihatsu, I thought I'd already made it clear I completely support the French workers and find Sarkozy's efforts to brush their views under the carpet incredibly tyrannical and disgusting. As such, I support any and every effort of the French workers to resist subjugation by the state's clubs and gas, and indeed I support them in their efforts to topple Sarkozy.
Personally, I don't see how anyone could agree with the methods or the principle of Sarkozy ignoring the French workers.

[ckaihatsu]

Absolutely, HFTR -- and, for the record, I agree with you 100%.

My concern in making my previous statement is so that people don't start feeling too corralled or limited only to national borders. We've been watching the world economy's rolling bubble burble up to this point of having nowhere else to go but to the nation-state itself, and so the speculative attacks are now on sovereign debt and national currencies themselves. This brings the class confrontation to the fore since capital is now in a direct contradiction with its own political unit, the nation-state, and the only possible way out of such a contradiction is to join forces to scapegoat the working class.

France happens to be at the very center of the geopolitical map, so to speak, so it's not too surprising that world events are now concentrated there. This is an excellent moment in time for people to polarize accordingly and express international solidarity with the French strikers against the predations of global capital.

[~Spectre]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/oct/20/france-protest

[BeerShaman]

Is anyone here a french student active in the recent events? Or anyone who can communicate with them?

[Diello]

Is anyone here a french student active in the recent events? Or anyone who can communicate with them?

I know a French student (though she's fairly apolitical). She's not been online in some weeks, but next time she comes on I intend to interrogate her thoroughly about it.

[BeerShaman]

I know a French student (though she's fairly apolitical). She's not been online in some weeks, but next time she comes on I intend to interrogate her thoroughly about it.
Thanks. By the way it would be more important if I find someone that has been active recently. Anyway, maybe she could help. Thanks.

[Kiev Communard]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/oct/20/france-protest

Wow, some comments there make me think that the majority of population in Britain and the U.S. is definitely brainwashed :(. Blaming strikers and "lazy workers" for everything, while pretending that capitalists are some kind of saints - how stupid one can be?

[RadioRaheem84]

Mark Weisbrot is awesome. A good left wing economist who refers to the pensions as rights and not "entitlements" or "privileges".

The comments are distressing and show that the commentators didn't even read the brilliant article. Every American I know thinks of the French as lazy no goods.

[S.Artesian]

Check this out:

http://felisniger.blogspot.com/

[Burn A Flag]

Mark Weisbrot is awesome. A good left wing economist who refers to the pensions as rights and not "entitlements" or "privileges".

The comments are distressing and show that the commentators didn't even read the brilliant article. Every American I know thinks of the French as lazy no goods.

Interestingly enough, for the past two years my social studies teachers have had some sort of fetish about hating France and the French. It's actually quite sad.

[Reznov]

Terribly sorry ckaihatsu, I thought I'd already made it clear I completely support the French workers and find Sarkozy's efforts to brush their views under the carpet incredibly tyrannical and disgusting. As such, I support any and every effort of the French workers to resist subjugation by the state's clubs and gas, and indeed I support them in their efforts to topple Sarkozy.
Personally, I don't see how anyone could agree with the methods or the principle of Sarkozy ignoring the French workers.

Yeah, i'm not going to make a cool dramatic speech. So I'll just quote this one.


But was ckaihatsu implying that we don't support the workers? We wouldn't be here if we didn't...

The only reason we are critical is because we want to make sure these protests actually lead to somewhere and Left wing groups can capitalize or avoid them depending on what the right action might be (Which I am not claiming I know, which is why are talking right now.)

[the last donut of the night]

Question: are the oil-worker strikes correlated to the retirement reforms in any way?

[the last donut of the night]

But was ckaihatsu implying that we don't support the workers? We wouldn't be here if we didn't...

obviously you're new to revleft

[ckaihatsu]

---





But was ckaihatsu implying that we don't support the workers? We wouldn't be here if we didn't...





Absolutely, HFTR -- and, for the record, I agree with you 100%.

My concern in making my previous statement is so that people don't start feeling too corralled or limited only to national borders. We've been watching the world economy's rolling bubble burble up to this point of having nowhere else to go but to the nation-state itself, and so the speculative attacks are now on sovereign debt and national currencies themselves. This brings the class confrontation to the fore since capital is now in a direct contradiction with its own political unit, the nation-state, and the only possible way out of such a contradiction is to join forces to scapegoat the working class.

France happens to be at the very center of the geopolitical map, so to speak, so it's not too surprising that world events are now concentrated there. This is an excellent moment in time for people to polarize accordingly and express international solidarity with the French strikers against the predations of global capital.

[KC]

The union bureaucracy are already starting to move to side with the state. The garbage workers have ended their strike as well as some petrol workers. I don't think we are going to see a mass swing to the left until this situation develops further, perhaps after the bill is passed. I don't think it's over obviously; this development was expected.

What are the French socialists doing??? Where is the agitation?

Edit: apologies I'm on my phone and so can't post a link, but wsws has a good article on the latest news regarding the strike. I didn't know this previously, but France is struggling to retain it's aaa credit rating and the pension cuts are the lynchpin in this whole mess. If they don't pass this pension cut their credit rating will most likely be downgraded to aa or a, which could trigger a Greek style debt crisis in the country and destabilize the entire eurozone economy.

In short, this struggle is MUCH more crucial than I realized.

[BeerShaman]

The union bureaucracy are already starting to move to side with the state. The garbage workers have ended their strike as well as some petrol workers. I don't think we are going to see a mass swing to the left until this situation develops further, perhaps after the bill is passed. I don't think it's over obviously; this development was expected.

What are the French socialists doing??? Where is the agitation?

Edit: apologies I'm on my phone and so can't post a link, but wsws has a good article on the latest news regarding the strike. I didn't know this previously, but France is struggling to retain it's aaa credit rating and the pension cuts are the lynchpin in this whole mess. If they don't pass this pension cut their credit rating will most likely be downgraded to aa or a, which could trigger a Greek style debt crisis in the country and destabilize the entire eurozone economy.

In short, this struggle is MUCH more crucial than I realized.
I would love this! Do you realize something like that could cause the beginning of a revolution?

[Ol' Dirty]

If only we had riots like that in the UK! :(


If the rumors about parliament putting in new austerity measures are true, I doubt you'll have long to wait. It won't happen here, though... we don't have many welfare programs to cut. :lol:

And also I'm really proud -and jealous- for the French working class. Let's hope that this is the successful version of '68 :)

[Kiev Communard]

The problem of France is that the unions are fighting merely to preserve the old gains, not to secure new ones, not even mentioning the prospects of overthrowing the capitalist system. Nowadays even the (genuine) struggle for moderate reforms is innately intertwined with the opposition to capitalism as a whole, because capitalist state is no longer able or willing to provide new concessions to the working class within the framework of profit-based economic system, even though the modern (genuine) reformists (whose numbers are constantly dwidnling) do not want to understand that.

That's why I fear that such a defensive (protecting the welfare state reforms of 1980s), not the offensive (demanding not simply their preservation, but their expansion) spirit of unions constitutes a potential obstacle to the further development of the movement, and, judging from recent news of "strikes faltering" the legalism and the readiness to obey the "will of national representatives" is also a big problem that is the more worse if taking into account the fact that the defeat of the French workers would have grave consequences for the possible development of militant mood across the whole Europe.

[RadioRaheem84]

The union bureaucracy are already starting to move to side with the state. The garbage workers have ended their strike as well as some petrol workers. I don't think we are going to see a mass swing to the left until this situation develops further, perhaps after the bill is passed. I don't think it's over obviously; this development was expected.

What are the French socialists doing??? Where is the agitation?

Edit: apologies I'm on my phone and so can't post a link, but wsws has a good article on the latest news regarding the strike. I didn't know this previously, but France is struggling to retain it's aaa credit rating and the pension cuts are the lynchpin in this whole mess. If they don't pass this pension cut their credit rating will most likely be downgraded to aa or a, which could trigger a Greek style debt crisis in the country and destabilize the entire eurozone economy.

In short, this struggle is MUCH more crucial than I realized.

Wow. I had no idea. This is why the French government is desperate to pass the bill.

Any new developments on this, KC? Anyone?

[KC]

Wow. I had no idea. This is why the French government is desperate to pass the bill.

Any new developments on this, KC? Anyone?

I'd suggest checking out wsws.org more often. They really are one of the highest quality socialist news sources out there; atm I can't even think of anything that comes close. Where most organizations put forward a cursory reporting on what happens and then fill the other 80% of the article with exclamatory crap, they actually report on the important stuff. Of course they sometimes include that crap too, but it's easy to gloss over it.

Check out this article:



French strike movement at a crossroads

27 October 2010

The strike movement in France against President Nicolas Sarkozy’s pension cuts is at a political crossroads. Despite Sarkozy’s deep unpopularity and mass hostility to the austerity measures, the government is on the offensive, demanding that workers abide by the recent Senate passage of the pension bill.

The principal reason for this is the treachery of the unions and so-called “left” parties. Amid a media campaign to pressure workers into abandoning the struggle, trade union officials are signaling that they want to end the strikes. On France2 television Monday night, General Confederation of Labor (CGT) leader Bernard Thibault declared that from now on opposition “will take other forms.”

French and Democratic Confederation of Labor (CFDT) leader François Chérèque added that Sarkozy’s cuts are “still perfectible,” and that as “the parliamentary debate draws to a close, we will be taking another point of view.”

Economy Minister Christine Lagarde hailed the unions’ comments yesterday, saying she thought the struggle was at a “turning point.” Top state officials and union leaders all expect that the strikers—politically isolated and feeling the bite of lost pay—will be forced back to work.

The union bureaucrats are shamelessly betraying the strikes despite the fact that they continue to have a powerful economic impact. Ports remain closed, municipal and transport workers are continuing their walkouts, and most of France’s refineries are still on strike despite repeated police raids to break blockades and force employees back to work. Over 70,000 youth protested against Sarkozy’s cuts yesterday, and some 25 percent of France’s gas stations are still empty.

The unions’ abandonment of the strikers is entirely consistent with the bankrupt protest politics they have promoted from the outset, in conjunction with the so-called “left” parties.


Source (http://wsws.org/articles/2010/oct2010/pers-o27.shtml)

Basically, the same shit that has happened is still happening; the union bureaucrats are being used as a "buffer" against the state, by allowing striking to occur at such an extent and then cutting off their support in favor of "other means" to derail the popularity of the movement and isolate them from the mass of the population. This is, of course, even as the majority of French people support the strikes, and even support a general strike. So we'll see where this goes in the next couple of days. The movement really is at a crossroads. Either they'll become politically isolated, people will stop supporting them for various reasons, the strikers will go on vacation and the movement will fizzle, or they will draw conclusions from this about the complicity of the union bureaucrats with the state forces and will open up a new phase of the struggle.

Remember that struggle commonly happens in periods of crisis not when that crisis itself occurs, nor when it "bottoms out," but rather when the economy is starting to recover from the crisis. People take time to take in information and process it, and to act on it. Organizations, groups and classes take even more time to do so, because it must be done on such a large scale. This is why the austerity programmes are being passed now and why we are also starting to see a rise in militant action.

[Tower of Bebel]

I don't know why a credit rating of aa would turn France "Greek". France hasn't the same kind of debts as the Greek government and is situated higher in the imperialist pecking order. A more likely possibility is abuse. The government uses the globalized devision of labor to implement global capitalist politicies. A lowered credit rating could be used to falsely claim that France needs pension reforms (like all the rest).

[RadioRaheem84]

True. I think that any lowering of the credit rating wouldn't be detrimental to French Society as a whole, but it would be for the bourgeoisie and they would put those costs onto the French people to pay for, leading to revolt. They do not even want to entertain either scenario, which is why they're avoiding it and passing the reforms in order to deal with "meager" strikes they can stand and ignore rather than full blown revolution.

[KC]

I don't know why a credit rating of aa would turn France "Greek". France hasn't the same kind of debts as the Greek government and is situated higher in the imperialist pecking order. A more likely possibility is abuse. The government uses the globalized devision of labor to implement global capitalist politicies. A lowered credit rating could be used to falsely claim that Franceneeds pension reforms.

Well that's why they're arguing for the cuts right now. (http://www.businessandleadership.com/leadership/item/23034-french-budget-minister-warn)

Also, see this report (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/16/business/global/16rating.html) on Moody's assertions regarding the downgrading of debt rating for several countries. This is a huge deal.

[ckaihatsu]

Alongside the developing currency wars there's also the increasing possibility of China establishing its own, separate debt regime, through its *own* system of credit rating agencies.... (This would be a break with the Western hegemony over debt, as with Moody's, etc.)