Why do people think an "iron fist" is bad?

[EvilRedGuy]

That an "iron fist" is bad? Isn't iron fist a symbol of communism, isn't it bourgeois propaganda that had led people to believe that it symbolizes "totalitarianism" or when peoples say "whith an iron fist" they are not refering to the communist fist?

[Crimson Commissar]

That an "iron fist" is bad? Isn't iron fist a symbol of communism, isn't it bourgeois propaganda that had led people to believe that it symbolizes "totalitarianism" or when peoples say "whith an iron fist" they are not refering to the communist fist?
When they say it in that way, it's often referring to the iron fist of a dictator. An iron fist that crushes all opposition in order to ensure it's supremacy. Unfortunately that is what many people think of when they hear about Communism or Socialism. The communist fist represents resistance to such authority however. Yeah, you could describe our fist as an "iron fist", but I don't really see the point in worrying about it...

[Diello]

That an "iron fist" is bad? Isn't iron fist a symbol of communism, isn't it bourgeois propaganda that had led people to believe that it symbolizes "totalitarianism" or when peoples say "whith an iron fist" they are not refering to the communist fist?

There's no reason a symbol can't have separate, possibly contradictory meanings in different contexts. Symbols possess only the meanings people ascribe to them. In my opinion, the most important thing is to try to utilize symbolism in a way that isn't actively misleading.

[Die Rote Fahne]

Are you confusing the leftist symbol of a raised fist with the term "iron fist"?

[Magón]

Have you ever read Jack London's The Iron Heel? You'd understand why some Leftist hate of the "Iron Fist" phrase from that.

[mikelepore]

I have never heard anyone talk about the iron fist of communism. Perhaps you are talking about an expression that is in general use in the English language. Someone could say, "After I drove the car into a tree, my parents took the car keys away from me. They came down on me with an iron fist." If an opponent of communism has used this metaphor with the idea of communism, they are using the general expression. It is not a customary symbol for communism.

[Quail]

That an "iron fist" is bad? Isn't iron fist a symbol of communism, isn't it bourgeois propaganda that had led people to believe that it symbolizes "totalitarianism" or when peoples say "whith an iron fist" they are not refering to the communist fist?
You shouldstop using an iron fist with the idea of getting dictatorish. Be with normal human being lols

[Quail]

Sprry I'mwasted lol. I apologise :)

[Ke Pauk]

An Iron-Fist to crush the Bourgoise is the only Iron Fist that I can believe in.

[Magón]

Sprry I'mwasted lol. I apologise :)

Me too, and I can write normal. :p

[Quail]

Lol sorry. I can't type becaue i am anh idiot.

[ZeroNowhere]

From what I recall, its usage to indicate authoritarianism dates back to the early 1700s, at least in the form of an 'iron hand' (the iron fist was also in use in the 1700s, though; if I recall correctly, it had already appeared by at least 1740). I believe that Carlyle had spoken of the term 'iron hand in a velvet glove', and credited it to Napoleon:

The Captain of the place, a gentleman of ancient Military or Royal-Navy habits, was one of the most perfect governors; professionally and by nature zealous for cleanliness, punctuality, good order of every kind; a humane heart and yet a strong one; soft of speech and manner, yet with an inflexible rigor of command, so far as his limits went: "iron hand in a velvet glove," as Napoleon defined it.

Ultimately, I think that it probably didn't have that much to do with communism.

[WeAreReborn]

From what I recall, its usage to indicate authoritarianism dates back to the early 1700s, at least in the form of an 'iron hand' (the iron fist was also in use in the 1700s, though; if I recall correctly, it had already appeared by at least 1740). I believe that Carlyle had spoken of the term 'iron hand in a velvet glove', and credited it to Napoleon:


Ultimately, I think that it probably didn't have that much to do with communism.
I agree, it isn't synonymous with Communism, however I have heard it used to describe Communism, mainly the Soviet Union though. The stereotype is just present due to Stalin and Stalinism and how the Soviet Union because a police state, but as we all know it wasn't true Communism.

[ContrarianLemming]

My avatar is what your talking about I assume?

it was an original leftist symbol, not capitalist lies, used since 2nd international I think.

[Dr Mindbender]

Margaret Thatcher was/is referred to as the 'iron lady'.

Im not sure it wasnt her supporters who coined this expression.

[ChaChaman]

Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
- George Orwell

[Red Commissar]

I don't think it matters even if we would have a sugar-coated image of our various movements. People will still have some bullshit fed to them to hate it.

[Ocean Seal]

That an "iron fist" is bad? Isn't iron fist a symbol of communism, isn't it bourgeois propaganda that had led people to believe that it symbolizes "totalitarianism" or when peoples say "whith an iron fist" they are not refering to the communist fist?
The fist in socialism is a symbol of the weak standing up to the current power structure and is thus not an iron fist as the iron fist is the concentration of power in few individuals and those (the strong) crushing the weak.

[Takanago]

Yeah, the fist is just something that has picked up all kinds of meanings that just depend on who you're talking to and in what context. As for the iron fist itself, that is really just a completely different symbol that just happens to also be a fist.

Hand shapes or gestures are something that everybody is familiar with, and so many people come up with their own meanings for things.

[ZeroNowhere]

My avatar is what your talking about I assume?

it was an original leftist symbol, not capitalist lies, used since 2nd international I think.
The Second International was formed a bit later than the 1700s, I think.

[thriller]

There's no reason a symbol can't have separate, possibly contradictory meanings in different contexts. Symbols possess only the meanings people ascribe to them. In my opinion, the most important thing is to try to utilize symbolism in a way that isn't actively misleading.

I worked at an Indian restaurant and some lady came up to me and started complaining that we were Nazi's. It took me a second but I realized she was referring to the swastikas on the walls. I had to explain to her that it is a Hindu symbol and Hitler stole it from them. Symbols have no meaning expect the meaning people give to them. I use the hammer and sickle because I am taking it back and it represents unity between agriculture and industry. I do not like the USSR and Lenin tho.

As for the iron fist, I think the term 'Iron Curtain' helped to relate iron fist to the former Soviet bloc.

[EvilRedGuy]

Thanks for the posts.