Turning a Right to the Left....

[Reznov]

Ok, so in one of my classes I have a friend who I have known for awhile now. Now, we talk pretty much about everything and recently, we have gotten into politics left wing right wing etc...

Now, the only political book he has read is Mein Kampf (God knows how he got it, I am also pretty damn sure that he has had to influenced his opinion on race, but I don't know how seriously he took the book, because he always seems to joke and laugh when we talk politics, but I think that might because of his personality)

Now he is not a self-proclaimed fascist or Klansmen or anything like that, but he is a White guy from the south who is pretty traditional, so you see where I am coming from.

I have convinced him and he agrees with almost everything that I have been telling him about why the Left is right American Imperialism etc...

But there is just one topic that he just wont come around to, and that is Race. Now, what gets me is that he is able to accept and he agrees with gay rights and he even said himself that he would support gay liberation and equality. He also fully agrees with me that workers are exploited by the bourgeoisie and that Revolution should take place.

But he just can't stand it when I bring racial issues up like ones here on revleft. He brings up points like this and I would like to get some good responses to reply to him,

He will say to me, Why don't you go to the "projects" and tell all of those people about revolution? Why try to convince middle-class whites? Shouldn't you be trying to appeal to them?

Why is it that it is only White people seem to be the only ones preaching your racial liberation?

Why do you say race is pointless and say Workers power but then you say we should support the black panthers and say "black power"?

Any advice Comrades in convincing him?

[Vendetta]

Why is it that it is only White people seem to be the only ones preaching your racial liberation?

http://www.eco-action.org/dod/no9/fred_hampton.jpg warning: graphic

The cops shot/imprisoned most black folk that actually tried to change shit.

And...we're not.

(Poor wording, I'm high).

[Ocean Seal]

Ok, so in one of my classes I have a friend who I have known for awhile now. Now, we talk pretty much about everything and recently, we have gotten into politics left wing right wing etc...

Now, the only political book he has read is Mein Kampf (God knows how he got it)

Now he is not a self-proclaimed fascist or anything like that, but he is a White guy from the south who is pretty traditional, so you see where I am coming from.

I have convinced him and he agrees with almost everything that I have been telling him about why the Left is right American Imperialism etc...

But there is just one topic that he just wont come around to, and that is Race. He agrees with the whole gay rights and he even said himself that he would support gay liberation. He also fully agrees with me that workers are exploited by the bourgeoisie and that Revolution should take place.

But he just can't stand it when I bring racial issues up like ones here on revleft. He brings up points like this and I would like to get some good responses

He will say to me, Why don't you go to the "projects" and tell all of those people about revolution? Why try to convince middle-class whites? Shouldn't you be trying to appeal to them?

Why is it that it is only White people seem to be the only ones preaching your racial liberation?

Why do you say race is pointless and say Workers power but then you say we should support the black panthers and say "black power"?
While I do support the panthers, if the guy has only read Mein Kampf then I wouldn't suggest bringing it up. Seriously don't talk about black power to someone doesn't want to hear about it, its not very practical. If he does open up the issue tell him that black power doesn't advocate black supremacy, but that its rather a protest against discrimination from the police/government/media and supports the idea that black people like all people should not have to deal with inequality. Focus on the idea that the struggle of the black man is almost identical with the struggle of the white man with the exception that minorities have to face an additional level of discrimination which causes them greater suffering.
For the projects point bring up the idea that you want to convince everyone and that all proletarians are equally important in bringing the revolution.
For racial liberation tell him that many minorities have supported their own liberation and use examples. Try also to draw parallels to when white minorities have been oppressed (Irish in the UK) and how this added level of discrimination should have been destroyed and how this is something that should be universally supported.

[Magón]

Tell your friend there's a couple of Mexican Anarchists in California. (That's me, and two other people I know of.)

[Apoi_Viitor]

He will say to me, Why don't you go to the "projects" and tell all of those people about revolution? Why try to convince middle-class whites? Shouldn't you be trying to appeal to them?

Shouldn't you try to convince anyone/everyone? I mean, both the petite-bourgeios and the proletariat are relevant for a successful revolution, so really, you need to convince the middle-class citizens, and the poor working-class citizens.


Why is it that it is only White people seem to be the only ones preaching your racial liberation?

What, Malcolm X, Mumia Abu-Jamal, and W. E. B. Du Bois are/were all white? Or did they not preach racial liberation?


Why do you say race is pointless and say Workers power but then you say we should support the black panthers and say "black power"?

The construct of race is pointless, but as long as racial hierarchies exist we need to confront them. Really, this is the equivalent of asking 'well, you believe in a classless society, but then you say you want a dictatorship of the proletariat?'

[ckaihatsu]

There's a saying that we see the world through the eyes of our own oppression. Along these lines you may want to find out what this guy *thinks* his *own* "oppression" is, however he may happen to conceive it. This would be the *emotional* approach, instead of a more-advanced, rational, doctrinaire *political* approach. For him politics *is* personal, and he's going to need some kind of personal "on-ramp" to start from. While someone like him may agree with your rational points in a polite, diplomatic way, inside they feel like the spotlight is being stolen from them, in favor of being passed to some people who -- however deserving -- are *not* him, and thus are *competing* with him for minority / oppressed status.

So appeal to his ego first, in political terms, and then see what you might do *later* to discipline it into a more universal-humanity kind of ethos....

[RedMaterialist]

He will say to me, Why don't you go to the "projects" and tell all of those people about revolution? Why try to convince middle-class whites? Shouldn't you be trying to appeal to them?

A couple of things: 1. He is making racist assumptions about black people: they all live in the projects, all people who live in the projects are black. 2. He believes that the only blacks who should be told about revolution are poor black people who live in the projects.

Why not ask him to go with you to appeal to a middle class black person (yes, they do exist) at your school? Why not ask him to go with you to poor white neighborhoods and preach revolution to them? Maybe too radical?


Why is it that it is only White people seem to be the only ones preaching your racial liberation?

Why do you say race is pointless and say Workers power but then you say we should support the black panthers and say "black power"?

Apparently not only whites are preaching racial liberation, but also black panthers.

[The Douche]

Non-white revolutionaries are everywhere.

[RED DAVE]

Give him a decent book to read:

http://www.amazon.com/Autobiography-Martin-Luther-King-Jr/dp/0446676500

RED DAVE

[arm]

It sounds to me as if he thinks there are inherent differences among races. You'll have to show him that race is a social construction rather than a biological constant. Mein Kampf is all about the "natural" differences between races, but the problem with such an idea is that there is nothing natural about socially constructed institutions.

When he makes a claim the first thing you should do is ask for empirical evidence, proof. Single instances of his lived experience do not represent the entirety of any group, the exception does not disprove the rule.

As was mentioned earlier, white's are not the only people "preaching racial liberation." Ask him how he can make such a claim? None of his claims will hold up when pressed.

The relationship between race and class, in marxist terms, are inherently connected. Race is used as a wedge to splinter the proletariat. To counter his black panther argument, or any instance where he might try to highlight differences between races rebut with equality. In a class system there are no social difference that can ultimately come between our shared relations to the means of production, capitalism, because they are the base to the superstructure (everything else).

[The Douche]

Also, he's probably making the same thread about you on stormfront.