reputation system ironic for a socialism forum

[Trigonometry]

is it me or anyone else find that reputation system is ironic for a socialism forum as it creates a hierachy

[Il Medico]

Your just mad cause you don't have any. :p

[bailey_187]

would neg if not in chit-chat

[Il Medico]

would neg if not in chit-chat
haha. Me too.....:laugh:

[Queercommie Girl]

is it me or anyone else find that reputation system is ironic for a socialism forum as it creates a hierachy

Actually, socialism only implies economic equality, not equality in every sphere.

In an economically egalitarian society, some people would still get more respect than others, because e.g. they've contributed more to society.

[fa2991]

Not our fault you have a whopping 1 reputation point. :lol:

[Widerstand]

I'm perplexed, are you saying in socialism everyone will like and be liked equally?

[Jimmie Higgins]

is it me or anyone else find that reputation system is ironic for a socialism forum as it creates a hierachy I guess if it gave users any power. Seriously, I use the "thanks" like clapping at a meeting or something - someone makes a good point and I want to show that I like what they said or thought it was funny without creating a new post. But, the rep count for each member isn't that important to me*.


I'm perplexed, are you saying in socialism everyone will like and be liked equally?Why can't I rep this!?


*except for my own so I can boost my ego:lol:

[Widerstand]

I guess if it gave users any power. Seriously, I use the "thanks" like clapping at a meeting or something - someone makes a good point and I want to show that I like what they said or thought it was funny without creating a new post. But, the rep count for each member isn't that important to me*.

Indeed. I usually don't care for rep much. I give thanks out however the fuck I want. I've never neg rep'd anyone so far, and I don't see why I would. It's just stupid, vengeance-satisfying punishment crap. Luckily I've never been neg rep'd either (I guess Leninists don't care about being flamed :D ). I also don't care whether or not users have positive rep or not. It doesn't make their posts any more or less agreeable/informative/funny.



Why can't I rep this!?

Cos, Jim, dis be chit chat.

Chitchat, dis be Jim.

Say hello to each other.

[Il Medico]

Cos, Jim, dis be chit chat.

Chitchat, dis be Jim.

Say hello to each other.
I want to rep you so bad for this. You should have ended it with and s though. Like this:


Cos, Jims, dis be chit chats.

Chitchats, dis be Jims.

Say hello to each other.

[Quail]

We have rep so that we can feel good about our e-penises. It doesn't create a heirarchy because it's not like having more rep makes you more able to do stuff. You're taking it too seriously...

[EvilRedGuy]

Actually, socialism only implies economic equality, not equality in every sphere.

In an economically egalitarian society, some people would still get more respect than others, because e.g. they've contributed more to society.

Bullshit, having more respect than others creates a hierarchy where the one whith most respect becomes an upper class over others whith lower respect. Besides, i want my respect on this forum. :(

[gorillafuck]

It's not a hierarchy because of the rep system, it's a hierarchy because I run this forum with an iron fist.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Lenin, Marx, and Guevara had some pretty huge rep bars.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

SOCIAL CAPITAL.

See also: Politics is easiest at arms length.

[Pirate Utopian]

Bullshit, having more respect than others creates a hierarchy where the one whith most respect becomes an upper class over others whith lower respect. Besides, i want my respect on this forum. :(
I don't think I should have to share my hardearned rep with lazy people like EvilRedGuy.

[NonServiam]

Actually, socialism only implies economic equality, not equality in every sphere.

In an economically egalitarian society, some people would still get more respect than others, because e.g. they've contributed more to society.

I believe you speak of Equity as opposed to Equality.

More aptly the reputation system is a form of Meritocracy, which is inherently hierarchical.
The concept of Social Capital also applies.
One could say that Merit and Social Capital is a very basic form of Plutarchy, which is very much the corrosive and divisive driving force of cliques and scenes worldwide.

With that said, Fuck Merit, Fuck Social Capital.
One persons word is as valuable as any other.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

With that said, Fuck Merit, Fuck Social Capital.
One persons word is as valuable as any other.

That's bollocks, and you would realise that if you gave it a moment's thought. In the manner of boots, who do you defer to, the bootmaker or some idiot who thinks shit makes good shoe polish?

[Queercommie Girl]

I believe you speak of Equity as opposed to Equality.

More aptly the reputation system is a form of Meritocracy, which is inherently hierarchical.
The concept of Social Capital also applies.
One could say that Merit and Social Capital is a very basic form of Plutarchy, which is very much the corrosive and divisive driving force of cliques and scenes worldwide.

With that said, Fuck Merit, Fuck Social Capital.
One persons word is as valuable as any other.

I'm not an anarchist, and I don't believe in utopian absolute egalitarianism in every sphere. Marxism is about economic and political equality. "Social capital" is not really a strict Marxist term.

[Queercommie Girl]

One persons word is as valuable as any other.

Would the words of a racist/sexist/homophobe/transphobe have as much value as the words of someone who is against discrimination?

Would the words of an apologist for feudal/capitalist restoration have as much value as the words of a socialist vanguardist?

Would the words of someone who knows nothing about Marxism have as much value as the words of Marx himself?

[Q]

Why can't I rep this!?


I want to rep you so bad for this.

And you can, via the scales, as usual. You can't Thank in Chit-Chat.

[maskerade]

if only we could apply a rep system to the real world.

i would be rewarded for saying stupid one liners. it would be great.

[Q]

if only we could apply a rep system to the real world.

i would be rewarded for saying stupid one liners. it would be great.

I would negrep the hell out of half my family.

[Pirate Utopian]

And you can, via the scales, as usual. You can't Thank in Chit-Chat.
No you can't.

[Lyev]

Down with hierarchy!!

[L.A.P.]

I don't think I should have to share my hardearned rep with lazy people like EvilRedGuy.
Spoken like a true reactionary.:lol:

[Widerstand]

I believe you speak of Equity as opposed to Equality.

More aptly the reputation system is a form of Meritocracy, which is inherently hierarchical.
The concept of Social Capital also applies.
One could say that Merit and Social Capital is a very basic form of Plutarchy, which is very much the corrosive and divisive driving force of cliques and scenes worldwide.

With that said, Fuck Merit, Fuck Social Capital.
One persons word is as valuable as any other.

I'm an anarchist.

You are talking bullocks.

There is such a thing as legitimate authority. I wonder how people can fail to realize this.

[ZeroNowhere]

Social capital is a bourgeois notion and I hope you people all feel guilty about your bourgeoisdom.

[gorillafuck]

That's bollocks, and you would realise that if you gave it a moment's thought. In the manner of boots, who do you defer to, the bootmaker or some idiot who thinks shit makes good shoe polish?
I'd flip a coin, so as to give them both the most equal chance.:lol:

[Incendiarism]

yes but the rep system is a charitable institution

[Q]

yes but the rep system is a charitable institution

And there are tax deductions.

[NonServiam]

Yes I agree that there is such a thing as legitimate authority. Such as one obtains from experience.

What I should have said is, while the words of ALL people have equal value, some possess more validity and relevance. Determining which is which is simply determined through the common sense of those involved.

But when a culture is created around the notion of merit, Plutachy is often the result.
Because as Ive observed in even small groups, merit is determined by ones access to the symbols or objects that the culture deems as valuable. In our society this access often means ones class status (better clothes, car, house etc.). Even in punk culture it is determined by "punk-points" who you know, if you are in a band etc etc.

Invariably this creates a "culture of exclusion" where there are those who possess merit (who will undoubtedly fight to preserve it) and those who don't.

[Incendiarism]

the real organ of power was the commie club and that was abolished. rep doesn't even do anything and most of us clearly recognize the fact that most posters dole it out for seemingly no reason.

[Os Cangaceiros]

No reason for me to care about rep anymore, as my e-peen has grown to full length.

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

lol u just mad cause you aint got no rep

[gorillafuck]

No reason for me to care about rep anymore, as my e-peen has grown to full length.
Yours is one green box longer than mine!

And to think that I thought I was full length. What a fool I was.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

What I should have said is, while the words of ALL people have equal value, some possess more validity and relevance. Determining which is which is simply determined through the common sense of those involved.

But when a culture is created around the notion of merit, Plutachy is often the result.
Because as Ive observed in even small groups, merit is determined by ones access to the symbols or objects that the culture deems as valuable. In our society this access often means ones class status (better clothes, car, house etc.). Even in punk culture it is determined by "punk-points" who you know, if you are in a band etc etc.

Invariably this creates a "culture of exclusion" where there are those who possess merit (who will undoubtedly fight to preserve it) and those who don't.

What you describe has nothing to do with merit. Any idiot born to the right parents can have access to the material goodies that a society considers valuable - you seem to be confused as to what merit actually means.

One's merit is based on one's abilities and qualities, both of which can be acquired through education and/or training to a large degree.

If people have the inherent abilities but not the education or training needed to effectively channel them, then the system in place falls short of a meritocracy, because people aren't getting the opportunities to prove themselves that they deserve.

[EvilRedGuy]

I don't think I should have to share my hardearned rep with lazy people like EvilRedGuy.

Sounds like what the rich capitalists says when they are talking about money. :rolleyes:


I believe you speak of Equity as opposed to Equality.

More aptly the reputation system is a form of Meritocracy, which is inherently hierarchical.
The concept of Social Capital also applies.
One could say that Merit and Social Capital is a very basic form of Plutarchy, which is very much the corrosive and divisive driving force of cliques and scenes worldwide.

With that said, Fuck Merit, Fuck Social Capital.
One persons word is as valuable as any other.

Fucking this.

[Comrade Awesome]

Is there a more pure form of 'to each according to his contribution'?

[Ovi]

I believe you speak of Equity as opposed to Equality.

More aptly the reputation system is a form of Meritocracy, which is inherently hierarchical.

Or a way stalinoids argue: "look at my rep bar; I have obviously better politics because all other stalinoids thanked every shitty post I make, you petite bourgeois anarkiddy"

[Bilan]

god I hate you.

[Queercommie Girl]

Or a way stalinoids argue: "look at my rep bar; I have obviously better politics because all other stalinoids thanked every shitty post I make, you petite bourgeois anarkiddy"

I'm not a Stalinist. I'm a Marxist-Leninist. "Social capital" is an idealistic concept, and Marx certainly did not call for the abolishment of "social capital" in a way like how he so explicitly called for the abolishment of economic capital or the political state. Therefore "social capital" is not my concern. Some anarchist thinker may have commented on this, I don't know and I don't care since I'm not an anarchist.

The idea that everyone's comments are equally valuable can IMO open a can of worms that lead to the endorsements of all kinds of reactionary and discriminatory ideas.

Equality is not universal. Fuck those idiots who think reactionaries calling for the restoration of capitalism and feudalism and racists/sexists/homophobes/transphobes deserve as much equality socially as genuine socialists and progressives. Lenience to one's political enemies is the same as betrayal towards one's friends and allies.

[Queercommie Girl]

What you describe has nothing to do with merit. Any idiot born to the right parents can have access to the material goodies that a society considers valuable - you seem to be confused as to what merit actually means.

One's merit is based on one's abilities and qualities, both of which can be acquired through education and/or training to a large degree.

If people have the inherent abilities but not the education or training needed to effectively channel them, then the system in place falls short of a meritocracy, because people aren't getting the opportunities to prove themselves that they deserve.

People like him is one reason why I never became an anarchist, despite having some anarchist influences.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

People like him is one reason why I never became an anarchist, despite having some anarchist influences.

That's why I like to think there is a difference between being critical of authority, and rejecting it wholesale.

The first is a reasonable position to take, the second is painting with the widest brush possible without regard for circumstances.

[brigadista]

well you can see what i think

[Nuvem]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs828.snc4/68871_154528717919663_100000876085756_258770_54829 91_n.jpg

[Trigonometry]

wow I did not expect so many responses haha
Its quite interesting to see some the responses, as concerning my low reps I didn't expect anyone to point that out on a socialist forum, but it is never the less a valid point and I suppose is the reason many find the idea of socialism repulsive, it is easy to give up everything you have when you have none (in my case reps), if you wouldn't give sacrifice your reps, would you really sacrifice your hard earned savings and property?

With concern to my reps, it is no probably I just learnt to hide it, but I'm quite surprised at all the 'would negs'

[Widerstand]

wow I did not expect so many responses haha
Its quite interesting to see some the responses, as concerning my low reps I didn't expect anyone to point that out on a socialist forum, but it is never the less a valid point and I suppose is the reason many find the idea of socialism repulsive, it is easy to give up everything you have when you have none (in my case reps), if you wouldn't give sacrifice your reps, would you really sacrifice your hard earned savings and property?

"Would you sacrifice green boxes on an internet forum?" Yes.


With concern to my reps, it is no probably I just learnt to hide it, but I'm quite surprised at all the 'would negs'

Well humor certainly isn't a leftist virtue.

[Il Medico]

And you can, via the scales, as usual. You can't Thank in Chit-Chat.
You can attempt to, then it say you can't give rep to this post. You lost 14 possible rep points.

[Queercommie Girl]

wow I did not expect so many responses haha
Its quite interesting to see some the responses, as concerning my low reps I didn't expect anyone to point that out on a socialist forum, but it is never the less a valid point and I suppose is the reason many find the idea of socialism repulsive, it is easy to give up everything you have when you have none (in my case reps), if you wouldn't give sacrifice your reps, would you really sacrifice your hard earned savings and property?


Difference being, "social capital" (in this context) does not give people direct command of political and economic power, economic capital does.

While small business people work hard to earn what they have, and at their level "each according to his/her capital" is indeed relatively close to "each according to his/her labour", this certainly isn't the case for big capitalists. Big capitalists earn a very disproportionately high amount of economic and political resources relative to their actual labour, no matter how you calculate it. They get what they have not by work but through their control and ownership of the means of production. In a socialist society most of the means of production are publicly owned rather than in the possession of a few private individuals so it's much more fair, everyone has to actually work for a living, rather than say inherit 10 million dollars from a rich dad.

The American Capitalist Revolution was originally anti-aristocratic, so was the Chinese Feudal Revolution 2500 years ago. But with capitalism and feudalism the aristocracy can never be truly abolished. The US today is ruled by the finance aristocracy who earn billions just through playing around with a few tweaks opportunistically. With socialism aristocracy can be completely abolished. No-one could unfairly compete with others in life just because of who his/her parents or backgrounds are.

So socialism is really the true meritocracy, based on "each according to his/her contribution to society", not on how devious someone is, how much can someone bully and exploit others, or how "lucky" one is. Only socialism can truly fulfill the great slogan of the Chinese Feudal Revolution against the theocratic slave-lord aristocracy: "The God of Heaven has no favourites, the only criteria is virtue".

[bailey_187]

wow I did not expect so many responses haha
Its quite interesting to see some the responses, as concerning my low reps I didn't expect anyone to point that out on a socialist forum, but it is never the less a valid point and I suppose is the reason many find the idea of socialism repulsive, it is easy to give up everything you have when you have none (in my case reps), if you wouldn't give sacrifice your reps, would you really sacrifice your hard earned savings and property?

With concern to my reps, it is no probably I just learnt to hide it, but I'm quite surprised at all the 'would negs'

The people with "hard earned savings and property" that could be threatend isnt exactly the group (or class?) Communists rely on...

[Trigonometry]

The people with "hard earned savings and property" that could be threatend isnt exactly the group (or class?) Communists rely on...

So a significant amount of proletarians? Its the proletarians that have hard earned savings, they are the ones who have accumulated worked 20 years to pay off mortgage for that apartment, not the bourgeosie.

@Iseul

That's all well and all but isn't really what I'm getting at, you think I am talking about the bourgeosie, I am not. I understand the very basic concept that the bourgeosie do not work but rely on their capital and proletarian labour to generate their income.

When I said hard earned savings, I meant the proletarians, 50 year old Eric who's worked his ass off for 30 years to the local ford factory to buy his suburban properity, and send his 2 sons to the local private school, chances are he doesn't vote labour either. Is he a part of the bourgeosie?
Of course not, he is the most classic victim of capitalist system, but he would not support socialism for a very practical reason; what about his hard earned savings?
It is not only Eric, but many many others who form the 'middle class' or to some extent the upper lower class that will oppose socialism. Although you might argue that this is lack consciousness as all the proletarians in the long term have the same interests, the Marxist theoretical argument to it is beside the point, it is the fact that we need to recognise that this is a very practical reason of opposition socialism by every day people.
It is clearly demonstrated in pointing at the rep system, in which everyone 'works' for reps by posting valuable content, 1000 rep socialists are not eagerly willing to give away green blocks and 'social capital' on a small forum like a 10 rep socialist, how can you expect a middle class proletarian to give up his real savings of numerous years to give up his accumulated wealth like a penniless homeless (in this case me a 15 rep poster) and that is all that I am saying, I am not attempting to use it as anything more than an empathetic demonstration of the woes of those with hard earned savings.
The difference between economic theory and politics is that politics become very real for everyone in society.

Concerning your assertion that social capital does not lead to political and economic power like economic capital. I would like to say you have completely ignored the very direct connection between social capital and economic capital.
Irony should you use China as an example, my grand father a very much disillusioned socialist was in the CCP and PLA, and although he had no direct power, he had many connections through his PLA days and come the time when people were given apartments, there were great shortages and so it took years on a waiting list to be allocated your apartment, however my family ended up with 3 apartments very quickly because of the social connections my grand father had, all 3 of which ended up in my families ownership (well long term rental as like all property in PRC) and which during the real estate boom in recent years chanced out greatly,
Another point is, during the 70s when most people in China were living the most spartan of lifestyles, our family home was decorated with Romanian furniture (the 'hip' back then), owned our own Czech car and 1 of the only 2 families in the entire block to have a television.
Although of these are capital, they are examples of economic benefits through social capital that led to very real money. However it shows that even small amounts of social capital can lead to very real benefits.

Less personal examples are Soviet Union, and the PLA.
The PLA used to in China earn many investments as a part of self sufficiency. However later such was abolished, however the investments were still kept by former PLA officers, how did this come about? Those men used their social capital to get hold of economic capital.
Soviet Union, after the industries were privatised, it was those with connections (social capital) that took a great amount in the vital industries (economic capital)
Nevermind other examples, widespread use of connections to get into power positions is a very common thing, some of the earliest forms finance are built on social capital (e.g. Hawala)

To neglect and undervalue the influence and significance of social capital in forming a bourgeois class would be regrettable

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Would the words of someone who knows nothing about Marxism have as much value as the words of Marx himself?

Holy fucking necrophilia.
If anything, this is indicative of the way social capital works.
White man with academic cache FTW.

[Ovi]

People like him is one reason why I never became an anarchist, despite having some anarchist influences.
So you stopped believing that there will always be social classes if there's a state and completely changed your mind because some of your opinions on irrelevant issues were different than those of other anarchists?

[EvilRedGuy]

So you stopped believing that there will always be social classes if there's a state and completely changed your mind because some of your opinions on irrelevant issues were different than those of other anarchists?


Hahaha yeah, this shows of the Marxist-Leninist intelligence. :rolleyes:

[Queercommie Girl]

So you stopped believing that there will always be social classes if there's a state and completely changed your mind because some of your opinions on irrelevant issues were different than those of other anarchists?


I never was an anarchist. I didn't say I was an anarchist and then I changed my mind, I said I've been influenced by anarchism in some ways, but I've been influenced by Trotskyism and Maoism much more.

And do tell me, how the fuck is racism/sexism/homophobia/transphobia not relevant for any genuine socialist?

If "everyone's words are fundamentally equal", does this mean a racist deserves as much "social capital" as an anti-racist?

[Queercommie Girl]

Hahaha yeah, this shows of the Marxist-Leninist intelligence. :rolleyes:

Actually, it shows how dim your anarchist intelligence is since I never was an anarchist, and indeed many anarchists, like NoXion and UN, would agree with me on the topic of "social capital" here.

[Saorsa]

Lol at all of you talking about your e-penises when mine is clearly bigger than all of you put together.

I have the most rep of anyone in this thread. Bow before me