Visions of a Free Society

[Havet]

A look at non-market libertarianism. Very interesting

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Thoughts?

[Havet]

bump going once...

[Kiev Communard]

Well, the very idea of "free-market anti-capitalism" is basically flawed - just as with "state socialism". One needs to go beyond the dichotomy of "state vs. free market" and look at the real causes of exploitation and class society - such as social division of labour and the chaotic nature of economic transactions, to which both "free market" and "centralized planning" from above are partisans.

[Jazzhands]

I already saw this video. It's part of a three part series.

The first one is called "Work Sucks" and explores capitalist exploitation not from a Capital-style Marxist perspective but by emphasizing the damage capitalism inflicts on the physical and well-being of individuals in the context of a 21st-century service-based economy. An interesting thing I found is his analysis of the pro-capitalist argument. Pro-marketeers love to demonize the Soviet Union for its economic system, but they fail to realize that the ruling bureaucratic clique and the modern capitalist use essentially the exact same methods.

The second is called "workers' self-management" and it's about how it works, specific examples in history, and why only non-centralist methods can be used to end capitalism. It makes a lot more sense if you remember the arguments from Work Sucks.

The OP video is the third part. I'm no proponent of Market Socialism or anything of the sort, but this is a really good series, especially the first part.

[Red Poplar]

Workers' self-management is my favourite economical system, I see it as the most equitable of all. Who could manage a company better than its own workers? The employers' council elects a director who looks after the minor matters himself, while the council manages human resources and other major matters. In a factory, workers get a large discount if they want to buy its products, because it was them who produced those very products. Eventual profits of a company are allocated to modernisation or expansion of the inventory, or bonuses and benefits, depending on the council's decision, so nobody unfairly accumulates the excess earnings.

[ComradeMan]

Workers' self-management is my favourite economical system, I see it as the most equitable of all. Who could manage a company better than its own workers? The employers' council elects a director who looks after the minor matters himself, while the council manages human resources and other major matters. In a factory, workers get a large discount if they want to buy its products, because it was them who produced those very products. Eventual profits of a company are allocated to modernisation or expansion of the inventory, or bonuses and benefits, depending on the council's decision, so nobody unfairly accumulates the excess earnings.

Of course once you take away the capitalist need to create surplus and also the materialistic society that buys, consumes, throws away and then buys again a lot of industrial output and mass production (mad production) would become obsolete. This would allow workers to produce more what was needed, products would be better because they would also be made to last and more time could be dedicated to research and improvement.

[Red Poplar]

Of course once you take away the capitalist need to create surplus and also the materialistic society that buys, consumes, throws away and then buys again a lot of industrial output and mass production (mad production) would become obsolete. This would allow workers to produce more what was needed, products would be better because they would also be made to last and more time could be dedicated to research and improvement.


Self-management was in power in SFRY from 1950 to 1990. People worked hard, from 6:00 to 14:00 (the so-called socialist working schedule, waking up earlier was compensated by more free time in the afternoon), but nobody complained. Once you got yourself a job, you would most likely be financially secured for the rest of your life, because it would take hell of a lot of shit doing to make the workers' council fire you. Women also actively worked, which was seen as an advanced feature at the time, so there were less children by family, healthcare became free and accessible, which increased life expectancy to 78 years, there were migrations from rural to urban areas, expansion of cities, new residential buildings and industry, education became more anre important, and college-educated workers were very appreciated and well-paid. Life was generally slow-paced, which left pople with more time for themselves, their families and loved ones. The 70s/80s era is especially described as an innocent period by those who lived through their youth then. Less worries on people's minds also led to good music and art as a whole, which is also important.

Those 40 years pushed us forward immensely, from an agricultural, primitive state to a modern and advanced one. Unfortunately, during the last 20 years we fell back again, both regarding economy (our GDP is lower than in 1990), and social life (women again start to experience discrimination, mostly because of ruthless capitalism and the resurface of old, patriarchal "values", nationalism has also resurfaced). We don't have the unity to take down our corrupt government, the people are frustrated, but we just can't find a proper solution, because the opposition parties seem no better than the ruling one. My homeland is on its knees :(

[ComradeMan]

Self-management was in power in SFRY from 1950 to 1990. People worked hard, from 6:00 to 14:00 (the so-called socialist working schedule, waking up earlier was compensated by more free time in the afternoon), but nobody complained. Once you got yourself a job, you would most likely be financially secured for the rest of your life, because it would take hell of a lot of shit doing to make the workers' council fire you. Women also actively worked, which was seen as an advanced feature at the time, so there were less children by family, healthcare became free and accessible, which increased life expectancy to 78 years, there were migrations from rural to urban areas, expansion of cities, new residential buildings and industry, education became more anre important, and college-educated workers were very appreciated and well-paid. Life was generally slow-paced, which left pople with more time for themselves, their families and loved ones. The 70s/80s era is especially described as an innocent period by those who lived through their youth then. Less worries on people's minds also led to good music and art as a whole, which is also important.

Those 40 years pushed us forward immensely, from an agricultural, primitive state to a modern and advanced one. Unfortunately, during the last 20 years we fell back again, both regarding economy (our GDP is lower than in 1990), and social life (women again start to experience discrimination, mostly because of ruthless capitalism and the resurface of old, patriarchal "values", nationalism has also resurfaced). We don't have the unity to take down our corrupt government, the people are frustrated, but we just can't find a proper solution, because the opposition parties seem no better than the ruling one. My homeland is on its knees :(

Un mondo crudele e vile.... What a crap world this is turning out to be! I think everywhere is pretty bad. I remember when an espresso was 500 lire and less, less than 25 eurocents and now it's over a euro in some places, thats in the space of 8 years or so. People used to be more generous too. However until Yugoslavia and excluding N.Ireland we were also the most dangerous country in Europe...! :cool: 1970's was pretty rough to, Anni di Piombo- the Years of Lead.