Black people are 26 times more likely than whites to face stop and search

[bricolage]

Black people are 26 times more likely than white people to be stopped and searched by police (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/police) in England and Wales, the most glaring example of "racial profiling" researchers have seen, according to an international report.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/oct/17/stop-and-search-race-figures

This comes after a similar Guardian article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/oct/11/black-prison-population-increase-england) (albeit one with a correction) on the shocking levels of black people imprisoned in the UK.

[timbaly]

Wow. I've never read reports on stop and frisks outside of the US. I'm surprised by the huge discrepancy. I would expect blacks to be stopped and searched more but not by these numbers. In New York City blacks and latinos are nine times more likely to be stopped and frisked than whites.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/13/nyregion/13frisk.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/13/nyregion/13frisk.html)

[Obzervi]

Wow. I've never read reports on stop and frisks outside of the US. I'm surprised by the huge discrepancy. I would expect blacks to be stopped and searched more but not by these numbers. In New York City blacks and latinos are nine times more likely to be stopped and frisked than whites.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/13/nyregion/13frisk.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/13/nyregion/13frisk.html)

First of all I would like to advise you and other to quit using these categories "black" and "white" as if they are realities and not just social constructs. You are just reinforcing in people's heads the idea that "race" exists. There is NO such thing as race. Skin color differentiation is a result of latitude and UV radiation. By the way, I've never seen a person with black or white skin.

[brigadista]

First of all I would like to advise you and other to quit using these categories "black" and "white" as if they are realities and not just social constructs. You are just reinforcing in people's heads the idea that "race" exists. There is NO such thing as race. Skin color differentiation is a result of latitude and UV radiation. By the way, I've never seen a person with black skin or white skin.

there obviously is to the old bill.....

[Amphictyonis]

'Black' people are also probably 26 times more likely to live in scarcity (poverty) than 'whites'. Living in poverty will drive Mother Teressa to "crime". The real crime is institutional violence, meaning, capitalism. Racism is a HUGE problem but even if it didn't exist at all capitalism would still create a population living in perpetual scarcity and this population would be segregated and subjugated just as the black community is experiencing now.

Under conditions of extreme scarcity human beings will eat other human beings. Different scales of scarcity warrants different human behavior. The immediate issues are ending employment discrimination but there will still be human beings in the same predicament (under capitalism) if that task is accomplished.

Crime is a problem in 'inner city' neighborhoods. Where I live more than 250 people are murdered each year. That's one person ever other day, sometimes two a day. The roots of this are economic. Peoples access to the means of production, or lack there of, dictate the reality we live in.

[timbaly]

First of all I would like to advise you and other to quit using these categories "black" and "white" as if they are realities and not just social constructs. You are just reinforcing in people's heads the idea that "race" exists. There is NO such thing as race. Skin color differentiation is a result of latitude and UV radiation. By the way, I've never seen a person with black or white skin.


I think they're real categories because they are social constructs. They're real because people think they are real. They are real concepts in our world just like god is a real concept. Even though scientifically we know race is a social construct this doesn't make it not real. It's not a real scientific concept but it's a real social construct.

How do you suggest I refer to those people commonly seen as "black" or "white" in the Western world?

As for the latitude thing and the UV radiation, I do not think that entirely accounts for skin color differences. People at the same latitiudes with very similar levels of UV exposure often have very different skin colors.

[bricolage]

'Black' people are also probably 26 times more likely to live in scarcity (poverty) than 'whites'. Living in poverty will drive Mother Teressa to "crime".
I don't think this is really about 'crime' though because you don't have to have done anything to be stopped and searched, most times it will be just because you are walking down the road and they don't like the look of you.

[Amphictyonis]

I don't think this is really about 'crime' though because you don't have to have done anything to be stopped and searched, most times it will be just because you are walking down the road and they don't like the look of you.

In a non racist capitalist society police would be 'patrolling' neighborhoods of people living in scarcity in order to fill the jails with "criminals". Right now, because of racism, the communities experiencing scarcity happen to be black.

[bricolage]

Right now, because of racism, the communities experiencing scarcity happen to be black.
Right but it isn't scarcity that means you will be stopped (although obviously poorer black people are more likely to be stopped than richer ones, but not for the reasons I think you are getting at) it's racist police attitudes.

[Amphictyonis]

Right but it isn't scarcity that means you will be stopped (although obviously poorer black people are more likely to be stopped than richer ones, but not for the reasons I think you are getting at) it's racist police attitudes.

This is one case where the chicken and the egg arrived at the scene at the same time. A cycle. Racism made the black community live in extreme scarcity. This scarcity in turn creates a desperate atmosphere where more crime is in fact committed. This culture living under forced scarcity (thanks to racism) feeds the pre conceived racist notions middle class white America has. A cycle. Police aren't any less racist than the average European/American petty bourgeois businessman. I think class has a great deal to do with it all. As you said "obviously poorer black people are more likely to be stopped than richer ones" but structural racism keeps many black people from attaining that privileged position. A sick cycle.

I'm not trying to minimize racism or it's effects on the black community the point I'm trying to get across is no matter what, under capitalism, there will be a population of poor subjugated people. Because of racism, right now, that population happens to be the black community. We should fight to fix that of course but....if we do, a whole new subjugate population will arise (perhaps multi racial)- like putting your finger in a leaky dam new holes will sprout up shooting water in all directions. It's a multi level struggle. Racism and class.

[Obzervi]

I think they're real categories because they are social constructs. They're real because people think they are real. They are real concepts in our world just like god is a real concept. Even though scientifically we know race is a social construct this doesn't make it not real. It's not a real scientific concept but it's a real social construct.

How do you suggest I refer to those people commonly seen as "black" or "white" in the Western world?

As for the latitude thing and the UV radiation, I do not think that entirely accounts for skin color differences. People at the same latitiudes with very similar levels of UV exposure often have very different skin colors.

Actually its a self-perpetuating cycle. As long as people such as yourself continue to assign people to different "races" the general public will feel the idea "race" being real to be reinforced. The goal should be to completely eliminate the word "race" from the public's mind and from everyday vocabulary. I don't know what the solution is because we need a way of referring to oppressed groups without using "racial" descriptors. I think the only way racism can disappear completely is if "white" people somehow no longer exist, due to mixing with other groups of people.

[Obzervi]

This is one case where the chicken and the egg arrived at the scene at the same time. A cycle. Racism made the black community live in extreme scarcity. This scarcity in turn creates a desperate atmosphere where more crime is in fact committed.

Your assertion that dark humans commit more crimes is false and blatantly racist. Its called racial profiling which leads police to monitor and even frame dark humans at a higher rate. Also the institutional racism within the justice system by which dark humans are given longer sentences for the same crimes.

[timbaly]

Your assertion that dark humans commit more crimes is false and blatantly racist. Its called racial profiling which leads police to monitor and even frame dark humans at a higher rate. Also the institutional racism within the justice system by which dark humans are given longer sentences for the same crimes.


I think that your use of the word "dark humans" is essentially a racial descriptor. You're still differentiating based on color. I'm not really sure what the answer to this either.

[Obzervi]

I think that your use of the word "dark humans" is essentially a racial descriptor. You're still differentiating based on color. I'm not really sure what the answer to this either.
No because I'm not placing them in an artificial racial category, skin in humans exists on a spectrum from light to dark.

[Cencus]

The numbers are hardly surprising, those of us old enough to remember the riots of the 80s remember the part the old sus laws paid in getting them started.

The Tories are gonna be getting rid of the paperwork related to stop n search so you won't see these kind of statistics again. Considering these forms were meant to stop the filth from abusing their powers I'm jumping for joy at the prospect.

[timbaly]

No because I'm not placing them in an artificial racial category, skin in humans exists on a spectrum from light to dark.


I see what you're saying but don't you think that color will become the new race? I feel like this will eventually create colorism instead of racism. Also it's often not about skin color, lighter skinned "black" Americans (with majority European ancestry) get profiled more than darker skinned "white" Americans (people with Mediterranean ancestory).

[Obzervi]

I see what you're saying but don't you think that color will become the new race? I feel like this will eventually create colorism instead of racism. Also it's often not about skin color, lighter skinned "black" Americans (with majority European ancestry) get profiled more than darker skinned "white" Americans (people with Mediterranean ancestory).

There is no "racial differences" other than skin color, so if a person with slightly darker skin gets profiles it is because of racism. Melanin is a result of latitude and UV radiation.

[armed_resistance]

Ahh, but who commits more crime statiscally?
That is why we need a racially homogeneous nation before socialism. We can only thank capitalism and it's proponent of multiculturalism for the death and injury of workers at the hands of foreigners.

[timbaly]

There is no "racial differences" other than skin color, so if a person with slightly darker skin gets profiles it is because of racism. Melanin is a result of latitude and UV radiation.

There are differences other than skin color. In the USA people who are light skined but have facial features or phenotypes considered to be "black" like or hair types considered to be "black" they get profiled more than "whites" with darker skin colors.

[apawllo]

not really surprising at all

[timbaly]

not really surprising at all


You don't think 26X more likely is surprising? In NYC its only 9X.

[apawllo]

and the rest are shot on sight. no level of racism supported by the elite of any western nation will ever surprise me.

[shaderabbit85]

Actually its a self-perpetuating cycle. As long as people such as yourself continue to assign people to different "races" the general public will feel the idea "race" being real to be reinforced. The goal should be to completely eliminate the word "race" from the public's mind and from everyday vocabulary. I don't know what the solution is because we need a way of referring to oppressed groups without using "racial" descriptors. I think the only way racism can disappear completely is if "white" people somehow no longer exist, due to mixing with other groups of people.

It seems like you were almost on to something, and then you boogered it up.
That last sentence is just a tad ethno-centrist, don't you think?