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Sexy Red
12th October 2010, 23:24
SAN DIEGO – A federal judge issued a worldwide injunction Tuesday immediately stopping enforcement of the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy, suspending the 17-year-old ban on openly gay U.S. troops.
U.S. District Judge Virginia Phillips' landmark ruling also ordered the government to suspend and discontinue all pending discharge proceedings and investigations under the policy.
U.S. Department of Justice attorneys have 60 days to appeal. Pentagon and Department of Justice officials said they are reviewing the case and had no immediate comment.
The injunction goes into effect immediately, said Dan Woods, the attorney who represented the Log Cabin Republicans the gay rights group that filed the lawsuit in 2004 to stop the ban's enforcement.
"Don't ask, don't tell, as of today at least, is done, and the government is going to have to do something now to resurrect it," Woods said. "This is an extremely significant, historic decision. Once and for all, this failed policy is stopped. Fortunately now we hope all Americans who wish to serve their country can."
Legal experts say the Obama administration is under no legal obligation to appeal and could let Phillips' ruling stand.
Phillips' decision was widely cheered by gay rights organizations that credited her with getting accomplished what President Obama and Washington politics could not.


"This order from Judge Phillips is another historic and courageous step in the right direction, a step that Congress has been noticeably slow in taking," said Alexander Nicholson, executive director of Servicemembers United, the nation's largest organization of gay and lesbian troops and veterans.
He was the sole named veteran plaintiff in the case along with the Log Cabin Republicans, a gay rights organization that filed the lawsuit in 2004 to stop the ban's enforcement.


Gay rights groups warned gay troops not to make their sexual orientation public just yet. Aaron Tax, the legal director for the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, said he expects the Justice Department to appeal. If that happens, the case would be brought to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit, where the decision could be reversed.
"Service members must proceed safely and should not come out at this time," Tax said in a statement.
Supporters of the ban said Phillips overstepped her bounds.
"The judge ignored the evidence to impose her ill-informed and biased opinion on our military, endangering morale, health and security of our military at a time of war," said Wendy Wright, president of Concerned Women for America, a women's group on public policy. "She did not do what Congress did when it passed the law and investigate the far-reaching effects of how this will detrimentally impact the men and women who risk their lives to defend us."
The case put the Obama administration in the awkward position of defending a policy it wants Congress to repeal.
Defense Secretary Robert Gates, a Republican, and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Adm. Mike Mullen, the military's top uniformed officer, have both said they support lifting the ban. But Gates and Mullen also have said they would prefer to move slowly.
Gates has ordered a sweeping study, due Dec. 1, that includes a survey of troops and their families.
President Obama agreed to the Pentagon study but also worked with Democrats to write a bill that would have lifted the ban, pending completion of the Defense Department review and certification from the military that troop morale wouldn't suffer.
That legislation passed the House but was blocked in the Senate by Republicans.
Gates has said the purpose of his study isn't to determine whether to change the law — something he says is probably inevitable but up for Congress to decide. Instead, the study is intended to determine how to lift the ban without causing serious disruption at a time when troops are fighting two wars.
"The president has taken a very consistent position here, and that is: 'Look, I will not use my discretion in any way that will step on Congress' ability to be the sole decider about this policy here,' " said Diane H. Mazur, legal co-director of the Palm Center, a think tank at the University of California at Santa Barbara that supports a repeal.
Government attorneys had warned Phillips that such an abrupt change might harm military operations in a time of war. They had asked Phillips to limit her ruling to the 19,000 members of the Log Cabin Republicans, which includes current and former military service members.
The Department of Justice attorneys also said Congress should decide the issue — not her court.
Phillips disagreed, saying the law doesn't help military readiness and instead has a "direct and deleterious effect" on the armed services by hurting recruiting during wartime and requiring the discharge of service members with critical skills and training.
"Furthermore, there is no adequate remedy at law to prevent the continued violation of servicemembers' rights or to compensate them for violation of their rights," Phillips said in her order.
She said Department of Justice attorneys did not address these issues in their objection to her expected injunction.
Phillips declared the law unconstitutional after listening to the testimony of discharged service members during a two-week nonjury trial this summer in federal court in Riverside.
She said the Log Cabin Republicans "established at trial that the Don't Ask, Don't Tell Act irreparably injures servicemembers by infringing their fundamental rights." She said the policy violates due process rights, freedom of speech and the right to petition the government for redress of grievances guaranteed by the First Amendment.
Phillips is the second federal judge in recent weeks to throw the law into disarray.
A federal judge last month in Tacoma, Wash., ruled that a decorated flight nurse discharged from the Air Force for being gay should be given her job back as soon as possible. Barring an appeal, Maj. Margaret Witt who was suspended in 2004, will now be able to serve despite being openly gay.
Gay rights advocates have worried they lost a crucial opportunity to change the law when Senate Republicans opposed the defense bill last month because of a "don't ask, don't tell" repeal provision.
If Democrats lose seats in the upcoming elections, repealing the ban could prove even more difficult — if not impossible — next year.
The "don't ask, don't tell" policy prohibits the military from asking about the sexual orientation of service members but bans those who are openly gay. Under the 1993 policy, service men and women who acknowledge being gay or are discovered engaging in homosexual activity, even in the privacy of their own homes off base, are subject to dischargeSOURCE: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_gays_in_military;_ylt=AnJ1SIpDwOnHSppI2ma2Qras0 NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNqbTQ2dDdnBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAxMDEyL 3VzX2dheXNfaW5fbWlsaXRhcnkEY2NvZGUDbW9zdHBvcHVsYXI EY3BvcwMxBHBvcwMyBHB0A2hvbWVfY29rZQRzZWMDeW5fdG9wX 3N0b3J5BHNsawNqdWRnZW9yZGVyc2Q-#mwpphu-container

Please! Let's keep DADT dead!

Also, I never thought I'd see the day where I agreed with a Republican group. Even if it's just one issue.

bcbm
13th October 2010, 01:32
sending gays to be military fodder is NOT pro-gay or conclusive whatsoever to gay liberation. State militarism only reinforces the dominant structures, and the racism/heterosexism they perpetuate, as well as reducing the number of gay people in the world (both those in Amerikkka and the countries Amerikkka is colonizing/conquering).

on the other (http://bashbacknews.wordpress.com/2009/01/22/bash-back-communique-666/) hand (http://www.gaysagainstobama.org/2010/09/radical-queers-should-join-hrc-fight-to.html)

OriginalGumby
13th October 2010, 03:17
Bash back is so wrong on this. Stopping DADT is a victory for the left. It's not about the war, it's about the ideology of homophobia that is perpetuated by this on going policy and all policies that make people second class.

http://socialistworker.org/2010/06/02/steppingstone-toward-equality
http://socialistworker.org/2010/09/20/too-high-a-price

Fulanito de Tal
13th October 2010, 03:45
I've said this in a prior thread.

DADT is state sponsored discrimination.

It promotes a sexuality continuum based on partners' sex.
Other dimensions could be frequency, # of partners, location, age preference, "inter-racial", etc.

It defines the term homosexual.
Sex with partner of the same-sex or personal identity declaration.

It depreciates "homosexuals".
They are not fit to fight wars or serve in the military during peace time.

It promotes heteronormativity.
Normal sexuality is one woman and one man. Everything else is weird.

Lastly, this is a female rights issue. Homophobia stems from the thought that there are only two sexes with specifically defined and purposeful goals.

Man = Patriarch
Woman = Subservient

If a man has sex with a man, then who's the female? Uh oh. The 2 sexes theory is falsified. So, the theory is enforced through other manners such as state sponsored discrimination (e.g. DADT).

iwwforever
13th October 2010, 04:11
Although DADT is a bad law, it could have been used as a way out if the draft is reinstated. The state know this and that is the real reason they are ending it. They do not care about human rights. Never have, never will.

bcbm
13th October 2010, 05:09
Bash back is so wrong on this. Stopping DADT is a victory for the left. It's not about the war, it's about the ideology of homophobia that is perpetuated by this on going policy and all policies that make people second class.

http://socialistworker.org/2010/06/02/steppingstone-toward-equality
http://socialistworker.org/2010/09/20/too-high-a-price

and by allowing gays to fight and die for their country and be fully integrated into capital's domination, homophobia is somehow challenged? allowing more people to defend racism and imperialism with their lives is a victory for the left? denying people who may join and become discouraged one possible avenue out of militarism is a positive thing?


DADT is state sponsored discrimination.

so what? the state is our enemy, we don't want its acceptance we want it to no longer have control over our lives.

Fulanito de Tal
13th October 2010, 20:22
and by allowing gays to fight and die for their country and be fully integrated into capital's domination, homophobia is somehow challenged? allowing more people to defend racism and imperialism with their lives is a victory for the left? denying people who may join and become discouraged one possible avenue out of militarism is a positive thing?



[/B]so what? the state is our enemy, we don't want its acceptance we want it to no longer have control over our lives.

This does not have much to do with the few GLBT that may join the military now. This has more to do with the entire GLBT population and how the country perceives and reacts to it.

Yes, allowing GLBT to join the military is a positive thing. You may be enlightened and think on your own and have absolutely no biases, but the vast majority of the population relies on heuristics. People that don't read, don't think, and based their decisions on short cuts such as stereotypes would subconsciously use the state sponsored discrimination as a tool to enforce homophobia and male dominance.

Ignorant people can use the discrimination enforced by the state to define, rationalize, and defend their own discrimination of others. A person may think, "If the military hates queers, why can't I? They obviously don't meet the extremely low minimal requirements to serve in the military."

I never mentioned wanting acceptance. I only care for the acceptance of my friends and family. I don't care for anyone else's acceptance. What I want is equality for all. Discriminating based on the sexual preference is not equality.

To reiterate.
DADT defines a community, discriminates against that community, and provides an example of acceptable discrimination. Furthermore, it pushes an oppressive view of gender roles.

B0LSHEVIK
15th October 2010, 01:39
I dont know why so many leftists take to upholding and defending homosexual rights, as if they were a pillar of socialism. And they arent. Socialism calls for equality/solidarity among all Man, which includes women, regardless of sexual preferences, religion, etc etc. Therefore I think, by being a socialist, you already believe in equality among man, and there is no need to double-state this. Also, many homosexuals, if accepted by 'normal' society would be right wing, and, I doubt we could call more than half of them comrades.

Again, I can see why so many of us give gay rights so much importance. This is afterall a clash of traditionalism vs liberalism, with the latter usually confronting a reactionary herd.

*Also on edit; homosexual legality comes and goes, and mostly gone for the past couple centuries. In the past, it was quite acceptable to have male concubines and protitutes were church sanctioned. Keep this in mind.

So if gays/lesbians feel they want to serve a country. More power to them. Im straight, and I wouldnt serve any flag! They deserve the same rights we all enjoy, not because they're gay and therefore we must differentiate and label, which in turn leads us into a positive feedback cycle of labeling, namecalling, etc etc.

Klaatu
15th October 2010, 02:07
This decision is a step in the right direction. But there is still the danger that, somehow, the military will find ways to get around it. For example, some soldiers may think it is OK to "come out" now, but the storm is not over yet - it is certainly better to have Congress formally outlaw the DADT process altogether, or perhaps have a Supreme Court ruling. One federal judge's ruling does not necessarily finalize the whole mess...

Klaatu
15th October 2010, 02:12
Therefore I think, by being a socialist, you already believe in equality among man, and there is no need to double-state this.
Yes that would be a valid point, if everyone in the world were Socialist.




Also, many homosexuals, if accepted by 'normal' society would be right wing, and, I doubt we could call more than half of them comrades.

Why right wing? The way the right wingers beat up on gays, why would gays join these bigoted dirtbags? :confused:

B0LSHEVIK
15th October 2010, 03:03
Well, Klaatu, this is supposed to be a 'socialist' website, hence the name Revleft, correct? So why again are we stating the obvious? Of course we should not be against them, however, their struggle doesnt merge with ours; IMO.

And, why would they be right wingers?

Economic interests. A perfect example is the article posted above. Despite gays being beat on, they still want to join the right wing institution of the military. Why, is beyond me. But surely, those gay troops would open fire to suppress you on a single command; or heartbeat. Im just stating, choose your friends wisely.

Fulanito de Tal
15th October 2010, 05:22
Why the myopia? Socialism doesn't solve everything.

Cuba, USSR, North Korea, Laos, and Vietnam have laws harming GLBT.

Cuba
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Cuba#Cuban_socialism_and_masculinit y

According to secondary sources, Fidel Castro has made insulting comments towards homosexuality. Castro's admiring description of rural life in Cuba ("in the country, there are no homosexuals"[14]) reflected the idea of homosexuality as bourgeois decadence, and he denounced "maricones" (faggots) as "agents of imperialism".

USSR/Russia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia

Homosexuality was officially removed from the Russian list of mental illnesses in 1999 (after endorsing ICD-10).


Homosexual or bisexual Russians who wanted a position within the Communist Party, were expected to marry a person of the opposite sex, regardless of their actual sexual orientation.


After Stalin died in 1953, he was replaced by Khrushchev, who proceeded to liberalize the Stalin era laws regarding marriage, divorce, and abortion, but the anti-gay law remained.

N Korea
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_North_Korea


North Korea does not recognize same-sex marriages, civil unions or domestic partnership benefits. Most North Koreans face strong social pressure to marry a suitable person of the opposite sex, with the government rarely allowing for divorce.

Laos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Laos

Laos does not recognize same-sex marriages, nor any other form of same-sex union.

Vietnam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_rights_in_Vietnam

Marriage is defined as a union between two adults of the opposite sex. Though they are not constitutionally banned, the law does not recognize same-sex marriages, civil unions or domestic partnership benefits.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientation_and_military_service#Countries_ that_disallow_homosexuals_from_serving_in_the_mili tary

Klaatu
16th October 2010, 01:20
Well, Klaatu, this is supposed to be a 'socialist' website, hence the name Revleft, correct? So why again are we stating the obvious? Of course we should not be against them, however, their struggle doesnt merge with ours; IMO.

I don't know about you, but I am always going to fight for the underdog. If I see someone getting beat up by my sworn enemy, I am going to back up that person, in this case homosexuals. (and I am not even gay!) That is just the way I am. I am sure others on this site feel the same way about underdogs.



And, why would they be right wingers?

Economic interests. A perfect example is the article posted above. Despite gays being beat on, they still want to join the right wing institution of the military. Why, is beyond me. But surely, those gay troops would open fire to suppress you on a single command; or heartbeat. Im just stating, choose your friends wisely.

The military itself is not a "right wing" institution, in my opinion. It is the politics that are right wing. The military is their tool. BTW the politics are the imperialists, not the soldier. Many on this site disagree with me on that, but they are entitled to their opinions. If the USA suddenly turned Socialist, we would still need a military for defensive purposes. Even Communist countries have armies, don't they.

Klaatu
16th October 2010, 02:44
Listen carefully to the words to this old Bob Seger tune:

8fdQbD3afBs

Fulanito de Tal
20th October 2010, 07:13
The military is their tool.

Exactly!