Zeitgeist 3

[Amphictyonis]

The preview-





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Thoughts?

[Q]

I liked Addendum myself, it really was a huge improvement on the original (despite the somewhat anticlimax ending). I hope the third will similarly feature improvement over the second :)

[RedHal]

looks good, yeah hopefully they progress to having more realistic solutions than super computers solving all our social and economic problems :rolleyes:

[Taikand]

looks good, yeah hopefully they progress to having more realistic solutions than super computers solving all our social and economic problems :rolleyes:

What's wrong with super computers?Of course I do not say that they will save all our problems but they can be the most useful tools we have now.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Addendum could have done without the conspiracy bullshit though.

[Q]

Addendum could have done without the conspiracy bullshit though.
I don't remember much of that in Addendum?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I don't remember much of that in Addendum?

Don't you remember that bit where they talk about the Trilateral Commission (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commission#Criticisms) and shit?

[Q]

Don't you remember that bit where they talk about the Trilateral Commission (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commission#Criticisms) and shit?

No, but I believe your word for it :p

[Black Sheep]

i m hoping for some revolutionary fucking content in the transition description!
Not like 'quit your job if you quit in a bank, lol! ' of addendum.

[NewSocialist]

Not this crap again. The sort of technological utopianism this film producer supports is not going to do much in the way of revolutionary change. It appeals only to hippies and sci-fi geeks. Try showing this stuff to a regular worker and they'll laugh. And rightly so. The emancipatory technology Shitegeist "reveals" to us is not even in existence and it probably won't be within our lifetime. Should we just wait for robots to be able to reproduce themselves, as well as commodities, or should we fight to overthrow capitalism as soon as possible and start building socialism with the technology we have now?

[Lobotomy]

Addendum could have done without the conspiracy bullshit though.

I heard something about the creator of the video losing interest the conspiracy parts and focusing more on the Fed. Could be wrong though. Personally I haven't seen Addendum.

[Amphictyonis]

I agree that structural violence kills more people than 'street violence' and is the cause of most street violence/poverty/inequality. I also agree prisons are profit driven if not outright then by having a place to store the unemployed population- a population which is necessary for profits to be made under capitalism. I don't agree with the euphemisms they use to avoid using the term capitalism. "Monetary system". Just say it! Capitalism! Fuck.


I've criticized the zeitgeist movment for not understanding capitalism and what it will take to end it, a surprising quote to hear was at the 4:30- 4:50 mark in the preview where Jacque Fresco basically admits ending capitalism without violent revolution is impossible. Or am I wrong? From what I gather the zeitguist movment doesn't advocate revolution. What did he mean when he said what he said? Maybe people should start sending Peter Joseph some Marx. Or invite him to post here?

[Amphictyonis]

Don't you remember that bit where they talk about the Trilateral Commission (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commission#Criticisms) and shit?

To be fair there are actually meetings between capitalists and politicians where they hash out which direction they want to take the global economy. It is the capitalists state but concerning ourselves with the details is silly. It's best just to understand why the state exists. It's the capitalists tool to perpetuate class society. Whatever they must do to keep that paradigm going they will do. The modern agenda is in fact a sort of global government BUT this is only because capitalism, in order to survive, must go global. In order for the global market to survive there must be a sort of global regulatory body able to tame the "anarchy" of the market. (I use the term anarchy as a layman would understand it- a better term would be chaos).

Most of the conspiracy theories come from the paleo conservative perspective- people unwilling to see capitalism for what it is and all too quick to blame everything on some unseen boogieman (usually Jewish bankers). The problem isn't a 'price/monetary' system or conspiracies but CAPITALISM itself. I'd like to see the zeitgeist people take on some basic Marxist views.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I agree that structural violence kills more people than 'street violence' and is the cause of most street violence/poverty/inequality. I also agree prisons are profit driven if not outright then by having a place to store the unemployed population- a population which is necessary for profits to be made under capitalism. I don't agree with the euphemisms they use to avoid using the term capitalism. "Monetary system". Just say it! Capitalism! Fuck.

What also annoys me is the Marxist tendency to assume an intellectual monopoly on anti-capitalist ideas. The capitalist price system can be attacked from many angles, not all of them unreasonable.

[Manic Impressive]

Not this crap again. The sort of technological utopianism this film producer supports is not going to do much in the way of revolutionary change. It appeals only to hippies and sci-fi geeks. Try showing this stuff to a regular worker and they'll laugh. And rightly so. The emancipatory technology Shitegeist "reveals" to us is not even in existence and it probably won't be within our lifetime. Should we just wait for robots to be able to reproduce themselves, as well as commodities, or should we fight to overthrow capitalism as soon as possible and start building socialism with the technology we have now?

I showed it to a worker and now he's an anarchist. I showed it to some middle class people and they got interested in actually looking at the faults of the system. These same people would not have picked up and read a copy of the communist manifesto or even questioned the capitalist system at all.

Maybe the question is how come we have been less effective than the Sci-fi hippy geeks in a time when we should be excelling?

[Widerstand]

I showed it to a worker and now he's an anarchist. I showed it to some middle class people and they got interested in actually looking at the faults of the system. These same people would not have picked up and read a copy of the communist manifesto or even questioned the capitalist system at all.

Maybe the question is how come we have been less effective than the Sci-fi hippy geeks in a time when we should be excelling?

Because large parts of the left are living in the past and think people growing up with sci-fi action movies, flashy animations and sound effects actually enjoy reading old, jargonized, largely irrelevant (in regards to modern times) texts about some abstract notion of historical determinism.

Or to put it in the words of CrimethInc.: Your politics are boring as fuck.

Or to put it in the words of Kurhaus: We need new sensations and a future pornography.

The old ideas themselves aren't so bad. Or are they?

What these movies do, no matter how nutjob they are, is make people question, and they do this because they come in a form most people are already accustomed to.

[Manic Impressive]

I couldn't agree more comrade. (except I think many of the texts are still hugely relevant)

I first got the Zeitgeist movie from a friend who got it from someone who had made a few hundred copies and handed them out it. It is the same as the pamphleteering that was done in ye olde times but easier.

We should totally do it, lets make a film it could be a revleft project made through donations. I'm sure we must have some people with some editing skills and I know we would have enough people to write it then all we need to do is find someone with a sexy voice to use a studio to record it.

OK I don't know much about making a film but it's totally doable. Who's with me? :D

[Q]

I couldn't agree more comrade. (except I think many of the texts are still hugely relevant)

I first got the Zeitgeist movie from a friend who got it from someone who had made a few hundred copies and handed them out it. It is the same as the pamphleteering that was done in ye olde times but easier.

We should totally do it, lets make a film it could be a revleft project made through donations. I'm sure we must have some people with some editing skills and I know we would have enough people to write it then all we need to do is find someone with a sexy voice to use a studio to record it.

OK I don't know much about making a film but it's totally doable. Who's with me? :D

You would think so huh? Well, been there, done that. In January I started the The Leftist Video Project (http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=354) which attracted nothing but people who were thinking "cool!" but couldn't do anything. I ended up handing it over to the first best who claimed some experience and the group died down somewhere in July.

It's not that easy.

[Manic Impressive]

Nothing is that easy but anything is possible.

If you're up for reviving that group I'll help to try and stir up some support.

[Q]

Nothing is that easy but anything is possible.

If you're up for reviving that group I'll help to try and stir up some support.
I no longer maintain the group, but anyone can join and stir shit up ;)

[Dick Van Guard]

w w w.youtube.com/watch?v=LnAbtTk2DhY (sorry - can't post links yet!)

A match made in heaven?

[Amphictyonis]

You would think so huh? Well, been there, done that. In January I started the The Leftist Video Project (http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=354) which attracted nothing but people who were thinking "cool!" but couldn't do anything. I ended up handing it over to the first best who claimed some experience and the group died down somewhere in July.

It's not that easy.

I would be all in. I can't offer much as far as editing, animation or special effects but I could definitely have (intellectual) input as far as creating modern Marxist media. Peter Joseph has done a good job of hitting peoples emotions. If his films were given a few tweeks and twists here and there they could be spot on. I'd be interested to have him or some of his representatives interact with actual revolutionaries outside of Alex Jones.

[Dimentio]

The thing about Zeitgeist is literally that it is communism without communism, or rather, a communism without communists. People in general - at least those not too entangled into the capitalist system, appreciate the ideas. They don't - however - appreciate the communists.

As a Swedish conservative party leader once said: "They like our ideas, but they hate us."

[Amphictyonis]

The thing about Zeitgeist is literally that it is communism without communism, or rather, a communism without communists. People in general - at least those not too entangled into the capitalist system, appreciate the ideas. They don't - however - appreciate the communists.

As a Swedish conservative party leader once said: "They like our ideas, but they hate us."

So we should all be subversive communists because Stalin was an asshat bastard? I'm not sure their crituque of capitalism is a socialist critique at all. It's almost in line with the paleo-conservative critique. The banking system has been their focus and not the overall structure of capitalism.

They'd do well to gain credibility amongst leftist intellectuals/activists/workers if they actually put forth a rational critique of capitalism and a viable path to rid humanity of it. Drop the euphemisms and hit the meat and potatoes. Focus on class and the history of class struggle- not just the 'monetary system'.

[Dimentio]

So we should all be subversive communists because Stalin was an asshat bastard? I'm not sure their crituque of capitalism is a socialist critique at all. It's almost in line with the paleo-conservative critique. The banking system has been their focus and not the overall structure of capitalism.

They'd do well to gain credibility amongst leftist intellectuals/activists/workers if they actually put forth a rational critique of capitalism and a viable path to rid humanity of it. Drop the euphemisms and hit the meat and potatoes. Focus on class and the history of class struggle- not just the 'monetary system'.

Sadly, leftist intellectuals in generally have a very low credibility amongst workers in most western nations. So what they say is mostly not worth so much. My impression from the zeitgeisters I met is that the vast majority are solidly working class, of immigrant origin and people who are utterly disillusioned with politics.

[Amphictyonis]

Sadly, leftist intellectuals in generally have a very low credibility amongst workers in most western nations.

Sad but true. Anytime Sara Palin gets more air time on TV/Radio than a Chomsky or Michael Parenti the end result will be, well, what we see in America (right wing fucktardedness). The Zeitgeist films have indeed done some good as far as chipping away at bourgeois mass media/propaganda but I can't get behind it (gung ho) when so much of the critique of capitalism is coming from a strange perspective.

I'd like to see the next film focus on the history of economic systems and what it has taken to change each mode of production. They focus a lot of attention on what a future society should look like but the road to it is ignored.

[Dimentio]

Sad but true. Anytime Sara Palin gets more air time on TV/Radio than a Chomsky or Michael Parenti the end result will be, well, what we see in America (right wing fucktardedness). The Zeitgeist films have indeed done some good as far as chipping away at bourgeois mass media/propaganda but I can't get behind it (gung ho) when so much of the critique of capitalism is coming from a strange perspective.

I'd like to see the next film focus on the history of economic systems and what it has taken to change each mode of production. They focus a lot of attention on what a future society should look like but the road to it is ignored.

In Sweden, leftist intellectuals are really dominating the official media outlets in terms of opinion pieces and debate agenda, but generally the people are turning to the right anyway.