White guy saying N word

[bailey_187]

Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjP31-z9moA&feature=player_embedded

Basicaly its a white guy from Stonebridge in London rapping but using the N word. I was kind of shocked when i seen it first, but then i was talking to a friend about it and he said it dont offend him because its a different context. He said if all the people there in the video were white, it would be different and he would find it offensive. Due to this guy being from the estate, facing same hardship, friends, neighbours etc all be black, my friend said he isnt any more offended than when a another black person says it. :confused:

Some people on here know alot more about racism/race so i was hoping for some comments on it here please

[Stand Your Ground]

No one should use it IMO due to it's history.

[ed miliband]

I like how you mention he's from Stonebridge when very few people who post here are going to have idea where Stonebridge is; may as well say he's from NW10. :lol:

I don't really think I can comment on this tbh. On the one hand I think the context the guy is using the word in is worth considering, and if he is amongst black friends (and family, maybe) who don't take offense to his usage of the word that is also worth baring in mind. But... the n word is the n word is the n word, etc. It's shocking regardless.

[Muzk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Cv0NCaKB7A
Watch the beginnin.

[mikelepore]

The word has to be used when reporting on some historical events. After the klan murdered four civil rights activists in Mississippi in 1964, the klan talked among themselves about what they had done. Their bragging about their crime is part of the evidence for condemning them, therefore, in teaching history students today about the event, the word should be included. If a history lesson were to say, "The first killer said to the second killer, ' I got me a [expletive deleted]'", that would be a ridiculous form of reporting.

However, I would like to see the word omitted from comedy routines, song lyrics, etc. This casual use has the effect of keeping the word around as a common component of some people's conversation.

[Die Rote Fahne]

It is very ignorant of him to use it, however I'm also annoyed at the fact that instead of titling this thread "White guy saying 'nigger'" you used "n-word".

Here's George Carlin's opinion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZCS5I80X-8

[¿Que?]

http://comedians.jokes.com/donald-glover/videos/donald-glover---can-t-say-it

This a funny bit about the ambiguities that surround the "N" word. I thought this was funny.

[Apoi_Viitor]

No one should use it IMO due to it's history.

But what happens if everyone uses it so frequently, that it loses its meaning?

Anyways, I kind of empathize with George Carlin's point of view, 'it's all about context'. But what he fails to mention, is that 'context' goes both ways; you have to take into consideration not only how 'you intend to use the word', but how 'other people will interpret it'. So unless you are amongst people who you know, won't 'get the wrong idea' from your usage of the term, then I think its acceptable to use it.

[bailey_187]

It is very ignorant of him to use it, however I'm also annoyed at the fact that instead of titling this thread "White guy saying 'nigger'" you used "n-word".

Here's George Carlin's opinion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZCS5I80X-8


I would rather annoy you because of some George Calin video you watched than to offend someone by actually using the word. Amongst my friends that are black, its only acceptable for someone who isnt black (like me) to say "the N-word", so thats what i do without thinking.

Why does everyne on the internet post George Calin videos for everything?

[Thirsty Crow]

I would never, and I mean NEVER, use such a word since I do not have any friends or loved ones who may identify themselves with the oppressed group in question. Moreover, I don't really enjoy the aesthetic of the cultural form in question (rap), so I don't see any reason whatsoever for engaging in something that could lead to a serious misunderstanding.
However, what this case seems to represent is a weird instance of the appropriation of a sign (the sign being...the word in question).
And yeah, I do believe that an oppressed group may chose not to avoid a curse word with such a history - and give it a new meaning instead, through more or less careful use.
But every single instance of this should be judged by the concrete context, provided that details are known.
Political correctness won't lead to the extermination of oppression.

I mean, who the hell am I to tell some African Americans (or other people of African descent in Europe, U.S.A etc.) not to use the word??

[Vanguard1917]

Words acquire meaning through context, and i don't think he's using the word in a racist context. I wouldn't call him a racist.

That said, he does have a tattoo on his neck and about 85 friends, so i probably wouldn't call him anything.

[L.A.P.]

Honestly I don't think it is real that big of a fucking deal as long as the person is not saying it with actual racist intent.

[Queercommie Girl]

Honestly I don't think it is real that big of a fucking deal as long as the person is not saying it with actual racist intent.

That's not for you to decide, but rather it's for the black community to decide.

[Die Rote Fahne]

I would rather annoy you because of some George Calin video you watched than to offend someone by actually using the word. Amongst my friends that are black, its only acceptable for someone who isnt black (like me) to say "the N-word", so thats what i do without thinking.

Why does everyne on the internet post George Calin videos for everything?

Why would someone be offended by saying the word?

I can see them being offended if the context was racist, however, in a discussion on the word nigger, there should be no issue with just saying it so long as the context remains outside of the racist.

If you were like "hey, wahts up nigga/nigger" that would be ignorant and you shouldn't do that.

If you are discussing "So, we need to have a talk on why the word nigger is derogatory", why would anyone be offended? I had a college professor, very left wing, self-proclaimed communist, who whilst discussing race also discussed racism and listed off bigoted terms. Aloud he said, with Asians and a like one black person present "nigger, kike, spic, chink...all of these are bigoted terms....".

Fear of a word...it makes no sense.

[Die Rote Fahne]

That's not for you to decide, but rather it's for the black community to decide.

Why? Who gives certain groups definitive power over words?

We understand why saying "nigger" in a racist context is abhorred. We understand it is disgusting and insulting due to it's history. It's the history of it's use you must note. It's use was racist, demeaning, insulting.

However, it's context is important. Right now. The topic of this thread is the use of the word "nigger". In the context I use, it is merely a context of academic value.

Would I out of nowhere say the word? No. Would I use it to describe something? No. Would I call someone "nigger"? No.

I can't comprehend how the non-racist use of the word could insult someone.

Once again, fear of a word.

[L.A.P.]

That's not for you to decide, but rather it's for the black community to decide.

I never knew the black community had this certain organization where they can decide where they stand on things on behalf of all black people. Fuck that, I'll let each individual black person I know decide on how they feel and you don't know if I'm black or not.:D

[bailey_187]

That's not for you to decide, but rather it's for the black community to decide.

there is no single "black community" though

The section of Stonebridge "black community" (if u could even call it that) in video are cool with the use of the word. But in my area, if i was to start referring to my friends as the N-word, even in the way this guy is, im likley to piss people off if not get a slap in the face.

[bailey_187]

That said, he does have a tattoo on his neck and about 85 friends, so i probably wouldn't call him anything.


lol i think he's in prison now too

[Queercommie Girl]

there is no single "black community" though

The section of Stonebridge "black community" (if u could even call it that) in video are cool with the use of the word. But in my area, if i was to start referring to my friends as the N-word, even in the way this guy is, im likley to piss people off if not get a slap in the face.

It's true that one would have to respond flexibly to different concrete situations in all cases.

Marxism is about the concrete analysis of concrete situations, after all.

[Tomhet]

I don't use this word.. Why would I? People find it offensive.. It has no point other then to offend..

[Stand Your Ground]

But what happens if everyone uses it so frequently, that it loses its meaning?

Anyways, I kind of empathize with George Carlin's point of view, 'it's all about context'. But what he fails to mention, is that 'context' goes both ways; you have to take into consideration not only how 'you intend to use the word', but how 'other people will interpret it'. So unless you are amongst people who you know, won't 'get the wrong idea' from your usage of the term, then I think its acceptable to use it.
In a sense it should never lose it's meaning, we must learn from history, and learning means not letting the same mistakes go unchecked.

[Reznov]

No one should use it IMO due to it's history.

Oh shut the fuck up, you pussy.

Everyone uses "chink" "nigga" "nigger" "sphick" "cracker" "honkey" "jigga bo" "chico" and god knows any other slangs term you can come up with and calls each other that in my school.

The context of the word has changed nowadays, saying nigger or nigga just isn't offensive anymore, except for White People who are middle to higher class.


And if one of you way to sensitive *****s even says "That offends me though! You are just approving years of racial discrimination!! wahh wahh I think im a liberator" you need to toughen up a little bit, because you are going to get called worser things in life than that.

[bricolage]

The context of the word has changed nowadays, saying nigger or nigga just isn't offensive anymore, except for White People who are middle to higher class.
Just at the beginning of summer I got in a taxi in Sheffield and was chatting to the driver when he said he hoped he didn't have to pick up any 'black niggers' that night. Has the context changed for that too? Is it only middle class white people that are offended by that?
I think you have a very narrow understanding of how such words are used today.

[timbaly]

And if one of you way to sensitive *****s even says "That offends me though! You are just approving years of racial discrimination!! wahh wahh I think im a liberator" you need to toughen up a little bit, because you are going to get called worser things in life than that.

It's more important to understand why these words offend people and what they truly mean than it is to just brush them aside as no longer relevant. People still use these words to be hurtful as bricolage pointed out. Also it's one thing to have tough skin and not to be hurt by the insults and it's another thing to dismiss them and irrelevant. Even if you get called worse things in life it does not mean you should tolerate racial slurs. There's no need to use the words as insults or otherwise. They often subversively reinforce racism.

[Queercommie Girl]

Oh shut the fuck up, you pussy.

Everyone uses "chink" "nigga" "nigger" "sphick" "cracker" "honkey" "jigga bo" "chico" and god knows any other slangs term you can come up with and calls each other that in my school.

The context of the word has changed nowadays, saying nigger or nigga just isn't offensive anymore, except for White People who are middle to higher class.

And if one of you way to sensitive *****s even says "That offends me though! You are just approving years of racial discrimination!! wahh wahh I think im a liberator" you need to toughen up a little bit, because you are going to get called worser things in life than that.


If everyone is supposed to not get bothered by any insults etc, then what's the point in fighting against racism at all?

And what is wrong with having a "pussy", why is that not as good as having a "penis"? Don't you think the use of that word is somewhat sexist?

Always relying on the "tough white working class male" style doesn't work in a lot of situations.

[Reznov]

Just at the beginning of summer I got in a taxi in Sheffield and was chatting to the driver when he said he hoped he didn't have to pick up any 'black niggers' that night. Has the context changed for that too? Is it only middle class white people that are offended by that?
I think you have a very narrow understanding of how such words are used today.

I'm sure we can tell thousands of one-on-one situations in which you can make pretty much whatever you would like to hear, but im speaking from my time when I was in 3 different high schools and this was just the general attiude I saw being expressed by almost everyone.

Well no shit the context changed, he obviously said them in a racist way. You understand the word context right?


Ah, I know I cannot bear have the knowledge that you have on how words are used today in American Society, but like I said, in High School (including the two different ones I also went to) this was how these words were used by almost everyone in a non-insulting way.

[Reznov]

If everyone is supposed to not get bothered by any insults etc, then what's the point in fighting against racism at all?

And what is wrong with having a "pussy", why is that not as good as having a "penis"? Don't you think the use of that word is somewhat sexist?

Always relying on the "tough white working class male" style doesn't work in a lot of situations.

Because sometimes these words arent used as insults.
The Point? Ummm, because Human beings should always be treated as such, regardless of their skin complexion?

Nice strawman there Iseul.

I am not White. So if you are going to try to connect me to a negative sterotype, please use my correct Race.

[Reznov]

It's more important to understand why these words offend people and what they truly mean than it is to just brush them aside as no longer relevant. People still use these words to be hurtful as bricolage pointed out. Also it's one thing to have tough skin and not to be hurt by the insults and it's another thing to dismiss them and irrelevant. Even if you get called worse things in life it does not mean you should tolerate racial slurs. There's no need to use the words as insults or otherwise. They often subversively reinforce racism.

Thank you and you have a valid point.

I wasn't suggesting that we just brush them aside and forget everything about the racial slang terms, but when people use it in a joking manner without the racist connotations it shows how far we have become more tolerant of each other.

Of course people still use it as a racist, there is always a person that is going to be dumb bigot, sadly we cannot do anything about them though execpt ignore them.

And yes, I did come off a little harsh and like an all-around geniune asshole, but I wasn't trying to insult and bring up racial hatred by posting here. I was just showing that it is good to have a tough shell and not get so insulted easily.

I dont use the word at all personally, but I was just stating what I saw in High School from most of the other students.

If you think that it subversively reinforces racism then thats your opinion. I think it shows how far we have gone away from stupid racial divides.

[bricolage]

Well no shit the context changed, he obviously said them in a racist way. You understand the word context right?
You said 'The context of the word has changed nowadays' which implies universality. Obviously there are different contexts for different times/places but that wasn't what you were saying.

[Ocean Seal]

What's relevant is the intent. The "N-word" has been used as a derogatory word against blacks and other oppressed minorities and in this case the use is disgusting, but it is not the particular use that is disgusting, but rather the fact that it is actively promoting a sentiment of superiority. The point your friend makes is sound first of all it is not being used in the same context as the former. I don't think that we should encourage this word because it is offensive and bears a negative connotation, but I think that we should also not chastise it because then we are changing the meaning of a word from something trivial to something relevant.

[Reznov]

You said 'The context of the word has changed nowadays' which implies universality. Obviously there are different contexts for different times/places but that wasn't what you were saying.

Well, that is what I meant to say. My apologies for the confusion.

(Nice job on the grammar mis-usage watch!)

[727Goon]

I dont get offended when white people say nigga, but probably 90 percent of the time they look fucking stupid as hell. I mean it's whatever, where I'm from most everyone says nigga, but white people saying it does usually bother me, not because I think they mean anything by it but it just doesnt sound right. So if you're white you probably shouldnt say it.

[727Goon]

No one should use it IMO due to it's history.

Any other words you dont think us negroes shouldnt be using? I guess it is a bit uppity of us to decide what language we find to be acceptable as a community and from now on we'll just defer to benevolent white people like yourself.

[timbaly]

Thank you and you have a valid point.

I wasn't suggesting that we just brush them aside and forget everything about the racial slang terms, but when people use it in a joking manner without the racist connotations it shows how far we have become more tolerant of each other.

I think it does show tolerance in a sense and shows some solidarity but I think it's not a critical solidarity and tolerance. I get the vibe that people tolerate each other in these multi-cultural/ethnic schools but they rarely are able to understand the silliness in stereotypes and stereotyping.


I dont use the word at all personally, but I was just stating what I saw in High School from most of the other students.

If you think that it subversively reinforces racism then thats your opinion. I think it shows how far we have gone away from stupid racial divides.

I went to some very ethnically, racially, and culturally diverse schools in New York and I definitely believe that there were few people that were openly or overtly racist. Though many of them used the racial slurs against each other in joking ways I always felt that they still bought into stereotypes and occasionally ended up deeply offending people (especially after 9/11). I think it's one thing to be tolerant of those who are different and another to truly empathize with others. There's great potential for true solidarity beyond tolerance at schools like the ones we went to but there need to be a way of building solidarity beyond tolerance. Do you feel similarly?

[the last donut of the night]

Oh shut the fuck up, you pussy.

Everyone uses "chink" "nigga" "nigger" "sphick" "cracker" "honkey" "jigga bo" "chico" and god knows any other slangs term you can come up with and calls each other that in my school.

The context of the word has changed nowadays, saying nigger or nigga just isn't offensive anymore, except for White People who are middle to higher class.


And if one of you way to sensitive *****s even says "That offends me though! You are just approving years of racial discrimination!! wahh wahh I think im a liberator" you need to toughen up a little bit, because you are going to get called worser things in life than that.

Funny thing is, this is exactly -- word for word too -- what the racists at my school say when I confront them about their own usage of racial slurs.

Good job, kid, you've won the Internet Dick award

[WeAreReborn]

If everyone is supposed to not get bothered by any insults etc, then what's the point in fighting against racism at all?

And what is wrong with having a "pussy", why is that not as good as having a "penis"? Don't you think the use of that word is somewhat sexist?

Always relying on the "tough white working class male" style doesn't work in a lot of situations.
I absolutely agree with you, but to be devil's advocate "dick" is a negative term as well. But I do think these critical and insensitive words are just that and not needed in a healthy society. Though I am not going to lie and say I don't use derogatory terms but in general I stay away from racist and sexist ones..

[Hiero]

I'm sure we can tell thousands of one-on-one situations in which you can make pretty much whatever you would like to hear, but im speaking from my time when I was in 3 different high schools and this was just the general attiude I saw being expressed by almost everyone.


I will just bold that word for you.

[Reznov]

Any other words you dont think us negroes shouldnt be using? I guess it is a bit uppity of us to decide what language we find to be acceptable as a community and from now on we'll just defer to benevolent white people like yourself.

:thumbup1:

[ryacku]

I honestly believe that people shouldn't be offended by these words. Without an offensive value, they would lose their meaning and never be used.

[Stand Your Ground]

Any other words you dont think us negroes shouldnt be using? I guess it is a bit uppity of us to decide what language we find to be acceptable as a community and from now on we'll just defer to benevolent white people like yourself.
Some people on here are fucking bonkers.

You are completely twisting what I said. I said NO ONE should use that word, or any discriminatory slur for that matter. You act as if I'm being racist by saying people should say racial slurs? And then you come at me with a 'white people' stereotype, job well done jackass.

[bcbm]

Oh shut the fuck up, you pussy.

Everyone uses "chink" "nigga" "nigger" "sphick" "cracker" "honkey" "jigga bo" "chico" and god knows any other slangs term you can come up with and calls each other that in my school.

The context of the word has changed nowadays, saying nigger or nigga just isn't offensive anymore, except for White People who are middle to higher class.


And if one of you way to sensitive *****s even says "That offends me though! You are just approving years of racial discrimination!! wahh wahh I think im a liberator" you need to toughen up a little bit, because you are going to get called worser things in life than that.

yeah bro, chest bump unnnh

[HEAD ICE]

Oh shut the fuck up, you pussy.

Everyone uses "chink" "nigga" "nigger" "sphick" "cracker" "honkey" "jigga bo" "chico" and god knows any other slangs term you can come up with and calls each other that in my school.

The context of the word has changed nowadays, saying nigger or nigga just isn't offensive anymore, except for White People who are middle to higher class.


And if one of you way to sensitive *****s even says "That offends me though! You are just approving years of racial discrimination!! wahh wahh I think im a liberator" you need to toughen up a little bit, because you are going to get called worser things in life than that.

you made that post just so you can write some racial epithets

[Jazzratt]

I love these threads. It's amazing the lengths people will go to in order to construct excuses for saying whatever racist shit they feel like. Unfortunately on my quick scan of the preceding pages I didn't see too much of my absolute favourite part of these threads where it's implied that being offended by anything is a massive moral failing and a sign of total spinelessness.

[ZeroNowhere]

It's amazing the lengths people will go to in order to construct excuses for saying whatever racist shit they feel like.Nobody has said anything racist in this thread, as far as I recall.


In a sense it should never lose it's meaning, we must learn from history, and learning means not letting the same mistakes go unchecked.The mistake here being the fact that 'nigger' was a corruption of the Spanish 'negro'? It's certainly not the case that racism arose because of unchecked usage of the word 'nigger'.


If everyone is supposed to not get bothered by any insults etc, then what's the point in fighting against racism at all?Oh, I (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws) don't (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust) know (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa_under_apartheid).


Funny thing is, this is exactly -- word for word too -- what the racists at my school say when I confront them about their own usage of racial slurs.Yes, these racists would only get disturbed by the words if they were used in racist contexts.


Everyone uses "chink" "nigga" "nigger" "sphick" "cracker" "honkey" "jigga bo" "chico" and god knows any other slangs term you can come up with and calls each other that in my school.This is the best sentence ever written on the Revleft Discrimination board. This is because the Discrimination board is the Revleft equivalent of Singapore in terms of sterility, and as such there was not a particularly high standard set.

[Stand Your Ground]

The mistake here being the fact that 'nigger' was a corruption of the Spanish 'negro'? It's certainly not the case that racism arose because of unchecked usage of the word 'nigger'
You're misunderstanding what I said. I was stating that it was used a derogatory term and should be reguarded as such, to dismantle it's use.

[syndicat]

young black and Latino people here in California sometimes use the N word in reference to each other. seems part of local hip hop culture. i cringe when i hear the word. if i'd used that word as a kid my grandmother would have slapped me upside the head. but i'm white and it's not my affair to tell them what language to use. i gather that the word came to be adopted to express contempt for the people who use it as an insult. it's like thumbing your nose at white society, or at least the cracker mentality.

[synthesis]

young black and Latino people here in California sometimes use the N word in reference to each other. seems part of local hip hop culture. i cringe when i hear the word. if i'd used that word as a kid my grandmother would have slapped me upside the head. but i'm white and it's not my affair to tell them what language to use. i gather that the word came to be adopted to express contempt for the people who use it as an insult. it's like thumbing your nose at white society, or at least the cracker mentality.

I was just saying this same thing over in OI: It's not that "hip-hop culture" popularized that "in-group" usage, but that it made that usage more known to people who aren't of the "in-group." I also don't think that any significant percentage of its usage is expressing any sort of political or social consciousness. I'm not really sure how to articulate this, exactly, but just think of how many people were referred to exclusively by that word throughout history.

[Old Man Diogenes]

It is very ignorant of him to use it, however I'm also annoyed at the fact that instead of titling this thread "White guy saying 'nigger'" you used "n-word".

Here's George Carlin's opinion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZCS5I80X-8

Carlin makes some good points, but I agree with Pyror's, 'nigger' is a term from a time when black men and women were not free, we shouldn't be in age of 'niggers' or 'crackers' anymore.

[Hiratsuka]

That's not for you to decide, but rather it's for the black community to decide.

Blacks don't all share the same opinion on the subject. I really hate when people frame an entire demographic into one "consensus."

On the whole subject of African-American vernacular, I think a white or Hispanic person who grew up in shady urban areas using words like "nigger" casually as a synonym for "bro" makes more sense than wealthy black students who measure their home's square footage in four digits "acting black."

Words like "nigger" are hot potatoes. If you're going to use them, be somewhat intelligent, regardless of who you are.

[727Goon]

Some people on here are fucking bonkers.

You are completely twisting what I said. I said NO ONE should use that word, or any discriminatory slur for that matter. You act as if I'm being racist by saying people should say racial slurs? And then you come at me with a 'white people' stereotype, job well done jackass.

If you're white it's not your place to be saying what words we use amongst ourselves. You don't see me telling gay people not to say Queer because its not my culture.

[727Goon]

Blacks don't all share the same opinion on the subject. I really hate when people frame an entire demographic into one "consensus."

On the whole subject of African-American vernacular, I think a white or Hispanic person who grew up in shady urban areas using words like "nigger" casually as a synonym for "bro" makes more sense than wealthy black students who measure their home's square footage in four digits "acting black."

Words like "nigger" are hot potatoes. If you're going to use them, be somewhat intelligent, regardless of who you are.

Who says "nigger" as a synonym for bro?

[The Black Comrade]

Well me being black i take offence to it regardless. Using a term of oppression and of hate as a term of endearment is really backwards. Regardless, if you use a word that is ok in the context of some people but not others, you should stop using it. Its really that simple. :3

[IndependentCitizen]

HAHAHAHAHAHA! That video is so funny.

[Сталин]

Honestly I don't think it is real that big of a fucking deal as long as the person is not saying it with actual racist intent.
Exactly. I have some black friends that don't care if I say it. People give that word too much power.

[Stand Your Ground]

If you're white it's not your place to be saying what words we use amongst ourselves. You don't see me telling gay people not to say Queer because its not my culture.
So explain to my why anyone would want to say any discriminatory term, for any reason at all?

[Vampire Lobster]

I guess this is one of those cultural things. I live in a country with a rather homogeneous ethnic structure (Finland) and pretty much only black people are rather recent immigrants. Before 1990's there was nothing wrong with using the local equivalent of the term 'nigger' but it has faded out since, as it became associated with the rampant racism of that decade. In its original form, however, the term doesn't have the kind of history it has in the States and I'm not really offended whenever I see some random punks referring to each other (= other white people) as 'niggas', as they are only referring to modern US popular culture with this. Some of my friends do it too, ironically, knowing precisely how stupid it sounds. Hardly a big deal from my point of view, but I'd never use the word in the States, even in an ironic context, knowing how they tend to be a bit more sensitive - for a bloody good reason - when it comes to stuff like this.