Hello All

[Le Corsaire Rouge]

Hi comrades,

After seeing The Guardian here in the UK publish an article by its political editor entitled "The left should recognise that equality is undesirable", I decided that I finally couldn't continue to read it. I did a Google search to find a good leftish but comprehensive news site to read, and while there I saw a link to this, so ... here I am. Hi!

(And if anyone could help me with that original search query, pipe up...)

[Widerstand]

Welcome :)

As to your original query, this forum, especially the stickied threads, may come in handy: http://www.revleft.com/vb/websites-f19/index.html

[Q]

Welcome :)

What are your political ideas? If any?

[Veg_Athei_Socialist]

Welcome to Revleft:)!

[¿Que?]

Hi.

[Le Corsaire Rouge]

What are your political ideas? If any?
I think of myself as a socialist and a communist. I believe that an insurrectionary revolution will be necessary for the overthrow of capitalism. I don't think that the material preconditions for a fully socialist society will be fully realised within even the next hundred years.

I am currently a member of Britain's Socialist Workers Party. I don't necessarily agree with 100% of their agenda, but I believe in the necessity of a prominent, active, united socialist party.

My current area of greatest personal interest is in the possibility of establishing a parallel society independent of mainstream bourgeois society. I think about things like co-operatives, freecycling and independent social housing a lot, and also how socialists could provide useful services that are currently entrenched in bourgeois society - the kind of thing that is sometimes known as "the professions".

[Red Future]

Welcome :)!

[revolution inaction]

its not what you asked for but you may find the news section of libcom (http://libcom.org/) interesting, although its probably pretty far from you poletics being a communist web site and you in hte swp

[Q]

its not what you asked for but you may find the news section of libcom (http://libcom.org/) interesting, although its probably pretty far from you poletics being a communist web site and you in hte swp

The SWP are communists, they just shy away from actually saying that ;)

To be honest Le Corsaire Rouge's stances differ quite a bit from your average SWP view and as the SWP is an organisation in which different views are not very much appreciated, I don't think he'll be there in the long term.



I think of myself as a socialist and a communist. I believe that an insurrectionary revolution will be necessary for the overthrow of capitalism. I don't think that the material preconditions for a fully socialist society will be fully realised within even the next hundred years.
Regarding that last sentence: Why do you think that? Objectively capitalism already produces enough food to feed everyone on the planet and the crisis points out to the very fact of capitalist overproduction. Economically I'd argue that communism is very easily attainable, especially in the west. Culturally and socially it might be a different story though.


I am currently a member of Britain's Socialist Workers Party. I don't necessarily agree with 100% of their agenda, but I believe in the necessity of a prominent, active, united socialist party.

My current area of greatest personal interest is in the possibility of establishing a parallel society independent of mainstream bourgeois society. I think about things like co-operatives, freecycling and independent social housing a lot, and also how socialists could provide useful services that are currently entrenched in bourgeois society - the kind of thing that is sometimes known as "the professions".
Emphasis added. The first point is indeed a shared goal and desire between many rank and file activists. I'd like to note that the CPGB (http://cpgb.org.uk/) is one of the very few that actually has this goal, the unification of the left into a real united communist party in which differences of opinion exist, as an explicit part of its strategy.

As for the second point, the parallel society, I fully agree and some other users, notably Die Neue Zeit, have worked extensively on such ideas and proposals. I suggest you have a look in the Theory section for more info.

[Le Corsaire Rouge]

its not what you asked for but you may find the news section of libcom interesting, although its probably pretty far from you poletics being a communist web site and you in hte swp
You cheeky thing ;) Thanks though, I'll take a look.


The SWP are communists, they just shy away from actually saying that ;)
I think there are understandable historical reasons relating both to the failure and despotism of the Soviet Union and to the popular misconception of "communism" [drawled in a Deep South accent] that make the SWP's approach of focussing its identity on the specific activities in the united fronts in which it's involved a fair enough position. I don't know any average rank and file SWP member who would object in the slightest to being called a communist, and in fact I think they'd be a little pissed off if you said that they weren't. Honestly though, I don't care an awful lot what people call themselves: it's actions that count. I saw a lot of Socialist Workers on the streets taking real action to try to help workers and change the world in the here and now, while other socialist parties just handed out earnest pamphlets, and that was the main reason why I joined the party: the point is to change the world, after all.


To be honest Le Corsaire Rouge's stances differ quite a bit from your average SWP view and as the SWP is an organisation in which different views are not very much appreciated, I don't think he'll be there in the long term.
Certainly they don't like people who make a nuisance of themselves, or who try to be grossly heterodox in a prominent organisational position, but I can't think of any successful organisation that does indulge that sort of thing. During activism I muck in like anyone else. When we chat in the pub afterwards there's always a range of views, and I've never felt that anyone was getting bullied for disagreeing with a particular party policy. Still, I'm not saying I'd never join another socialist / communist party if I felt it had a wider base and was more active.



I think of myself as a socialist and a communist. I believe that an insurrectionary revolution will be necessary for the overthrow of capitalism. I don't think that the material preconditions for a fully socialist society will be fully realised within even the next hundred years.Regarding that last sentence: Why do you think that? Objectively capitalism already produces enough food to feed everyone on the planet and the crisis points out to the very fact of capitalist overproduction. Economically I'd argue that communism is very easily attainable, especially in the west. Culturally and socially it might be a different story though.
Firstly, there's a big difference between being able to provide just enough to stop the current world population from starving to death on the one hand and waiting until "the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly" on the other. I am not a primitivist, and I don't want everyone to go "back to the land". We need to be producing enough, efficiently enough, that we can provide education, healthcare, access to technology and other social goods to the world, not just subsistence levels of food.
Secondly, I'm a materialist. I don't think that materialism is just economics, with everything else inhabiting an idealist sphere beyond that. I'm including social trends and organisations in the scope of "material preconditions". By the time that the bourgeois could successfully overthrow feudalism wholesale in even the dominant nations, they already had an effective capitalist economy functioning within the feudal state, complete with preconditional organisations and social mores. We don't yet have a functioning communist economy that is straining at the leash of bourgeois power relations. That's going to take time and effort and organisation to set up.



I am currently a member of Britain's Socialist Workers Party. I don't necessarily agree with 100% of their agenda, but I believe in the necessity of a prominent, active, united socialist party.Emphasis added. The first point is indeed a shared goal and desire between many rank and file activists. I'd like to note that the CPGB is one of the very few that actually has this goal, the unification of the left into a real united communist party in which differences of opinion exist, as an explicit part of its strategy.
Yes, I think that most socialists / communists would like a united party. I think that the current SWP approach of helping to build "united fronts" is a good practical way of moving towards this. Again, it's a sign of what I like about the party: rather than indulging in circular debates about exactly what position should be taken on an issue, they do something practical to get people working for change. Yes, they cocked up badly with Respect, but I still think that the motive - to expand the scope of the socialist debate and work with people who had overlapping interests - was a good one.
My perception of the CPGB is that it is pretty dead in terms of direct action, that it's populated only by a rapidly ageing rump, that it's driven by the existence of Weekly Worker rather than the other way around, and that it never really shook off Stalinism. Please correct me if you think I'm wrong or being grossly unfair. (I'm guessing you're a member, actually.)



My current area of greatest personal interest is in the possibility of establishing a parallel society independent of mainstream bourgeois society. I think about things like co-operatives, freecycling and independent social housing a lot, and also how socialists could provide useful services that are currently entrenched in bourgeois society - the kind of thing that is sometimes known as "the professions".As for the second point, the parallel society, I fully agree and some other users, notably Die Neue Zeit, have worked extensively on such ideas and proposals. I suggest you have a look in the Theory section for more info.
Thanks for this comrade (and for all your other comments above). I'll have a dig around the Theory section if that's where this stuff is. Has anyone actually started to put their ideas on this into practice yet?

[Q]

Certainly they don't like people who make a nuisance of themselves, or who try to be grossly heterodox in a prominent organisational position, but I can't think of any successful organisation that does indulge that sort of thing. During activism I muck in like anyone else. When we chat in the pub afterwards there's always a range of views, and I've never felt that anyone was getting bullied for disagreeing with a particular party policy. Still, I'm not saying I'd never join another socialist / communist party if I felt it had a wider base and was more active.
Fair enough indeed. If you have the room to develop your views within the SWP and share them with comrades, please do so :)


Firstly, there's a big difference between being able to provide just enough to stop the current world population from starving to death on the one hand and waiting until "the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly" on the other. I am not a primitivist, and I don't want everyone to go "back to the land". We need to be producing enough, efficiently enough, that we can provide education, healthcare, access to technology and other social goods to the world, not just subsistence levels of food.
Yeah, I wasn't trying to make the impression that communism is simply "capitalism remixed" so to speak. I agree that we need a significantly higher living standard across the globe. I was merely pointing out that capitalism's fundamental problem is exactly that it produces too much and stops developing productive relations at that point. After the working class seizes power, we'd take that hurdle and leap forward production with a rational plan, based on human need. I don't think this effort "will be fully realised within even the next hundred years", I think more along the lines of a few decades.


Secondly, I'm a materialist. I don't think that materialism is just economics, with everything else inhabiting an idealist sphere beyond that. I'm including social trends and organisations in the scope of "material preconditions". By the time that the bourgeois could successfully overthrow feudalism wholesale in even the dominant nations, they already had an effective capitalist economy functioning within the feudal state, complete with preconditional organisations and social mores. We don't yet have a functioning communist economy that is straining at the leash of bourgeois power relations. That's going to take time and effort and organisation to set up.
I agree that communism is more then simply a higher productive grade. It involves a fundamentally different social relationship, all the way down to the "nucleus family" (the building block of capitalist society).

I disagree however that we first need to build a communist economy before taking political power. The socialist transformation of society is different from previous transformations in that our cause is global and for all of humanity (as opposed to yet another elite). As long as we stay within the capitalist framework our communistic efforts can only exist in an oppositional character towards the capitalist hegemony. Even when we take over power, as aclass of course, we directly inherit capitalist society. We need a transitionary phase to grow beyond this (incidentally, this is what I understand as "socialism").


My perception of the CPGB is that it is pretty dead in terms of direct action, that it's populated only by a rapidly ageing rump, that it's driven by the existence of Weekly Worker rather than the other way around, and that it never really shook off Stalinism. Please correct me if you think I'm wrong or being grossly unfair. (I'm guessing you're a member, actually.)
The CPGB isn't dead, it's small. We're talking about dozens of members, not hundreds or thousands. The current CPGB emerged when the old CPGB (the stalinist one) dissolved back in 1991. This CPGB existed as a faction inside that party since 1981, trying to fight both the "anti-revisionists" and the eurocommunists. They didn't accept that the eurocommies simply liquidated their party and took the name. That said, they don't see themselves as the CPGB, more as a campaign of re-establishing it.

From my understanding it actually has quite a few younger members, besides the now 50+-aged people that started the faction back in 1981 ;)

Their publication of the Weekly Worker is indeed important to them and I believe that in terms of readership it can compare to Socialist Worker, The Socialist and The Morning Star, which is quite impressive given the size of their group. I think, fundamentally, the reason for this, is that they threat their readership as thinking beings that can actually participate in the debates.

As for its "stalinism", I do think they completely left that behind. They focus on, what they call, "extreme democracy" and don't follow a stagist line (which is typically stalinist), etc. Also, their focus on bringing together the left isn't typically stalinist ;) I really suggest you read about them (http://cpgb.org.uk/) some time. Here's a video where Jack Conrad, one of the founding members, talks about their history (http://vimeo.com/6185943).

And no, I'm not a member. I'm actually in the Dutch section of the CWI (the SPEW in the UK) :)


Thanks for this comrade (and for all your other comments above). I'll have a dig around the Theory section if that's where this stuff is. Has anyone actually started to put their ideas on this into practice yet?
So far, not really. To have a real parallel society, you need to develop this in tandem with a party-movement. In this respect I see the task of developing a parallel society as a principal task of a united communist party. For now we can however develop "proofs of concept" of course and set up a worker run food bank or cycling club for example.